With pv solar panels it makes sense to heat the water by electric when the
sun is shining. Easy enough to switch on the immersion heater when you're
about but that's not always the case. Is there a cost effective way of
automatically switching on the immersion heater when the solar panels are
producing enough electricity?

On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 12:13:27 +0100, "mark" wrote:

With pv solar panels it makes sense to heat the water by electric when the
sun is shining. Easy enough to switch on the immersion heater when you're
about but that's not always the case. Is there a cost effective way of
automatically switching on the immersion heater when the solar panels are
producing enough electricity?

Yes.

Don't you feel you have expropriated enough cash from the general public already
with the outrageous FIT payments you are already receiving?


--

On 09/10/2012 12:13, mark wrote:
With pv solar panels it makes sense to heat the water by electric when the
sun is shining. Easy enough to switch on the immersion heater when you're
about but that's not always the case. Is there a cost effective way of
automatically switching on the immersion heater when the solar panels are
producing enough electricity?



"producing enough electricity' hahahahaha

"The Other Mike" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 12:13:27 +0100, "mark"
wrote:

With pv solar panels it makes sense to heat the water by electric when the
sun is shining. Easy enough to switch on the immersion heater when you're
about but that's not always the case. Is there a cost effective way of
automatically switching on the immersion heater when the solar panels are
producing enough electricity?

Yes.

Don't you feel you have expropriated enough cash from the general public
already
with the outrageous FIT payments you are already receiving?

Certainly not if there is scope for more.

http://solarimmersionheaterswitch.co...witch-mark-ii/

http://www.solarho****erswitch.co.uk/

On 09/10/2012 13:05, mark wrote:

Don't you feel you have expropriated enough cash from the general public
already
with the outrageous FIT payments you are already receiving?

Certainly not if there is scope for more.



Does teh FIT give you more money for electricity consumed by yourself
than for electricity fed into the system?

GB wrote:
Does teh FIT give you more money for electricity consumed by yourself
than for electricity fed into the system?

As I understand it, the FIT tariff is an additional payment based on 50% of the system theoretical capacity. If so, it takes no account of electricity generated or consumed.

There are separate prices for energy bought and sold. It costs more to buy electricity than to forego the sale of your own.

In article , The Other Mike
writes
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 12:13:27 +0100, "mark"
wrote:

With pv solar panels it makes sense to heat the water by electric when the
sun is shining. Easy enough to switch on the immersion heater when you're
about but that's not always the case. Is there a cost effective way of
automatically switching on the immersion heater when the solar panels are
producing enough electricity?

Yes.

Wouldn't the theft be most effective if the PV power was sold to the
network at markup and the water heated with real electricity during
shade time (or gas, if available, at a third the cost of that)?
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:13:27 +0100, mark wrote:
Is there a cost effective
way of automatically switching on the immersion heater when the solar
panels are producing enough electricity?

Yes; you need a Crookes radiometer, a potato, duct tape, and some bell
wire.

wrote:

GB wrote:
Does teh FIT give you more money for electricity consumed by yourself
than for electricity fed into the system?

As I understand it, the FIT tariff is an additional payment based on 50% of the system theoretical capacity. If so, it takes no account of electricity generated or consumed.

There are separate prices for energy bought and sold. It costs more to buy electricity than to forego the sale of your own.

Partly right. You can find all the details on line
http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainability/Environment/fits/tariff-tables/Pages/index.aspx

I will give figures for my installation. Current ones will be
different.

The FIT pays £0.454 per kWh generated. It doesn't matter what you
do with it.

In addition, you are paid for exported units, which are deemed to
be 50% of what you generate (unless you have a smart meter), at
£0.032.

Using this same assumption, you consume half of what you
generate, saving your daytime rate of £0.096.

So, the big money is from the FIT, it is also to your advantage
if you can maximise your use and minimise export. As these
numbers are a lot smaller, it is not worth spending much on
clever kit to achieve this.

When smart meters are fitted, it is anticipated that export
payment will then be for actual metered exported power.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Chris J Dixon wrote:
wrote:

GB wrote:
Does teh FIT give you more money for electricity consumed by yourself
than for electricity fed into the system?
As I understand it, the FIT tariff is an additional payment based on 50% of the system theoretical capacity. If so, it takes no account of electricity generated or consumed.

There are separate prices for energy bought and sold. It costs more to buy electricity than to forego the sale of your own.

Partly right. You can find all the details on line
http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainability/Environment/fits/tariff-tables/Pages/index.aspx

I will give figures for my installation. Current ones will be
different.

The FIT pays £0.454 per kWh generated. It doesn't matter what you
do with it.

In addition, you are paid for exported units, which are deemed to
be 50% of what you generate (unless you have a smart meter), at
£0.032.

so the total 'value' of a unit of electricity (that can be generated by
a nuclear power station at £0.09 taht requires no extra backup with
fossil that will add at least another 2p to the renewable), is 45.4 +
16 p= 61p plus about 2p to backup netting about 63p worth of cost to
teh consumer for 9p's worth of electricity.

harry is more of a **** than I thought. His panels cost us 7 times what
they are worth.




--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , The Other Mike
writes
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 12:13:27 +0100, "mark"
wrote:

With pv solar panels it makes sense to heat the water by electric when
the
sun is shining. Easy enough to switch on the immersion heater when you're
about but that's not always the case. Is there a cost effective way of
automatically switching on the immersion heater when the solar panels are
producing enough electricity?

Yes.

Wouldn't the theft be most effective if the PV power was sold to the
network at markup and the water heated with real electricity during shade
time (or gas, if available, at a third the cost of that)?
--
fred


No because the real electricity costs about 12p unit and the supplier only
pays about 3p for exported units.


mark

Chris J Dixon wrote:
...you are paid for exported units, which are deemed to be ....

Does the word 'deemed' mean payment is independent of what you actually generate.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Chris J Dixon wrote:
wrote:

GB wrote:
Does teh FIT give you more money for electricity consumed by yourself
than for electricity fed into the system?
As I understand it, the FIT tariff is an additional payment based on 50%
of the system theoretical capacity. If so, it takes no account of
electricity generated or consumed.

There are separate prices for energy bought and sold. It costs more to
buy electricity than to forego the sale of your own.

Partly right. You can find all the details on line
http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustainability/Environment/fits/tariff-tables/Pages/index.aspx

I will give figures for my installation. Current ones will be
different.

The FIT pays £0.454 per kWh generated. It doesn't matter what you
do with it.

In addition, you are paid for exported units, which are deemed to
be 50% of what you generate (unless you have a smart meter), at
£0.032.

so the total 'value' of a unit of electricity (that can be generated by a
nuclear power station at £0.09 taht requires no extra backup with fossil
that will add at least another 2p to the renewable), is 45.4 + 16 p= 61p
plus about 2p to backup netting about 63p worth of cost to teh consumer
for 9p's worth of electricity.

harry is more of a **** than I thought. His panels cost us 7 times what
they are worth.


Probably more than 7 if he doesn't have a smart meter. On the old dial
meters for every unit generated by the panels the meter goes back a unit.
Type 'meter running backwards' into youtube for numerous examples.


mark

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:12:53 PM UTC+1, mark wrote:
With pv solar panels it makes sense to heat the water by electric when the

sun is shining. Easy enough to switch on the immersion heater when you're

about but that's not always the case. Is there a cost effective way of

automatically switching on the immersion heater when the solar panels are

producing enough electricity?

Run a water tube behind the solar panels and you'll get rather more heat that way


NT

wrote:

Chris J Dixon wrote:
...you are paid for exported units, which are deemed to be ....

Does the word 'deemed' mean payment is independent of what you actually generate.

No. Read again what you have snipped:

The FIT pays £0.454 per kWh generated. It doesn't matter what you
do with it.

It directly depends on what you generate.

In addition, you are paid for exported units, which are deemed to
be 50% of what you generate (unless you have a smart meter), at
£0.032.

Again, this amount depends upon what you generate, not what you
actually export.

Using this same assumption, you consume half of what you
generate, saving your daytime rate of £0.096.

So, following my meter reading in June, I had generated 1136 kWh
in that quarter.

For this I was paid 1136 x £0.454 = £515.74 for the FIT.

Additionally I received 1136 x 0.5 x £0.032 = £18.18 for the
amount of power I was deemed (ie considered) to have exported.

Assuming this 50 % export, then I would have saved 1136 x 0.5 x
£0.096 = £108.59 by not having to pay for peak rate electricity
which I actually used.

So, If I obtained a theoretically ideal piece of electrical
control equipment which was able to ensure that, when generating,
I always used exactly that amount, with no wastage and no
additional consumption, then I would be using 100%, and not
exporting at all.

This would mean that, in the example above, I would have been
making use of power worth £108.59.

However, if you are using it to, say, heat water instead of using
gas, then your saving is only what the much cheaper gas would
have cost you. Additionally, the real-life situation is such that
the ideal is not achieved.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Chris J Dixon wrote:
No. Read again what you have snipped:

Thanks for the clear explanation. I previously read exported electricity wasn't metered. I somehow ended up thinking payment was based on installed capacity.

Now you've explained payments calculated from generated electricity, I presume the meter has to be tamper-proof. Is that true?

wrote:


Thanks for the clear explanation. I previously read exported electricity wasn't metered. I somehow ended up thinking payment was based on installed capacity.

You might have been confused by other discussions about solar
thermal, which is soon to have a payment scheme of that nature.

Now you've explained payments calculated from generated electricity, I presume the meter has to be tamper-proof. Is that true?

Naturally.

As a householder, you have to use an installer on the MCS list
http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/

And the component parts have to be approved by them, and/ or your
electricity supplier, as appropriate.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Oct 9, 12:12*pm, "mark" wrote:
With pv solar panels it makes sense to heat the water by electric when the
sun is shining. Easy enough to switch on the immersion heater when you're
about but that's not always the case. Is there a cost effective way of
automatically switching on the immersion heater when the solar panels are
producing enough electricity?

Just Google solar immersion heater switch.
http://solarimmersionheaterswitch.co...FaXKtAodh0MAIQ

On Oct 9, 12:12*pm, "mark" wrote:
With pv solar panels it makes sense to heat the water by electric when the
sun is shining. Easy enough to switch on the immersion heater when you're
about but that's not always the case. Is there a cost effective way of
automatically switching on the immersion heater when the solar panels are
producing enough electricity?

You will probably find the device uneconomic. The savings are not
great as you can store only a limited amount of hot water.

On Oct 9, 1:19*pm, GB wrote:
On 09/10/2012 13:05, mark wrote:

Don't you feel you have expropriated enough cash from the general public
already
with the outrageous FIT payments you are already receiving?

Certainly not if there is scope for more.

Does teh FIT give you more money for electricity consumed by yourself
than for electricity fed into the system?

The FIT pays for all electricity generated.
It doesn't matter whether it is "self consumed " or not.
It is still fossil fuel saved.

On Oct 9, 3:24*pm, wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote:
...you are paid for exported units, which are deemed to be ....

Does the word 'deemed' mean payment is independent of what you actually generate.

In this case deemed means guessed at.

On Oct 9, 5:26*pm, wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote:
No. Read again what you have snipped:

Thanks for the clear explanation. I previously read exported electricity wasn't metered. I somehow ended up thinking payment was based on installed capacity.

Now you've explained payments calculated from generated electricity, I presume the meter has to be tamper-proof. Is that true?

The meter associated withe PV is exactly the same as the same as the
one you already have.

Interesting debate on commercial solar panels and domestic solar panels.