I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air gap
from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

Cheers

Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Mar 20, 5:23*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air gap
from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

Cheers

Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

My house id sound proofed.
What sort of sounds are you trying to eliminate?
What is the nature of the wall behind?

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 5:23 pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air
gap
from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?
*******
My house id sound proofed.
What sort of sounds are you trying to eliminate?
What is the nature of the wall behind?
**********

1930's semi.
Brick party wall (presumed single).

Upstairs the bathrooms adjoin, so sounds of flatulence, flushing, showering
etc.

Downstairs the new kitchen/living area will be across the whole width of the
house, so eating, drinking, cooking and enjoying life to the full.

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

David WE Roberts wrote:
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air
gap from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm
ply/pb cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

Cheers

Dave R


should be pretty good. Hermetically seal it and possibly fill all air
gaps with sand as well.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

David WE Roberts wrote:

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 5:23 pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm
air gap
from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?
*******
My house id sound proofed.
What sort of sounds are you trying to eliminate?
What is the nature of the wall behind?
**********

1930's semi.
Brick party wall (presumed single).

Upstairs the bathrooms adjoin, so sounds of flatulence, flushing,
showering etc.

Hmm.. check above: no point in soundproofing the wall if the ceilings
share a common loft space..


Downstairs the new kitchen/living area will be across the whole width of
the house, so eating, drinking, cooking and enjoying life to the full.


? thats all jolly good but what has it to do with soundproofing...
--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
David WE Roberts wrote:
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air
gap from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

Cheers

Dave R


should be pretty good. Hermetically seal it and possibly fill all air gaps
with sand as well.


Ummm.....if they are filled with sand then they aren't air gaps.
They are sand gaps.
Won't the sand conduct sound?

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Mar 20, 5:23*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air gap
from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

Cheers

Dave R

It would help to an extent. If you have an inch or 2 to spare I'd up
the timber size, 2" is very weedy. You can improve it a bit more by
putting big lumps of masonry on the noggings, filling the cavity with
dense insulation batts, and using soundproofing plasterboard.


NT

In article , David WE Roberts
scribeth thus

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
David WE Roberts wrote:
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air
gap from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

Cheers

Dave R


should be pretty good. Hermetically seal it and possibly fill all air gaps
with sand as well.


Ummm.....if they are filled with sand then they aren't air gaps.
They are sand gaps.
Won't the sand conduct sound?


Sort of, it will damp it down a bit but an Air gap is the better thing.

Most all radio and recording studios are a "Room in a room" and well
isolated from each other by a decent Air gap...
--
Tony Sayer

On Mar 20, 5:23*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

The studwork is fixed top & bottom (not to existing wall), two layers
of plasterboard are overlapped to eliminate any acoustic short-cuts.
Often neoprene is added and works well, lead being far too costly
these days.

If the space above ceiling or below floor have any holes around joists
noise *will* simply bypass your acoustic studwork.

A wall with empty frogs (no mortar infill) has very poor acoustic
performance. Usually noticed by drilling into mortar 3/4" only to find
yourself flying against the wall as the drill collapses through an air
filled frog to embed itself on what little mortar is the other side.
Re-pointing can help, needs care re stability of the wall.

If this were noise through a bay window 3" studwork, I would suggest
bonding 40-50mm Marmox with Mapei Keraflex (or its cheaper clones) to
the wall. Whilst it is good thermal insulation with no mass, it has
good acoustic dampening properties to traffic noise - like a pillow
over your head.

You have a freestanding stud wall, so you may want to consider
acoustic insulation between the studs.

If your problem is just general noise now, consider what it will be
like if someone elderly moves in - with the TV turned full blast all
the time. It can get very wearing and sound insulation is justifiably
an important part of modern building regs.

David WE Roberts wrote on 3/20/2012 :
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air gap
from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

Cheers

Dave R

Air is a sound conduit, not an insulator. An air gap is dumb. A sound
barrier must be a solid. The harder the better. Visit a radio station
or a recording studio and you will see glass walls between the rooms.
Add anything hard to the wall and you will make great strides. Do the
same to the ceiling and fill all gaps. If you put a high density
material on both sides of a stud wall, you have gone as far as you can
without adding glass.

McGyver

On Mar 20, 11:17*pm, McGyver wrote:
An air gap is dumb.

The air gap is to stop the existing wall mechanically transmitting
sound to the new stud wall, acoustic coupling.

Closed Cell materials absorb high frequency sound - clips the
harshness re road traffic & speech.
Materials of Mass absorbs low frequency sound, certain elements of
speech, but also footfall & TV "drone".

In article ,
McGyver wrote:
Air is a sound conduit, not an insulator. An air gap is dumb. A sound
barrier must be a solid. The harder the better. Visit a radio station
or a recording studio and you will see glass walls between the rooms.

Two layers of glass with air between them. For decent sound insulation
that gap needs to be about 9". Which is why ordinary double glazing isn't
much use for sound insulation. Secondary glazing is.

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mar 20, 5:46*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...
On Mar 20, 5:23 pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote: I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air
gap
from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

*******
My house id sound proofed.
What sort of sounds are you trying to eliminate?
What is the nature of the wall behind?
**********

1930's semi.
Brick party wall (presumed single).

Upstairs the bathrooms adjoin, so sounds of flatulence, flushing, showering
etc.

Downstairs the new kitchen/living area will be across the whole width of the
house, so eating, drinking, cooking and enjoying life to the full.

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

I'd have thought a brick wall would be pretty good.
You may find the noise is getting into your place via the roof
space,ie going through their cieling into the roof space/loft and down
through yours.


I would get into the loft and see if you can hear noises from next
door up there.
If so, you need to look at the partition wall up there. Even a small
hole can let lots of sound through.
The likeliest place is where the partition wall joins the roof, but
there may be other holes.

You will probably find there is a commmon rafter (roof) hard up
against the partition wall, this is the spot to look to sealingup. Use
cement and silicon when itsgoneoff.
Pay special attention in the triangular corner where the roof meets
the ceiling, this is the shortest path for noise transmission.

On Mar 20, 5:23*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air gap
from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

Cheers

Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

There are two aspects to sound transmission. Airborn sound eg road
noise, and mechanically transmitted eg someone walking about upstairs.

There are two means of defeating transmitted sound, by reflection
(dense materials such as brick) and by isolation/absorption.
(eliminating the transmisson path) Basically the latter means
isolating surfaces by suspending surface materials on none rigid
materials and eliminating semi-rigid materials between wall surfaces
that carry sound.

Semi rigid material such as wood transmit airborne sound. Also thin
flexible materials such as plasterboard. Soft materials can absorb the
sound energy.
..

You have a sound reflector (the brick wall.) that is also
sufficiently rigid not to transmit airborne sound though it will
tranmit imacts on the wall.

But there needs to be no holes in your barrier first and foremost.

Here is the dB(A) benefit of neoprene when stuck onto Marmox:
http://www.ribaproductselector.com/D.../COL369005.pdf
They are sticking 2mm Neoprene on Marmox (6mm & 10mm) for flooring
impact noise absorption, footfall.

Here is the detailing of an acoustic wall...
http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/...howtowalls.htm

The devil is in the detail of design & workmanship.

Noise will walk through a single brick wall.
It may be brick, but the mortar joints usually provide a weak acoustic
barrier. Likewise it is a single leaf, having two free standing walls
(cavity separated by air gap) greatly improves acoustic performance
and is what they try to achieve above.

I believe neoprene can be sandwiched between two layers of
plasterboard to good effect, but can not recall if it needs to be
bonded rather than screwed through to get the best effect.

In article , McGyver
scribeth thus
David WE Roberts wrote on 3/20/2012 :
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air gap
from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm ply/pb
cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

Cheers

Dave R

Air is a sound conduit, not an insulator. An air gap is dumb. A sound
barrier must be a solid. The harder the better.

That so?..



Visit a radio station
or a recording studio and you will see glass walls between the rooms.

Yes quite correct. But what do you see -in- the walls?..


--
Tony Sayer

Here is a figure for plain Marmox.
Impact Sound Reduction BS-ISO140-8, weighted reduction in impact sound
(delta-Lw) = 21dB.

Plenty of other manufacturers of extruded polystyrene with bonded
glass-fibre mesh & cement on both sides.

For 3"-stud bay windows near a highway, not the OPs application, it
makes a very noticeable difference and quick to just bond on with
Mapei Keraflex and flash finishing plaster skim over ready for paint/
wallpaper. Stiffens & dampens well, but I would PU sealant the joints
or butt-slide tightly until the keraflex oozes out & wipe off to
ensure no gaps etc. With thicknesses up to 60mm the thermal insulation
benefit over 3"-stud with pebbledash is huge.

On 20/03/12 17:23, David WE Roberts wrote:
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air
gap from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm
ply/pb cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

I've been following the Gyproc guide to domestic building renovation for
the refurbishment of my Edwardian mid-terrace:

http://www.british-gypsum.com/pdf/LI...ovation_02.pdf

They detail their thoughts/products for sound insulation on pages 6 to
10. For example they suggests 25mm of Isover APR1200 acoustic
insulation, with 12.5mm Soundbloc over it. This will loose you a lot
less space. I can't vouch for how well it works as I haven't installed
any yet, but I've followed their instructions for thermal upgrades, and
they've made an enormous improvement.

"Cod Roe" wrote in message ...
On 20/03/12 17:23, David WE Roberts wrote:
I've been chatting to our architect and he suggests that an effective
strategy for sound insulation is to erect a stud wall with a 1"/25mm air
gap from the wall to the studs.
This stud to be surfaced with ply (to support fixings) then plasterboard
finish.

This gives a rough thickness of 25mm air gap, 50mm stud work, 25mm
ply/pb cover or 100mm/4" in total

What does the team think?

I've been following the Gyproc guide to domestic building renovation for
the refurbishment of my Edwardian mid-terrace:

http://www.british-gypsum.com/pdf/LI...ovation_02.pdf

They detail their thoughts/products for sound insulation on pages 6 to 10.
For example they suggests 25mm of Isover APR1200 acoustic insulation, with
12.5mm Soundbloc over it. This will loose you a lot less space. I can't
vouch for how well it works as I haven't installed any yet, but I've
followed their instructions for thermal upgrades, and they've made an
enormous improvement.


Thanks - useful.

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 20/03/2012 20:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
David WE Roberts wrote:

Downstairs the new kitchen/living area will be across the whole width
of the house, so eating, drinking, cooking and enjoying life to the full.


? thats all jolly good but what has it to do with soundproofing...

Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll? All fairly noisy...

--
Adrian C

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
On 20/03/2012 20:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
David WE Roberts wrote:

Downstairs the new kitchen/living area will be across the whole width
of the house, so eating, drinking, cooking and enjoying life to the
full.


? thats all jolly good but what has it to do with soundproofing...

Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll? All fairly noisy...


Not forgetting the blues :-)

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")