With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?

In article ,
ss wrote:
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

with any luck your RCD (trip) will have operated.

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 28/12/2012 17:09, ss wrote:
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?

Depends on if you have RCDs or not. Without them, the presence of water
alone in unlikely to pass enough current to trip a circuit breaker or fuse.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Dec 28, 5:09*pm, ss wrote:
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?

Walking in water or even wet floors inside your house is a bad idea
until you are sure the electricity is turned off.

It will likely trip out the RCD (if there is one) but it might not.
The installation will need to be tested out before you switch back on
if water gets in anywhere.
If you think the house is about to flood you should turn it off
beforehand.

In article
,
harry wrote:
On Dec 28, 5:09 pm, ss wrote:
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?

Walking in water or even wet floors inside your house is a bad idea
until you are sure the electricity is turned off.

It will likely trip out the RCD (if there is one) but it might not.
The installation will need to be tested out before you switch back on
if water gets in anywhere.
If you think the house is about to flood you should turn it off
beforehand.

not necessarily. My intake (meter & CU) is about 4ft above ground and all
the wiring goes upwards. I'd make sure the ground floor power was switched
off, but upstairs and the lights shouldn't have a problem unless the flood
water was over 4ft deep. Which is unliley here,

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

ss wrote on 28/12/2012 :
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if you
came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering the ground
floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off and
water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding electrical
safety?

With the electrics completely submerged there is actually less risk of
anything blowing. The risk of issues starts as things start to dry out.
Voltage gradients through the water mean that the risk to you becomes
greater, the nearer you get to live parts of the installation.

An RCD would trip the supply and likely avoid any risks.

A few years ago I attended a site where all of the electrics were in a
basement at a commercial premises. The basement had been flooded by
water ingress due to burst pipes in the pavement and the main panel was
some 6 feet below water. It took three days to pump out and I nursed
the site along for another two weeks, until a contractor could replace
everything. Several MCB's exploded in that time, whilst they were
drying out.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"ss" wrote in message
...
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering the
ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?


Why would anybody care about flooding in the south?

Mr Pounder wrote:


"ss" wrote in message
...
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?


Why would anybody care about flooding in the south?

http://www.britishdams.org/images/rother_flood.jpg

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:08:07 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

ss wrote on 28/12/2012 :
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if you
came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering the ground
floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off and
water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding electrical
safety?

With the electrics completely submerged there is actually less risk of
anything blowing. The risk of issues starts as things start to dry out.
Voltage gradients through the water mean that the risk to you becomes
greater, the nearer you get to live parts of the installation.

So take very short steps on your wet floor... :-)

--
Frank Erskine

ss wrote

With all the flooding down south of late what would be
the situation if you came down in the morning and you
have say a foot of water covering the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is
likely to be covering plug sockets on the wall,

Yep, one of mine that can get water from the roof
gutter overflowing in the heaviest rain down the
concrete block hole which has a plug socket one
block up from the floor can blow that fuse at times.

or would it still be live?

Normally not, particularly with RCDs.

Its possible tho, very clean water doesn't actually
conduct as well as you might expect. Clean in the
sense of not much salt in it.

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof
is blown off and water dripping down through the floors
what would one do regarding electrical safety?

I wouldn't do anything special myself, you arent
likely to get much into the plug sockets in that case.

Our electrical authoritys do mostly turn the power
off when a decent flood is expected, but not always.

Can be a real problem with the fridges
and freezers and their contents.

On Dec 28, 5:09*pm, ss wrote:
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?

SWMBOs grandparents came down (3 story "town house") and found a
fridge floating in 3ft of water bit still operating perfectly.

MBQ

On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:11:54 +0000, Mr Pounder wrote:

Why would anybody care about flooding in the south?

Because if the south becomes ocean then the bottom half of the north will
become the new south? :-)

On 29/12/12 02:11, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:11:54 +0000, Mr Pounder wrote:

Why would anybody care about flooding in the south?

Because if the south becomes ocean then the bottom half of the north will
become the new south? :-)

And we cant have THAT.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

Well the issue really is difficult as the main feed would be underwater so
any amount of tripping devices would be rather pointless.

If you were far enough away from the feed though it would probably be OK.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"ss" wrote in message
...
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering the
ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?

None of this though looks at the real issue. the feed straight off the mains
will be under water and thus I don't think most connections would stand
submersion.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"harry" wrote in message
...
On Dec 28, 5:09 pm, ss wrote:
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?

Walking in water or even wet floors inside your house is a bad idea
until you are sure the electricity is turned off.

It will likely trip out the RCD (if there is one) but it might not.
The installation will need to be tested out before you switch back on
if water gets in anywhere.
If you think the house is about to flood you should turn it off
beforehand.

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
None of this though looks at the real issue. the feed straight off the
mains will be under water and thus I don't think most connections would
stand submersion.

my feed comes out of the cable 4ft above ground level, so the flooding
would need to be of Noah's Ark proportions to get that under water. But
then it was installed in the 1920s when they probably worried about such
things.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

John Rumm brought next idea :
On 28/12/2012 17:09, ss wrote:
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?

Depends on if you have RCDs or not. Without them, the presence of water alone
in unlikely to pass enough current to trip a circuit breaker or fuse.

Pure H2O is not a particularly good conductor, but most flood water
will contain salts. Complete immersion will rapidly cool any localised
heating due to conduction, but as the water level falls, the current
will begin to track along the insulation causing localised burning.
Once that process begins, the insulation would be rapidly carbonised
providing a highly conductive path, sufficient to pop fuse and MCB's.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 29/12/2012 09:26, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well the issue really is difficult as the main feed would be underwater so
any amount of tripping devices would be rather pointless.

If you were far enough away from the feed though it would probably be OK.
Brian


the reason I posted this was I find it quite surprising that with all
the flooding of late there has been no electrocutions.

ss wrote:

On 29/12/2012 09:26, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well the issue really is difficult as the main feed would be underwater so
any amount of tripping devices would be rather pointless.

If you were far enough away from the feed though it would probably be OK.
Brian


the reason I posted this was I find it quite surprising that with all
the flooding of late there has been no electrocutions.

Sit in a full bath, put a line and neutral live cable into the bath with
you.
You are most unlikely to be electrocuted, or even shocked.
However, the water will heat up.
There are industrial water heaters that still use ths principle.

If, however, you go and grab hold of the line cable, then the current
will flow through you, and you will get a shock, but probably not
electrocuted, as the fault current will take out the circuit protection.

So, in the real world, water will enter the socket outlet, the current
will flow between line and neutral, and possibly take out the CB/fuse,
or it could be gently heating up the water, or, if the path is easier
between line and earth, it will take out the RCD, or, if no RCD, will
take out the fuse/cb, or possibly go on heating the water.

The only danger to a person is if they touch the line terminal and a
good earth point at the same time.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On 29/12/12 13:19, ss wrote:
On 29/12/2012 09:26, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well the issue really is difficult as the main feed would be
underwater so
any amount of tripping devices would be rather pointless.

If you were far enough away from the feed though it would probably be OK.
Brian


the reason I posted this was I find it quite surprising that with all
the flooding of late there has been no electrocutions.
RCDS work.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 29/12/2012 11:06, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
John Rumm brought next idea :
On 28/12/2012 17:09, ss wrote:
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?

Depends on if you have RCDs or not. Without them, the presence of
water alone in unlikely to pass enough current to trip a circuit
breaker or fuse.

Pure H2O is not a particularly good conductor, but most flood water will
contain salts. Complete immersion will rapidly cool any localised
heating due to conduction, but as the water level falls, the current
will begin to track along the insulation causing localised burning. Once
that process begins, the insulation would be rapidly carbonised
providing a highly conductive path, sufficient to pop fuse and MCB's.

Have you a reference for that last bit? Intuitively it sounds doubtful
to me. I would be surprised if you got enough current flow tracking damp
insulation etc to cause any significant heating. More to the point,
should something wet (but not immersed) get hot, it will tend to dry out.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm formulated the question :
Pure H2O is not a particularly good conductor, but most flood water will
contain salts. Complete immersion will rapidly cool any localised
heating due to conduction, but as the water level falls, the current
will begin to track along the insulation causing localised burning. Once
that process begins, the insulation would be rapidly carbonised
providing a highly conductive path, sufficient to pop fuse and MCB's.

Have you a reference for that last bit? Intuitively it sounds doubtful to me.
I would be surprised if you got enough current flow tracking damp insulation
etc to cause any significant heating. More to the point, should something wet
(but not immersed) get hot, it will tend to dry out.

No reference, I have just witnessed it numerous times.



--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

A.Lee formulated the question :
Sit in a full bath, put a line and neutral live cable into the bath with
you.
You are most unlikely to be electrocuted, or even shocked.
However, the water will heat up.
There are industrial water heaters that still use ths principle.

If, however, you go and grab hold of the line cable, then the current
will flow through you, and you will get a shock, but probably not
electrocuted, as the fault current will take out the circuit protection.

So, in the real world, water will enter the socket outlet, the current
will flow between line and neutral, and possibly take out the CB/fuse,
or it could be gently heating up the water, or, if the path is easier
between line and earth, it will take out the RCD, or, if no RCD, will
take out the fuse/cb, or possibly go on heating the water.

The only danger to a person is if they touch the line terminal and a
good earth point at the same time.

I agree - all due to voltage gradient. Apart that is of the liklehood
of the fuse or MCB blowing - water just does not have the conductivity
needed to pass the current.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

ss wrote:
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering
the ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?
If you had a strong enough supply you may be able to make tea after the
water had boiled.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 02:11:21 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:11:54 +0000, Mr Pounder wrote:

Why would anybody care about flooding in the south?

Because if the south becomes ocean then the bottom half of the north will
become the new south? :-)

Ah, the delightful charms of Northampton-Sur-Mer.

On 28/12/2012 20:11, Mr Pounder wrote:
"ss" wrote in message
...
With all the flooding down south of late what would be the situation if
you came down in the morning and you have say a foot of water covering the
ground floor.

Would the electricity have blown as water is likely to be covering plug
sockets on the wall, or would it still be live?

I suppose in a similar way if there is a gale and the roof is blown off
and water dripping down through the floors what would one do regarding
electrical safety?


Why would anybody care about flooding in the south?


Have a heart Mr P. Real suffering is involved. The asparagus crop may
fail, deliveries of scented toilet wipes and decent chardonnay can't get
through.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk