We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

On 19/10/2012 13:44, Adam Funk wrote:
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

A hifi FM radio with a decent aerial still works significantly *better*
than DAB radio if you actually enjoy listening to music as opposed to a
rough approximation performed underwater.

The bitrate on DAB is too low for adequate quality music reproduction
except for in-car entertainment. No RDS data completes its failure.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 19/10/2012 13:52, Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/10/2012 13:44, Adam Funk wrote:
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

A hifi FM radio with a decent aerial still works significantly *better*
than DAB radio if you actually enjoy listening to music as opposed to a
rough approximation performed underwater.

The bitrate on DAB is too low for adequate quality music reproduction
except for in-car entertainment.

Doesn't that vary by station?

On Oct 19, 2:15*pm, Clive George wrote:
On 19/10/2012 13:52, Martin Brown wrote:

On 19/10/2012 13:44, Adam Funk wrote:
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

A hifi FM radio with a decent aerial still works significantly *better*
than DAB radio if you actually enjoy listening to music as opposed to a
rough approximation performed underwater.

The bitrate on DAB is too low for adequate quality music reproduction
except for in-car entertainment.

Doesn't that vary by station?

Yes, from already too low downwards.

MBQ

On 19/10/2012 14:15, Clive George wrote:
On 19/10/2012 13:52, Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/10/2012 13:44, Adam Funk wrote:
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

A hifi FM radio with a decent aerial still works significantly *better*
than DAB radio if you actually enjoy listening to music as opposed to a
rough approximation performed underwater.

The bitrate on DAB is too low for adequate quality music reproduction
except for in-car entertainment.

Doesn't that vary by station?

To some extent yes. But none are high enough for hifi.
They start at barely adequate and go down to **** poor.

The only thing DAB does better is dead air gaps between programmes.

None of the DAB radio tuners I have is up to the job and it isn't like
were are in a borderline reception area. The pops and burbles when it
rains in mid summer render it unlistenable even on voice channels.

I guess in a retro sort of way if you enjoy the presenters of the Today
Program sounding like the Subterraneans on Stingray then it is OK. My
most recent DAB radio is *so* bad it only gets used on the internet!

I can live with a little background hiss around speakers and a decent
stereo image much more easily than a burbling hotchpotch of noise.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

The bitrate on DAB is too low for adequate quality music reproduction
except for in-car entertainment.

Doesn't that vary by station?

To some extent yes. But none are high enough for hifi.
They start at barely adequate and go down to **** poor.

The only thing DAB does better is dead air gaps between programmes.

None of the DAB radio tuners I have is up to the job and it isn't like
were are in a borderline reception area. The pops and burbles when it
rains in mid summer render it unlistenable even on voice channels.

I guess in a retro sort of way if you enjoy the presenters of the Today
Program sounding like the Subterraneans on Stingray then it is OK. My
most recent DAB radio is *so* bad it only gets used on the internet!

I can live with a little background hiss around speakers and a decent
stereo image much more easily than a burbling hotchpotch of noise.


+1


DAB is screwed for anything other than portable listening...
--
Tony Sayer

On 19/10/2012 17:15, tony sayer wrote:

The bitrate on DAB is too low for adequate quality music reproduction
except for in-car entertainment.

Doesn't that vary by station?

To some extent yes. But none are high enough for hifi.
They start at barely adequate and go down to **** poor.

The only thing DAB does better is dead air gaps between programmes.

None of the DAB radio tuners I have is up to the job and it isn't like
were are in a borderline reception area. The pops and burbles when it
rains in mid summer render it unlistenable even on voice channels.

I guess in a retro sort of way if you enjoy the presenters of the Today
Program sounding like the Subterraneans on Stingray then it is OK. My
most recent DAB radio is *so* bad it only gets used on the internet!

I can live with a little background hiss around speakers and a decent
stereo image much more easily than a burbling hotchpotch of noise.


+1


DAB is screwed for anything other than portable listening...


And even then you need a power supply.

--
Michael Chare

Clive George wrote:
On 19/10/2012 13:52, Martin Brown wrote:
The bitrate on DAB is too low for adequate quality music reproduction
except for in-car entertainment.

Doesn't that vary by station?


The highest DAB bitrate is normally on Radio 3, and that gives the
equivalent to a good quality cassette deck, assuming you have a good
signal. The local stations are at a bitrate that is equivalent to an
early Philips cassette recorder such as the EL3301, and are normally
mono to boot. For the commercial stations, it's as low as the
accountants could get it without the "engineering staff" actually
walking out, then they put it through an optimod just to make sure the
sound quality matches the programming standards.

For home listening, throw away the DAB tuner, and buy an internet radio,
if your broadband connection is good enough to cope. You'll get more
stations and usually better quality.

Or put a decent aerial on your AM/ FM tuner, and the FM will sound as
good as a decent open reel tape, and even the AM will often sound better
than DAB.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Friday, October 19, 2012 7:25:19 PM UTC+1, John Williamson wrote:
The highest DAB bitrate is normally on Radio 3, and that gives the
equivalent to a good quality cassette deck, assuming you have a good
signal.

That is true, but they don't use the higher rate (with full stereo) all the time. Some of the time even radio 3 drops down to an even lower bit rate and "joint stereo". Many UK channels are in mono and noe (apart from R3 sometimes) is in full stereo.

I agree that FM is better than DAB, but the best radio reception seems to be satellite.

Robert

In article ,
RobertL writes
On Friday, October 19, 2012 7:25:19 PM UTC+1, John Williamson wrote:
The highest DAB bitrate is normally on Radio 3, and that gives the
equivalent to a good quality cassette deck, assuming you have a good
signal.
Last night, out of curiosity I played a shellac 78rpm record of Kathleen
Ferrier on the old portable wind up gramophone from the attic. Using a
thorn needle I was surprised at how good it sounded!
--
Chris Holford

Well it does vary, but its potential is far better. the problem will be that
in the future indeed for some stations now, the dab resolution signal is
relayed over fm amaking it just as bed. Smooth are you listening?

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Clive George" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 19/10/2012 13:52, Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/10/2012 13:44, Adam Funk wrote:
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

A hifi FM radio with a decent aerial still works significantly *better*
than DAB radio if you actually enjoy listening to music as opposed to a
rough approximation performed underwater.

The bitrate on DAB is too low for adequate quality music reproduction
except for in-car entertainment.

Doesn't that vary by station?

"Brian Gaff" wrote in
:

Well it does vary, but its potential is far better. the problem will
be that in the future indeed for some stations now, the dab resolution
signal is relayed over fm amaking it just as bed. Smooth are you
listening?

Brian


You will see some beautiful stuff inside and some neat construction.
Screening, separation, etc are interesting to see.

In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
Well it does vary, but its potential is far better. the problem will be that
in the future indeed for some stations now, the dab resolution signal is
relayed over fm amaking it just as bed. Smooth are you listening?

Brian


Not that I know of Brian, the signal is sometimes carried on low rate
studio to transmitter links...

--
Tony Sayer

On 19/10/2012 13:44, Adam Funk wrote:
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

Only by people who care about sound quality ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2012-10-19, John Rumm wrote:

On 19/10/2012 13:44, Adam Funk wrote:
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

Only by people who care about sound quality ;-)

Well, I guess I asked for the responses of that type! I'm aware of
the bubbling sound effects, but I was under the impression the
analogue radio signals were going to be turned off in the near future.
Do you guys think the complaints about DAB quality will affect that?

In article , Adam Funk
scribeth thus
On 2012-10-19, John Rumm wrote:

On 19/10/2012 13:44, Adam Funk wrote:
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

Only by people who care about sound quality ;-)

Well, I guess I asked for the responses of that type! I'm aware of
the bubbling sound effects, but I was under the impression the
analogue radio signals were going to be turned off in the near future.
Do you guys think the complaints about DAB quality will affect that?

Theres no real official plan as yet to switch of FM completely. It seems
that at some stage FM will be used for smaller local and community
stations but by that time I suspect that 4G radio services may well
become the digital radio bearer. DAB is an outmoded system by today's
standards. Consider it a 286 in a dual core world;!...


--
Tony Sayer

On 20/10/2012 21:28, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-10-19, John Rumm wrote:

On 19/10/2012 13:44, Adam Funk wrote:
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

Only by people who care about sound quality ;-)

Well, I guess I asked for the responses of that type! I'm aware of
the bubbling sound effects, but I was under the impression the
analogue radio signals were going to be turned off in the near future.

I was under the impression they have backed away from that idea somewhat
now...

Even with the fiddle factors in the counting, there has not been enough
takeup of DAB.

Do you guys think the complaints about DAB quality will affect that?

Yup


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/10/2012 21:28, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-10-19, John Rumm wrote:

On 19/10/2012 13:44, Adam Funk wrote:
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

Only by people who care about sound quality ;-)

Well, I guess I asked for the responses of that type! I'm aware of
the bubbling sound effects, but I was under the impression the
analogue radio signals were going to be turned off in the near future.

Not if we can help it! There is a strong axis of informed opinion that
is giving the charlatans that promote DAB a very hard time when they go
on the likes of You and Yours and pretend it is all going to plan.

They will switch off analogue *TV* in favour of digital terrestrial TV.
A change that I am supremely indifferent to as I take a satellite feed
which has higher bitrate available audio anyway. I haven't watched
analogue TV apart from at my parents as they liked the old teletext and
are finding the new digital service hard to adapt to. They knew the
magic numbers for news/weather pages on the old Ceefax system.

Do you guys think the complaints about DAB quality will affect that?

Yes. Until they get a certain level of acceptance they cannot switch off
the analogue FM signals. No audophile or decent sound engineer wants it
to happen until the replacement is as good or better than the existing
FM broadcast quality. DAB at present bitrates falls well short.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Sunday, October 21, 2012 9:48:20 AM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
The highest DAB bitrate is normally on Radio 3, and that gives the
equivalent to a good quality cassette deck, assuming you have a good
signal.

They used to promote DAB as "CD quality sound from your radio" until the advertising standards authority stopped them.

Robert

In article ,
RobertL wrote:
They used to promote DAB as "CD quality sound from your radio" until the advertising standards authority stopped them.

Given the way so many 'pop' CDs are mastered these days perhaps they
should be allowed to use it again.

Perhaps I'm alone in finding that despite digital techniques offering the
possibility of far better sound quality than analogue ever could, the
reality is the way it is implemented in both recording and broadcast means
the end results are often very inferior.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
RobertL scribeth thus
On Sunday, October 21, 2012 9:48:20 AM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
The highest DAB bitrate is normally on Radio 3, and that gives the
equivalent to a good quality cassette deck, assuming you have a good
signal.

They used to promote DAB as "CD quality sound from your radio" until the
advertising standards authority stopped them.

Robert


I borrowed the wife's motah to go to London on Saturday to collect some
equipment and it was interesting to compare FM and DAB on the move and I
must say that with Radio 3 there wasn't a great deal in it but most
every other station for instance classic FM sounded much better on FM
apart from a bit of multipath faffing around near the Blackwall tunnel..

I came back thru mid Essex and there it was dropping in an out a bit
some of the time especially where it got a bit undulating ...
--
Tony Sayer

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 21:28:04 +0100, Adam Funk wrote:

... I was under the impression the analogue radio signals were going to
be turned off in the near future.

A few BBC Local/Regional stations have recently stopped transmitting on
their AM frequencies as a "trial".

The great noise a while back was about the proposed removal of the BBC
National stations from FM, ie BBC Radios 1 to 4. The released frequencies
would then be made available for more community/local stations.

It does seem to have gone very quiet on this, which might mean they have
dropped the idea or that they'll just sneak it in and say we told you X
years ago and the (not widely publicised) consultations happenend between
Y and Z.

The biggest thing wrong with the proposals was how they counted "digital
listening" which had to be over x% to trigger the switch off. They
included *all* digital forms so podcast downloads, listen again,
streaming, radio via DSAT or DTTY and DAB. Most of which are not
practical replacements for FM.

Then of course where is the money going to come from to run all these new
stations? Radio struggles for money at the best of times, see the number
of stations that have dropped the DAB platform in recent years or just
been absorbed into groups running many stations where the only difference
between them is the ads played out by the automation.

Do you guys think the complaints about DAB quality will affect that?

"Consumer choice" more stations available must be good. The fact that DAB
coverage is pathetic, receivers are expensive and the sound quality
dubious isn't relelvant. It does appear that real "consumer choice" isn't
choosing DAB, except by default. We have a DAB radio but it's useless for
DAB, there is no signal here. The only reason we have it is because of
the other wanted features of the set. It's sale will have counted to the
sales figures of DAB sets of course.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 21/10/2012 09:48, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 21:28:04 +0100, Adam Funk wrote:

... I was under the impression the analogue radio signals were going to
be turned off in the near future.

A few BBC Local/Regional stations have recently stopped transmitting on
their AM frequencies as a "trial".

The great noise a while back was about the proposed removal of the BBC
National stations from FM, ie BBC Radios 1 to 4. The released frequencies
would then be made available for more community/local stations.

It does seem to have gone very quiet on this, which might mean they have
dropped the idea or that they'll just sneak it in and say we told you X
years ago and the (not widely publicised) consultations happenend between
Y and Z.

The biggest thing wrong with the proposals was how they counted "digital
listening" which had to be over x% to trigger the switch off. They
included *all* digital forms so podcast downloads, listen again,
streaming, radio via DSAT or DTTY and DAB. Most of which are not
practical replacements for FM.

They also neglected to count sales of conventional tuners wherever they
could. So many mobile phones ship with a FM radio - apparently they
don't count.

Do you guys think the complaints about DAB quality will affect that?

"Consumer choice" more stations available must be good. The fact that DAB
coverage is pathetic, receivers are expensive and the sound quality
dubious isn't relelvant. It does appear that real "consumer choice" isn't
choosing DAB, except by default. We have a DAB radio but it's useless for
DAB, there is no signal here. The only reason we have it is because of
the other wanted features of the set. It's sale will have counted to the
sales figures of DAB sets of course.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

If it's quality gear, there's a very active vintage hi-fi market on eBay.

" wrote in news:97f399dc-fcf7-42f8-ac29-
:

If it's quality gear, there's a very active vintage hi-fi market on eBay.


Interesting how some brand names that we used to admire have disappeared. I
could only lust after Technics, Pioneer, etc Ended up with Sanuisi and
Rotel

On 19/10/2012 17:23, DerbyBorn wrote:
" wrote in news:97f399dc-fcf7-42f8-ac29-
:

If it's quality gear, there's a very active vintage hi-fi market on eBay.


Interesting how some brand names that we used to admire have disappeared. I
could only lust after Technics, Pioneer, etc Ended up with Sanuisi and
Rotel

Some of the Rotel stuff was actually pretty good budget HiFi.
My wifes old Rotel amp from ~1980 still powers our village hall.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article , Martin Brown |||newspa
scribeth thus
On 19/10/2012 17:23, DerbyBorn wrote:
" wrote in news:97f399dc-fcf7-42f8-ac29-
:

If it's quality gear, there's a very active vintage hi-fi market on eBay.


Interesting how some brand names that we used to admire have disappeared. I
could only lust after Technics, Pioneer, etc Ended up with Sanuisi and
Rotel

Some of the Rotel stuff was actually pretty good budget HiFi.
My wifes old Rotel amp from ~1980 still powers our village hall.



"The"" fm tuner site has to be American but then again FM was invented
there...

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/
--
Tony Sayer

On 20/10/2012 08:30, Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/10/2012 17:23, DerbyBorn wrote:
" wrote in news:97f399dc-fcf7-42f8-ac29-
:

If it's quality gear, there's a very active vintage hi-fi market on
eBay.


Interesting how some brand names that we used to admire have
disappeared. I
could only lust after Technics, Pioneer, etc Ended up with Sanuisi and
Rotel

Some of the Rotel stuff was actually pretty good budget HiFi.
My wifes old Rotel amp from ~1980 still powers our village hall.

My Rotel RCD965BX CD player was always rated as one of the top players
of its time as well - so they certainly made some relatively decent kit.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:
If it's quality gear, there's a very active vintage hi-fi market on
eBay.

Mmmm.

Checks loft. Yep I still have mine.

--
Adam

"Adam Funk" wrote in message ...

We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?

--

Well in my bit of East Sussex, although we are less than 50 miles from
London we cannot receive DAB, so FM & AM are the only options

AWEM

In article ,
Andrew Mawson wrote:

Well in my bit of East Sussex, although we are less than 50 miles from
London we cannot receive DAB, so FM & AM are the only options

Where slightly more accurately? I have a DAB radio in the car and
reception is very good round and about London. But it does have a decent
aerial.

--
*A nest isn't empty until all their stuff is out of the attic

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Where slightly more accurately? I have a DAB radio in the car and
reception is very good round and about London. But it does have a decent
aerial.


My new car has a DAB radio - and it's pretty pathetic tbh.

I can get BBC stations, and a load of absolute radio stations (which are
pretty poor). Planet Rock (can be ok), talksport (not interested) and a
couple of christian radio stations (I'm beyond saving by even the most
dedicated radio preacher :-)).

Radio5/fivelive is handy (but mono), as AM reception is crap. I tend to
listen to R2 on dab but I'm surprised at how often it drops from R2 DAB to
R2 FM. On my drive from Folkestone to Canterbury it can sometimes do it
a couple of times (at the Canterbury end of the journey).

If I come home via Dover it loses all DAB signal from the top of the
hill all the way down into Dover and then intermittently along the sea
front until you hit the bottom of the A20 heading up out of Dover.

All in all, pretty crap.

It did let me listen to the olympics on radio 5 while I was driving around
dorset though - that was handy

Darren

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Andrew Mawson wrote:

Well in my bit of East Sussex, although we are less than 50 miles from
London we cannot receive DAB, so FM & AM are the only options

Where slightly more accurately? I have a DAB radio in the car and
reception is very good round and about London. But it does have a decent
aerial.


--

TN33 in the bottom of the shallow valley of the River Brede. We also only
just get digital TV from a local repeater with frequent pixilation when
the signal fades

AWEM

Why should it not be?

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
We've been cleaning out the storage areas of the house, & have found a
Technics AM/FM analogue tuner (hi-fi component) from the late 1990s,
which we subsequently replaced with a DAB component.

Before I take it apart to play with it, throw it out, or both --- is
the analogue tuner ever likely to be of any use again?