Hello all,

Some of you will remember that I have a strange gushing water sound coming
from the pipes in the garage. They resonate upstairs too. Well, after
turning off the tap in the road the noise stopped. This meant that there was
a problem between the service pipe and the stopcock. I found an inspection
chanber in the garage and lifted that, it contained another stopcock
(presumable the old one for the house before the renovations). this was 18
inches deep in standing water! Bearing in mind that the water table is much
lower that that, I think I can safely say that this is not right!

We dug up a portion of the garage floor (5 inches of concrete with 1/4 inch
steel reinforcing mesh!) and have now found that the water pipe splits just
past the edge of the inspection chanber. It travels north (just pretend
bearings so you get the picture - not even I am sad enough to measure
that!!) and then veers off north west away from the house. The other one
goes east adn enters the house. This will be my rising main.

My sort of question is that why on earth would I have a split like this? I
can only assume that the house may have had an outside toilet at some time,
but would it get fed like this?
I'm also guessing that the leak is most likely at the end of the north west
branch whjere they have capped it off badly.

Does it sound like I am on the right track?

Cheers
Mike

"Mike Hibbert" wrote in message
...
We dug up a portion of the garage floor (5 inches of concrete with
1/4 inch
steel reinforcing mesh!) and have now found that the water pipe
splits just
past the edge of the inspection chanber. It travels north (just
pretend
bearings so you get the picture - not even I am sad enough to
measure
that!!) and then veers off north west away from the house. The other
one
goes east adn enters the house. This will be my rising main.

My sort of question is that why on earth would I have a split like
this? I
can only assume that the house may have had an outside toilet at
some time,
but would it get fed like this?
I'm also guessing that the leak is most likely at the end of the
north west
branch whjere they have capped it off badly.

Does it sound like I am on the right track?


If it was me, (and I was sure the 'branch' was not feeding anywhere
else), I would cut out the garage stop cock and branch section, and
replace with a straight pipe, joining the incoming and house feed.
Leave the existing cut out section in place though, just in case, so
it would be possible to replace it if necessary.
--
Gavin Gillespie
Giltbrook
Nottingham UK

"Gavin Gillespie" wrote in message
...

"Mike Hibbert" wrote in message
...
We dug up a portion of the garage floor (5 inches of concrete with
1/4 inch
steel reinforcing mesh!) and have now found that the water pipe
splits just
past the edge of the inspection chanber. It travels north (just
pretend
bearings so you get the picture - not even I am sad enough to
measure
that!!) and then veers off north west away from the house. The other
one
goes east adn enters the house. This will be my rising main.

My sort of question is that why on earth would I have a split like
this? I
can only assume that the house may have had an outside toilet at
some time,
but would it get fed like this?
I'm also guessing that the leak is most likely at the end of the
north west
branch whjere they have capped it off badly.

Does it sound like I am on the right track?


If it was me, (and I was sure the 'branch' was not feeding anywhere
else), I would cut out the garage stop cock and branch section, and
replace with a straight pipe, joining the incoming and house feed.
Leave the existing cut out section in place though, just in case, so
it would be possible to replace it if necessary.
--
Gavin Gillespie
Giltbrook
Nottingham UK


I was hoping someone else would say that, because I was thinking that
myself. What is the point of having 3 stopcocks?

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 09:17:28 GMT, "Mike Hibbert"
wrote:

Hello all,

Some of you will remember that I have a strange gushing water sound coming
from the pipes in the garage. They resonate upstairs too. Well, after
turning off the tap in the road the noise stopped. This meant that there was
a problem between the service pipe and the stopcock. I found an inspection
chanber in the garage and lifted that, it contained another stopcock
(presumable the old one for the house before the renovations). this was 18
inches deep in standing water! Bearing in mind that the water table is much
lower that that, I think I can safely say that this is not right!

We dug up a portion of the garage floor (5 inches of concrete with 1/4 inch
steel reinforcing mesh!) and have now found that the water pipe splits just
past the edge of the inspection chanber. It travels north (just pretend
bearings so you get the picture - not even I am sad enough to measure
that!!) and then veers off north west away from the house. The other one
goes east adn enters the house. This will be my rising main.

My sort of question is that why on earth would I have a split like this? I
can only assume that the house may have had an outside toilet at some time,
but would it get fed like this?
I'm also guessing that the leak is most likely at the end of the north west
branch whjere they have capped it off badly.

Does it sound like I am on the right track?

Cheers
Mike


Is the house of an age where the pipe is lead, or steel or ???

Could there have been another property or possibly a business of some
sort at some time? For example, many years ago my parents lived in
an Edwardian house with a similar house next door. However, at some
time in the past, the space behind the house had been a dairy and
although most of the buildings to do with it and long since gone there
was a remaining one which had probably been the stable. This had
services such as a separate water and electricity supply.

Alternatively, is it possible that the pipe you mention feeds another
property? One clue might be if surrounding properties are of a
different age.....

Certainly if the house had an outside toilet at some time, it's quite
possible that it would have been fed separately. When you are
digging, look out for old salt glazed drain pipes which may not be too
far away from the water services.......




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 09:42:06 -0000, Gavin Gillespie wrote:

If it was me, (and I was sure the 'branch' was not feeding anywhere
else), I would cut out the garage stop cock and branch section, and
replace with a straight pipe, joining the incoming and house feed.
Leave the existing cut out section in place though, just in case, so
it would be possible to replace it if necessary.

Erm the T and branch are under the floor not in the chamber. The OP
doesn't say that the noise stops if the garage stopcock is closed,
though I guess this would this have been the reason for starting to
dig up the floor heading in the direction of the house...

Certainly cutting the branch and capping the stub is a first step then
making sure the noise has stopped, at this stage the leak could be in
either length. If not already done it's proably worth checking that
the street and garage stopcocks don't shut of your neighbours water as
well before finally disconnecting the branch...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
. 1...
On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 09:42:06 -0000, Gavin Gillespie wrote:

If it was me, (and I was sure the 'branch' was not feeding anywhere
else), I would cut out the garage stop cock and branch section, and
replace with a straight pipe, joining the incoming and house feed.
Leave the existing cut out section in place though, just in case, so
it would be possible to replace it if necessary.

Erm the T and branch are under the floor not in the chamber. The OP
doesn't say that the noise stops if the garage stopcock is closed,
though I guess this would this have been the reason for starting to
dig up the floor heading in the direction of the house...

Yes, when I turn off the garage stopcock the noise stops.


Certainly cutting the branch and capping the stub is a first step then
making sure the noise has stopped, at this stage the leak could be in
either length.

We have capped off the stub pipe and unfortunately the noise still goes on!
Bugger! The next plan is to dig back to the inspection chamber and to
replace the whole tapand then route this as a new feed into the house. We
can then join replace the join onto the rising main with a new one that we
know doesn't leak. If it still leaks and the noise is still there, then we
may have to go back to the street ( !!

If not already done it's proably worth checking that
the street and garage stopcocks don't shut of your neighbours water as
well before finally disconnecting the branch...


Ooops! Yep, would have been a good idea, but we have had the water off for
36 hours no and no sign of a complaint! The houses are a fair distance from
me and all appear to have a street service pipe stopcock, so I am fairly
sure this is just a remnant from before.

Is the house of an age where the pipe is lead, or steel or ???

the external pipe is lead, but it join inside the house somewhere to copper,
I will probably go from the garage stopcock into the copper now and bypass
the lead. Would plastic be OK for this?

Could there have been another property or possibly a business of some
sort at some time? For example, many years ago my parents lived in
an Edwardian house with a similar house next door. However, at some
time in the past, the space behind the house had been a dairy and
although most of the buildings to do with it and long since gone there
was a remaining one which had probably been the stable. This had
services such as a separate water and electricity supply.

there was not much around the house before, I can only assume (hope!) that
it was an outside loo.


Alternatively, is it possible that the pipe you mention feeds another
property? One clue might be if surrounding properties are of a
different age.....

Certainly if the house had an outside toilet at some time, it's quite
possible that it would have been fed separately. When you are
digging, look out for old salt glazed drain pipes which may not be too
far away from the water services.......

Ahh, we did find an old 4" clay pipe down there aswell! could this be it?

"Mike Hibbert" wrote in message
...
Hello all,

Some of you will remember that I have a strange gushing water sound coming
from the pipes in the garage. They resonate upstairs too. Well, after
turning off the tap in the road the noise stopped. This meant that there
was
a problem between the service pipe and the stopcock. I found an inspection
chanber in the garage and lifted that, it contained another stopcock
(presumable the old one for the house before the renovations). this was 18
inches deep in standing water! Bearing in mind that the water table is
much
lower that that, I think I can safely say that this is not right!

We dug up a portion of the garage floor (5 inches of concrete with 1/4
inch
steel reinforcing mesh!) and have now found that the water pipe splits
just
past the edge of the inspection chanber. It travels north (just pretend
bearings so you get the picture - not even I am sad enough to measure
that!!) and then veers off north west away from the house. The other one
goes east adn enters the house. This will be my rising main.

My sort of question is that why on earth would I have a split like this? I
can only assume that the house may have had an outside toilet at some
time,
but would it get fed like this?
I'm also guessing that the leak is most likely at the end of the north
west
branch whjere they have capped it off badly.

Does it sound like I am on the right track?

Cheers
Mike



Hi Mike,

have you turned on the stopcock back on up at the road and then turned the
stopcock in the garage on and off to see if the gushing sound repeats?, me I
would leave the stopcock in place and just cap off the split end you don't
require. How long was it turned off for, did any neighbours complain later
about intermittent water?

I just completed a repair job for some clients, they had gallons of water
leaking under their extension, it took five years for them to notice that
there was a problem. I added stopcocks to all the houses that were affected,
so they could all isolate their properties as the water main was a shared
water main that ran accross all the properties.

HTH

Glenn

"Mike Hibbert" wrote in message
...

We have capped off the stub pipe and unfortunately the noise still
goes on!
Bugger! The next plan is to dig back to the inspection chamber and
to
replace the whole tapand then route this as a new feed into the
house. We
can then join replace the join onto the rising main with a new one
that we
know doesn't leak. If it still leaks and the noise is still there,
then we
may have to go back to the street ( !!


There should be no need to go back to the street, as the noise should
be further down the line than the last stop cock isolated, i.e. the
garage stop cock. Would it be possible to put a temporary length of
strong hosepipe, from the garage stop cock to the house stop cock,
this would prove that the leak is in that section, (which it seems
that it must be), and it would also give you a temporary water supply
whilst the excavation work is carried out.
--
Gavin Gillespie
Giltbrook
Nottingham UK

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 12:21:38 GMT, Mike Hibbert wrote:

Yes, when I turn off the garage stopcock the noise stops.

We have capped off the stub pipe and unfortunately the noise still
goes on! Bugger!

Indeed.

The next plan is to dig back to the inspection chamber and to
replace the whole tapand then route this as a new feed into the
house.
snip
If it still leaks and the noise is still there, then we may have to
go back to the street ( !!

If you replace the length from the house interior to to garage
stopcock and the garage stop still controls the noise then something
weird is going on. Assuming no demand for water in the house. You did
test the garage to house length with the house cock off?

You mentioned elsewhere a change from lead to copper at an unknown
location, my bet would be that joint.

And plastic yes, the blue stuff I'd use 28mm. As you have a lead
service pipe it might be worth getting touch with the local water
board. Some have/had schemes where they would replace lead service
pipes for free if there was no lead in the property anymore...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"RatBox" wrote in message
...

"Mike Hibbert" wrote in message
...
Hello all,

Some of you will remember that I have a strange gushing water sound
coming
from the pipes in the garage. They resonate upstairs too. Well, after
turning off the tap in the road the noise stopped. This meant that there
was
a problem between the service pipe and the stopcock. I found an
inspection
chanber in the garage and lifted that, it contained another stopcock
(presumable the old one for the house before the renovations). this was
18
inches deep in standing water! Bearing in mind that the water table is
much
lower that that, I think I can safely say that this is not right!

We dug up a portion of the garage floor (5 inches of concrete with 1/4
inch
steel reinforcing mesh!) and have now found that the water pipe splits
just
past the edge of the inspection chanber. It travels north (just pretend
bearings so you get the picture - not even I am sad enough to measure
that!!) and then veers off north west away from the house. The other one
goes east adn enters the house. This will be my rising main.

My sort of question is that why on earth would I have a split like this?
I
can only assume that the house may have had an outside toilet at some
time,
but would it get fed like this?
I'm also guessing that the leak is most likely at the end of the north
west
branch whjere they have capped it off badly.

Does it sound like I am on the right track?

Cheers
Mike



Hi Mike,

have you turned on the stopcock back on up at the road and then turned the
stopcock in the garage on and off to see if the gushing sound repeats?, me
I
would leave the stopcock in place and just cap off the split end you don't
require. How long was it turned off for, did any neighbours complain later
about intermittent water?

I just completed a repair job for some clients, they had gallons of water
leaking under their extension, it took five years for them to notice that
there was a problem. I added stopcocks to all the houses that were
affected,
so they could all isolate their properties as the water main was a shared
water main that ran accross all the properties.


Was there any damage to foundations with the water being under the house for
so long?

"Gavin Gillespie" wrote in message
...

"Mike Hibbert" wrote in message
...

We have capped off the stub pipe and unfortunately the noise still
goes on!
Bugger! The next plan is to dig back to the inspection chamber and
to
replace the whole tapand then route this as a new feed into the
house. We
can then join replace the join onto the rising main with a new one
that we
know doesn't leak. If it still leaks and the noise is still there,
then we
may have to go back to the street ( !!


There should be no need to go back to the street, as the noise should
be further down the line than the last stop cock isolated, i.e. the
garage stop cock. Would it be possible to put a temporary length of
strong hosepipe, from the garage stop cock to the house stop cock,
this would prove that the leak is in that section, (which it seems
that it must be), and it would also give you a temporary water supply
whilst the excavation work is carried out.


Thanks Gavin,

This is a good idea, I will try this before I replace the pipe.

Three stopcocks are good, it helps you locate leaks so you don't have to did up the whole pipe .........

Rick

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 10:12:05 GMT, "Mike Hibbert" wrote:
"Gavin Gillespie" wrote in message
...

"Mike Hibbert" wrote in message
...
We dug up a portion of the garage floor (5 inches of concrete with
1/4 inch
steel reinforcing mesh!) and have now found that the water pipe
splits just
past the edge of the inspection chanber. It travels north (just
pretend
bearings so you get the picture - not even I am sad enough to
measure
that!!) and then veers off north west away from the house. The other
one
goes east adn enters the house. This will be my rising main.

My sort of question is that why on earth would I have a split like
this? I
can only assume that the house may have had an outside toilet at
some time,
but would it get fed like this?
I'm also guessing that the leak is most likely at the end of the
north west
branch whjere they have capped it off badly.

Does it sound like I am on the right track?


If it was me, (and I was sure the 'branch' was not feeding anywhere
else), I would cut out the garage stop cock and branch section, and
replace with a straight pipe, joining the incoming and house feed.
Leave the existing cut out section in place though, just in case, so
it would be possible to replace it if necessary.
--
Gavin Gillespie
Giltbrook
Nottingham UK


I was hoping someone else would say that, because I was thinking that
myself. What is the point of having 3 stopcocks?