Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly to
give us a true sound stage?

Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two speakers
- one above the other!

On 20/11/2012 19:49, DerbyBorn wrote:
Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly to
give us a true sound stage?

Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two speakers
- one above the other!

Ideal when you are lying down on it. :-)

--
Rod

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:49:10 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly to
give us a true sound stage?

Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two speakers
- one above the other!


That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning
was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about
ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained
sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and
didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)






--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

"Graham." wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:49:10 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly to
give us a true sound stage?

Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two
speakers
- one above the other!


That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning
was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about
ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained
sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and
didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)


The ceiling speakers I am contemplating should be one at each end of a
galley kitchen so should be positioned to give reasonable stereo separation
if you are cooking at the hob.
Not so good at the sink, though :-)

I think these days (especially looking at single speaker cabinets which are
supposed to immitate stereo separation) that minimalist is more important
than audiophile.

Still love my big floorstanders though but there is no place for them in the
new living area.
I do have provision in the main living area for a couple of bookshelf
speakers on wall brackets, though, with concealed wiring.

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:55:54 -0000, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:


"Graham." wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:49:10 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly to
give us a true sound stage?

Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two
speakers
- one above the other!


That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning
was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about
ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained
sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and
didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)


The ceiling speakers I am contemplating should be one at each end of a
galley kitchen so should be positioned to give reasonable stereo separation
if you are cooking at the hob.
Not so good at the sink, though :-)

I think these days (especially looking at single speaker cabinets which are
supposed to immitate stereo separation) that minimalist is more important
than audiophile.

Still love my big floorstanders though but there is no place for them in the
new living area.
I do have provision in the main living area for a couple of bookshelf
speakers on wall brackets, though, with concealed wiring.

Cheers

Dave R

Have you considered mono for both speakers?

OK, maybe you will enjoy the stereo in your kitchen even if imperfect,
but I often hear systems like that in larger areas, usually in hotel
restaurants actually, where the speaker(s) carrying the "other"
channel are so far away they had a totally different acoustic and mono
would have been my preference.



--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 20/11/2012 19:49, DerbyBorn wrote:

Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly to
give us a true sound stage?

Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two speakers
- one above the other!

There are two types of stereo user[1] I have decided, them that care
about how it sounds, and those that care about how it looks and fits
into the room.

[1] A rough approximation could call these groups "men" and "women".
Although its worth noting that "women" come in both sexes.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly
to give us a true sound stage?

Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two
speakers - one above the other!


That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning
was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about
ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained
sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and
didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)

Did I mention stereo? ;-)

--
*What boots up must come down *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
Have you considered mono for both speakers?

OK, maybe you will enjoy the stereo in your kitchen even if imperfect,
but I often hear systems like that in larger areas, usually in hotel
restaurants actually, where the speaker(s) carrying the "other"
channel are so far away they had a totally different acoustic and mono
would have been my preference.

Quite. I'd far rather have mono unless in the sweet spot between the
speakers.

--
*Never kick a cow pat on a hot day *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning
was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about
ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained
sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and
didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)

Of course you could always compromise...

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Speaker.jpg

--
*Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 21/11/2012 00:11, Owain wrote:
On Nov 20, 10:49 pm, John Rumm wrote:
Although its worth noting that "women" come in both sexes.

Is that what's meant by bi-wiring?

Tried that once, messed up my sound stage and my hair ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Or a bass bin under the seats.. Yes, I know its all completely mad!
Back in the 70s there was a stereo winged arm chair that sounded ok but this
only lasted till you moved your head.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly to
give us a true sound stage?

Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two
speakers
- one above the other!

Yes, well maybe its been designed for use with DAB, where the majority of
the stations seem to be in mono in any case.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 20/11/2012 19:49, DerbyBorn wrote:
Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly
to
give us a true sound stage?

Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two
speakers
- one above the other!

Ideal when you are lying down on it. :-)

--
Rod

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:49:11 PM UTC, DerbyBorn wrote:
Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly to give us a true sound stage? Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two speakers - one above the other!

For the stereo method invented by Blumlein in 1931 (which is still the basis for stereo recording and reproduction today) you should have an angle of 90 degrees between the speakers as seen from your sitting positon.

Robert

On Nov 20, 10:49*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/11/2012 19:49, DerbyBorn wrote:

Remember how we used to take efforts to position our speakers correctly to
give us a true sound stage?

Now I have seen sofas advertised with a built in iPod dock and two speakers
- one above the other!

There are two types of stereo user[1] I have decided, them that care
about how it sounds, and those that care about how it looks and fits
into the room.


Three types.

You forgot Russ Andrew's customers - those who care more about what it
costs.

MBQ

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning
was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about
ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained
sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and
didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)

Of course you could always compromise...

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Speaker.jpg

I remember my father mounting speakers just like that in the mid 1950s.

That was when his experiments with stereo involved two mono valve amps.

--
Sam

Sam Plusnet wrote in news:MPG.2b17726a618ddd49898f9
@news.plus.net:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning
was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about
ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained
sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and
didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)

Of course you could always compromise...

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Speaker.jpg

I remember my father mounting speakers just like that in the mid 1950s.

That was when his experiments with stereo involved two mono valve amps.



I wonder how many of us would admit to having a Stereo Tester record with
railway sounds going from left to right!

Sam Plusnet wrote:

I remember my father mounting speakers just like that in the mid 1950s.

That was when his experiments with stereo involved two mono valve amps.

I recall an experimental broadcast, with two channels - one on
radio and the other on TV.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On 22/11/2012 09:54, DerbyBorn wrote:
Sam Plusnet wrote in news:MPG.2b17726a618ddd49898f9
@news.plus.net:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning
was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about
ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained
sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and
didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)

Of course you could always compromise...

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Speaker.jpg

I remember my father mounting speakers just like that in the mid 1950s.

That was when his experiments with stereo involved two mono valve amps.



I wonder how many of us would admit to having a Stereo Tester record with
railway sounds going from left to right!

I have a test CD which has various spot and sliding tones, channel pans
etc, plus selection of noise tracks, and some music excerpts.

The sliding tones are very good at highlighting resonances in speakers
or other frequency dependent problems.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/11/2012 09:54, DerbyBorn wrote:
Sam Plusnet wrote in news:MPG.2b17726a618ddd49898f9
@news.plus.net:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning
was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about
ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained
sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and
didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)

Of course you could always compromise...

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Speaker.jpg

I remember my father mounting speakers just like that in the mid 1950s.

That was when his experiments with stereo involved two mono valve amps.



I wonder how many of us would admit to having a Stereo Tester record with
railway sounds going from left to right!

How many would admit hearing the train going right to left?

--
Rod

In article , Chris J Dixon
scribeth thus
Sam Plusnet wrote:

I remember my father mounting speakers just like that in the mid 1950s.

That was when his experiments with stereo involved two mono valve amps.

I recall an experimental broadcast, with two channels - one on
radio and the other on TV.

Chris

Medium wave for the left and TV BBC 405 lines for the right was it
now;?...


--
Tony Sayer

In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote:
Of course you could always compromise...

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Speaker.jpg

I remember my father mounting speakers just like that in the mid 1950s.

That was when his experiments with stereo involved two mono valve amps.



I wonder how many of us would admit to having a Stereo Tester record
with railway sounds going from left to right!

Pros use a ping pong game. ;-)

--
*Who is this General Failure chap anyway - and why is he reading my HD? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

tony sayer wrote:

In article , Chris J Dixon
scribeth thus

I recall an experimental broadcast, with two channels - one on
radio and the other on TV.

Medium wave for the left and TV BBC 405 lines for the right was it
now;?...

That sounds about right to me.

I also remember visiting the annual Audio Fair, held at Hotel
Russell, in 1967. They had a demonstration of Ambiophony, which
used front and rear speakers in an attempt to recreate the
ambience of the original location.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

DerbyBorn wrote:
I wonder how many of us would admit to having a Stereo Tester record with
railway sounds going from left to right!

"Thank you for buying this *Akai* tape recorder. This is the sound of a
Japanese steam locomotive." Cue sound effect as described

I wish I could find that tape...

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Medium wave for the left and TV BBC 405 lines for the right was it
now;?...

FM was around at the time. But not in stereo.

--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Williamson wrote:
"Thank you for buying this *Akai* tape recorder. This is the sound of a
Japanese steam locomotive." Cue sound effect as described

I wish I could find that tape...

I have an early Akai reel to reel which still works very well - and kept
for transcribing 1/4 track stuff, as my 'proper' recorders are half track.

The instructions say something like:-

"If problem experienced help will be got by the agent stamped on the
backside".

--
*IS THERE ANOTHER WORD FOR SYNONYM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:55:59 PM UTC, David WE Roberts wrote:
"Still love my big floorstanders though but there is no place for them in the
new living area. "


Me too. I still use a pair of KEFkit 3 (Concerto) speakers I helped to build in 1971. They are in the front room. I'm also planning to use another pair of old KEF Concertos to be mounted high up in the new kitchen much as you describe.

Robert

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Williamson wrote:
"Thank you for buying this *Akai* tape recorder. This is the sound of a
Japanese steam locomotive." Cue sound effect as described

I wish I could find that tape...

I have an early Akai reel to reel which still works very well - and kept
for transcribing 1/4 track stuff, as my 'proper' recorders are half track.

The instructions say something like:-

"If problem experienced help will be got by the agent stamped on the
backside".

I've got the recorder, but at some point between my brother buying it
new and me inheriting it, the original sales tape has gone missing. It
works as well as it ever did, but it *is* one of the cheaper ones. The
Philips EL3541 also works, rather surprisingly, considering the habit
their belts and idlers have of turning into goo at the drop of a hat.
possibly the decades in South Africa's dry rarified air helped.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:55:49 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
The
Philips EL3541 also works, rather surprisingly, considering the habit
their belts and idlers have of turning into goo at the drop of a hat.
possibly the decades in South Africa's dry rarified air helped.

If it's anything like the idlers on computer tape drives, the type of
atmospheric conditions that they're subjected to seems to make no
difference - some of them just go bad, even from the same manufacturer
and time period :-(

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:55:49 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
The
Philips EL3541 also works, rather surprisingly, considering the habit
their belts and idlers have of turning into goo at the drop of a hat.
possibly the decades in South Africa's dry rarified air helped.

If it's anything like the idlers on computer tape drives, the type of
atmospheric conditions that they're subjected to seems to make no
difference - some of them just go bad, even from the same manufacturer
and time period :-(

Jules Richardson wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:55:49 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
The
Philips EL3541 also works, rather surprisingly, considering the habit
their belts and idlers have of turning into goo at the drop of a hat.
possibly the decades in South Africa's dry rarified air helped.

If it's anything like the idlers on computer tape drives, the type of
atmospheric conditions that they're subjected to seems to make no
difference - some of them just go bad, even from the same manufacturer
and time period :-(

That's plausible. I've got another Philips recorder from the same era
that's totally borked due to the idler problem. That one lived in
Yorkshire, though. The EL3301 cassette recorder I found in a junk shop
in Uxbridge is working fine after a new set of belts a few years ago.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012, "DerbyBorn" writ:

Sam Plusnet wrote in news:MPG.2b17726a618ddd49898f9
:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning
was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about
ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained
sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and
didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)

Of course you could always compromise...

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Speaker.jpg

I remember my father mounting speakers just like that in the mid 1950s.

That was when his experiments with stereo involved two mono valve amps.



I wonder how many of us would admit to having a Stereo Tester record with
railway sounds going from left to right!

I've got one! The original "Journey into Stereo Sound" and it still
sounds great today. Shame they can't make recordings sound so "real"
today.
--
P

On Friday, November 23, 2012 8:18:24 AM UTC, Percy wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012, "DerbyBorn" writ:



Sam Plusnet wrote in news:MPG.2b17726a618ddd49898f9

:



In article ,

says...



In article ,

Graham. wrote:

That's strange because I was wondering if correct speaker positioning

was no longer de rigueur yesterday, when reading a thread about

ceiling speakers in this very newsgroup and an experienced BBC trained

sound engineer who will remain Dave Plowman made a contribution and

didn't condemn the idea totally ;-)



Of course you could always compromise...



http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Speaker.jpg



I remember my father mounting speakers just like that in the mid 1950s..



That was when his experiments with stereo involved two mono valve amps..







I wonder how many of us would admit to having a Stereo Tester record with

railway sounds going from left to right!



I've got one! The original "Journey into Stereo Sound" and it still

sounds great today. Shame they can't make recordings sound so "real"

today.

Some radio 4 plays are pretty good on a good stereo. You know, the door clicks and you look round, etc.
A few years ago they broadcast something that was recorded using the model head method and to be listened to with headphones. Was supposed to be remarkably realistic due to the back/front/up/down information related to the non-polar response of the ears being available to the listener.
What you really need is the audio equivalent of a hologram, so you are actually "in" the original audio environment.
Simon.

On 23/11/2012 09:19, sm_jamieson wrote:

Some radio 4 plays are pretty good on a good stereo. You know, the door clicks and you look round, etc.
A few years ago they broadcast something that was recorded using the model head method and to be listened to with headphones. Was supposed to be remarkably realistic due to the back/front/up/down information related to the non-polar response of the ears being available to the listener.
What you really need is the audio equivalent of a hologram, so you are actually "in" the original audio environment.
Simon.

Was that Andrew Sachs - “The Revenge” (1978)?

--
Rod

On 22/11/2012 13:41, John Williamson wrote:
DerbyBorn wrote:
I wonder how many of us would admit to having a Stereo Tester record
with railway sounds going from left to right!

"Thank you for buying this *Akai* tape recorder. This is the sound of a
Japanese steam locomotive." Cue sound effect as described

I wish I could find that tape...


Here you go ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML3SSu1E1Wg


I've also got the same tape somewhere (if not munched up by the
squirrels...)

--
Adrian C

Adrian C wrote:
On 22/11/2012 13:41, John Williamson wrote:
DerbyBorn wrote:
I wonder how many of us would admit to having a Stereo Tester record
with railway sounds going from left to right!

"Thank you for buying this *Akai* tape recorder. This is the sound of a
Japanese steam locomotive." Cue sound effect as described

I wish I could find that tape...


Here you go ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML3SSu1E1Wg

That's the one. It looks like the same type of tape recorder I've got, too.

Now, why couldn't I find that clip?

I've also got the same tape somewhere (if not munched up by the
squirrels...)

Could be fun.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Those Audio Fidelity records were good fun, the train, the sinking submarine
the Russian roulette etc.

Rather over the top stereo of course as at the time radiograms were the new
thing with a speaker each end and people wanted to hear 'real' stereo.
Brian

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
On 22/11/2012 13:41, John Williamson wrote:
DerbyBorn wrote:
I wonder how many of us would admit to having a Stereo Tester record
with railway sounds going from left to right!

"Thank you for buying this *Akai* tape recorder. This is the sound of a
Japanese steam locomotive." Cue sound effect as described

I wish I could find that tape...


Here you go ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML3SSu1E1Wg


I've also got the same tape somewhere (if not munched up by the
squirrels...)

--
Adrian C


--
From the laptop of

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Those Audio Fidelity records were good fun, the train, the sinking
submarine the Russian roulette etc.

[Snip]

I had the 1812 Overture with real cannon, backed with various test tracks
including: "Musician's A, Four Hundred and Forty cycles per second - US
Government standard"

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 17:44:29 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

I had the 1812 Overture with real cannon,

I doubt that there isa sound system out there that can properly reproduce
the sound of a cannon. Remember being in Bristol Docks for some tall
ships/sailing event, they fired a proper cannon. I was about 1/2 a mile
away and still felt the blast wave, loudest single sound I've ever heard.

Mind you the flash/bang fireworks at the climax of the village firework
show last weekend were pretty loud. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 17:50:47 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 17:44:29 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

I had the 1812 Overture with real cannon,

I doubt that there isa sound system out there that can properly
reproduce the sound of a cannon. Remember being in Bristol Docks for
some tall ships/sailing event, they fired a proper cannon. I was about
1/2 a mile away and still felt the blast wave, loudest single sound I've
ever heard.

Mind you the flash/bang fireworks at the climax of the village firework
show last weekend were pretty loud. B-)

Loudest for me must have been driving past the local aerodrome when a
Harrier was doing a vertical take off a few yards the other side of the
fence.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 17:50:47 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 17:44:29 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

I had the 1812 Overture with real cannon,

I doubt that there isa sound system out there that can properly
reproduce the sound of a cannon. Remember being in Bristol Docks for
some tall ships/sailing event, they fired a proper cannon. I was about
1/2 a mile away and still felt the blast wave, loudest single sound I've
ever heard.

Mind you the flash/bang fireworks at the climax of the village firework
show last weekend were pretty loud. B-)

Loudest for me must have been driving past the local aerodrome when a
Harrier was doing a vertical take off a few yards the other side of the
fence.


For me: the Red Arrows predecessors flying Lightnings when all 9 took off
vertically together at Farnborough. We were very close to the lift off
point on the runway.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18