Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
Hi,
As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps we could include: Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room. Rules of thumb about the space between tiles? What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better? I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for? A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they better, and how to mix them? Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood. Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same batch to avoid variation in colour. Here are a couple of questions that would really help me: I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I do first, or doesn't it matter? I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but... If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones 10mm seen as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door? Well, there's a few things to start with |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
Fred wrote:
Hi, As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps we could include: Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room. Well, the Romans did - but we are talking proper mosaics that formed a huge picture, rather than just a wibbly repeating pattern Rules of thumb about the space between tiles? 2mm for 10cm tiles I find works. 300mm Floor tiles - less than you think - about 3-4mm at most. If the tile has bevelled edges, the grout joing becomes wider than the actual gap. What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better? The notch size governs the final thickness of the bed - which ends up about 1/2 the notch depth assuming 50/50 square notches. Semi circles can be easier with heavy duty adhesive whilst maintaining a thinner bed. 1cm square notches or equiv semicircular usually works well for floors. I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for? No idea. A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they better, and how to mix them? Combined is rubbish, except for minor repairs (tile fell off) where it is convenient. Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood. "Class S2" is the magic specification for the most "flexible". Many self mix poweders can be made into flexible by using one of teh manufacturer's admix liquids. Or you can buy flex in powder ready to go, or even tub premixed, which is OK for wall work (eg onto ply panel). Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same batch to avoid variation in colour. Yes - or if you cannot, change batches on a wall junction where slight differences will be less noticeable. Here are a couple of questions that would really help me: I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I do first, or doesn't it matter? Floor first is good. Grout the tiles to the plaster. Then take the wall tiles down to the floor tiles leaving a 4mm or so gap for silicone (or MS polymer) bead. If using tub adhesive for walls (which seems fine if the adhesive is good stuff, eg BAL) then wall tiling tends to be less messy than floor tiling - the worst part is the grouting but that's easily wiped off the floor during the wipe off/polishing stage. Personally I always use power grouts even for walls as the grout is the first defence against water and unlike adhesive, it's easy to mix as you usually only need a large bowl full at time rather than by the bucket. I have hand mixed grouts with a stainless cooking bowl and woodlen spoon without issue. Mixing a bucket of adhesive is better done with a power mixer on a drill. BAL Greenstar IME has a nice "grab" whilst still alowing tweaking for a good few minutes. New polished plaster should be scratched (or sponged whilst being plastered). If you have new plaster, run over with a steel wire brush to break teh glaze and coat with dilute SBR (or plaster sealer) - this is from BAL Greenstar's instructions. This really helps the adhesion and SBR will waterpoof the plaster to some extent too. I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but... I use a simple drawing program - adopt a scale, make a scale outline of the walls, draw a tile to scale (including one grout line width top and right) then replicate a load and tweak until it looks right. This is an excellent way of laying out a pattern too. If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end If at least one corner was actually vertical, I would start with a full tile unless there is an aesthetic reason (patterns) not to. I always try to have a full tile on external edges, even if using tile edge strip - the bevelled edge makes for a better grout line in a highly visble zone. Internal edges take cut edges just fine and grout nicely. or would you take a quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones 10mm seen as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door? Well, there's a few things to start with Grouting - get a good quality grout float (rubber) and tiler's sponge. Keep changing to fresh water in the bucket. Makes applying/cleaning/polishing so much easier. There's loads more you can say - but that's all I can think ofright now - others will be along... -- Tim Watts |
#3
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
In article ,
Fred writes: Hi, As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps we could include: Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room. In a small kitchen, I deliberately chose smaller tiles (20cm sq), so you can see plenty of repeating pattern, and I think it makes the room look bigger. Conversely, in a really small kitchen, I have seen very large tiles used, and it made the room feel minute. Note that laying a tile takes the same length of time regardless of size, so tiling a room in 20x20cm tiles will take over twice as long as tiling it in 30x30cm tiles. Rules of thumb about the space between tiles? That's a matter of style. Likewise, for choice of grout colour. You can use more than one grout colour too (I have with some wall tiles, when using a different colour dado rail tile). What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better? I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for? A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they better, and how to mix them? I always use the powdered adhesive and (separate) powdered grout. I suspect the fast setting and ready-mixed are compromise products, but as I'm not paying for my time, that's a compromise I don't have to make. I also add a waterproofing admix to the grout, certainly in a shower. (Can't remember if I did for the kitchen floor.) It's expensive, but a tiny bottle does loads of grouting. There are also resin based grouts, generally used in food preparation areas (e.g. if you want a tiled worktop) because they are completely non-porous. Never used them myself though. Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood. Yes, but regardless of what it says on the tin, they don't work directly on floorboards. Need to use a plywood base. Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same batch to avoid variation in colour. Mix packets in any case. Depends on how noticable any colour difference is going to show. Also, check carefully for any damaged ones. It annoys me that one of my bathroom tiles has a dent on the face (done before being glazed), and I didn't notice until it was all finished. Here are a couple of questions that would really help me: I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I do first, or doesn't it matter? I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but... If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an It depends how square the corner is (corners usually aren't very square). If you start with a whole tile in a corner, and as you work your way up, you find the gap growing, it's much harder to fix than if you are cutting all the edge tiles to fit anyway. advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones 10mm seen as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door? Well, there's a few things to start with -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#4
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
Something else I've been careful about - getting adjacent tiles
level with each other. I've seen plenty of examples of professional tiling where that's not been done, and it really shows (to me anyway). You just need a short piece of wood (perhaps 1.5 tiles long) which you can lay on the tile as you tap it into the adhesive bed, so you can see when it's level with the next tile(s). -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 26/06/2012 11:34, Fred wrote:
Hi, As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps we could include: Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room.... That is a matter of interior design and one thing about interior design is that if there are any rules they are there to be broken, under the right circumstance. Colin Bignell |
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 26/06/2012 12:53, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Something else I've been careful about - getting adjacent tiles level with each other. I've seen plenty of examples of professional tiling where that's not been done, and it really shows (to me anyway). You just need a short piece of wood (perhaps 1.5 tiles long) which you can lay on the tile as you tap it into the adhesive bed, so you can see when it's level with the next tile(s). Fit a levelled batten to the wall, with the top of the batten one tile up, and lay everything upwards from that. If you use tile spacers, having all rows level should follow from that. It also avoids tiling around the room and finding that the tiles don't meet at the same height. Once everything has set, remove the batten and finish off the bottom row. Colin Bignell |
#7
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 26/06/2012 13:57, Nightjar wrote:
On 26/06/2012 12:53, Andrew Gabriel wrote: Something else I've been careful about - getting adjacent tiles level with each other. I've seen plenty of examples of professional tiling where that's not been done, and it really shows (to me anyway). You just need a short piece of wood (perhaps 1.5 tiles long) which you can lay on the tile as you tap it into the adhesive bed, so you can see when it's level with the next tile(s). Fit a levelled batten to the wall, with the top of the batten one tile up, and lay everything upwards from that. If you use tile spacers, having all rows level should follow from that. It also avoids tiling around the room and finding that the tiles don't meet at the same height. Once everything has set, remove the batten and finish off the bottom row. Colin Bignell I think that by level Andrew means 'in the same plane as'. I've seen the same where each adjacent tile lines up with the ones next to it but such that any reflection in the tile is different in each tile. A bit like a true leaded-light window. |
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 26/06/2012 13:57, Nightjar wrote:
On 26/06/2012 12:53, Andrew Gabriel wrote: Something else I've been careful about - getting adjacent tiles level with each other. I've seen plenty of examples of professional tiling where that's not been done, and it really shows (to me anyway). You just need a short piece of wood (perhaps 1.5 tiles long) which you can lay on the tile as you tap it into the adhesive bed, so you can see when it's level with the next tile(s). Fit a levelled batten to the wall, with the top of the batten one tile up, and lay everything upwards from that. If you use tile spacers, having all rows level should follow from that. It also avoids tiling around the room and finding that the tiles don't meet at the same height. Once everything has set, remove the batten and finish off the bottom row. One of those cases where the rotating spot laser levels are quite handy for setting out the battens. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 26/06/2012 11:34, Fred wrote:
Hi, As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we Yes good point. There used to be some pointers to external sites IIRC. could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? Sounds like a good plan. Drop me an email, and I will create you a wiki account ;-) I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps we could include: Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room. Its a design choice rather than a technical one generally. The bigger the tile, the flatter the walls need to be though. Rules of thumb about the space between tiles? Preference again, but 3mm is common on walls, and more (5 to 10mm) on floors. Tiles with a "waney" edge may well need more. What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better? Bigger notches are probably more use on floors. Again a little depends on how much levelling you are needing to do. I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for? Not seen one... A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always It also tends to stick like grout and grout like glue! It does not have the "grab" of a good adhesive IME. used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they better, and how to mix them? Powdered are often cement based, and hence will set even if wet. Ready mixed are usually acrylic and set by "drying out" - hence the problem of slow cure times on impervious backgrounds. If mixing any quantity, then a flexibly trug type mixing bucket and a mixing paddle in a drill works well for upto 20 - 30kg at a time. Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood. Yup. Line floorboards with 1/4 or 3/8th WBP ply first. Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same batch to avoid variation in colour. Indeed. If you cant do that, then mix up the batches before you start laying so the changes are spread around somewhat randomly. Here are a couple of questions that would really help me: I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I do first, or doesn't it matter? Wall, that way you don't have to worry about making a mess on the floor or dropping a tile on it! I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but... Take plenty of time marking everything out first and planning where things will end up. If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones 10mm seen as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door? What all the spare left over broken bits - na someone will notice! Well, there's a few things to start with Good layout is partly logic and partly art. Things like a half tile at one end can look ok, especially if you can use the other half to carry on the adjacent wall - then it looks like your tile goes round the corner. However you have to take care to check the walls a plumb. A half tile at one end, and then widening slip of a tile for half the wall height at the other would look far less attractive than a quarter wither end. When things are running out of square, its easier to eye up the error when lines that should be parallel are close to each other. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#10
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 26/06/2012 14:46, Andrew May wrote:
On 26/06/2012 13:57, Nightjar wrote: On 26/06/2012 12:53, Andrew Gabriel wrote: Something else I've been careful about - getting adjacent tiles level with each other. I've seen plenty of examples of professional tiling where that's not been done, and it really shows (to me anyway). You just need a short piece of wood (perhaps 1.5 tiles long) which you can lay on the tile as you tap it into the adhesive bed, so you can see when it's level with the next tile(s). Fit a levelled batten to the wall, with the top of the batten one tile up, and lay everything upwards from that. If you use tile spacers, having all rows level should follow from that. It also avoids tiling around the room and finding that the tiles don't meet at the same height. Once everything has set, remove the batten and finish off the bottom row. Colin Bignell I think that by level Andrew means 'in the same plane as'. I've seen the same where each adjacent tile lines up with the ones next to it but such that any reflection in the tile is different in each tile. A bit like a true leaded-light window. I would describe that as flatness and is something I would judge by eye. Nevertheless, I hope my suggestion is useful to the faq. Colin Bignell |
#11
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On Jun 26, 11:34*am, Fred wrote:
Hi, As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps we could include: Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room. Rules of thumb about the space between tiles? What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better? I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for? A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they better, and how to mix them? Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood. Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same batch to avoid variation in colour. Here are a couple of questions that would really help me: I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I do first, or doesn't it matter? I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but... If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones 10mm seen as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door? Well, there's a few things to start with So... Adhesive Grout Lithofin et al Tile size Tile spacing Substrate (choice & preparation) Layout styles (square, mosaic, gaudi, diagonal etc) Tile cutting - can just link to existing wiki article Quantity estimating Cost cutting (cement as adhesive, gaudi style, cleaning used tiles etc) Corners (plastic strip, round edged tiles, bare biscuit) Pros and cons of tiles Its a lot to cover in one article, especially as there are multiple options for most of those headings. Covering any of it is all good stuff. NT |
#12
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 26/06/2012 17:56, NT wrote:
On Jun 26, 11:34 am, wrote: Hi, As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps we could include: Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room. Rules of thumb about the space between tiles? What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better? I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for? A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they better, and how to mix them? Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood. Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same batch to avoid variation in colour. Here are a couple of questions that would really help me: I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I do first, or doesn't it matter? I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but... If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones10mm seen as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door? Well, there's a few things to start with So... Adhesive Grout Lithofin et al Tile size Tile spacing Substrate (choice& preparation) Layout styles (square, mosaic, gaudi, diagonal etc) Tile cutting - can just link to existing wiki article Quantity estimating Cost cutting (cement as adhesive, gaudi style, cleaning used tiles etc) Corners (plastic strip, round edged tiles, bare biscuit) Pros and cons of tiles Its a lot to cover in one article, especially as there are multiple options for most of those headings. Covering any of it is all good stuff. NT I didn't recognise the term "bare biscuit" so Googled it - my education has been broadened but I don't see that it's got a lot to do with tiling !! |
#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On Jun 26, 6:27*pm, Nospam wrote:
On 26/06/2012 17:56, NT wrote: On Jun 26, 11:34 am, *wrote: Hi, As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps we could include: Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room. Rules of thumb about the space between tiles? What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better? I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for? A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they better, and how to mix them? Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood. Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same batch to avoid variation in colour. Here are a couple of questions that would really help me: I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I do first, or doesn't it matter? I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but... If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones10mm seen as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door? Well, there's a few things to start with So... Adhesive Grout Lithofin et al Tile size Tile spacing Substrate (choice& *preparation) Layout styles (square, mosaic, gaudi, diagonal etc) Tile cutting - can just link to existing wiki article Quantity estimating Cost cutting (cement as adhesive, gaudi style, cleaning used tiles etc) Corners (plastic strip, round edged tiles, bare biscuit) Pros and cons of tiles Its a lot to cover in one article, especially as there are multiple options for most of those headings. Covering any of it is all good stuff. NT I didn't recognise the term "bare biscuit" so Googled it - my education has been broadened but I don't see that it's got a lot to do with tiling !! I dont know if this will be clear or not... .. ______________ .. |______________ .. | | .. | | .. | | A corner arrangement like that leaves the biscut bare NT |
#14
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:35:34 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: [about V-notch trowels] Not seen one... To answer my own question, it seems they are used for mosaics: http://www.tilegiant.co.uk/3mm-v-notched-trowel.html Perhaps it is easier to make them V-shaped rather than square because at that small size the "teeth" of a square version might get bent out of alignment too easily? There is also a trowel with 45 degree teeth: http://www.protilertools.co.uk/rubi-...l-trowel-75946 I'm not quite sure what the advantage of that is? [about half tiles] What all the spare left over broken bits - na someone will notice! I wasn't suggesting using the two leftover halves to fill a one tile space! Sorry for not making that clear. I was meaning that if a wall had to have a half tile at the end of a row, should I make sure that the half tile would be behind the door or behind the toilet, where it would be less visible? |
#15
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:27:58 +0100, Nospam
wrote: I didn't recognise the term "bare biscuit" so Googled it - my education has been broadened but I don't see that it's got a lot to do with tiling !! The biscuit is the piece of clay that the tile is made from. Usually it is a salmon colour. The front and sides of the tile are covered by the glaze but it is what you see when you look at the back of the tile. If you cut a tile, you remove the glazed edge and the biscuit becomes visible. I think biscuit is French for twice cooked. I guess the clay is baked once to make a hard tile and then has the glaze applied and is baked a second time to set the glaze. If you are tiling around a window recess or other external corner, you might use a trim to hide the edge of the tile.I think NT was suggesting that you might deliberately not use plastic trim and leave the biscuit exposed, hence "bare biscuit". I typed it into google thinking you had found something naughty but all I found was talk about digestives, custard creams, etc. HTH |
#16
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:19:28 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: One of those cases where the rotating spot laser levels are quite handy for setting out the battens. I think in their final days Focus were selling these for £5 but I never got around to buying one. I have got a non-rotating B&D one which is quite useful for this kind of thing. Does a rotating one have any advantage? I guess it does all four walls in one go? |
#17
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 26/06/2012 20:54, Fred wrote:
.... snipped I typed it into google thinking you had found something naughty but all I found was talk about digestives, custard creams, etc. HTH You must have a filter ... I searched for tiling "bare biscuit" and the results were in the "very naughty" category .... but now I understand what was originally meant, as well as feeling slightly inadequate in other departments ;-( |
#18
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 26/06/2012 20:56, Fred wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:19:28 +0100, John Rumm wrote: One of those cases where the rotating spot laser levels are quite handy for setting out the battens. I think in their final days Focus were selling these for £5 but I never got around to buying one. I have got a non-rotating B&D one which is quite useful for this kind of thing. Does a rotating one have any advantage? I guess it does all four walls in one go? Yup, that's basically it - you get a line round a whole room, and know the ends will join up. (also quite handy when working alone, since you don't need to point it at your target as you move about to set out) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#19
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 26/06/2012 20:45, Fred wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:35:34 +0100, John Rumm wrote: [about V-notch trowels] Not seen one... To answer my own question, it seems they are used for mosaics: http://www.tilegiant.co.uk/3mm-v-notched-trowel.html Perhaps it is easier to make them V-shaped rather than square because at that small size the "teeth" of a square version might get bent out of alignment too easily? I would imagine its just to place smaller beads - which might make it easier to level very small (i.e. mosaic) tiles, where a conventional notched trowel could leave some completely unglued. There is also a trowel with 45 degree teeth: http://www.protilertools.co.uk/rubi-...l-trowel-75946 I'm not quite sure what the advantage of that is? Means you cant stick down too shallow a bead by using a shallow angle on the trowel... [about half tiles] What all the spare left over broken bits - na someone will notice! I wasn't suggesting using the two leftover halves to fill a one tile space! Sorry for not making that clear. I was meaning that if a wall Tis ok, I was not being serious - it could be read as leaving all the offcuts piled up behind the loo! ;-) had to have a half tile at the end of a row, should I make sure that the half tile would be behind the door or behind the toilet, where it would be less visible? Generally its a good idea not to place the ugly bits where you see them as you walk in the room (or for that matter while "contemplating" on the throne!) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#20
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On Jun 27, 3:51*am, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/06/2012 20:45, Fred wrote: On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:35:34 +0100, John Rumm wrote: [about V-notch trowels] Not seen one... To answer my own question, it seems they are used for mosaics: http://www.tilegiant.co.uk/3mm-v-notched-trowel.html Perhaps it is easier to make them V-shaped rather than square because at that small size the "teeth" of a square version might get bent out of alignment too easily? I would imagine its just to place smaller beads - which might make it easier to level very small (i.e. mosaic) tiles, where a conventional notched trowel could leave some completely unglued. There is also a trowel with 45 degree teeth: http://www.protilertools.co.uk/rubi-...38/rubi-6mm-x-... I'm not quite sure what the advantage of that is? Means you cant stick down too shallow a bead by using a shallow angle on the trowel... [about half tiles] What all the spare left over broken bits - na someone will notice! I wasn't suggesting using the two leftover halves to fill a one tile space! Sorry for not making that clear. I was meaning that if a wall Tis ok, I was not being serious - it could be read as leaving all the offcuts piled up behind the loo! ;-) had to have a half tile at the end of a row, should I make sure that the half tile would be behind the door or behind the toilet, where it would be less visible? Generally its a good idea not to place the ugly bits where you see them as you walk in the room (or for that matter while "contemplating" on the throne!) Its often a good idea to start tiling at the cenrte of a run, so you get the same size offcuts each end. Mirrors look better when the tiling behind them is symmetrical to the mirror. None of these things are hard fast rules, just see what looks best. NT |
#21
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On Jun 26, 11:34*am, Fred wrote:
Hi, As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? Its a start... http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ded_edge_tiles NT ==Adhesive types== ===Powder or tub=== Premixed tubs are convenient and more expensive, and don't store as well. Once opened they tend to set over a few days. ===Dual purpose grout & adhesive=== Products intended to do both do both poorly. Not recommended. ===Water resistant=== Water resistant adhesive is needed for shower and over bath use. More basic types fall off after a bit. ===Sand and cement=== 3:1 sand and cement has long been used to lay tiles. * Very cheap * Strong & durable * Unaffected by [[water]] * The tiles must be soaked in water overnight. * The main downsides are the short open time and long cure time. ** Only set out a smallish area at a time ** Smooth the surface ** Place tiles on promptly. * For floor tiles, keep foot traffic off for 3 days * Not a popular method any more, modern tile adhesives are easier to work with. ===Epoxy=== [[Epoxy]] grout is primarily for swimming pools. Its pricey. Durability is excellent. ==Adhesive laying== Wall tiles on an even surface use a notched adhesive bed, applied with a notched edge. Plastic spreaders soon wear out, use a metal one. Wall tiles on an uneven surface use 5 blobs of adhesive per tile. This gives much more adjustability. The end result isn't quite as abuseproof, as there are unsupported spaces behind the tile, but its not usually an issue. Floor tiles require very solid support, large notches in the bed should be avoided. Blobs are no use with floor tiles, not enough support. ==Grout types== Basic grouts aren't waterproof. Tile adhesive can be used for grouting, but isn't ideal. ==Grouting== Grout is usually applied with a rubber edge. Push grout well into the joints, go over them repeatedly to get as much in as possible. Use the rubbed edge at 45 degrees to the grout lines to get a good final grout shape. It is possible to grout small areas with a finger, but this leaves a rougher surface which isn't ideal. When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face. Wring the sponge out in clean water repeatedly. If done too soon, the joint grout is affected. If done to late, the tiles don't clean up, and surface grout film then needs removing with a plastic scourer. Finally, lithofin & similar treatments make grout wipeable [[clean]]. This makes a big difference to long term appearance. ==Grout reviving== First clean as well as possible then bleach. A plastic scourer can be used if scraping is necessary. If grout's in a weak condition it can pull out. Grout reviver is just grout. Scrape the grout surface clean, and wipe on new grout with a finger. when set, clean the tile faces. ==Tile size== ==Tile spacing== (gap size, how to space evenly) ==Substrate== (choice & preparation) ==Layout styles== (square, mosaic, gaudi, diagonal etc) ==Layout== (where to put the part size tiles, centring, software etc) ==Order of work== ==Tile cutting== link to existing wiki article ==Quantity estimating== ==Cost cutting== (cement as adhesive, gaudi style, cleaning used tiles, faux stone, etc). See ==Corners== There are 3 main ways to do external corners (eg the front of a [[window]] ledge) ===Plastic strip=== Rounded [[plastic]] strip is popular and easy. Prone to becoming harder to keep clean than glazed tile after many years. Too often the plastic strip won't match the tile in colour. ===Rounded edge tiles=== Tiles with rounded over edges are available in some tile ranges. These work very well, but cost more than the usual tiles. ===Some title=== A more basic way to finish external corners is simply to use the tiles and nothing else, like so: ______________ |______________ | | | | | | | | If the tile biscuit colour matches the glaze, the edge biscuit can be left visible. If it doesn't, grount can be applied to make it match the grout lines. If the tiles aren't too bulky, the resulting joint looks much like another grout line. People's reactions to such joints vary, some people like them fine, some don't. ==Pros and cons of tiles== ==Showers== A waterproof membrane is best practice under the tiling to prevent [[water]] penetration to [[wood]]work, but few of us use them. [[Adhesive]] and grout must be water resistant. Lithofin etc helps keep the grout clean Rough surfaced tiles are harder to clean ==Seals== Grout is best in corners not prone to movement, ie where masonry meets masonry, and no cracking has happened over time. Corners prone to any movement should use a flexible sealant. * Ms polymer lasts well but discolours a bit * [[Silicone]] goes black with mould after a while. Use [[mould]] resistant to delay this, but its still fairly inevitable Plastic strip is usually used over sinks & baths. It sits behind tiles, with the flexible edge protruding and pressing against the bath or sink. ==Tile buying== Wall tiles aren't suitable for floor use. They're too thin and slippery. Tile colours can vary slightly between batches. If you can't get them all with the same batch number, slight variation can usually be hidden by any of: * mixing the batches up randomly * changing batch at a corner Occasionally batches are too different to mix at all. Hold tiles from different batches side by side before buying to check they match near enough. when transported, tiles sat vertically are a lot less likely to break than if placed horizontally. ==Windows== Sometimes its possible to suround a window with whole tiles all round. Aligning a ring of tiles round a window is harder than doing a straight line, and typically requires adjusting the tile positions slightly The cill position can sometimes be moved up or down slightly to match. The new cill tiles can be supoprted on broken tiles cemented in and positioned edge up, spaced around 1/4" apart. A slight slope to a tile cill reduces water retention and mould. ==Repair== To remove a tile, first scrape out the grout all around it. Then what happens to it won't detach neighbouring tiles. ==UFH== ==Colour== Colour is a matter of taste of course, but there are some choices better avoided. The author has seen a house with smallish windows made rather gloomy by laying dark floor tiles. Black tiles show up limescale badly. ==See also== [[Category:Tiling]] |
#22
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
NT wrote:
On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred wrote: Hi, As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? Its a start... http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ded_edge_tiles NT ==Adhesive types== ===Powder or tub=== Premixed tubs are convenient and more expensive, and don't store as well. Once opened they tend to set over a few days. Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix. ===Dual purpose grout & adhesive=== Products intended to do both do both poorly. Not recommended. ===Water resistant=== Water resistant adhesive is needed for shower and over bath use. More basic types fall off after a bit. ===Sand and cement=== 3:1 sand and cement has long been used to lay tiles. * Very cheap * Strong & durable * Unaffected by [[water]] * The tiles must be soaked in water overnight. * The main downsides are the short open time and long cure time. ** Only set out a smallish area at a time ** Smooth the surface ** Place tiles on promptly. * For floor tiles, keep foot traffic off for 3 days * Not a popular method any more, modern tile adhesives are easier to work with. ===Epoxy=== [[Epoxy]] grout is primarily for swimming pools. Its pricey. Durability is excellent. ==Adhesive laying== Wall tiles on an even surface use a notched adhesive bed, applied with a notched edge. Plastic spreaders soon wear out, use a metal one. Wall tiles on an uneven surface use 5 blobs of adhesive per tile. This gives much more adjustability. The end result isn't quite as abuseproof, as there are unsupported spaces behind the tile, but its not usually an issue. Floor tiles require very solid support, large notches in the bed should be avoided. Blobs are no use with floor tiles, not enough support. ==Grout types== Basic grouts aren't waterproof. Tile adhesive can be used for grouting, but isn't ideal. ==Grouting== Grout is usually applied with a rubber edge. Push grout well into the joints, go over them repeatedly to get as much in as possible. Use the rubbed edge at 45 degrees to the grout lines to get a good final grout shape. It is possible to grout small areas with a finger, but this leaves a rougher surface which isn't ideal. When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face. ^^^ to A proper tiler's sponge is best. Wring the sponge out in clean water repeatedly. If done too soon, the ^^ Wring joint grout is affected. If done to late, the tiles don't clean up, and surface grout film then needs removing with a plastic scourer. Finally, lithofin & similar treatments make grout wipeable [[clean]]. This makes a big difference to long term appearance. .... -- Tim Watts |
#23
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On Jun 28, 7:49*am, Tim Watts wrote:
NT wrote: On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred wrote: Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix. It depends entirely on the mix. There are really no rules that some types are sold wet, some dry. When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face. * * * * * * ^^^ to A proper tiler's sponge is best. Do you know what's better about it? Wring the sponge out in clean water repeatedly. If done too soon, the * *^^ Wring NT |
#24
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
NT wrote:
On Jun 28, 7:49 am, Tim Watts wrote: NT wrote: On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred wrote: Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix. It depends entirely on the mix. There are really no rules that some types are sold wet, some dry. When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face. ^^^ to A proper tiler's sponge is best. Do you know what's better about it? Not in any great detail - but my observations a a) It does not crumble like some cheap sponges; b) Fairly fine, uniform and holds a lot of water; c) Usefully sized and cuboid. I suspect much has to do with it being a quality sponge rather than a random bath sponge. -- Tim Watts |
#25
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 28/06/2012 07:49, Tim Watts wrote:
When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face. ^^^ to A proper tiler's sponge is best. Also once wiped down a couple of times, I find it much quicker to let the film dry, and then give it a dry polish with a cloth to remove the remaining - otherwise you can play the get rid of that white film residue game almost indefinitely! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#26
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On 28/06/2012 09:47, NT wrote:
On Jun 28, 7:49 am, Tim Watts wrote: NT wrote: On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred wrote: Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix. It depends entirely on the mix. There are really no rules that some types are sold wet, some dry. When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face. ^^^ to A proper tiler's sponge is best. Do you know what's better about it? Its firmer (often a latex type block) and so is less likely to rake out more grout than wanted. Its also more abrasion resistant - so does not get all roughed up and start leaving bits of sponge all over the joints. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#27
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
tiling faqs
On Jun 26, 11:34*am, Fred wrote:
Hi, As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a relative do some tiling. I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be copied and pasted into a new section? I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps we could include: Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room. Rules of thumb about the space between tiles? What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better? I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for? A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they better, and how to mix them? Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood. Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same batch to avoid variation in colour. Here are a couple of questions that would really help me: I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I do first, or doesn't it matter? I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but... If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones 10mm seen as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door? Well, there's a few things to start with Most of this stuff hasnt been put in the wiki article. I dont plan to add it. http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Tiling_FAQ NT |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Maple Story Guide: FAQs and other General Questions | Woodworking | |||
RFID FAQs - RFID Companies, Equipment, Medical ... | Electronics Repair | |||
Tiling Qs | UK diy | |||
Yamaha CDX-700. Skipping. Read FAQs for this but no joy. | Electronics Repair | |||
This sudden rush of FAQs | UK diy |