Several months ago, we had a new UPVC door fitted at the front, then
another new one fitted at the rear as part of the job of having all of
the windows replaced too. Two different installers.

The first door has been no problem what so ever, but we have had the
installer of the second one back now three times due to issues with the
one at the rear. Basically, the door either doesn't seal in the centre,
or if made to pull tight enough to fully seal, it is hard to open and
close. I have just had a straight edge on the door and the frame which
has revealed the door bows in halfway down at both hinge side and the
lock side by 1/8". Top and bottom edges are true.

We are now looking to call them back a fourth time, but I'm just
seeking some second opinions on the amount of bow in the door.



--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:
Several months ago, we had a new UPVC door fitted at the front, then
another new one fitted at the rear as part of the job of having all of
the windows replaced too. Two different installers.

The first door has been no problem what so ever, but we have had the
installer of the second one back now three times due to issues with the
one at the rear. Basically, the door either doesn't seal in the centre,
or if made to pull tight enough to fully seal, it is hard to open and
close. I have just had a straight edge on the door and the frame which
has revealed the door bows in halfway down at both hinge side and the
lock side by 1/8". Top and bottom edges are true.

Do you mean it's barrel shaped?
That would imply it was wrongly cut, or the centre section used
from the wrong door. These are all measured and cut by computer
nowadays (and even a decade ago too), so that shouldn't happen.

Other thing to check - has it gone off square? Measure the two
diagonals, and make sure they're the same. (Could check the same
with the frame too, although that would be a different problem.)

We are now looking to call them back a fourth time, but I'm just
seeking some second opinions on the amount of bow in the door.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel formulated on Monday :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:
Several months ago, we had a new UPVC door fitted at the front, then
another new one fitted at the rear as part of the job of having all of
the windows replaced too. Two different installers.

The first door has been no problem what so ever, but we have had the
installer of the second one back now three times due to issues with the
one at the rear. Basically, the door either doesn't seal in the centre,
or if made to pull tight enough to fully seal, it is hard to open and
close. I have just had a straight edge on the door and the frame which
has revealed the door bows in halfway down at both hinge side and the
lock side by 1/8". Top and bottom edges are true.

Do you mean it's barrel shaped?
That would imply it was wrongly cut, or the centre section used
from the wrong door. These are all measured and cut by computer
nowadays (and even a decade ago too), so that shouldn't happen.

Other thing to check - has it gone off square? Measure the two
diagonals, and make sure they're the same. (Could check the same
with the frame too, although that would be a different problem.)

We are now looking to call them back a fourth time, but I'm just
seeking some second opinions on the amount of bow in the door.

It is square and the edges are quite straight. The only issue is with
the face and rear of the door not being vertically flat.

Put a straight edge across the door horizontally, at top middle and
bottom it is flat. However if a 6ft straight edge is placed against the
door vertically, on the outside face of the door - with it touching top
and bottom, there is a gap of 1/8" between straight edge and door at
the middle. The same applies at both the hinge side and the lock side.

Similarly - Put the straight edge vertically on the inside of the door
and it rocks due to the vertical bend in the door.

So with door closed, looking horizontally along the door towards the
seal at the lock, there is a 1/8" gap between seal and door. Look
towards the hinge from the lock and there is also a slight gap.

It is as if the inside face of the door has been made very slightly
taller than the outside, causing the two faces to bow slightly.

The door is half glazed, solid at the bottom, glass at the top.

Does that make better sense?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:
Andrew Gabriel formulated on Monday :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:
Several months ago, we had a new UPVC door fitted at the front, then
another new one fitted at the rear as part of the job of having all of
the windows replaced too. Two different installers.

The first door has been no problem what so ever, but we have had the
installer of the second one back now three times due to issues with the
one at the rear. Basically, the door either doesn't seal in the centre,
or if made to pull tight enough to fully seal, it is hard to open and
close. I have just had a straight edge on the door and the frame which
has revealed the door bows in halfway down at both hinge side and the
lock side by 1/8". Top and bottom edges are true.

Do you mean it's barrel shaped?
That would imply it was wrongly cut, or the centre section used
from the wrong door. These are all measured and cut by computer
nowadays (and even a decade ago too), so that shouldn't happen.

Other thing to check - has it gone off square? Measure the two
diagonals, and make sure they're the same. (Could check the same
with the frame too, although that would be a different problem.)

We are now looking to call them back a fourth time, but I'm just
seeking some second opinions on the amount of bow in the door.

It is square and the edges are quite straight. The only issue is with
the face and rear of the door not being vertically flat.

Put a straight edge across the door horizontally, at top middle and
bottom it is flat. However if a 6ft straight edge is placed against the
door vertically, on the outside face of the door - with it touching top
and bottom, there is a gap of 1/8" between straight edge and door at
the middle. The same applies at both the hinge side and the lock side.

Similarly - Put the straight edge vertically on the inside of the door
and it rocks due to the vertical bend in the door.

So with door closed, looking horizontally along the door towards the
seal at the lock, there is a 1/8" gap between seal and door. Look
towards the hinge from the lock and there is also a slight gap.

It is as if the inside face of the door has been made very slightly
taller than the outside, causing the two faces to bow slightly.

The door is half glazed, solid at the bottom, glass at the top.

Does that make better sense?

Ah yes, not at all what I was imagining.

No idea how that would happen. I could only imagine bad storage
with some force exerted distorting it. I would not think it's
easily fixable, particularly as it's now required for use. It
sounds like a new door is required.

With the frame, it might be more understandable as having been
fitted bent.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel brought next idea :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:
Andrew Gabriel formulated on Monday :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:
Several months ago, we had a new UPVC door fitted at the front, then
another new one fitted at the rear as part of the job of having all of
the windows replaced too. Two different installers.

The first door has been no problem what so ever, but we have had the
installer of the second one back now three times due to issues with the
one at the rear. Basically, the door either doesn't seal in the centre,
or if made to pull tight enough to fully seal, it is hard to open and
close. I have just had a straight edge on the door and the frame which
has revealed the door bows in halfway down at both hinge side and the
lock side by 1/8". Top and bottom edges are true.

Do you mean it's barrel shaped?
That would imply it was wrongly cut, or the centre section used
from the wrong door. These are all measured and cut by computer
nowadays (and even a decade ago too), so that shouldn't happen.

Other thing to check - has it gone off square? Measure the two
diagonals, and make sure they're the same. (Could check the same
with the frame too, although that would be a different problem.)

We are now looking to call them back a fourth time, but I'm just
seeking some second opinions on the amount of bow in the door.

It is square and the edges are quite straight. The only issue is with
the face and rear of the door not being vertically flat.

Put a straight edge across the door horizontally, at top middle and
bottom it is flat. However if a 6ft straight edge is placed against the
door vertically, on the outside face of the door - with it touching top
and bottom, there is a gap of 1/8" between straight edge and door at
the middle. The same applies at both the hinge side and the lock side.

Similarly - Put the straight edge vertically on the inside of the door
and it rocks due to the vertical bend in the door.

So with door closed, looking horizontally along the door towards the
seal at the lock, there is a 1/8" gap between seal and door. Look
towards the hinge from the lock and there is also a slight gap.

It is as if the inside face of the door has been made very slightly
taller than the outside, causing the two faces to bow slightly.

The door is half glazed, solid at the bottom, glass at the top.

Does that make better sense?

Ah yes, not at all what I was imagining.

No idea how that would happen. I could only imagine bad storage
with some force exerted distorting it. I would not think it's
easily fixable, particularly as it's now required for use. It
sounds like a new door is required.

With the frame, it might be more understandable as having been
fitted bent.

Yes, I thought until today it must have been due to the frame badly
fitted. The fitter came back out last week to try to readjust it and I
just happened to come across a suitable straight edge today, with which
to check it.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 27/08/2012 18:40, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andrew Gabriel brought next idea :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:
Andrew Gabriel formulated on Monday :
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:
Several months ago, we had a new UPVC door fitted at the front,
then another new one fitted at the rear as part of the job of
having all of the windows replaced too. Two different installers.

The first door has been no problem what so ever, but we have had
the installer of the second one back now three times due to issues
with the one at the rear. Basically, the door either doesn't seal
in the centre, or if made to pull tight enough to fully seal, it is
hard to open and close. I have just had a straight edge on the door
and the frame which has revealed the door bows in halfway down at
both hinge side and the lock side by 1/8". Top and bottom edges are
true.

Do you mean it's barrel shaped?
That would imply it was wrongly cut, or the centre section used
from the wrong door. These are all measured and cut by computer
nowadays (and even a decade ago too), so that shouldn't happen.

Other thing to check - has it gone off square? Measure the two
diagonals, and make sure they're the same. (Could check the same
with the frame too, although that would be a different problem.)

We are now looking to call them back a fourth time, but I'm just
seeking some second opinions on the amount of bow in the door.

It is square and the edges are quite straight. The only issue is with
the face and rear of the door not being vertically flat.

Put a straight edge across the door horizontally, at top middle and
bottom it is flat. However if a 6ft straight edge is placed against
the door vertically, on the outside face of the door - with it
touching top and bottom, there is a gap of 1/8" between straight edge
and door at the middle. The same applies at both the hinge side and
the lock side.

Similarly - Put the straight edge vertically on the inside of the
door and it rocks due to the vertical bend in the door.

So with door closed, looking horizontally along the door towards the
seal at the lock, there is a 1/8" gap between seal and door. Look
towards the hinge from the lock and there is also a slight gap.

It is as if the inside face of the door has been made very slightly
taller than the outside, causing the two faces to bow slightly.

The door is half glazed, solid at the bottom, glass at the top.

Does that make better sense?

Ah yes, not at all what I was imagining.

No idea how that would happen. I could only imagine bad storage
with some force exerted distorting it. I would not think it's
easily fixable, particularly as it's now required for use. It
sounds like a new door is required.

With the frame, it might be more understandable as having been
fitted bent.

Yes, I thought until today it must have been due to the frame badly
fitted. The fitter came back out last week to try to readjust it and I
just happened to come across a suitable straight edge today, with which
to check it.

Out of interest, our front door, which was fitted before we moved in 18
years ago, has similar problems. They only occur during hot days, it is
fine the rest of the time. On a hot day the middle of the door closes,
but the top and bottom are slightly bowed away from the frame and the
top and bottom locking pins don't want to engage.

I suppose I should get around to changing it!

SteveW

Harry Bloomfield submitted this idea :
Several months ago, we had a new UPVC door fitted at the front, then another
new one fitted at the rear as part of the job of having all of the windows
replaced too. Two different installers.

The first door has been no problem what so ever, but we have had the
installer of the second one back now three times due to issues with the one
at the rear. Basically, the door either doesn't seal in the centre, or if
made to pull tight enough to fully seal, it is hard to open and close. I have
just had a straight edge on the door and the frame which has revealed the
door bows in halfway down at both hinge side and the lock side by 1/8". Top
and bottom edges are true.

We are now looking to call them back a fourth time, but I'm just seeking some
second opinions on the amount of bow in the door.

The installer has been asked to re-attend to it yet again, to take
another look at the problem. So, any opinions on just how I ought to
handle it this time please?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote...

Harry Bloomfield submitted this idea :
Several months ago, we had a new UPVC door fitted at the front, then
another new one fitted at the rear as part of the job of having all
of the windows replaced too. Two different installers.

The first door has been no problem what so ever, but we have had the
installer of the second one back now three times due to issues with
the one at the rear. Basically, the door either doesn't seal in the
centre, or if made to pull tight enough to fully seal, it is hard to
open and close. I have just had a straight edge on the door and the
frame which has revealed the door bows in halfway down at both hinge
side and the lock side by 1/8". Top and bottom edges are true.

We are now looking to call them back a fourth time, but I'm just
seeking some second opinions on the amount of bow in the door.

The installer has been asked to re-attend to it yet again, to take
another look at the problem. So, any opinions on just how I ought to
handle it this time please?


PVCu frames are not rigid as their strength only comes from the profile
itself and the thin galvanised steel section inserted into the profile.
A common mistake taken by installers is to try and match the inside of
the frame to the original plaster line and not putting sufficient
anchorage in the cavity. If the plaster line is out or there is no
support in the centre of the longest frame length it is possible to
install a door with the symptoms you describe.

The door sash is more rigid than the frame so it is the frame that needs
adjusting, not the door as you can show that the frame is out.

The door, on its latch only, should be sealed all round the seals. Use a
1 inch wide strip of normal copier paper to test the seal by inserting
it between the seals, closing the door and pulling it out. The seals
should grip the paper enough to grip it firmly but not prevent it being
removed.

Operation of the door handle should only be for engaging the bolts and
the cams, if fitted, are only there to add a little additional pull on
the seals, not to squash them flat

It is common for frames and window casements to be screwed to wooden
blocks fitted into the cavity and it is possible that the installer only
fitted blocks top and bottom. I would fit 4 blocks to each side, align
the frame and check as you have before screwing in.

ave a look on the inside of the frame and see how many screws have been
used. There should be al least 3 on each side, top, bottom and middle.

The installer needs to realign the frame even if it means taking it out
again.
--
Ilene

on 29/08/2012, Ilene D'over supposed :
PVCu frames are not rigid as their strength only comes from the profile
itself and the thin galvanised steel section inserted into the profile. A
common mistake taken by installers is to try and match the inside of the
frame to the original plaster line and not putting sufficient anchorage in
the cavity. If the plaster line is out or there is no support in the centre
of the longest frame length it is possible to install a door with the
symptoms you describe.

There is/was no plaster line, it is bare brick. Originally it was an
open to weather arched entrance. I did away with the arch and fitted a
wood door and frame many years ago, because the prevailing wind blew
rain in.


The door sash is more rigid than the frame so it is the frame that needs
adjusting, not the door as you can show that the frame is out.

No, the frame is perfectly square and straight. It is the door which is
bowed in at the mid point. A 6 foot straight edge laid vertically on
the door shows the face to bow in on both the left and right hand edges
of the door.

In one of there attempts to fix the issue, there attempted to make the
frame bow to suit the inward bow of the door.


The door, on its latch only, should be sealed all round the seals. Use a 1
inch wide strip of normal copier paper to test the seal by inserting it
between the seals, closing the door and pulling it out. The seals should grip
the paper enough to grip it firmly but not prevent it being removed.

No paper is needed, the gap is very obvious. It seals fine along the
top and bottom, but there is a large gap which progressively get wider
from both the top and bottom towards the latch and hinge sides of the
door. It is at its widest at the mid height of the door.


Operation of the door handle should only be for engaging the bolts and the
cams, if fitted, are only there to add a little additional pull on the seals,
not to squash them flat

The final lift of the handle, where the bolts engage, is quite tight to
both lock and unlock. The handle mechanism is now suffering the results
of this extra strain. Once locked, the gaps do close, but paper is not
quite held in the gap by the latch and the door is obviously having to
be sprung to make it more straight, to match the straight frame.


It is common for frames and window casements to be screwed to wooden blocks
fitted into the cavity and it is possible that the installer only fitted
blocks top and bottom. I would fit 4 blocks to each side, align the frame and
check as you have before screwing in.

ave a look on the inside of the frame and see how many screws have been used.
There should be al least 3 on each side, top, bottom and middle.

There five fixings per side.


The installer needs to realign the frame even if it means taking it out
again.

As said, the frame is perfectly straight and square.

What I really need to know - do they need to have a new door made, or
might it be possible/ reasonable solution for them to take the door
away and have it made or bent straight?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote...

on 29/08/2012, Ilene D'over supposed :

As said, the frame is perfectly straight and square.

What I really need to know - do they need to have a new door made, or
might it be possible/ reasonable solution for them to take the door
away and have it made or be
nt straight?


Sorry that I missed that the door was bowed. Hope the info was of use
anyway?

As a maker of PVCu doors I can clearly state that you need a new door.
There is no adjustment on this planet that is ever going to fix your
problem.
--
Ilene

replying to Harry Bloomfield, Chris Trevor wrote:
There is an answer,which is to fit a flat steel bar top to bottom inside the
glazing rebate and screw it through the existing profile and
reinforcing,whilst clamping or prestressing the door stile to the required
position.I've done this many times.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/...ed-829205-.htm

On 02/10/2016 17:44, Chris Trevor wrote:
replying to Harry Bloomfield, Chris Trevor wrote:
There is an answer,which is to fit a flat steel bar top to bottom inside
the
glazing rebate and screw it through the existing profile and
reinforcing,whilst clamping or prestressing the door stile to the required
position.I've done this many times.


Wow, a reply from a home hub user to an article only 4 years old this time.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote
Chris Trevor wrote
replying to Harry Bloomfield, Chris Trevor wrote:

There is an answer,which is to fit a flat steel bar top to bottom inside
the glazing rebate and screw it through the existing profile and
reinforcing,whilst clamping or prestressing the door stile to the
required position.I've done this many times.

Wow, a reply from a home hub user to an article only 4 years old this
time.

Still a useful comment regardless of how long since the
original question, as long as what it applys to is still used.

It'd be better if it quoted at least some of the OP tho.

On Monday, 27 August 2012 15:48:05 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Several months ago, we had a new UPVC door fitted at the front, then
another new one fitted at the rear as part of the job of having all of
the windows replaced too. Two different installers.

The first door has been no problem what so ever, but we have had the
installer of the second one back now three times due to issues with the
one at the rear. Basically, the door either doesn't seal in the centre,
or if made to pull tight enough to fully seal, it is hard to open and
close. I have just had a straight edge on the door and the frame which
has revealed the door bows in halfway down at both hinge side and the
lock side by 1/8". Top and bottom edges are true.

We are now looking to call them back a fourth time, but I'm just
seeking some second opinions on the amount of bow in the door.



Quite unusual for a door to bow.
On the other hand, frames can be bent/twisted by dodgy fixings, ie not shimmed properly and the fixings pull the frame out of true.

On Monday, 27 August 2012 15:48:05 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Several months ago, we had a new UPVC door fitted at the front, then
another new one fitted at the rear as part of the job of having all of
the windows replaced too. Two different installers.

The first door has been no problem what so ever, but we have had the
installer of the second one back now three times due to issues with the
one at the rear. Basically, the door either doesn't seal in the centre,
or if made to pull tight enough to fully seal, it is hard to open and
close. I have just had a straight edge on the door and the frame which
has revealed the door bows in halfway down at both hinge side and the
lock side by 1/8". Top and bottom edges are true.

We are now looking to call them back a fourth time, but I'm just
seeking some second opinions on the amount of bow in the door.



--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Check your straight edge is actually straight by turning it over too.

replying to Chris Trevor, johnhumph wrote:
A very interesting and helpful post from Chris Trevor. I have the same problem
with a bowed door but the frame is straight. I would be very interested to
know if there is a company that will carry out the repair or perhaps Chis
Trevor, who seems to be in the trade, can offer his services?

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/...ed-829205-.htm

replying to johnhumph, johnhumph wrote:
Does anyone know Chris Trevor's contact details please?

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/...ed-829205-.htm