http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...near-them.html

Arfa

On 12/09/2012 15:36, Arfa Daily wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...near-them.html


Arfa


"I’ve since heard dozens of similar stories from nurses, farmers,
panel-beaters, civil servants, businessmen and forestry workers across
the world, from New South Wales to Sweden and Pembrokeshire."

That simply proves how safe these wind turbines are. There must be tens
of thousands of mills around the world, and yet the Daily Idiocy can
only find a few dozen cases of people falling ill coincidentally when
the mills were installed.

On 12/09/2012 15:36, Arfa Daily wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...near-them.html

It is just the sort of hysterical panic reporting of hypochondriacs and
malingerers that you expect from a clueless red top.

I reckon a fair number of these cases are self induced opposite of the
placebo effect - though the symptoms are real enough.

Although I do have some sympathy for Jane Davies who for my money
described fairly accurately the effect and sounds of being downwind and
in the wrong position where wind shear induced touchdown of the spiral
pressure wave from the blade tips occurs.

In every direction except downwind there is almost no audible noise.

I support Heaton-Harris in wanting to get a 2km set back on windfarms
from significant habitation (especially in the prevailing wind
downstream direction).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

GB wrote:
On 12/09/2012 15:36, Arfa Daily wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...near-them.html



Arfa


"Ive since heard dozens of similar stories from nurses, farmers,
panel-beaters, civil servants, businessmen and forestry workers across
the world, from New South Wales to Sweden and Pembrokeshire."

That simply proves how safe these wind turbines are. There must be tens
of thousands of mills around the world, and yet the Daily Idiocy can
only find a few dozen cases of people falling ill coincidentally when
the mills were installed.


Most farms in other bigger countries are not near people.

Whenever they are problems occur.

Daily mail article is pants, but the problems are real enough.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

Martin Brown wrote:
On 12/09/2012 15:36, Arfa Daily wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...near-them.html


It is just the sort of hysterical panic reporting of hypochondriacs and
malingerers that you expect from a clueless red top.

I reckon a fair number of these cases are self induced opposite of the
placebo effect - though the symptoms are real enough.

Although I do have some sympathy for Jane Davies who for my money
described fairly accurately the effect and sounds of being downwind and
in the wrong position where wind shear induced touchdown of the spiral
pressure wave from the blade tips occurs.

In every direction except downwind there is almost no audible noise.


If you bothered to READ the article, its the inaudible noise that is the
problem.

That gets transmitted through the ground as much as the air.

I support Heaton-Harris in wanting to get a 2km set back on windfarms
from significant habitation (especially in the prevailing wind
downstream direction).

In ANY direction. The wind shifts you know.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

I wondered how long it would be before someone found a new ailment to blame
on these things.
Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...near-them.html

Arfa

Brian Gaff wrote:
I wondered how long it would be before someone found a new ailment to blame
on these things.
Brian

Why, if they are so benign, do people bother to even look?


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

OK so are we saying that our current technology cannot make quiet wind
turbines? The one mentioned is surely going to be on a smaller scale than
some of the big farms. One issue about wind farms could be that the beat
between turbines being slightly out of phase when heard at a distance could
be a factor for sleep issues. Certainly a while ago problems were pinpointed
in pumps for large gas mains which were creating vibrations inside houses,
and this was i believe tackled successfully by the industry, so why not
this?
Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...near-them.html

Arfa

Brian Gaff wrote:
OK so are we saying that our current technology cannot make quiet wind
turbines?
Yes.

We can't make quiet aeroplanes, or quiet roads or railways either.

The one mentioned is surely going to be on a smaller scale than
some of the big farms. One issue about wind farms could be that the beat
between turbines being slightly out of phase when heard at a distance could
be a factor for sleep issues. Certainly a while ago problems were pinpointed
in pumps for large gas mains which were creating vibrations inside houses,
and this was i believe tackled successfully by the industry, so why not
this?

Money.

Its almost impossible to create a wind turbine that doesn't get tip and
blade vortices and these interfere with the poles giving a 3 per
revolution thump They also interfere with any vertical wind shear there is.

And the lower the frequency the less it gets absorbed by the air, and
the better it transmits through the ground.

You cannot solve fundamental problems with a technology by adding more
technology.

Possible if you had them up 5000 feet in te air the infra-sound wouldbt
carry. But you certainly wouldn't need a third runaway at heathrow..

I suppose you could make a soundproofed ducted fan assembly. Make them
even more expensive than harry's solar panels.

They still wouldn#'t generate any useful electricity though.


Brian



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:45:15 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I wondered how long it would be before someone found a new ailment to blame
on these things.
Brian

It's an ill wind &etc.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Graham. wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:45:15 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I wondered how long it would be before someone found a new ailment to blame
on these things.
Brian

It's an ill wind &etc.

http://www.europesillwind.org/films/...ll-wind-2.html


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Sep 12, 5:01*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:
OK so are we saying that our current technology cannot make quiet wind
turbines?

Yes.

We can't make quiet aeroplanes, or quiet roads or railways either.

No.

The secret is in anisotropics.

Rail-road-beds are laid out in mathematically precise manners that
seem purposed for the transmission of noise. for instance:

The sleepers are all set at the same distance so that when the passing
locomotive drags down the air from just above it, it forms a tunnel
that transmits sound escapement immediately behind it. This sound is
construct out of the weight of the train and the distances in the
roadbed that can form harmonics.

By extension then the same is true for roads.

They too are constructed with a lot of careful attention paid to
installing acoustic harmonics. Widths of roads, depths of beds, spaces
of lamp posts, white lines, heights of curbs etc.

Only in very few instances is attention paid to baffles.

The exact opposite is true in nature, where for instance, a tree is
made of baffles a coppice takes on the shape of aerofoils and
everything about them vchanges with the wind.

One issue about wind farms *could be that the beat between turbines
being slightly out of phase when heard at a distance could
be a factor for sleep issues.

A while ago, problems were pinpointed
in pumps for large gas mains which were creating vibrations inside houses,
and this was tackled successfully by the industry, so why not
this?

Money.

Know how.

Wind farms are still going through their genesis. It is rather like
the motor car industry in the early 1920's and the steam revolution an
hundred years earlier.

It isn't just money.

The biggest hindrance to the acceptability of wind farms is the noise.
So solving the issue would resolve a lot of the other problems
preventing investors getting a profit.

Its almost impossible to create a wind turbine that doesn't get tip and
blade vortices and these interfere with the poles giving a 3 per
revolution thump.

Since these things are based on aeronautical designs, it isn't
surprising that architects and engineers designing them have paid
little attention to baffling them.

When such blades are attached to aircraft they tend to get the
aircraft out of the way of the problem. And the less wind resistance
involved the faster they can do that.

The problems of vortice shedding are well known though and it is very
likely that there are several universities already heavily funded by
the industry to look for solutions.

It will probably turn out to be a matter of building a ring fence of
some sort around the base of the tower.

*They also interfere with any vertical wind shear there is.

Vertical wind sheer?

Do you mean the clear air turbulence associated with that?
Because vertical wind shear at a plant would mean the turbine was not
running.

And the lower the frequency, the less it gets absorbed by the air
and the better it transmits through the ground.

Almost.
You have fallen into the trap physicists the world over have fallen
into ever since so called red shift was invented to explain the before
and after effect first noticed with rail transport.

You have substituted condition for cause.
(Nice linear thinking though.)

You cannot solve fundamental problems with a technology by adding more
technology.

Quite. Take a look at the separate developments of the R100 and the
R101 airships.

One architect just bunged any old thing on top of the initial problems
and ended (literally ended) with a series of ever increasing problems.

The other just invented new physics.

Possible if you had them up 5000 feet in the air *the infra-sound wouldn't
carry. But you certainly wouldn't need a third runaway at Heathrow..

I suppose you could *make a soundproofed ducted fan assembly.

That would be my first line of research. Wider channelling leading to
smaller diameter blades of the sort used in jet engines.

Make them even more expensive than harry's solar panels.
They still wouldn't generate any useful electricity though.

The price of solar panels is set to fall dramatically as new chemistry
takes on the problem of expensive rare earths. Already a university
team has invented iron based (IIRC) photo-voltaic elements.

But the point is valid they only work on breezy days. They get
switched off on stormy ones. I don't know when the off switch trips
but I imagine it is before gales become strong gales.

However with ducting, the chimney effect comes into play. And add to
that the ability to play with thermal induction by judicious painting
of the tunnels.

Then there is the real estate supplied by the tunnels. They could fly
adverts or they could house solar panels.

Not that the landscape would be improved. In fact everywhere would
look like a Screwfix or Amazon warehouse. In fact nearly everywhere
already does these days.

There used to be town centres when I was a lad. Then suburbs, then
countryside.

Today there are used to be town centres but we still have suburbs....
Just inside the shopping centres that fence off our countryside from
us all.

If you think I am being melodramatic, just go for a job interview at
one of those neo-prisons.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:49:56 +0100, Graham.
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:45:15 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I wondered how long it would be before someone found a new ailment to blame
on these things.
Brian

It's an ill wind &etc.

I'm suffering from that...

Inter alia.

--
Frank Erskine

Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Sep 12, 5:01 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:
OK so are we saying that our current technology cannot make quiet wind
turbines?
Yes.

We can't make quiet aeroplanes, or quiet roads or railways either.

No.

The secret is in anisotropics.


No it isnt.

Rail-road-beds are laid out in mathematically precise manners that
seem purposed for the transmission of noise. for instance:

The sleepers are all set at the same distance so that when the passing
locomotive drags down the air from just above it, it forms a tunnel
that transmits sound escapement immediately behind it. This sound is
construct out of the weight of the train and the distances in the
roadbed that can form harmonics.

By extension then the same is true for roads.

They too are constructed with a lot of careful attention paid to
installing acoustic harmonics. Widths of roads, depths of beds, spaces
of lamp posts, white lines, heights of curbs etc.


total utter cobblers.

Only in very few instances is attention paid to baffles.

The exact opposite is true in nature, where for instance, a tree is
made of baffles a coppice takes on the shape of aerofoils and
everything about them vchanges with the wind.


trees are very noisy in wind. Close up noisier than a wind turbine


One issue about wind farms could be that the beat between turbines
being slightly out of phase when heard at a distance could
be a factor for sleep issues.

A while ago, problems were pinpointed
in pumps for large gas mains which were creating vibrations inside houses,
and this was tackled successfully by the industry, so why not
this?
Money.

Know how.

Wind farms are still going through their genesis.

No they are not. They have been around for a thousand years.

It is rather like
the motor car industry in the early 1920's and the steam revolution an
hundred years earlier.

No it isn't. Its mutton dressed up as lamb. Its like reintroducing the
horse and having to deal with the sound of metal hooves on tarmac and
steaming piles of dung.


It isn't just money.


Ni, its the sheer engineering impossibility of having a 2MW generator
fed from an anisotropic wind stream and not having it produce 20 KW of
sound energy.


The biggest hindrance to the acceptability of wind farms is the noise.

No it isnt. Its the fact that they produce **** all electricity and
cover huge land areas and do nithing to alleviate carbon emissions, and
even if they did, unless the chinese use them instead of the coal
stations they put up every week, it wont make any difference even if
they did, and of course there is little point in saving emissions
anyway, because they don't actually affect the climate very much if at
all. And they are ****ing expensive to no useful purpose.

The fact that they keep people awake all night and cause sever stress
induced conditions and kill birds bats and possibly whales, is just a bonus.



So solving the issue would resolve a lot of the other problems
preventing investors getting a profit.


No it wouldn't. Investors get a huge profit by virtue of painting
'renewable' on the side and getting fat subsidies.

Its almost impossible to create a wind turbine that doesn't get tip and
blade vortices and these interfere with the poles giving a 3 per
revolution thump.

Since these things are based on aeronautical designs, it isn't
surprising that architects and engineers designing them have paid
little attention to baffling them.


Is there no limit to the depths of your ignorance? Noise is wasted
power. Aeronautics engineers know this. They know how to eliminate as
much of the vortex shedding as is humanly possible and they do.

When such blades are attached to aircraft they tend to get the
aircraft out of the way of the problem. And the less wind resistance
involved the faster they can do that.

No **** sherlock.


The problems of vortice shedding are well known though and it is very
likely that there are several universities already heavily funded by
the industry to look for solutions.


There are no solutions dickhead. Its intrinsic to the way a wing works.


It will probably turn out to be a matter of building a ring fence of
some sort around the base of the tower.


Oh FFS they are already a million a megawatt (capacity)

They also interfere with any vertical wind shear there is.

Vertical wind sheer?


No vertical wind shear
..
Do you mean the clear air turbulence associated with that?

No.

Because vertical wind shear at a plant would mean the turbine was not
running.

Your ignorance plumbs even greater depths. Google 'boundary layer'

The wind moves faster higher up. The top blade experiences more force
than the bottom blade. So there is a constant flexing applied to the tower.


And the lower the frequency, the less it gets absorbed by the air
and the better it transmits through the ground.

Almost.
You have fallen into the trap physicists the world over have fallen
into ever since so called red shift was invented to explain the before
and after effect first noticed with rail transport.

You have substituted condition for cause.

No I havent

Low frequencies propagate further through air. Which is why thunder
rumbles and pop festivals sound all bass from a distance. And why wahles
use LF to talk at long distances


(Nice linear thinking though.)

You are a partronising **** as will as ingorant as dip****: I take it
you are employed as a shill by the renewables lobby?



You cannot solve fundamental problems with a technology by adding more
technology.

Quite. Take a look at the separate developments of the R100 and the
R101 airships.

One architect just bunged any old thing on top of the initial problems
and ended (literally ended) with a series of ever increasing problems.

The other just invented new physics.

You cant invent new physics and the R100 didnt invent any new physics.

The R1012 is the wind turbine. The R100 would be a nuclear power
station. Built to do a job at a price using standard engineering best
practice




Possible if you had them up 5000 feet in the air the infra-sound wouldn't
carry. But you certainly wouldn't need a third runaway at Heathrow..

I suppose you could make a soundproofed ducted fan assembly.

That would be my first line of research. Wider channelling leading to
smaller diameter blades of the sort used in jet engines.



Your ignorance still astounds. I am realising you haven't a clue about
engineering fluid dynamics cost accounting or physics.



Make them even more expensive than harry's solar panels.
They still wouldn't generate any useful electricity though.

The price of solar panels is set to fall dramatically as new chemistry
takes on the problem of expensive rare earths. Already a university
team has invented iron based (IIRC) photo-voltaic elements.


They said that about Fusion reactors 60 years ago.

But the point is valid they only work on breezy days. They get
switched off on stormy ones. I don't know when the off switch trips
but I imagine it is before gales become strong gales.

However with ducting, the chimney effect comes into play. And add to
that the ability to play with thermal induction by judicious painting
of the tunnels.


Can I have some of what you are smoking?


Then there is the real estate supplied by the tunnels. They could fly
adverts or they could house solar panels.


Oh FFS who wants to see a hoarding in te middle of an uninhabitable bit
of couintryside?

Not that the landscape would be improved. In fact everywhere would
look like a Screwfix or Amazon warehouse. In fact nearly everywhere
already does these days.


Not round here it doesn't. You should get out more

There used to be town centres when I was a lad. Then suburbs, then
countryside.

Today there are used to be town centres but we still have suburbs....
Just inside the shopping centres that fence off our countryside from
us all.

And you deserve to be kept there. Intelligence or an understanding of
real things is needful in the countryside. You wouldn't be safe.
Probably get savaged by an attack rabbit.


If you think I am being melodramatic, just go for a job interview at
one of those neo-prisons.


No thanks.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Sep 13, 1:31*am, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Sep 12, 5:01*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:
OK so are we saying that our current technology cannot make quiet wind
turbines?

Yes.

We can't make quiet aeroplanes, or quiet roads or railways either.

No.

The secret is in anisotropics.

Rail-road-beds are laid out in mathematically precise manners that
seem purposed for the transmission of noise. *for instance:

The sleepers are all set at the same distance so that when the passing
locomotive drags down the air from just above it, it forms a tunnel
that transmits sound escapement immediately behind it. This sound is
construct out of the weight of the train and the distances in the
roadbed that can form harmonics.


The noise issue is just an excuse.
Do the owners of wind turbines suffer from these complaints/diseases?
I imagine in many cases they live nearer to them than anyone else.

The NIMBYs are just part of an envy cult (as with solar panels).

Now if they had to put up with coal mines/power stations like lots of
others that would make 'em whine.

Nuclear waste should be buried in Surrey.

I have high hopes they will be fracking for shale gas in the SE soon.
Excellent news.Poison a few of their chalk streams.
They will learn then the benefit of mining industry and power
generation V. a few windturbines.

On 13/09/2012 01:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:
....
Wind farms are still going through their genesis.

No they are not. They have been around for a thousand years....

Be fair. Wind generation of electricity using this technology is only a
bit over 60 years old.

Colin Bignell

In article
,
harry wrote:



The noise issue is just an excuse.
Do the owners of wind turbines suffer from these complaints/diseases?
I imagine in many cases they live nearer to them than anyone else.


most owners are companies whose directors live hundreds of miles away.

I've stayed ata farm house where there was a wind generator, horrible
noisy thing - far worrse tahn the B road alongside which I live.

The NIMBYs are just part of an envy cult (as with solar panels).

Now if they had to put up with coal mines/power stations like lots of
others that would make 'em whine.

Nuclear waste should be buried in Surrey.

Why not?

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Sep 13, 1:31 am, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Sep 12, 5:01 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:
OK so are we saying that our current technology cannot make quiet
wind
turbines?

Yes.

We can't make quiet aeroplanes, or quiet roads or railways either.

No.

The secret is in anisotropics.

Rail-road-beds are laid out in mathematically precise manners that
seem purposed for the transmission of noise. for instance:

The sleepers are all set at the same distance so that when the passing
locomotive drags down the air from just above it, it forms a tunnel
that transmits sound escapement immediately behind it. This sound is
construct out of the weight of the train and the distances in the
roadbed that can form harmonics.


The noise issue is just an excuse.
Do the owners of wind turbines suffer from these complaints/diseases?
I imagine in many cases they live nearer to them than anyone else.


What utter crap. They will live as far from them as they can.



The NIMBYs are just part of an envy cult (as with solar panels).


Envy ?? Why on earth would anyone be envious of anyone else who had ruined
the look of their house by gluing those ridiculous black football fields on
the roof ? And isn't it odd that the only people who use the acronym "NIMBY"
are those who either don't have a back yard to put a windmill in, or are
fortunate enough to live somewhere that is 'protected' by the local MP or
industrialist or whoever with influence, so that they know that this crap is
never going to be built near them.



Now if they had to put up with coal mines/power stations like lots of
others that would make 'em whine.

Nuclear waste should be buried in Surrey.

I have high hopes they will be fracking for shale gas in the SE soon.
Excellent news.Poison a few of their chalk streams.
They will learn then the benefit of mining industry and power
generation V. a few windturbines.



What a ridiculously smug attitude.

Arfa

Nightjar wrote:
On 13/09/2012 01:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:
...
Wind farms are still going through their genesis.

No they are not. They have been around for a thousand years....

Be fair. Wind generation of electricity using this technology is only a
bit over 60 years old.

red herring

Colin Bignell



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Sep 13, 9:48*am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...





On Sep 13, 1:31 am, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Sep 12, 5:01 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:
OK so are we saying that our current technology cannot make quiet
wind
turbines?

Yes.

We can't make quiet aeroplanes, or quiet roads or railways either.

No.

The secret is in anisotropics.

Rail-road-beds are laid out in mathematically precise manners that
seem purposed for the transmission of noise. *for instance:

The sleepers are all set at the same distance so that when the passing
locomotive drags down the air from just above it, it forms a tunnel
that transmits sound escapement immediately behind it. This sound is
construct out of the weight of the train and the distances in the
roadbed that can form harmonics.

The noise issue is just an excuse.
Do the owners of wind turbines suffer from these complaints/diseases?
I imagine in many cases *they live nearer to them than anyone else.

What utter crap. They will live as far from them as they can.



The NIMBYs are just part of an envy cult (as with solar panels).

Envy ?? Why on earth would anyone be envious of anyone else who had ruined
the look of their house by gluing those ridiculous black football fields on
the roof ? And isn't it odd that the only people who use the acronym "NIMBY"
are those who either don't have a back yard to put a windmill in, or are
fortunate enough to live somewhere that is 'protected' by the local MP or
industrialist or whoever with influence, so that they know that this crap is
never going to be built near them.



Now if they had to put up with coal mines/power stations like lots of
others that would make 'em whine.

Nuclear waste should be buried in Surrey.

I have high hopes they will be fracking for shale gas in the SE soon.
Excellent news.Poison a few of their chalk streams.
They will learn then the benefit *of mining industry and power
generation V. a few windturbines.

What a ridiculously smug attitude.

???????????????

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:36:45 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...near-them.html

"He put up a 64ft-high wind turbine which, though on his own land,
stood just 300 yards from the Jackson family’s home."

300 yards? Neurotic cow.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:36:45 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...near-them.html

"He put up a 64ft-high wind turbine which, though on his own land,
stood just 300 yards from the Jackson familys home."

300 yards? Neurotic cow.

TYry putting up a 10 storey high structure on any land anywhere rural
that is 300 yards from anyone else's property and see how far you get.

Unless its a ****ing windmill, of course.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:48:47 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

And isn't it odd that the only people who use the acronym "NIMBY"
are those who either don't have a back yard to put a windmill in, or are
fortunate enough to live somewhere that is 'protected' by the local MP or
industrialist or whoever with influence, so that they know that this crap is
never going to be built near them.

********. I'd love one.
Free power some of the time, suits me.

In article , Grimly
Curmudgeon scribeth thus
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:36:45 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...arms-Are-wind-
farms-saving-killing-A-provocative-investigation-claims-thousands-people-
falling-sick-live-near-them.html

"He put up a 64ft-high wind turbine which, though on his own land,
stood just 300 yards from the Jackson familys home."

300 yards? Neurotic cow.


I had to work next to a wind farm the other week. Its not that noisy as
such but it is, dunno quite how to put it, shall we say "Unsettling"

Bloody glad I don't have to live near one...

--
Tony Sayer

On 14 Sep,
tony sayer wrote:

I had to work next to a wind farm the other week. Its not that noisy as
such but it is, dunno quite how to put it, shall we say "Unsettling"

Bloody glad I don't have to live near one...


I went to one near here a couple of years ago. Standing underneath the beast
there were frequent pings as the blades struck insects (it was the summer).
Standing at the edge of the field it was in, about as far away from it as it
was tall, the prominent noise was the wind in the nearby hedge.

We've a new one much nearer. I've only so far seen one operating, I don't
think they have finished commissioning. I'll report on what it sounds like
once it is running for real.

When they started erecting it, it looked *hugh*. Now (3 months later) it just
blends in to the scenery. They are twice as tall as I thought they were to
be, twice as high as the nearby powerline from the gas turbine power station.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I had to work next to a wind farm the other week. Its not that noisy as
such but it is, dunno quite how to put it, shall we say "Unsettling"

Bloody glad I don't have to live near one...

I slept in a caravan near enough underneath several of them last year for
a couple of days. Some might say it explains things. ;-)

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I had to work next to a wind farm the other week. Its not that noisy as
such but it is, dunno quite how to put it, shall we say "Unsettling"

Bloody glad I don't have to live near one...

I slept in a caravan near enough underneath several of them last year for
a couple of days. Some might say it explains things. ;-)

The infrasound gets worse inside a building

Its the sound you DONT hear that buggers you.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

wrote in message ...
On 14 Sep,
tony sayer wrote:

I had to work next to a wind farm the other week. Its not that noisy as
such but it is, dunno quite how to put it, shall we say "Unsettling"

Bloody glad I don't have to live near one...


I went to one near here a couple of years ago. Standing underneath the
beast
there were frequent pings as the blades struck insects (it was the
summer).
Standing at the edge of the field it was in, about as far away from it as
it
was tall, the prominent noise was the wind in the nearby hedge.


But it's not audible noise that's the problem. It's infrasound below the
minimum frequency response of the human ear, which is probably the cause of
Tony feeling "unsettled" and the theme behind the article that's being
commented on in this thread ...



We've a new one much nearer. I've only so far seen one operating, I don't
think they have finished commissioning. I'll report on what it sounds like
once it is running for real.


What it 'sounds' like is not what's at issue

Arfa



When they started erecting it, it looked *hugh*. Now (3 months later) it
just
blends in to the scenery. They are twice as tall as I thought they were to
be, twice as high as the nearby powerline from the gas turbine power
station.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

On 14/09/2012 23:44, wrote:
On 14 Sep,
tony sayer wrote:

I had to work next to a wind farm the other week. Its not that noisy as
such but it is, dunno quite how to put it, shall we say "Unsettling"

Bloody glad I don't have to live near one...


I went to one near here a couple of years ago. Standing underneath the beast
there were frequent pings as the blades struck insects (it was the summer).
Standing at the edge of the field it was in, about as far away from it as it
was tall, the prominent noise was the wind in the nearby hedge.

We've a new one much nearer. I've only so far seen one operating, I don't
think they have finished commissioning. I'll report on what it sounds like
once it is running for real.

The only place where the noise can be obtrusive is an oval patch usually
between 1km and 2km downwind where wind shear causes the wake vortex of
the blade tips interacting with the support to touch down. The slower
air behind the blades will also turn condensing in the right conditions
which makes it easier to see where to go and stand.

When they started erecting it, it looked *hugh*. Now (3 months later) it just
blends in to the scenery. They are twice as tall as I thought they were to
be, twice as high as the nearby powerline from the gas turbine power station.


I don't normally find them obtrusive but the ones they have just put up
in front of the North York Moors near Middlesbrough look a right mess.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Sep 14, 9:33*pm, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Grimly
Curmudgeon scribeth thus

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:36:45 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl.../Wind-farms-Ar....
farms-saving-killing-A-provocative-investigation-claims-thousands-people-
falling-sick-live-near-them.html

"He put up a 64ft-high wind turbine which, though on his own land,
stood just 300 yards from the Jackson family’s home."

300 yards? Neurotic cow.

I had to work next to a wind farm *the other week. Its not that noisy as
such but it is, dunno quite how to put it, shall we say "Unsettling"

Bloody glad I don't have to live near one...

--
Tony Sayer

Superstition?

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I had to work next to a wind farm the other week. Its not that noisy as
such but it is, dunno quite how to put it, shall we say "Unsettling"

Bloody glad I don't have to live near one...

I slept in a caravan near enough underneath several of them last year for
a couple of days. Some might say it explains things. ;-)

The infrasound gets worse inside a building

Its the sound you DONT hear that buggers you.




Yes and I very much suspect that the sound thats left out of "noise
meter" readings.....

I don't think that any of them go down that low in fact no audio
equipment I know of does, they tend to filter off below 20 Hz just
calling it wasted audio...


--
Tony Sayer

In article
..com, harry scribeth thus
On Sep 14, 9:33Â*pm, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Grimly
Curmudgeon scribeth thus

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:36:45 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl.../Wind-farms-Ar...
farms-saving-killing-A-provocative-investigation-claims-thousands-people-
falling-sick-live-near-them.html

"He put up a 64ft-high wind turbine which, though on his own land,
stood just 300 yards from the Jackson familys home."

300 yards? Neurotic cow.

I had to work next to a wind farm Â*the other week. Its not that noisy as
such but it is, dunno quite how to put it, shall we say "Unsettling"

Bloody glad I don't have to live near one...

--
Tony Sayer

Superstition?


No I don't do that silly bu^^ers thing Harry...


--
Tony Sayer

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 21:19:25 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Yes and I very much suspect that the sound thats left out of "noise
meter" readings.....

I don't think that any of them go down that low in fact no audio
equipment I know of does, they tend to filter off below 20 Hz just
calling it wasted audio...

They invariably use the A weighting curve when measuring noise as this
follows the response of the human ear (ish). That's 10dB down at about
200Hz and 40dB down at 30Hz... (0dB @ 1kHz)

http://www.ips.org.uk/faq/index.php?title=Sound_Levels

There is a distinct lack of research into infrasound from wind turbines,
where as there is plenty into "noise" using the A weighting curve...
Personally I know LF sounds, audible or not, can have some very
unsettling effects on me. It's really nice when it stops or I move out of
the affected area.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I don't think that any of them go down that low in fact no audio
equipment I know of does, they tend to filter off below 20 Hz just
calling it wasted audio...

Except the equipment to measure turntable rumble?

--
*Born free - taxed to death *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15 Sep,
Martin Brown wrote:

I don't normally find them obtrusive but the ones they have just put up
in front of the North York Moors near Middlesbrough look a right mess.

They're my local ones (Between Hilton and Seamer). They're quite attractive.
I pass them about 10 times each week.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

tony sayer wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I had to work next to a wind farm the other week. Its not that noisy as
such but it is, dunno quite how to put it, shall we say "Unsettling"
Bloody glad I don't have to live near one...
I slept in a caravan near enough underneath several of them last year for
a couple of days. Some might say it explains things. ;-)

The infrasound gets worse inside a building

Its the sound you DONT hear that buggers you.




Yes and I very much suspect that the sound thats left out of "noise
meter" readings.....

I don't think that any of them go down that low in fact no audio
equipment I know of does, they tend to filter off below 20 Hz just
calling it wasted audio...


We had better build some then.





--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I don't think that any of them go down that low in fact no audio
equipment I know of does, they tend to filter off below 20 Hz just
calling it wasted audio...

Except the equipment to measure turntable rumble?

There is no problem in the electronics: its the transducer that is the
problem

Not sure where standard microphone capsule stops..



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Sep 15, 11:49*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
* *tony sayer wrote:
I don't think that any of them go down that low in fact no audio
equipment I know of does, they tend to filter off below 20 Hz just
calling it wasted audio...

Except the equipment to measure turntable rumble?

There is no problem in the electronics: its the transducer that is the
problem

Not sure where *standard microphone capsule stops..

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

So if it can' tbe measured then no-one knows thatit actually exists?
Sounds like urban myth to me. Invented to suit the NYMBYs?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I don't think that any of them go down that low in fact no audio
equipment I know of does, they tend to filter off below 20 Hz just
calling it wasted audio...

Except the equipment to measure turntable rumble?

There is no problem in the electronics: its the transducer that is the
problem

Not sure where standard microphone capsule stops..

http://www.bksv.com/Products/handheld-instruments/sound-level-meters/sound-level-meters/type-2270.aspx?sortOrder=

3 Hz-20 kHz broadband linear frequency range

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Sep 15, 11:49 pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I don't think that any of them go down that low in fact no audio
equipment I know of does, they tend to filter off below 20 Hz just
calling it wasted audio...

Except the equipment to measure turntable rumble?

There is no problem in the electronics: its the transducer that is the
problem

Not sure where standard microphone capsule stops..

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

So if it can' tbe measured then no-one knows thatit actually exists?
Sounds like urban myth to me. Invented to suit the NYMBYs?


Oh you silly, silly man ...

Arfa