So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the computer room,
a cartload of 'em in the conservatory, and the two wall lights in the lounge
that use them, as well. Since all of this lightbulb eco-bollox nonsense came
in, it has not been possible to get them with a frosted front. They used to
give a really nice even light. The clear ones are nothing like as good in
this regard, projecting images of the filament, and uneven wodges of light
onto the walls, as a result of the optically poor clear glass used.

Tonight, I was wandering through the local Tesco avoiding the zombies, when
I spied boxes of R50s with a picture of a frosted type on them. So I
stopped, and opened one up to have a look and Lo! - in the box was two
frosted-front bulbs.

So what's going on here then ? Are they suddenly allowing the frosted type
again ?

Arfa

What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be an
issue.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the computer
room, a cartload of 'em in the conservatory, and the two wall lights in
the lounge that use them, as well. Since all of this lightbulb eco-bollox
nonsense came in, it has not been possible to get them with a frosted
front. They used to give a really nice even light. The clear ones are
nothing like as good in this regard, projecting images of the filament,
and uneven wodges of light onto the walls, as a result of the optically
poor clear glass used.

Tonight, I was wandering through the local Tesco avoiding the zombies,
when I spied boxes of R50s with a picture of a frosted type on them. So I
stopped, and opened one up to have a look and Lo! - in the box was two
frosted-front bulbs.

So what's going on here then ? Are they suddenly allowing the frosted type
again ?

Arfa

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be an
issue.

I expect the frosting reduces the brightness, perhaps reflecting much of the
light back inside. I've also had to resort to unfrosted ones. You
eventually get used to the strange patterns on the walls (I don't even
notice them now); and to me they seem much brighter.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the computer
room, a cartload of 'em in the conservatory, and the two wall lights in
the lounge that use them, as well. Since all of this lightbulb eco-bollox
nonsense came in, it has not been possible to get them with a frosted
front. They used to give a really nice even light. The clear ones are
nothing like as good in this regard, projecting images of the filament,
and uneven wodges of light onto the walls, as a result of the optically
poor clear glass used.

Tonight, I was wandering through the local Tesco avoiding the zombies,
when I spied boxes of R50s with a picture of a frosted type on them. So I
stopped, and opened one up to have a look and Lo! - in the box was two
frosted-front bulbs.

So what's going on here then ? Are they suddenly allowing the frosted
type again ?

Arfa

"gogmagog" wrote in message
. uk...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be an
issue.

I expect the frosting reduces the brightness, perhaps reflecting much of
the light back inside. I've also had to resort to unfrosted ones. You
eventually get used to the strange patterns on the walls (I don't even
notice them now); and to me they seem much brighter.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the computer
room, a cartload of 'em in the conservatory, and the two wall lights in
the lounge that use them, as well. Since all of this lightbulb
eco-bollox nonsense came in, it has not been possible to get them with a
frosted front. They used to give a really nice even light. The clear
ones are nothing like as good in this regard, projecting images of the
filament, and uneven wodges of light onto the walls, as a result of the
optically poor clear glass used.

Tonight, I was wandering through the local Tesco avoiding the zombies,
when I spied boxes of R50s with a picture of a frosted type on them. So
I stopped, and opened one up to have a look and Lo! - in the box was two
frosted-front bulbs.

So what's going on here then ? Are they suddenly allowing the frosted
type again ?

Arfa



"gogmagog" wrote in message
. uk...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be an
issue.


Like much of this eco-bollox nonsense, I don't really know, either. I could
never figure what the issue was with frosted envelopes on bulbs. I seem to
recall reading somewhere that they used slightly more energy to produce,
which is a laugh when you look at the energy budget for building and
shipping those useless CFL things. Never-the-less, they were banned, and the
only frosted alternatives in a 'regular' bulb shape that I can find these
days, are the so-called 'energy saver' halogens where a capsule bulb is
inside a regular-shaped envelope. Even these are now getting hard to find,
the frosted glass being replaced with clear, which looks utterly ridiculous.
When I was a kid, most bulbs were clear, and the light was often shadowy or
watery. Then the frosted or pearl types became popular, and incandescent
lighting reached its pinnacle, with the light being bright and even. Now
we've taken a huge step backwards, both with reverting to clear glass bulbs,
and trying to foist CFLs on everyone ...

Arfa

On Sep 4, 1:34*am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the computer room,

Have you tried the flat-fronted CFLs sold for spots and desklamps?
They're pretty good as worklights.

On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:12:18 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be
an issue.

Reduces the light output for a given power input.

I detest clear bulbs, they give far to harsh a light even inside a shade.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Sep 4, 1:34 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the computer
room,

Have you tried the flat-fronted CFLs sold for spots and desklamps?
They're pretty good as worklights.


I haven't, no. I'll have a look at them if I remember (memory like a sieve
these days ...) :-\

Arfa

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On Sep 4, 1:34 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
So, I have a bar of four MES

ITYM SES. MES is torch-bulb.

Is it ? I was just thinking Miniature Edison Screw as opposed to ES or
'Standard' ES



R50 reflector spots here in the computer room,

I replaced mine with SES CFLs which I got from Tesco for 10p each. The
sticks poke out of the fitting, but 2 give ample light for my kitchen,
which was rather gloomy with 4 spots.

Owain



But this is the thing. I hate to see the bloody things sticking out of the
front of fittings. When I chose the lighting for various areas of my house,
it was done with decorative design and aesthetics in mind, as much as
providing light.

Arfa

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the computer
room, a cartload of 'em in the conservatory, and the two wall lights in
the lounge that use them, as well. Since all of this lightbulb
eco-bollox nonsense came in, it has not been possible to get them with
a frosted front. They used to give a really nice even light. The clear
ones are nothing like as good in this regard, projecting images of the
filament, and uneven wodges of light onto the walls, as a result of the
optically poor clear glass used.

Tonight, I was wandering through the local Tesco avoiding the zombies,
when I spied boxes of R50s with a picture of a frosted type on them. So
I stopped, and opened one up to have a look and Lo! - in the box was
two frosted-front bulbs.

So what's going on here then ? Are they suddenly allowing the frosted
type again ?

TLC do frosted halogen types. Not cheap, though. The higher efficiency of
halogen seems they are still available while plain tungsten maybe not.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Lamps_and_Tubes_Index/Spot_Lamps_Reflector_1/index.html

--
*Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 14:14:29 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

ITYM SES. MES is torch-bulb.

Is it ? I was just thinking Miniature Edison Screw as opposed to ES or
'Standard' ES

ES - Edison Screw 27mm dia
SES - Small Edison Screw 14mm dia
MES - Minature Edison Screw 10mm dia

But it ain't that simple:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edison_screw

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:12:18 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be
an issue.

Reduces the light output for a given power input.

The hydroflouric acid etch frosting cost around 2% of the light
output. However, due to H&S issues with hydroflouric acid handling,
it effectively became unviable to use anymore a few years back,
and the frosting of GLS lamps switched over to a dust coating,
which was more costly in terms of light lost. (Acid etch may
have still been used on some higher priced lamps such as R50,
R80, etc.)

There was also the view that if you wanted the enlarged light
source of a frosted lamp, you could damn well use a CFL instead,
whereas there was no effective replacement where the more compact
intense filament light source was required.

I detest clear bulbs, they give far to harsh a light even inside a shade.

I expected someone to produce a spray-on frosting in the light
of the new regs, but to date, I haven't seen one.

As for "recycled", as I commented in another thread, there are
warehouses full of banned stockpiled lamps, which for the most
part are now just junk, because there has been virtually no
demand for them, and they cost more to store and distribute
than they can be sold for. You might be seeing some of this
stock making its way out - it does slowly, although generally
not into the main supermarket outlets which voluntarily agreed
not to sell them anymore.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andy Dingley writes:
On Sep 4, 1:34*am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the computer room,
Have you tried the flat-fronted CFLs sold for spots and desklamps?
They're pretty good as worklights.

In terms of total light output, ignore the equivalent filament rating
on the box, and assume no better than a 2:1 ratio for small CFL
reflector lamps. In some situations (particularly for general lighting
where spotlamps are the wrong thing to be using), they can seem better
than 2:1 due to the wider (flood) beam angle spilling light over a
wider area.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 09:08:59 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

You might be seeing some of this stock making its way out - it does
slowly, although generally not into the main supermarket outlets which
voluntarily agreed not to sell them anymore.

If Tesco can sell something make a profit (even if it's indirectly by
increased footfall) and not actually break the law they will.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 04/09/2012 10:07, Arfa Daily wrote:


"gogmagog" wrote in message
. uk...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be
an issue.

I expect the frosting reduces the brightness, perhaps reflecting much
of the light back inside. I've also had to resort to unfrosted ones.
You eventually get used to the strange patterns on the walls (I don't
even notice them now); and to me they seem much brighter.

Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the
computer room, a cartload of 'em in the conservatory, and the two
wall lights in the lounge that use them, as well. Since all of this
lightbulb eco-bollox nonsense came in, it has not been possible to
get them with a frosted front. They used to give a really nice even
light. The clear ones are nothing like as good in this regard,
projecting images of the filament, and uneven wodges of light onto
the walls, as a result of the optically poor clear glass used.

Tonight, I was wandering through the local Tesco avoiding the
zombies, when I spied boxes of R50s with a picture of a frosted type
on them. So I stopped, and opened one up to have a look and Lo! - in
the box was two frosted-front bulbs.

So what's going on here then ? Are they suddenly allowing the
frosted type again ?

Arfa



"gogmagog" wrote in message
. uk...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be
an issue.


Like much of this eco-bollox nonsense, I don't really know, either. I
could never figure what the issue was with frosted envelopes on bulbs. I
seem to recall reading somewhere that they used slightly more energy to
produce, which is a laugh when you look at the energy budget for
building and shipping those useless CFL things. Never-the-less, they
were banned, and the only frosted alternatives in a 'regular' bulb shape
that I can find these days, are the so-called 'energy saver' halogens
where a capsule bulb is inside a regular-shaped envelope. Even these are
now getting hard to find, the frosted glass being replaced with clear,
which looks utterly ridiculous. When I was a kid, most bulbs were clear,
and the light was often shadowy or watery. Then the frosted or pearl
types became popular, and incandescent lighting reached its pinnacle,
with the light being bright and even. Now we've taken a huge step
backwards, both with reverting to clear glass bulbs, and trying to foist
CFLs on everyone ...

I have seen thin frosted "condoms" for clear GLS bulbs.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 05/09/2012 10:08, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:12:18 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be
an issue.

Reduces the light output for a given power input.

The hydroflouric acid etch frosting cost around 2% of the light
output. However, due to H&S issues with hydroflouric acid handling,
it effectively became unviable to use anymore a few years back,
and the frosting of GLS lamps switched over to a dust coating,
which was more costly in terms of light lost. (Acid etch may
have still been used on some higher priced lamps such as R50,
R80, etc.)

I wonder what they use Hydrofluoric acid for these days? I'm currently
working on the instrumentation for a plant that is recycling old
industrial waste and will be exporting tanker loads of the stuff (70%
v/v) for 10 to 20 years. They apparently have a ready market for it.

SteveW

SteveW wrote:
On 05/09/2012 10:08, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:12:18 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be
an issue.

Reduces the light output for a given power input.

The hydroflouric acid etch frosting cost around 2% of the light
output. However, due to H&S issues with hydroflouric acid handling,
it effectively became unviable to use anymore a few years back,
and the frosting of GLS lamps switched over to a dust coating,
which was more costly in terms of light lost. (Acid etch may
have still been used on some higher priced lamps such as R50,
R80, etc.)

I wonder what they use Hydrofluoric acid for these days?

Uranium hexafluoride?

I'm currently
working on the instrumentation for a plant that is recycling old
industrial waste and will be exporting tanker loads of the stuff (70%
v/v) for 10 to 20 years. They apparently have a ready market for it.


In Iran?

SteveW



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the computer
room, a cartload of 'em in the conservatory, and the two wall lights in
the lounge that use them, as well. Since all of this lightbulb
eco-bollox nonsense came in, it has not been possible to get them with
a frosted front. They used to give a really nice even light. The clear
ones are nothing like as good in this regard, projecting images of the
filament, and uneven wodges of light onto the walls, as a result of the
optically poor clear glass used.

Tonight, I was wandering through the local Tesco avoiding the zombies,
when I spied boxes of R50s with a picture of a frosted type on them. So
I stopped, and opened one up to have a look and Lo! - in the box was
two frosted-front bulbs.

So what's going on here then ? Are they suddenly allowing the frosted
type again ?

TLC do frosted halogen types. Not cheap, though. The higher efficiency of
halogen seems they are still available while plain tungsten maybe not.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Lamps_and_Tubes_Index/Spot_Lamps_Reflector_1/index.html

--
*Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


I got a CPC "Bulk Bargains" mini catalogue in the post today, and bugger me,
what's on the back page ? Light bulbs, that's what. And what's amongst those
light bulbs ? Yep, Frosted R50 reflectors. 12p a pop in a quantity of 10, so
I reckon I might just stock up with a fiver's worth whilst they're still on
the market again ...

Arfa

In article ,
SteveW writes:
On 05/09/2012 10:08, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:12:18 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be
an issue.

Reduces the light output for a given power input.

The hydroflouric acid etch frosting cost around 2% of the light
output. However, due to H&S issues with hydroflouric acid handling,
it effectively became unviable to use anymore a few years back,
and the frosting of GLS lamps switched over to a dust coating,
which was more costly in terms of light lost. (Acid etch may
have still been used on some higher priced lamps such as R50,
R80, etc.)

I wonder what they use Hydrofluoric acid for these days? I'm currently
working on the instrumentation for a plant that is recycling old
industrial waste and will be exporting tanker loads of the stuff (70%
v/v) for 10 to 20 years. They apparently have a ready market for it.

It's still used for etching glass, but I suspect only for parts
which cost more than a light bulb, where it has become unviable
to include the H&S cost of handling.

If I was to guess further, I suspect the real reason for banning
the frosted lamps was that EU manuafcturers couldn't make them as
cheaply as Chinese manufacturers (who probably manage to use HF
with much less H&S overhead and cost). The EU lighting industry
has managed to convince the EU to ban things when the EU lighting
industry could no longer manufacture them competitively, and saw
it as a way of blocking their competitors and forcing EU customers
towards the more expensive products which the EU manufacturers
could still make.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
SteveW writes:
On 05/09/2012 10:08, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:12:18 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be
an issue.
Reduces the light output for a given power input.
The hydroflouric acid etch frosting cost around 2% of the light
output. However, due to H&S issues with hydroflouric acid handling,
it effectively became unviable to use anymore a few years back,
and the frosting of GLS lamps switched over to a dust coating,
which was more costly in terms of light lost. (Acid etch may
have still been used on some higher priced lamps such as R50,
R80, etc.)
I wonder what they use Hydrofluoric acid for these days? I'm currently
working on the instrumentation for a plant that is recycling old
industrial waste and will be exporting tanker loads of the stuff (70%
v/v) for 10 to 20 years. They apparently have a ready market for it.

It's still used for etching glass, but I suspect only for parts
which cost more than a light bulb, where it has become unviable
to include the H&S cost of handling.

If I was to guess further, I suspect the real reason for banning
the frosted lamps was that EU manuafcturers couldn't make them as
cheaply as Chinese manufacturers (who probably manage to use HF
with much less H&S overhead and cost). The EU lighting industry
has managed to convince the EU to ban things when the EU lighting
industry could no longer manufacture them competitively, and saw
it as a way of blocking their competitors and forcing EU customers
towards the more expensive products which the EU manufacturers
could still make.


This is essentially EU standard operating procedure. Find something that
your product does or doesn't do that differentiates it from competiton,
and then get the EU to make a universal law that means your cempetitors
product cant actually be sold.

Drives up prices and temporarily increases profits until the chinese
copy it anyway.

First happened with californian cars. Cat converters were made mandatory
even though they don't work in cold climates till they are properly
warmed up. And increase fuel consumption.




--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 05/09/2012 22:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
SteveW wrote:
On 05/09/2012 10:08, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:12:18 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be
an issue.

Reduces the light output for a given power input.

The hydroflouric acid etch frosting cost around 2% of the light
output. However, due to H&S issues with hydroflouric acid handling,
it effectively became unviable to use anymore a few years back,
and the frosting of GLS lamps switched over to a dust coating,
which was more costly in terms of light lost. (Acid etch may
have still been used on some higher priced lamps such as R50,
R80, etc.)

I wonder what they use Hydrofluoric acid for these days?

Uranium hexafluoride?

Correct, but not in the way you are thinking - this is recycling stored,
depleted UF6 and recovering and cleaning up the acid recovered for
onward sale.

SteveW