Hi,

I have been asked to tile my brother-in-law's downstairs toilet (I've
never understood why they are called "cloakrooms" when they are not
used to store coats).

It is wallpapered at the moment. He would like it tiled to dado-rail
height and keep it wallpapered above this level. The one wall looks
pretty awful. The plaster has blown near the bottom of the wall, which
is one reason that he wants work done on the room.

When I tiled my own bathroom, one wall was not even and I had naively
hoped that I could use the adhesive to level out the imperfections in
the wall. I am not happy with the results to this day. I would like to
redo that one wall, when I get round to it.

I've learnt my lesson and I think the best thing to do would be to
make good the toilet wall before tiling. I think I could do any of the
following:

1. skim the wall with plaster
2. fit plasterboard to the wall.
3. fit plywood to the wall.

I know 9mm is not much but with this being a small toilet, I'm not
sure I would want to put plasterboard on the walls and make the room
any smaller. OTOH perhaps I am being silly to worry about 18mm?

I think he was hoping I would tile the bottom half of the wall without
disturbing the top half. The problem with this is that it stops me
using the plasterboard approach as this would make the bottom half
protrude more (9mm+tile width) than the top half IYSWIM.

Perhaps I could use something thinner to line the walls. I could skim
with plaster or I see the Wickes web site sells 3mm plywood. I've
never seen that before. I wonder if that would be any good? Would a
grab adhesive be sufficient to hold it or would you use (stainless)
screws?

Or should I tell him I need to do the job properly, line the whole
wall and redecorate the top half at the same time. It's more work but
a better result and what I would be tempted to do in my own home.

Any other advice about tiling over uneven walls?

TIA

On Jun 23, 10:03*pm, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I have been asked to tile my brother-in-law's downstairs toilet (I've
never understood why they are called "cloakrooms" when they are not
used to store coats).

It is wallpapered at the moment. He would like it tiled to dado-rail
height and keep it wallpapered above this level. The one wall looks
pretty awful. The plaster has blown near the bottom of the wall, which
is one reason that he wants work done on the room.

When I tiled my own bathroom, one wall was not even and I had naively
hoped that I could use the adhesive to level out the imperfections in
the wall. I am not happy with the results to this day. I would like to
redo that one wall, when I get round to it.

I've learnt my lesson and I think the best thing to do would be to
make good the toilet wall before tiling. I think I could do any of the
following:

1. skim the wall with plaster
2. fit plasterboard to the wall.
3. fit plywood to the wall.

I know 9mm is not much but with this being a small toilet, I'm not
sure I would want to put plasterboard on the walls and make the room
any smaller. OTOH perhaps I am being silly to worry about 18mm?

I think he was hoping I would tile the bottom half of the wall without
disturbing the top half. The problem with this is that it stops me
using the plasterboard approach as this would make the bottom half
protrude *more (9mm+tile width) than the top half IYSWIM.

Perhaps I could use something thinner to line the walls. I could skim
with plaster or I see the Wickes web site sells 3mm plywood. I've
never seen that before. I wonder if that would be any good? Would a
grab adhesive be sufficient to hold it or would you use (stainless)
screws?

Or should I tell him I need to do the job properly, line the whole
wall and redecorate the top half at the same time. It's more work but
a better result and what I would be tempted to do in my own home.

Any other advice about tiling over uneven walls?

TIA

So all you need to do is flll the blown bits? And scrape it flat with
a 2x1.

I don't see any reason to pb it, and I certainly wouldnt tile onto 3mm
ply. Any tiling substrate must be rock hard.


NT

NT wrote:
On Jun 23, 10:03 pm, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I have been asked to tile my brother-in-law's downstairs toilet (I've
never understood why they are called "cloakrooms" when they are not
used to store coats).

It is wallpapered at the moment. He would like it tiled to dado-rail
height and keep it wallpapered above this level. The one wall looks
pretty awful. The plaster has blown near the bottom of the wall, which
is one reason that he wants work done on the room.

When I tiled my own bathroom, one wall was not even and I had naively
hoped that I could use the adhesive to level out the imperfections in
the wall. I am not happy with the results to this day. I would like to
redo that one wall, when I get round to it.

I've learnt my lesson and I think the best thing to do would be to
make good the toilet wall before tiling. I think I could do any of the
following:

1. skim the wall with plaster
2. fit plasterboard to the wall.
3. fit plywood to the wall.

I know 9mm is not much but with this being a small toilet, I'm not
sure I would want to put plasterboard on the walls and make the room
any smaller. OTOH perhaps I am being silly to worry about 18mm?

I think he was hoping I would tile the bottom half of the wall without
disturbing the top half. The problem with this is that it stops me
using the plasterboard approach as this would make the bottom half
protrude more (9mm+tile width) than the top half IYSWIM.

Perhaps I could use something thinner to line the walls. I could skim
with plaster or I see the Wickes web site sells 3mm plywood. I've
never seen that before. I wonder if that would be any good? Would a
grab adhesive be sufficient to hold it or would you use (stainless)
screws?

Or should I tell him I need to do the job properly, line the whole
wall and redecorate the top half at the same time. It's more work but
a better result and what I would be tempted to do in my own home.

Any other advice about tiling over uneven walls?

TIA

So all you need to do is flll the blown bits? And scrape it flat with
a 2x1.

I don't see any reason to pb it, and I certainly wouldnt tile onto 3mm
ply. Any tiling substrate must be rock hard.



I tend to agree. I would get some bits of wood as long as the wall and
simply reskim it using the wood as a guide and or scraper.
You don't need a brilliant finish - just an even one - for tiling over

NT


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On 24/06/2012 02:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 23, 10:03 pm, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I have been asked to tile my brother-in-law's downstairs toilet (I've
never understood why they are called "cloakrooms" when they are not
used to store coats).

It is wallpapered at the moment. He would like it tiled to dado-rail
height and keep it wallpapered above this level. The one wall looks
pretty awful. The plaster has blown near the bottom of the wall, which
is one reason that he wants work done on the room.

When I tiled my own bathroom, one wall was not even and I had naively
hoped that I could use the adhesive to level out the imperfections in
the wall. I am not happy with the results to this day. I would like to
redo that one wall, when I get round to it.

I've learnt my lesson and I think the best thing to do would be to
make good the toilet wall before tiling. I think I could do any of the
following:

1. skim the wall with plaster
2. fit plasterboard to the wall.
3. fit plywood to the wall.

I know 9mm is not much but with this being a small toilet, I'm not
sure I would want to put plasterboard on the walls and make the room
any smaller. OTOH perhaps I am being silly to worry about 18mm?

I think he was hoping I would tile the bottom half of the wall without
disturbing the top half. The problem with this is that it stops me
using the plasterboard approach as this would make the bottom half
protrude more (9mm+tile width) than the top half IYSWIM.

Perhaps I could use something thinner to line the walls. I could skim
with plaster or I see the Wickes web site sells 3mm plywood. I've
never seen that before. I wonder if that would be any good? Would a
grab adhesive be sufficient to hold it or would you use (stainless)
screws?

Or should I tell him I need to do the job properly, line the whole
wall and redecorate the top half at the same time. It's more work but
a better result and what I would be tempted to do in my own home.

Any other advice about tiling over uneven walls?

TIA

So all you need to do is flll the blown bits? And scrape it flat with
a 2x1.

I don't see any reason to pb it, and I certainly wouldnt tile onto 3mm
ply. Any tiling substrate must be rock hard.



I tend to agree. I would get some bits of wood as long as the wall and
simply reskim it using the wood as a guide and or scraper.
You don't need a brilliant finish - just an even one - for tiling over

NT


Ready mix tile adhesive makes a good skim. I used it when I had a huge
tub left over from a previous job. Nice and light, and feathers down to
a fine edge. Dries quickly. Not too different to the ready mix patching
plaster type products from Wickes etc

On 24/06/2012 08:16, stuart noble wrote:
On 24/06/2012 02:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
NT wrote:
On Jun 23, 10:03 pm, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I have been asked to tile my brother-in-law's downstairs toilet (I've
never understood why they are called "cloakrooms" when they are not
used to store coats).

It is wallpapered at the moment. He would like it tiled to dado-rail
height and keep it wallpapered above this level. The one wall looks
pretty awful. The plaster has blown near the bottom of the wall, which
is one reason that he wants work done on the room.

When I tiled my own bathroom, one wall was not even and I had naively
hoped that I could use the adhesive to level out the imperfections in
the wall. I am not happy with the results to this day. I would like to
redo that one wall, when I get round to it.

I've learnt my lesson and I think the best thing to do would be to
make good the toilet wall before tiling. I think I could do any of the
following:

1. skim the wall with plaster
2. fit plasterboard to the wall.
3. fit plywood to the wall.

I know 9mm is not much but with this being a small toilet, I'm not
sure I would want to put plasterboard on the walls and make the room
any smaller. OTOH perhaps I am being silly to worry about 18mm?

I think he was hoping I would tile the bottom half of the wall without
disturbing the top half. The problem with this is that it stops me
using the plasterboard approach as this would make the bottom half
protrude more (9mm+tile width) than the top half IYSWIM.

Perhaps I could use something thinner to line the walls. I could skim
with plaster or I see the Wickes web site sells 3mm plywood. I've
never seen that before. I wonder if that would be any good? Would a
grab adhesive be sufficient to hold it or would you use (stainless)
screws?

Or should I tell him I need to do the job properly, line the whole
wall and redecorate the top half at the same time. It's more work but
a better result and what I would be tempted to do in my own home.

Any other advice about tiling over uneven walls?

TIA

So all you need to do is flll the blown bits? And scrape it flat with
a 2x1.

I don't see any reason to pb it, and I certainly wouldnt tile onto 3mm
ply. Any tiling substrate must be rock hard.



I tend to agree. I would get some bits of wood as long as the wall and
simply reskim it using the wood as a guide and or scraper.
You don't need a brilliant finish - just an even one - for tiling over

NT


Ready mix tile adhesive makes a good skim. I used it when I had a huge
tub left over from a previous job. Nice and light, and feathers down to
a fine edge. Dries quickly. Not too different to the ready mix patching
plaster type products from Wickes etc


Indeed - and key in to brick if the plaster's blown.

Rob

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:23:22 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

So all you need to do is flll the blown bits? And scrape it flat with
a 2x1.

I don't see any reason to pb it, and I certainly wouldnt tile onto 3mm
ply. Any tiling substrate must be rock hard.

Thanks. I think the blown plaster is only part of the problem; I think
the wall is pretty uneven where the plaster is sound too.

I have never seen 3mm ply in real life, only on their web site last
night. I agree it must be very flexible but OTOH once fixed to the
wall, wouldn't it be as rigid as the wall?

That is only an academic question because I will take your advice and
reskim.

Thanks.

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:18:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


I tend to agree. I would get some bits of wood as long as the wall and
simply reskim it using the wood as a guide and or scraper.

Thanks, that's what I will do. I'll use some wood as a derby (darby?)
and reskim. I'm not sure whether to use real plaster, patching
plaster, or tiling adhesive. I'll see what I've got in the garage
already

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 08:16:02 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

Ready mix tile adhesive makes a good skim. I used it when I had a huge
tub left over from a previous job. Nice and light, and feathers down to
a fine edge. Dries quickly. Not too different to the ready mix patching
plaster type products from Wickes etc

Perhaps the trick is to do this in two stages: skim with adhesive and
let it dry and then apply a second coat of adhesive for the tiles? I
got into trouble when I tried to do it all in one step. I think using
tile adhesive is probably more expensive than using plaster but if you
have some left over from another job, then that's different. Thanks.

Fred wrote:
Hi,

I have been asked to tile my brother-in-law's downstairs toilet (I've
never understood why they are called "cloakrooms" when they are not
used to store coats).

It is wallpapered at the moment. He would like it tiled to dado-rail
height and keep it wallpapered above this level. The one wall looks
pretty awful. The plaster has blown near the bottom of the wall, which
is one reason that he wants work done on the room.

When I tiled my own bathroom, one wall was not even and I had naively
hoped that I could use the adhesive to level out the imperfections in
the wall. I am not happy with the results to this day. I would like to
redo that one wall, when I get round to it.

I've learnt my lesson and I think the best thing to do would be to
make good the toilet wall before tiling. I think I could do any of the
following:

1. skim the wall with plaster
2. fit plasterboard to the wall.
3. fit plywood to the wall.

I know 9mm is not much but with this being a small toilet, I'm not
sure I would want to put plasterboard on the walls and make the room
any smaller. OTOH perhaps I am being silly to worry about 18mm?

Yes, 18mm won't make any difference


I think he was hoping I would tile the bottom half of the wall without
disturbing the top half. The problem with this is that it stops me
using the plasterboard approach as this would make the bottom half
protrude more (9mm+tile width) than the top half IYSWIM.

But it wouldn't be noticable if you are adding a dado rail


Perhaps I could use something thinner to line the walls. I could skim
with plaster or I see the Wickes web site sells 3mm plywood. I've
never seen that before. I wonder if that would be any good? Would a
grab adhesive be sufficient to hold it or would you use (stainless)
screws?

Or should I tell him I need to do the job properly, line the whole
wall and redecorate the top half at the same time. It's more work but
a better result and what I would be tempted to do in my own home.

Any other advice about tiling over uneven walls?

Tile straight onto plasterboard - it's flat and tilers prefer it to a
plastered wall.
Simply stick the PB on the wall with adhesive and tile over, sit a dado rail
on top of the edge of PB and tile up to it.
It's only the one wall that needs PB, the rest can just be tiled over what's
there, but I'd still put a wooden rail around the lot.

Fred wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:23:22 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

So all you need to do is flll the blown bits? And scrape it flat with
a 2x1.

I don't see any reason to pb it, and I certainly wouldnt tile onto 3mm
ply. Any tiling substrate must be rock hard.

Thanks. I think the blown plaster is only part of the problem; I think
the wall is pretty uneven where the plaster is sound too.

I have never seen 3mm ply in real life, only on their web site last
night. I agree it must be very flexible but OTOH once fixed to the
wall, wouldn't it be as rigid as the wall?

Blimey. You obviously have never built any models or repaired any caravans..

That is only an academic question because I will take your advice and
reskim.

Thanks.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

Fred wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:18:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I tend to agree. I would get some bits of wood as long as the wall and
simply reskim it using the wood as a guide and or scraper.

Thanks, that's what I will do. I'll use some wood as a derby (darby?)
and reskim. I'm not sure whether to use real plaster, patching
plaster, or tiling adhesive. I'll see what I've got in the garage
already

I have used anything and everything.

As long as it keys together. Bits of wood car body filler sand and
cement old tile adhesive..use anything to hand.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

On Jun 24, 10:37*am, Fred wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:23:22 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

So all you need to do is flll the blown bits? And scrape it flat with
a 2x1.

I don't see any reason to pb it, and I certainly wouldnt tile onto 3mm
ply. Any tiling substrate must be rock hard.

Thanks. I think the blown plaster is only part of the problem; I think
the wall is pretty uneven where the plaster is sound too.

I have never seen 3mm ply in real life, only on their web site last
night. I agree it must be very flexible but OTOH once fixed to the
wall, wouldn't it be as rigid as the wall?

That is only an academic question because I will take your advice and
reskim.

Thanks.

12mm ply is rather flexible to tile onto. Some people do it, but its
always a risk of it coming adrift. 3mm might be rigid, but unless its
fixed every single square millimeter I wouldnt tile onto it. The ideal
tiling substrate is solid masonry.


NT

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:33:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Blimey. You obviously have never built any models or repaired any caravans..

Right on both counts

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 11:25:20 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

12mm ply is rather flexible to tile onto.

I never knew that. I always found 12mm ply wood to be quite rigid,
whereas 9mm and 6mm are quite flexible. I'm not planning to use it but
if plywood was needed, would you recommend 18mm? TIA

On Jun 25, 9:01*am, Fred wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 11:25:20 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

12mm ply is rather flexible to tile onto.

I never knew that. I always found 12mm ply wood to be quite rigid,
whereas 9mm and 6mm are quite flexible. I'm not planning to use it but
if plywood was needed, would you recommend 18mm? TIA

Quite rigid isnt good enough for reliable long lasting tiles. Sure,
you can do it, but I'd never choose it when something more solid's
available.


NT

On 24/06/2012 10:41, Fred wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 08:16:02 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

Ready mix tile adhesive makes a good skim. I used it when I had a huge
tub left over from a previous job. Nice and light, and feathers down to
a fine edge. Dries quickly. Not too different to the ready mix patching
plaster type products from Wickes etc

Perhaps the trick is to do this in two stages: skim with adhesive and
let it dry and then apply a second coat of adhesive for the tiles? I
got into trouble when I tried to do it all in one step. I think using
tile adhesive is probably more expensive than using plaster but if you
have some left over from another job, then that's different. Thanks.


Absolutely. If the air can get to it, it dries faster than plaster and
can be used in thick layers without sagging. Trying to pack tiles out as
you go is a different matter

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:50:31 +0100, "Phil L"
wrote:

Tile straight onto plasterboard - it's flat and tilers prefer it to a
plastered wall.
Simply stick the PB on the wall with adhesive and tile over, sit a dado rail
on top of the edge of PB and tile up to it.
It's only the one wall that needs PB, the rest can just be tiled over what's
there, but I'd still put a wooden rail around the lot.


I have been and had a look and although the wall is lumpy, it is not
as bad as I had thought. I may be able to skim the low bits and sand
the high bits to get a smooth surface.

If it were my house where the time and money was my own, I might still
chisel it all off and use plasterboard. I think that because they do
not want the hassle of re papering the top half of the wall, it is
making things a bit more complicated for me.

By the way, what do you prefer to fix the PB to the wall: foam or a
no-more-nails type of grab adhesive?

One last question: I will be tiling the floor as well. That currently
has those brittle plastic tiles on it. I removed some of these from my
last house and they were held on with some sort of bitumen glue. Would
you suggest I remove all the tiles and scrape off any glue and tile
direct to the concrete floor, or would you tile over the tiles? I
always thought tiling over tiles was cheating but I have read web
sites (albeit about wall tiles) talking about doing exactly this.

TIA

Fred wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:50:31 +0100, "Phil L"
wrote:

Tile straight onto plasterboard - it's flat and tilers prefer it to a
plastered wall.
Simply stick the PB on the wall with adhesive and tile over, sit a dado
rail on top of the edge of PB and tile up to it.
It's only the one wall that needs PB, the rest can just be tiled over
what's there, but I'd still put a wooden rail around the lot.


I have been and had a look and although the wall is lumpy, it is not
as bad as I had thought. I may be able to skim the low bits and sand
the high bits to get a smooth surface.

If it were my house where the time and money was my own, I might still
chisel it all off and use plasterboard. I think that because they do
not want the hassle of re papering the top half of the wall, it is
making things a bit more complicated for me.

By the way, what do you prefer to fix the PB to the wall: foam or a
no-more-nails type of grab adhesive?

One last question: I will be tiling the floor as well. That currently
has those brittle plastic tiles on it. I removed some of these from my
last house and they were held on with some sort of bitumen glue. Would
you suggest I remove all the tiles and scrape off any glue and tile
direct to the concrete floor, or would you tile over the tiles? I
always thought tiling over tiles was cheating but I have read web
sites (albeit about wall tiles) talking about doing exactly this.

TIA

If it is bitumen, you need at least 50% completely removed. Any adhesive,
other than bitumen applied on top will shear off after a few temperature
cycles.

One method I used was a scutch combe chisel in an SDS to groove the screed -
if you have grooves cut right through the bitumen exposing dry clean screed,
that's generally enough for tile adhesive to get a decent bond and as the
grooves are close, the tile gets good overally support. A good soaking in
diluted SBR helps too a day prior to tiling.

If it were rubber tile adhesive, get off what you can, but tile cement seems
to bond to that reasonably well - if it is tacky, blind it with a little
powdered tile adhesive.

--
Tim Watts