That did not go quite as well as my first set of windows.

The beading IMHO is a *very* tight fit[1] and takes some pretty sharp blows
with a nylon faced mallet to click in.

Mechanically, glazing went well - panes are square relative to seals,
casements close nicely.

The only thing to spoil my day is a few of the mallet blows left some
visible marks on the rosewood-foil faced trim.

The marks are silvery under bright light (led torch) and seem to disappear
when rubbed with a wet finger.

Any idea how to get rid of these? Silicone polish, heat from a hairdryer??





I tried the rubber end of the mallet first, but could not get a sharp enough
blow to click it in.




[1] To answer a previous question, which was "how to bead when your beads
all have one end square cut" - the answer is:

Do the bottom (or top) first as you prefer.

Do the top (or bottom) next.

From the remaining pieces, insert square cut end at an angle and push/wiggle
it down behind its neighbour. Then as someone suggested, start at the other
end and it will (mostly) sort itself out.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

On 06/12/2012 16:10, Tim Watts wrote:
That did not go quite as well as my first set of windows.

The beading IMHO is a *very* tight fit[1] and takes some pretty sharp blows
with a nylon faced mallet to click in.

Mechanically, glazing went well - panes are square relative to seals,
casements close nicely.

The only thing to spoil my day is a few of the mallet blows left some
visible marks on the rosewood-foil faced trim.

The marks are silvery under bright light (led torch) and seem to disappear
when rubbed with a wet finger.

Any idea how to get rid of these? Silicone polish, heat from a hairdryer??

Rub them with a wet finger ;-)

I tried the rubber end of the mallet first, but could not get a sharp enough
blow to click it in.

Warming them up first can make them a bit easier to work with...

[1] To answer a previous question, which was "how to bead when your beads
all have one end square cut" - the answer is:

Do the bottom (or top) first as you prefer.

Do the top (or bottom) next.

From the remaining pieces, insert square cut end at an angle and push/wiggle
it down behind its neighbour. Then as someone suggested, start at the other
end and it will (mostly) sort itself out.

Yup, doing the short side first is usually easiest.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:


Rub them with a wet finger ;-)


Thanks John. I tried that. It does not get rid of them, but they seem less
bad now.

The eye is tuned to extreme perfection when doing a job. I expect (hope) I
will not notice the odd blemish. Need to see it in daylight tomorrow...

I tried the rubber end of the mallet first, but could not get a sharp
enough blow to click it in.

Warming them up first can make them a bit easier to work with...

Might be a good time to break out the hairdryer

[1] To answer a previous question, which was "how to bead when your beads
all have one end square cut" - the answer is:

Do the bottom (or top) first as you prefer.

Do the top (or bottom) next.

From the remaining pieces, insert square cut end at an angle and
push/wiggle
it down behind its neighbour. Then as someone suggested, start at the
other end and it will (mostly) sort itself out.

Yup, doing the short side first is usually easiest.

I also noticed if I lick the square end, both surface and seal, it slides in
rather easier...

IMO these beads are cut just a fraction too long.

Anyway, if anyone wants a rundown on windowsanddoors.co.uk, here it is:


(Rosewood uPVC windows, about 1.2m x 1m)

0) Website is good allowing easy playing with the spec and seeing the price
on screen.

1) Frames are solid enough - with steel. (White would not have steel unless
specially ordered)

2) No black handles! Have to go with gold.

3) Handles OK, but key lock is rather crappy, even by windows handle
standards.

4) Beads - not as happy with the beading as I was with the Rehau units I got
from a Tunbridge Wells supplier.

5) Some DG panels have got the sealing gunk on the glass face - minor but be
nice if they came clean!

6) Frame dimensions exactly what I ordered - well cut and welded neatly.

7) Very helpful on the phone at ordering time.

8) Not very helpful aftersales - had to email them, phone calls not allowed!
To be fair, email was answered reasonably promptly.

9) Delivery - helpful, bloke helped me inside with them even though it's
technically a "kerbside delivery".

10) Price - pretty good overall - a good deal less than my local supplier
(who does not like selling for self fit any more).



Overall rating - for the money, fairly decent. Few bits could be better, but
in the grand scheme of things I probably will not care ;-

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

On 06/12/2012 17:40, Tim Watts wrote:
John Rumm wrote:


Rub them with a wet finger ;-)


Thanks John. I tried that. It does not get rid of them, but they seem less
bad now.

Sorry that was a slightly facetious comment since you did mention that
in your original post.

Plastic is IME very difficult to "retouch" in anyway - often cleaning
and then leaving well alone is the best option.

The eye is tuned to extreme perfection when doing a job. I expect (hope) I
will not notice the odd blemish. Need to see it in daylight tomorrow...

I tried the rubber end of the mallet first, but could not get a sharp
enough blow to click it in.

Warming them up first can make them a bit easier to work with...

Might be a good time to break out the hairdryer

Yup, or a bowl of hot slight soapy water can help warm and lubricate a bit.

I also noticed if I lick the square end, both surface and seal, it slides in
rather easier...

IMO these beads are cut just a fraction too long.

I thought that with some I have done, but when you finally get them all
in in place the joins look neat - so unless they rely on them
compressing a bit as they go in, they might in reality be "just right".


Anyway, if anyone wants a rundown on windowsanddoors.co.uk, here it is:


(Rosewood uPVC windows, about 1.2m x 1m)

0) Website is good allowing easy playing with the spec and seeing the price
on screen.

1) Frames are solid enough - with steel. (White would not have steel unless
specially ordered)

2) No black handles! Have to go with gold.

3) Handles OK, but key lock is rather crappy, even by windows handle
standards.

4) Beads - not as happy with the beading as I was with the Rehau units I got
from a Tunbridge Wells supplier.

5) Some DG panels have got the sealing gunk on the glass face - minor but be
nice if they came clean!

6) Frame dimensions exactly what I ordered - well cut and welded neatly.

7) Very helpful on the phone at ordering time.

8) Not very helpful aftersales - had to email them, phone calls not allowed!
To be fair, email was answered reasonably promptly.

9) Delivery - helpful, bloke helped me inside with them even though it's
technically a "kerbside delivery".

10) Price - pretty good overall - a good deal less than my local supplier
(who does not like selling for self fit any more).



Overall rating - for the money, fairly decent. Few bits could be better, but
in the grand scheme of things I probably will not care ;-

Good to know.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

On 06/12/2012 17:40, Tim Watts wrote:
John Rumm wrote:


Rub them with a wet finger ;-)


Thanks John. I tried that. It does not get rid of them, but they seem
less bad now.

Sorry that was a slightly facetious comment since you did mention that
in your original post.

Not at all Please don't apologise to me

I did not mention, but I should have.

I set up a test and told SWMBO something was wrong but not waht. She did not
notice. When I pointed it out, she was "whatever, it's not much".

Plastic is IME very difficult to "retouch" in anyway - often cleaning
and then leaving well alone is the best option.



The eye is tuned to extreme perfection when doing a job. I expect (hope)
I will not notice the odd blemish. Need to see it in daylight tomorrow...

I tried the rubber end of the mallet first, but could not get a sharp
enough blow to click it in.

Warming them up first can make them a bit easier to work with...

Might be a good time to break out the hairdryer

Yup, or a bowl of hot slight soapy water can help warm and lubricate a
bit.

I also noticed if I lick the square end, both surface and seal, it slides
in rather easier...

IMO these beads are cut just a fraction too long.

I thought that with some I have done, but when you finally get them all
in in place the joins look neat - so unless they rely on them
compressing a bit as they go in, they might in reality be "just right".

Ah - the "interference fit" - could be...


Anyway, if anyone wants a rundown on windowsanddoors.co.uk, here it is:


(Rosewood uPVC windows, about 1.2m x 1m)

0) Website is good allowing easy playing with the spec and seeing the
price on screen.

1) Frames are solid enough - with steel. (White would not have steel
unless specially ordered)

2) No black handles! Have to go with gold.

3) Handles OK, but key lock is rather crappy, even by windows handle
standards.

4) Beads - not as happy with the beading as I was with the Rehau units I
got from a Tunbridge Wells supplier.

5) Some DG panels have got the sealing gunk on the glass face - minor but
be nice if they came clean!

6) Frame dimensions exactly what I ordered - well cut and welded neatly.

7) Very helpful on the phone at ordering time.

8) Not very helpful aftersales - had to email them, phone calls not
allowed! To be fair, email was answered reasonably promptly.

9) Delivery - helpful, bloke helped me inside with them even though it's
technically a "kerbside delivery".

10) Price - pretty good overall - a good deal less than my local supplier
(who does not like selling for self fit any more).



Overall rating - for the money, fairly decent. Few bits could be better,
but in the grand scheme of things I probably will not care ;-

Good to know.


At least it gives you a guide price...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

Tim Watts wrote...

That did not go quite as well as my first set of windows.

The beading IMHO is a *very* tight fit[1] and takes some pretty sharp blows
with a nylon faced mallet to click

If I read your post correctly, this seams an unusual method of cutting
beads.

For bevelled beads the usual method is to cut the top and bottom beads
square and both sides angled. Top and bottom beads in first and then the
sides which are corner fitted first and then pushed/hammered in.

You should only use a rubber faced mallet with masking tape on the bead
if it's that tight.

It's common for the beads to be slightly over size circa 1mm.

--
Ilene

Ilene D'over wrote:

Tim Watts wrote...

That did not go quite as well as my first set of windows.

The beading IMHO is a *very* tight fit[1] and takes some pretty sharp
blows with a nylon faced mallet to click

If I read your post correctly, this seams an unusual method of cutting
beads.

For bevelled beads the usual method is to cut the top and bottom beads
square and both sides angled. Top and bottom beads in first and then the
sides which are corner fitted first and then pushed/hammered in.

You should only use a rubber faced mallet with masking tape on the bead
if it's that tight.

It's common for the beads to be slightly over size circa 1mm.


Hi,

Thanks for that. Yes - the beads I had from the local supplier were like you
say.

I've managed to switch to using the rubber face of the mallet combining with
John's suggestion of warming them in warm water with a drop of Fairy.

That certainly helps - wiggling the square end in is a *lot* easier with the
water as a lubricant.

I have to say, the hammer marks are not really visible in diffuse daylight.

If they ever start to **** me off I can get fresh beads and replace a couple
next summer - but it probably won't be necessary.

Cheers!

Tim
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

Tim Watts wrote...

Ilene D'over wrote:

Tim Watts wrote...

That did not go quite as well as my first set of windows.

The beading IMHO is a *very* tight fit[1] and takes some pretty sharp
blows with a nylon faced mallet to click

If I read your post correctly, this seams an unusual method of cutting
beads.

For bevelled beads the usual method is to cut the top and bottom beads
square and both sides angled. Top and bottom beads in first and then the
sides which are corner fitted first and then pushed/hammered in.

You should only use a rubber faced mallet with masking tape on the bead
if it's that tight.

It's common for the beads to be slightly over size circa 1mm.


Hi,

Thanks for that. Yes - the beads I had from the local supplier were like you
say.

That's good.

I've managed to switch to using the rubber face of the mallet combining with
John's suggestion of warming them in warm water with a drop of Fairy.

Not usually necessary but a good idea.

That certainly helps - wiggling the square end in is a *lot* easier with the
water as a lubricant.

I have to say, the hammer marks are not really visible in diffuse daylight.

Non-abrasive car polish wiped off with meths after polishing is a good
DIY cleaning method.

If they ever start to **** me off I can get fresh beads and replace a couple
next summer - but it probably won't be necessary.

One tip, contrary to what may seem obvious, the cut angle on the beads
will often not be 45 degrees as most bevelled beads are not 45 degrees.
The ones we fit are 46.5 degrees so you have to undercut by 1.5 degrees
on the saw i.e. 43.5 degrees.

It is more difficult than you imagine to cut beads, especially without
the glass fitted because the beads flex outwards when the glass is in so
what looks good on the bench often ends up with mis-aligned corners when
the glass is fitted. We use modified saws with the correct angle set on
the table stops, using a mitre saw at home can cause problems.

If you do replace the beads, you may need a few practise runs with short
sections to get the angle right and you will, of course, do it properly
)

--
Ilene

Ilene D'over wrote:

Tim Watts wrote...

Ilene D'over wrote:

Tim Watts wrote...

That did not go quite as well as my first set of windows.

The beading IMHO is a *very* tight fit[1] and takes some pretty sharp
blows with a nylon faced mallet to click

If I read your post correctly, this seams an unusual method of cutting
beads.

For bevelled beads the usual method is to cut the top and bottom beads
square and both sides angled. Top and bottom beads in first and then the
sides which are corner fitted first and then pushed/hammered in.

You should only use a rubber faced mallet with masking tape on the bead
if it's that tight.

It's common for the beads to be slightly over size circa 1mm.


Hi,

Thanks for that. Yes - the beads I had from the local supplier were like
you say.

That's good.

I've managed to switch to using the rubber face of the mallet combining
with John's suggestion of warming them in warm water with a drop of Fairy.

Not usually necessary but a good idea.

That certainly helps - wiggling the square end in is a *lot* easier with
the water as a lubricant.

I have to say, the hammer marks are not really visible in diffuse
daylight.

Non-abrasive car polish wiped off with meths after polishing is a good
DIY cleaning method.

If they ever start to **** me off I can get fresh beads and replace a
couple next summer - but it probably won't be necessary.

One tip, contrary to what may seem obvious, the cut angle on the beads
will often not be 45 degrees as most bevelled beads are not 45 degrees.
The ones we fit are 46.5 degrees so you have to undercut by 1.5 degrees
on the saw i.e. 43.5 degrees.

It is more difficult than you imagine to cut beads, especially without
the glass fitted because the beads flex outwards when the glass is in so
what looks good on the bench often ends up with mis-aligned corners when
the glass is fitted. We use modified saws with the correct angle set on
the table stops, using a mitre saw at home can cause problems.

If you do replace the beads, you may need a few practise runs with short
sections to get the angle right and you will, of course, do it properly
)


Ah - a pro - as in you make them?

windowsanddoors are sending me 2m uncut gratis, which is nice of them.

Cheers!

Tim

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

Tim Watts wrote...

Ah - a pro - as in you make them?

I'm so glad you clarified your use of "pro" )

--
Ilene

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 09:20:56 +0000, Ilene D'over wrote:


For bevelled beads the usual method is to cut the top and bottom beads
square and both sides angled.

eh? How does that work then without leaving a gap?


--

The Other Mike wrote:

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 09:20:56 +0000, Ilene D'over
wrote:


For bevelled beads the usual method is to cut the top and bottom beads
square and both sides angled.

eh? How does that work then without leaving a gap?


--

The square goes *under* the adjoing mitre.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 09:20:56 +0000, Ilene D'over wrote:


For bevelled beads the usual method is to cut the top and bottom beads
square and both sides angled.

eh? How does that work then without leaving a gap?

I think the important term there was "bevelled". What was described is a
mason's mitre.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/