We've got dry rot under our stairs.

A company has been round and told us that all the floorboards in hall
will need replacing with treated floorboards. Plaster will need
replacing to height of 1 metre (up to Dado rail) by 3 metres wide. Two
air bricks will need installing.

The quote has come in at £3000 for a weeks work.

This seems fairly expensive considering the quote effectively covers

1) what the cost of floorboards are (hallway measures 2 metres by 6)
2) 2 people for 2 days to lay floorboards
3) install 2 airbricks (cover one exisitng air brick which is level
with pavement outside (this is where water has been coming into the
house)
4) the cost of a plasterer for a day and his material.
5) treating all new wood with dry rot prevention chemicals
6) finsihing work

Can anyone recommend any companies in North Manchester/Bury area which
deal in this type of work?

Regards

On 14 Jul 2003 12:30:24 -0700, (Steve Fisher)
wrote:

We've got dry rot under our stairs.

A company has been round and told us that all the floorboards in hall
will need replacing with treated floorboards. Plaster will need
replacing to height of 1 metre (up to Dado rail) by 3 metres wide. Two
air bricks will need installing.

The quote has come in at £3000 for a weeks work.

This seems fairly expensive considering the quote effectively covers

1) what the cost of floorboards are (hallway measures 2 metres by 6)
2) 2 people for 2 days to lay floorboards
3) install 2 airbricks (cover one exisitng air brick which is level
with pavement outside (this is where water has been coming into the
house)
4) the cost of a plasterer for a day and his material.
5) treating all new wood with dry rot prevention chemicals
6) finsihing work

Can anyone recommend any companies in North Manchester/Bury area which
deal in this type of work?

Regards

I'm no expert or even sure of this but if they are replacing the
woodwork that has rotted and fixing the problem causing it why treat
the new wood ? Or will any remaing traces of rot spread to the new
wood.

I'll do it all baring the plastering for a fiver. ;-)

Mark S.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:29:55 +0100, Mark
wrote:


I'm no expert or even sure of this but if they are replacing the
woodwork that has rotted and fixing the problem causing it why treat
the new wood ? Or will any remaing traces of rot spread to the new
wood.

I'll do it all baring the plastering for a fiver. ;-)

Mark S.


Strictly speaking it shouldn't be necessary because the conditions for
dry rot to establish and grow will have been removed - i.e. a moisture
source of the correct amount of moisture and lack of ventilation.

However, the common practice is to sterilise all surfaces and
materials with a suitable solution.

A litre of Cuprinol Dry Rot Killer is about £7, so in the context of
the cost of the job and what an outbreak can cost, it's pretty much a
no-brainer to use it on the new wood.

BTW. You're selling yourself too cheaply.... :-)




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Subject: Help needed redry rot.
From: (Steve Fisher)
Date: 14/07/03 20:30 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

We've got dry rot under our stairs.

A company has been round and told us that all the floorboards in hall
will need replacing with treated floorboards. Plaster will need
replacing to height of 1 metre (up to Dado rail) by 3 metres wide. Two
air bricks will need installing.

The quote has come in at £3000 for a weeks work.

This seems fairly expensive considering the quote effectively covers

1) what the cost of floorboards are (hallway measures 2 metres by 6)
2) 2 people for 2 days to lay floorboards
3) install 2 airbricks (cover one exisitng air brick which is level
with pavement outside (this is where water has been coming into the
house)
4) the cost of a plasterer for a day and his material.
5) treating all new wood with dry rot prevention chemicals
6) finsihing work

Chances are all you really need to do is find the source of the moisture that
causes the dry rot (a badly named thing if ever there was one), add some
ventilation, slap some dry rot killer around and let it all dry out. There may
be a leak from cracked render or a gutter or damp proof course letting moisture
in. If you have a washing machine under there that can cause all sorts of damp
and condensation problems. I have the same under my stairs from the washing
machine and its drain outlet. Replacing floorboards many metres away seems
total overkill IMO but then I haven't seen your house.

Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)
You find somebody to love in this world you'd better hang on tooth and nail -
the wolf is always at the door. (Don Henley - In A New York Minute)

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jul 2003 12:30:24 -0700, (Steve Fisher)
wrote:

We've got dry rot under our stairs.

A company has been round and told us that all the floorboards in hall
will need replacing with treated floorboards. Plaster will need
replacing to height of 1 metre (up to Dado rail) by 3 metres wide. Two
air bricks will need installing.

The quote has come in at £3000 for a weeks work.

This seems fairly expensive considering the quote effectively covers

1) what the cost of floorboards are (hallway measures 2 metres by 6)
2) 2 people for 2 days to lay floorboards
3) install 2 airbricks (cover one exisitng air brick which is level
with pavement outside (this is where water has been coming into the
house)
4) the cost of a plasterer for a day and his material.
5) treating all new wood with dry rot prevention chemicals
6) finsihing work

Can anyone recommend any companies in North Manchester/Bury area which
deal in this type of work?

Regards

I'm no expert or even sure of this but if they are replacing the
woodwork that has rotted and fixing the problem causing it why treat
the new wood ? Or will any remaing traces of rot spread to the new
wood.

I'll do it all baring the plastering for a fiver. ;-)

Mark S.


I had a dry rot afflicted floor replaced 30 years ago and they neither
removed the cause of the problem nor sterilised the brickwork and
surrounding timber. 10 years later it was back and I did it myself this
time, cut well back, burned and soaked the brickwork, everything according
to the text book and it's not returned.

Today I witnessed some carpenters, on bonus, replacing a nearby house floor
ruined with dry and wet rot. In their haste they removed the timber without
ceremony, treading on spores, no effort to sweep up infected debris. New
joists were rapidly installed on a 'that'll do' basis and floorboards thrown
down without any clamping up. Their attitude was that the new wood was
pressure treated and it would 'last long enough'....... . Not my idea of a
proper job, so be warned and watch the builders if you do place the
contract. IMHO it's better to go OTT when it comes to Dry Rot, rather than
regret it years later.

But £3 k does sound very expensive.............(and a fiver way too cheap).
I reckon about £1k would be fair if properly done, using round estimates for
your list of jobs and materials above.

BAH

Mark wrote in message . ..
On 14 Jul 2003 12:30:24 -0700, (Steve Fisher)
wrote:

We've got dry rot under our stairs.

A company has been round and told us that all the floorboards in hall
will need replacing with treated floorboards. Plaster will need
replacing to height of 1 metre (up to Dado rail) by 3 metres wide. Two
air bricks will need installing.

The quote has come in at £3000 for a weeks work.

This seems fairly expensive considering the quote effectively covers

1) what the cost of floorboards are (hallway measures 2 metres by 6)
2) 2 people for 2 days to lay floorboards
3) install 2 airbricks (cover one exisitng air brick which is level
with pavement outside (this is where water has been coming into the
house)
4) the cost of a plasterer for a day and his material.
5) treating all new wood with dry rot prevention chemicals
6) finsihing work

Can anyone recommend any companies in North Manchester/Bury area which
deal in this type of work?

Regards

I'm no expert or even sure of this but if they are replacing the
woodwork that has rotted and fixing the problem causing it why treat
the new wood ? Or will any remaing traces of rot spread to the new
wood.

I'll do it all baring the plastering for a fiver. ;-)

Mark S.

Does the £5 cover travelling expenses or are they additional.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Steve Fisher wrote:

I know what the cause of moisture is. Level with the rotton joist is
an airbrick. This airbrick is level with the concrete path outside the
house. I presume that when it rains heavily the rain runs along path
and in through air brick.

It also sounds like the path level outside may have been raised at some
point and is hence bridging your DPC which will not help. Any chance of
being able to lower the path if this is the case?



--
Cheers,

John.



The path outside is concrete. The dpc is higher than airbrick. Your right
in saying that when it rains heavily i believe a natural run off point will
be into airbrick.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 14/07/03

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:56:05 +0100, Mark
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:01:58 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:29:55 +0100, Mark
wrote:



I'm not familiar with dry rot (only the wet rot in my bathroom).

Is it a fungal rot caused by damp rather than the wood being rotten
through the water?

There are several forms of wet rot but I believe only one kind of dry
rot.

Wet rot happens generally when there is a high level of moisture and
there are various types, the most common being cellar fungus, which is
almost certainly what afflicted your bathroom. Basically the fungus
is limited to the wood and to wet areas at that and causes to
disintegrate along the run of the grain. Window cills and fencing
are other prime candidates. The fix is basically to remove the
source of water, to mechanically replace or repair the wood and to
treat.

There is another wet rot fungus called mine fungus which happens under
similar conditions but the wood tends to crack into cuboid shapes
across the grain. For this reason it is sometimes mistaken for dry
rot which can also leave the timber with this appearance.

Dry rot thrives in somewhat drier conditions of the wood, the key
factor normally being lack of ventilation plus a source of moisture.
The fungus has the ability to obtain water from a remote source as
well through its strands which can penetrate masonry.
There are various appearances at different stages ranging from a white
cotton-wool appearance of the mycelium (growing part) to the
purple/brown of the fruiting body. Very often, there is a
distinctive mushroomy smell which is difficult to describe, but once
you've smelt is unmistakeable.

I once saw an extensive outbreak in an old church hall. It was
really quite revolting with strands extending over an entire wall
behind some panelling.

The treatments tend to be quite draconian because of the ability of
the fungus to penetrate masonry. There is a debate as to whether
ripping off plaster and sterilising brickwork is really necessary, or
contractors trying to put more meat in the sandwich. The counter
theory runs that if the moisture supply is removed, the ventilation
fixed and the timber replaced with pressure treated, then there should
be no need to sterlise the masonry.

Rentokil's web site has some pictures of the various fungi.

http://www.fogit.co.uk/woodrot/default.php





The treatment of the wood and another poster
mentioning treatment/burning etc.

Mark S.

ps. perhaps I underestimated with the fiver in my original post having
just seen the horrors so called "builders" have done on the latest
"horrors" program on tv.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
Mark writes:

I'm not familiar with dry rot (only the wet rot in my bathroom).

Is it a fungal rot caused by damp rather than the wood being rotten
through the water? The treatment of the wood and another poster
mentioning treatment/burning etc.

It might help to think of it more like a pot plant. The soil
is the wood, and it breaks down the wood to grow branches
across rock and brickwork, and through mortar and behind
plaster, to search out more wood for food. The branches can
carry the water it needs, so it is capable of infecting some
wood which isn't damp once it gets started. The flowers
(fruiting bodies) are like white cotten wool balls, and the
seeds (spores) are a dark red or brown powder which the flower
throws out some feet from it. The powder can lay around for
years after the fruiting bodies have gone, if not disturbed.

It requires a particular humidity range which doesn't occur
naturally in the UK, but can be found in poorly ventilated
enclosed spaces in houses. It will actually die all by itself
if exposed to good ventiallation -- you never see it growing
outdoors in the UK. It's natural habitat are caves in the
Himalayas where it feeds on the dead tree roots which
penetrate the cave walls. It was brought back to the UK in
wooden ships, where it also became a major problem.

I found a small outbreak under a bath. It was in a tiny block
of wood fixed to the wall. The branches had grown out along
the wall to find some more wood. However, it's blind, and it
had managed to stear a course which missed all the other wood,
and then it ran out of energy from the original tiny piece of
wood and died (fortunately). There was no sign it had ever
managed to grow a fruiting body.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 16 Jul 2003 10:13:39 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Mark writes:

I'm not familiar with dry rot (only the wet rot in my bathroom).

Is it a fungal rot caused by damp rather than the wood being rotten
through the water? The treatment of the wood and another poster
mentioning treatment/burning etc.

It might help to think of it more like a pot plant. The soil
is the wood, and it breaks down the wood to grow branches
across rock and brickwork, and through mortar and behind
plaster, to search out more wood for food. The branches can
carry the water it needs, so it is capable of infecting some
wood which isn't damp once it gets started. The flowers
(fruiting bodies) are like white cotten wool balls, and the
seeds (spores) are a dark red or brown powder which the flower
throws out some feet from it. The powder can lay around for
years after the fruiting bodies have gone, if not disturbed.

It requires a particular humidity range which doesn't occur
naturally in the UK, but can be found in poorly ventilated
enclosed spaces in houses. It will actually die all by itself
if exposed to good ventiallation -- you never see it growing
outdoors in the UK. It's natural habitat are caves in the
Himalayas where it feeds on the dead tree roots which
penetrate the cave walls. It was brought back to the UK in
wooden ships, where it also became a major problem.

I found a small outbreak under a bath. It was in a tiny block
of wood fixed to the wall. The branches had grown out along
the wall to find some more wood. However, it's blind, and it
had managed to stear a course which missed all the other wood,
and then it ran out of energy from the original tiny piece of
wood and died (fortunately). There was no sign it had ever
managed to grow a fruiting body.

Thanks for the description guys, makes a bit more sense now the extent
of the treatment. Still think I'd do it myself and save a couple of
grand. :-)

Mark S.

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On 16 Jul 2003 10:13:39 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

snip

It might help to think of it more like a pot plant. The soil
is the wood, and it breaks down the wood to grow branches
across rock and brickwork, and through mortar and behind
plaster, to search out more wood for food. The branches can
carry the water it needs, so it is capable of infecting some
wood which isn't damp once it gets started.

From what I've read, the rot will not spread through dry media, but it can
spread through damp media that would otherwise offer no nutritional value,
e.g. plaster and brickwork. This is what especially distinguishes it from
other rots.

The flowers
(fruiting bodies) are like white cotten wool balls, and the
seeds (spores) are a dark red or brown powder which the flower
throws out some feet from it. The powder can lay around for
years after the fruiting bodies have gone, if not disturbed.

It requires a particular humidity range which doesn't occur
naturally in the UK, but can be found in poorly ventilated
enclosed spaces in houses. It will actually die all by itself
if exposed to good ventiallation -- you never see it growing
outdoors in the UK. It's natural habitat are caves in the
Himalayas where it feeds on the dead tree roots which
penetrate the cave walls. It was brought back to the UK in
wooden ships, where it also became a major problem.

I found a small outbreak under a bath. It was in a tiny block
of wood fixed to the wall. The branches had grown out along
the wall to find some more wood. However, it's blind, and it
had managed to stear a course which missed all the other wood,
and then it ran out of energy from the original tiny piece of
wood and died (fortunately). There was no sign it had ever
managed to grow a fruiting body.

Thanks for the description guys, makes a bit more sense now the extent
of the treatment. Still think I'd do it myself and save a couple of
grand. :-)

Mark S.


1) sort out the ventilation. this alone can kill dry rot off almost
completely.

2) remove the source of the damp - without damp the fungus cannot live,
period. Spores can lurk in plaster and wood, but unless you remove and
replace all timber and plaster then you'll not get rid of them.

3) replace any structurally damaged timber. This isn't the same as
"infected" timber, but for example joists where the rot has attacked them to
the point where they have become seriously weakened.

4) whilst you've got the floor up, treat the timbers. If you replace joists
then you may as well replace them with pressure treated timber. Don't cut
the end that is adjacent to the air brick.

Of course, this all depends upon the extent of the problem. From your
description it doesn't sound like it warrants the draconian measures that
had been proposed.

cheers
Richard


--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

Stephen Fisher wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

Petrol, makes a cheap (somewhat dangerous!), dry rot fluid. Need to ensure
the local area ventilation is sorted before any use