Hi,

I went to Wickes to buy some cheap emulsion to dilute 50:50 to make a
mist coat to seal some plaster. I was bewildered by the number of
different types of emulsion they had.

There was trade emulsion and trade vinyl emulsion. Is the difference
between these two that the vinyl version is wipeable but the non-vinyl
is not? Or isn't it as simple as that?

There was also an "emulsion for plaster". I don't remember what the
tin said now but I imagine you can paint direct onto plaster without
priming it first? I wonder if you need more than one coat? I wasn't
really looking to paint the wall white; I would have been happy with a
wishy washy finish just to stop the dust brushing off but it could
have been useful, I suppose.

What would you have bought?

I notice they said to dilute with 10% water,. I suppose that helps if
you are a tradesman that you could get 11 tins out of 10 but I would
be nervous about diluting one batch more than another and getting an
inconsistent finish!

On a totally different point, may I ask what eggshell is? I assumed it
was just a finish halfway between matt and satin but a recent post
here suggested it was best for bathrooms and kitchens, so is it for
some reason a more durable finish?

Where do bathroom and kitchen paints fit into the equation? Are they
just vinyl emulsions?

TIA

On 26/04/2012 15:37, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I went to Wickes to buy some cheap emulsion to dilute 50:50 to make a
mist coat to seal some plaster. I was bewildered by the number of
different types of emulsion they had.

There was trade emulsion and trade vinyl emulsion. Is the difference
between these two that the vinyl version is wipeable but the non-vinyl
is not? Or isn't it as simple as that?

There was also an "emulsion for plaster". I don't remember what the
tin said now but I imagine you can paint direct onto plaster without
priming it first? I wonder if you need more than one coat? I wasn't
really looking to paint the wall white; I would have been happy with a
wishy washy finish just to stop the dust brushing off but it could
have been useful, I suppose.

What would you have bought?

I notice they said to dilute with 10% water,. I suppose that helps if
you are a tradesman that you could get 11 tins out of 10 but I would
be nervous about diluting one batch more than another and getting an
inconsistent finish!

On a totally different point, may I ask what eggshell is? I assumed it
was just a finish halfway between matt and satin but a recent post
here suggested it was best for bathrooms and kitchens, so is it for
some reason a more durable finish?

Where do bathroom and kitchen paints fit into the equation? Are they
just vinyl emulsions?

TIA

IMO thinning water based paint is never a good idea. It "breaks" the
emulsion so that some of the paint's properties are lost. Best to just
buy a paint that isn't as thick as custard to start with, which is often
the own label stuff in a tub.

IMO thinning water based paint is never a good idea. It "breaks" the
emulsion so that some of the paint's properties are lost. Best to just
buy a paint that isn't as thick as custard to start with, which is often
the own label stuff in a tub.

Unless it is new plaster.

On 26/04/2012 16:32, Rednadnerb wrote:

IMO thinning water based paint is never a good idea. It "breaks" the
emulsion so that some of the paint's properties are lost. Best to just
buy a paint that isn't as thick as custard to start with, which is often
the own label stuff in a tub.

Unless it is new plaster.

You need to consider what happens when you add water to paint. It
doesn't dilute the paint and the water tends to do its own thing once
it's on the wall. I know it's common practice but some very basic tests
would show that it isn't sound practice

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 16:28:53 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:

IMO thinning water based paint is never a good idea. It "breaks" the
emulsion so that some of the paint's properties are lost. Best to just
buy a paint that isn't as thick as custard to start with, which is often
the own label stuff in a tub.

The more I think about this, the more I wonder why do they recommend
you dilute it with 10% water?

I can see the advantage for the merchant if you had to dilute it say
50:50: the tins would be smaller and lighter, which means they could
fit twice as many on a lorry and halve their transport costs. But is
it really worth it for 10%?

Wouldn't it also be less hassle for a tradesman to open a tin and
start painting rather than have to walk across the house to get some
water and spend time mixing the paint first?

I was in Wickes last night and saw exactly the same thing. I think the
marketing department are having a laugh. Trade emulsion is what you
would use for new plaster, you just add some water to it. To sell a
paint specifically for new plaster is taking the ****.
Vinyl emulsion is more expensive and wipeable unlike normal emulsion
which would come off on a damp cloth.
Bathrooms and kitchens used to be done in Vinyl satin emulsion which
offer some resistance to moisture or oil based eggshell which was
scrubbable but they now have improved acrylic paints which they market
as for the kitchen or bathroom. As far as I can tell, these bathroom
kitchen paints are exactly the same as the water based acrylic
eggshell that you would use on your woodwork.

New plaster emulsion is not taking the ****. Normally you have to wait 4 to 6 weeks after plastering before you paint it so that it's totally dry. If you don't, you trap the moisture in the plaster and get efflorescence or mould.

New plaster emulsion is special (microporous, I believe) and allows moisture to evaporate from the plaster through the paint. So you don't have to wait the 4 to 6 weeks. Nice.

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 08:30:59 -0700 (PDT), Rednadnerb
wrote:

As far as I can tell, these bathroom
kitchen paints are exactly the same as the water based acrylic
eggshell that you would use on your woodwork.

I haven't used that (eggshell for wood) before. What is it like?

SWMBO wants the woodwork white. Oil-based gloss gives a lovely smooth
finish but it yellows. I tried the water based gloss by Dulux and
although it does not yellow, I didn't like the finish, which shows
brush marks and is not as smooth as oil-based gloss. There seems to be
a shift towards thee water-based paints and it worries me they are not
good enough yet.

On Apr 30, 9:32*am, Fred wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 08:30:59 -0700 (PDT), Rednadnerb

wrote:
As far as I can tell, these bathroom
kitchen paints are exactly the same as the water based acrylic
eggshell that you would use on your woodwork.

I haven't used that (eggshell for wood) before. What is it like?

SWMBO wants the woodwork white. Oil-based gloss gives a lovely smooth
finish but it yellows. I tried the water based gloss by Dulux and
although it does not yellow, I didn't like the finish, which shows
brush marks and is not as smooth as oil-based gloss. There seems to be
a shift towards thee water-based paints and it worries me they are not
good enough yet.

A good cleanup of old gloss paint gets rid of most of the yellowing.
You could add one drop of blue if you really don't like it mellowing.

I only used water based gloss once, nowhere near as robust.


NT

The water based eggshell is similar to the water based gloss, easy to
apply but not as smooth and doesn't cover as well as the oil based
product although I am told that it doesn't yellow, I still prefer the
oil based product.

Fred wrote:
Hi,

I went to Wickes to buy some cheap emulsion to dilute 50:50 to make a
mist coat to seal some plaster. I was bewildered by the number of
different types of emulsion they had.

Mostly ****e to obfusicate the buyer...


There was trade emulsion and trade vinyl emulsion. Is the difference
between these two that the vinyl version is wipeable but the non-vinyl
is not? Or isn't it as simple as that?

it's that simple.

There was also an "emulsion for plaster". I don't remember what the
tin said now but I imagine you can paint direct onto plaster without
priming it first? I wonder if you need more than one coat? I wasn't
really looking to paint the wall white; I would have been happy with a
wishy washy finish just to stop the dust brushing off but it could
have been useful, I suppose.

What would you have bought?

Trade emulsion, mixed half of it with 25% water (3:1 paint) and give the
wall a coat of that, saving the other half to do it again, this time with
only a drop of water to give it a bit of slide


I notice they said to dilute with 10% water,. I suppose that helps if
you are a tradesman that you could get 11 tins out of 10 but I would
be nervous about diluting one batch more than another and getting an
inconsistent finish!


what difference does it make on new plaster?

On a totally different point, may I ask what eggshell is? I assumed it
was just a finish halfway between matt and satin but a recent post
here suggested it was best for bathrooms and kitchens, so is it for
some reason a more durable finish?

Eggshell is oil based, like undercoat and gloss - you can get water based
ones that have a similar finish.
The finish on these paints is moisture resistant, so usefull in steamy
environments like shower rooms etc, although saying that, my bathroom
ceiling is painted with normal trade white emulsion and the walls in eggy -
there's no difference and neither paper has peeled off anywhere (blown vinyl
ceiling and lining paper on walls)

Where do bathroom and kitchen paints fit into the equation? Are they
just vinyl emulsions?


See above

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:16:50 +0100, "Phil L"
wrote:

what difference does it make on new plaster?

Sorry, that was my fault for talking about two uses in one post. I was
going to make a mist coat as a 50:50 mix, but I see you recommend even
weaker at 25:75.

I'm not going to use the whole tin priming the walls, so I'll have
some left over for other jobs. I was commenting that if using it as a
top coat, I would be worried about inconsistency between batches if I
had to dilute it myself each time.

On Apr 26, 3:37*pm, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I went to Wickes to buy some cheap emulsion to dilute 50:50 to make a
mist coat to seal some plaster. I was bewildered by the number of
different types of emulsion they had.

There was trade emulsion and trade vinyl emulsion. Is the difference
between these two that the vinyl version is wipeable but the non-vinyl
is not? Or isn't it as simple as that?

All emulsions survive wipe cleaning, vinyl ones have a smoother
surface than cheapo chalkier finish ones, so are a good bit easier to
clean, thus more durable if cleaned. Cheapie ultramatt ones also get
dirtier quicker.


There was also an "emulsion for plaster". I don't remember what the
tin said now but I imagine you can paint direct onto plaster without
priming it first? I wonder if you need more than one coat? I wasn't
really looking to paint the wall white; I would have been happy with a
wishy washy finish just to stop the dust brushing off but it could
have been useful, I suppose.

All emulsion is good for plaster. When painting new plaster you can
dilute the paint, but as someone mentioned the rsult is some of the
glue going into the plaster, leaving the paint weakened. Or you can
dampen the plaster and paint emulsion on undiluted.


What would you have bought?

A brand I've had decent results with. Dulux or Leyland mainly, a lot
of people also like Crown. Cheapo stuff is a false economy, after a
year it looks bad and needs redoing.


I notice they said to dilute with 10% water,. I suppose that helps if
you are a tradesman that you could get 11 tins out of 10 but I would
be nervous about diluting one batch more than another and getting an
inconsistent finish!

Dilution makes no difference to finish. Its to help it bond to dry
plaster.

On a totally different point, may I ask what eggshell is? I assumed it
was just a finish halfway between matt and satin but a recent post

yes

here suggested it was best for bathrooms and kitchens, so is it for
some reason a more durable finish?

Its a compromise between the good looks of matt and the easy
cleanability of gloss, hence its use in bathrooms etc.

Where do bathroom and kitchen paints fit into the equation? Are they
just vinyl emulsions?

added mould inhibitors.

TIA

PS all emulsions let water vapour through, and can be put on before a
new wall is fully dry. But the surface needs to be able to dry, as
emulsions only set by drying, and paint staying wet is not good.


NT

On Friday, April 27, 2012 1:08:21 PM UTC+1, NT wrote:

PS all emulsions let water vapour through, and can be put on before a
new wall is fully dry.

Are you sure about this? All books I've read on the topic as well as some online sources (say, http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects...newplaster.htm, for example) say only to do this with special paint such as Wickes New Plaster Emulsion or Dulux Supermatt.

On Apr 27, 5:25*pm, alamaison wrote:
On Friday, April 27, 2012 1:08:21 PM UTC+1, NT wrote:

PS all emulsions let water vapour through, and can be put on before a
new wall is fully dry.

Are you sure about this? *All books I've read on the topic as well as some online sources (say,http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects...newplaster.htm, for example) say only to do this with special paint such as Wickes New Plaster Emulsion or Dulux Supermatt.

Well, my standard method of painting bare surfaces is to wet it, give
it 5 mins to soak in, then paint without diluting. Its always worked
fine, long as well as short term.


NT

On Friday, April 27, 2012 6:42:43 PM UTC+1, NT wrote:
On Apr 27, 5:25*pm, alamaison wrote:
On Friday, April 27, 2012 1:08:21 PM UTC+1, NT wrote:

PS all emulsions let water vapour through, and can be put on before a
new wall is fully dry.

Are you sure about this? *All books I've read on the topic as well as some online sources (say,http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects...newplaster.htm, for example) say only to do this with special paint such as Wickes New Plaster Emulsion or Dulux Supermatt.

Well, my standard method of painting bare surfaces is to wet it, give
it 5 mins to soak in, then paint without diluting. Its always worked
fine, long as well as short term.

Yes, that's a good way to prime bare plaster. But this plaster has to have sat around for 4 to 6 weeks to be dry first. The special new plaster emulsions aren't for that situation; they are for if you are pushed for time and have to paint the plaster straight away.

On Apr 27, 7:41*pm, alamaison wrote:
On Friday, April 27, 2012 6:42:43 PM UTC+1, NT wrote:
On Apr 27, 5:25*pm, alamaison wrote:
On Friday, April 27, 2012 1:08:21 PM UTC+1, NT wrote:

PS all emulsions let water vapour through, and can be put on before a
new wall is fully dry.

Are you sure about this? *All books I've read on the topic as well as some online sources (say,http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects...newplaster.htm, for example) say only to do this with special paint such as Wickes New Plaster Emulsion or Dulux Supermatt.

Well, my standard method of painting bare surfaces is to wet it, give
it 5 mins to soak in, then paint without diluting. Its always worked
fine, long as well as short term.

Yes, that's a good way to prime bare plaster. *But this plaster has to
have sat around for 4 to 6 weeks to be dry first. *The special new

Not IME. Why do you think thats the case? I dont do much painting of
new plaster, but what I have has gone fine. I've just waited till the
surface is no more than damp, so the emulsion can dry.

plaster emulsions aren't for that situation; they are for if you are
pushed for time and have to paint the plaster straight away.


NT

On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 05:08:21 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

All emulsions survive wipe cleaning, vinyl ones have a smoother
surface than cheapo chalkier finish ones, so are a good bit easier to
clean, thus more durable if cleaned. Cheapie ultramatt ones also get
dirtier quicker.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I did once have some matt paint that
got scuffed and when I tried to wipe it clean, the paint came off with
the dirt on the cloth! I don't know what make that was; it was on the
walls when I moved into the house. After that I always bought tins
that said "wipeable".

A brand I've had decent results with. Dulux or Leyland mainly, a lot
of people also like Crown. Cheapo stuff is a false economy, after a
year it looks bad and needs redoing.

I used to use Crown but I had problems with their emulsions peeling.
Perhaps that wasn't the fault of the paint but a flaw in the
preparation? I've used Dulux since then, which I think is generally
recommended by this group, and (with the exception of their water
based gloss) have not had any problems.

On Thursday, April 26, 2012 at 3:37:05 PM UTC+1, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I went to Wickes to buy some cheap emulsion to dilute 50:50 to make a
mist coat to seal some plaster. I was bewildered by the number of
different types of emulsion they had.

There was trade emulsion and trade vinyl emulsion. Is the difference
between these two that the vinyl version is wipeable but the non-vinyl
is not? Or isn't it as simple as that?

There was also an "emulsion for plaster". I don't remember what the
tin said now but I imagine you can paint direct onto plaster without
priming it first? I wonder if you need more than one coat? I wasn't
really looking to paint the wall white; I would have been happy with a
wishy washy finish just to stop the dust brushing off but it could
have been useful, I suppose.

What would you have bought?

I notice they said to dilute with 10% water,. I suppose that helps if
you are a tradesman that you could get 11 tins out of 10 but I would
be nervous about diluting one batch more than another and getting an
inconsistent finish!

On a totally different point, may I ask what eggshell is? I assumed it
was just a finish halfway between matt and satin but a recent post
here suggested it was best for bathrooms and kitchens, so is it for
some reason a more durable finish?

Where do bathroom and kitchen paints fit into the equation? Are they
just vinyl emulsions?

TIA

Found these.

1. GLOSS PAINTS (OIL-BASED PAINTS)

2. EMULSION PAINTS (WATER- BASED PAINTS)

read more at: https://www.freeprojecttopics.com/us...ion-paint.html

Eggshell is not any kind of durability scale, its merely the dullness of the
finish, ie it looks like an eggshell.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, April 26, 2012 at 3:37:05 PM UTC+1, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I went to Wickes to buy some cheap emulsion to dilute 50:50 to make a
mist coat to seal some plaster. I was bewildered by the number of
different types of emulsion they had.

There was trade emulsion and trade vinyl emulsion. Is the difference
between these two that the vinyl version is wipeable but the non-vinyl
is not? Or isn't it as simple as that?

There was also an "emulsion for plaster". I don't remember what the
tin said now but I imagine you can paint direct onto plaster without
priming it first? I wonder if you need more than one coat? I wasn't
really looking to paint the wall white; I would have been happy with a
wishy washy finish just to stop the dust brushing off but it could
have been useful, I suppose.

What would you have bought?

I notice they said to dilute with 10% water,. I suppose that helps if
you are a tradesman that you could get 11 tins out of 10 but I would
be nervous about diluting one batch more than another and getting an
inconsistent finish!

On a totally different point, may I ask what eggshell is? I assumed it
was just a finish halfway between matt and satin but a recent post
here suggested it was best for bathrooms and kitchens, so is it for
some reason a more durable finish?

Where do bathroom and kitchen paints fit into the equation? Are they
just vinyl emulsions?

TIA

Found these.

1. GLOSS PAINTS (OIL-BASED PAINTS)

2. EMULSION PAINTS (WATER- BASED PAINTS)

read more at:
https://www.freeprojecttopics.com/us...ion-paint.html

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:51:43 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Eggshell is not any kind of durability scale, its merely the dullness of the
finish, ie it looks like an eggshell.
Brian

But does the term not denote oil based paint?

On 01/08/18 13:54, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:51:43 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Eggshell is not any kind of durability scale, its merely the dullness of the
finish, ie it looks like an eggshell.
Brian

But does the term not denote oil based paint?

It usually does, as 'satin' is more used for emulsion, but I am not sure
that is in fact universally the case.

e.g.
https://www.diy.com/departments/leyl.../330482_BQ.prd


--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On 31/07/2018 15:32, wrote:
On Thursday, April 26, 2012 at 3:37:05 PM UTC+1, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I went to Wickes to buy some cheap emulsion to dilute 50:50 to make a
mist coat to seal some plaster. I was bewildered by the number of
different types of emulsion they had.

There was trade emulsion and trade vinyl emulsion. Is the difference
between these two that the vinyl version is wipeable but the non-vinyl
is not? Or isn't it as simple as that?

There was also an "emulsion for plaster". I don't remember what the
tin said now but I imagine you can paint direct onto plaster without
priming it first? I wonder if you need more than one coat? I wasn't
really looking to paint the wall white; I would have been happy with a
wishy washy finish just to stop the dust brushing off but it could
have been useful, I suppose.

What would you have bought?

I notice they said to dilute with 10% water,. I suppose that helps if
you are a tradesman that you could get 11 tins out of 10 but I would
be nervous about diluting one batch more than another and getting an
inconsistent finish!

On a totally different point, may I ask what eggshell is? I assumed it
was just a finish halfway between matt and satin but a recent post
here suggested it was best for bathrooms and kitchens, so is it for
some reason a more durable finish?

Where do bathroom and kitchen paints fit into the equation? Are they
just vinyl emulsions?

TIA

Found these.

1. GLOSS PAINTS (OIL-BASED PAINTS)

2. EMULSION PAINTS (WATER- BASED PAINTS)

read more at: https://www.freeprojecttopics.com/us...ion-paint.html


Well, even with less than perfect eye-sight I found this :-

"Thursday, April 26, 2012 at 3:37:05 PM UTC+1, Fred wrote" .....

FFS, where are numptys getting these old post from ?.

And unless you know the difference between Oil-based gloss and
water-based emulsion, I suggest you 'get a man in'.

On 2018-07-31 15:32, wrote:

Found these.

1. GLOSS PAINTS (OIL-BASED PAINTS)

2. EMULSION PAINTS (WATER- BASED PAINTS)

We did try some water-based paint that claimed to give a gloss finish.

Save your time and money; it was rubbish. It retained brush marks and
wasn't particularly glossy.



--
Graham Nye
news(a)thenyes.org.uk