I'm about to wreck our dining room and it will soon re-emerge as a cosy
living room (estate agents would call it a "family room"). Eventually
I'll be installing a home cinema setup, and I'd like to get some fixed
wiring in place before decorating.

The trouble is I know nothing about home cinema gear so I don't know
what sort of wiring I'm going to need. Our TV, which hasn't been
switched on in years, is one of those fat heavy glass eyes with a mains
plug and an aerial socket. I'm aware that things have moved on since
then but I haven't kept up.

I'm thinking of a big flat screen in the middle of one wall, speakers in
the four corners (how high?), and a collection of black boxes near the
screen to make it all work. I have no idea what provision I should make
for connecting the boxes to the screen and speakers, other than knowing
I don't want wires trailing all over the place. Any advice appreciated.

I have little interest in broadcast TV but it would be daft not to have
any connection with the outside world. I'll be providing an internet
connection for the black boxes and I know how to do that. It's possible
that I'll get a satellite dish installed at some stage (there's no
prospect of cable) and I assume that the satellite wiring would enter
through the outside wall. That's nowhere near where the black boxes will
be - so how might I prepare for it? Or would I be wasting my time with
satellite when the internet is taking over?

The room's about 4 metres square, by the way, with a concrete floor
which will be carpeted, and thick stone walls.

--
Mike Barnes

Mike Barnes wrote:
I'm about to wreck our dining room and it will soon re-emerge as a cosy
living room (estate agents would call it a "family room"). Eventually
I'll be installing a home cinema setup, and I'd like to get some fixed
wiring in place before decorating.

The trouble is I know nothing about home cinema gear so I don't know
what sort of wiring I'm going to need. Our TV, which hasn't been
switched on in years, is one of those fat heavy glass eyes with a mains
plug and an aerial socket. I'm aware that things have moved on since
then but I haven't kept up.

I'm thinking of a big flat screen in the middle of one wall, speakers in
the four corners (how high?), and a collection of black boxes near the
screen to make it all work. I have no idea what provision I should make
for connecting the boxes to the screen and speakers, other than knowing
I don't want wires trailing all over the place. Any advice appreciated.

I have little interest in broadcast TV but it would be daft not to have
any connection with the outside world. I'll be providing an internet
connection for the black boxes and I know how to do that. It's possible
that I'll get a satellite dish installed at some stage (there's no
prospect of cable) and I assume that the satellite wiring would enter
through the outside wall. That's nowhere near where the black boxes will
be - so how might I prepare for it? Or would I be wasting my time with
satellite when the internet is taking over?

The room's about 4 metres square, by the way, with a concrete floor
which will be carpeted, and thick stone walls.


OK. Run several mains style cables (for audio) and a lot of CAT 5 (for
anything it might be useful for, like a home network) and coax (to the
TV from the loft amplifier/distributor) to wherever you might want to
have bits of the setup.

SEPARATELY run a mains ring.

Now even if you leave the cables coiled up inside a backing box, at
least the cables are there if you need them. Its generally no big deal
to hack out for another backing box and put a socket next door to one
that exists, and ,if there is enough cable, extend a particular service.

Mike Barnes wrote:

I'm about to wreck our dining room and it will soon re-emerge as a cosy
living room (estate agents would call it a "family room"). Eventually
I'll be installing a home cinema setup, and I'd like to get some fixed
wiring in place before decorating.

The trouble is I know nothing about home cinema gear so I don't know
what sort of wiring I'm going to need. Our TV, which hasn't been
switched on in years, is one of those fat heavy glass eyes with a mains
plug and an aerial socket. I'm aware that things have moved on since
then but I haven't kept up.

I'm thinking of a big flat screen in the middle of one wall, speakers in
the four corners (how high?),

I'll leave that to someone else - I have not advanced beyond basic sterio,
except to say that a mate got a pir of transmission tunnel monster speakers
back in the 90's and combined with good grade amp+preamp, they produced
extremely realistic sound.

and a collection of black boxes near the
screen to make it all work. I have no idea what provision I should make
for connecting the boxes to the screen and speakers, other than knowing
I don't want wires trailing all over the place. Any advice appreciated.

IME, you will want a TV with at least 4 HDMI inputs (everything is going
HDMI and the cables are fairly thin).

So you will want to the TV - probably:

1) Mains

2) several audio cables back to amp

3) ethernet to TV (yes, really - modern TVs can do iPlayer direct - I would
not be surprised if some will eventually do Netflix direct too).

4) Aerial to TV

5) HDMI for DVD

6) HDMI to Sky box if required - or BT Ondemand or Virgin box

7) Component or composite video (3-5 cables) to WII or some other games
console. Note Games Console may be able to provide Netflix streaming service
(my WII can).

So the potential for lots of cables is high. A big lump of D-Line trunking
looks pretty neat between the TV and the cupboard with the rest of the gear.

Then you'll need said cupboard - with a glass front to let the remotes work.

Will you build in a cupboard or use a free standing one?

Get or make one with lots of shelves, vertical void in the back for cabling
and as mentioned, glass doors. And ventilation.

I have little interest in broadcast TV but it would be daft not to have
any connection with the outside world. I'll be providing an internet
connection for the black boxes and I know how to do that. It's possible
that I'll get a satellite dish installed at some stage (there's no
prospect of cable) and I assume that the satellite wiring would enter
through the outside wall. That's nowhere near where the black boxes will
be - so how might I prepare for it? Or would I be wasting my time with
satellite when the internet is taking over?

Satellite will always have 100's of channels - but we are fast moving
towards the time when on line streaming will provide anything you want over
a 2+Mbit connection.

Netflix is already technically pretty good. Their catalogue is weak but to
be fair they have only just started with UK streaming and I am seeing stuff
being added every day - so it is only a matter of time.

The room's about 4 metres square, by the way, with a concrete floor
which will be carpeted, and thick stone walls.


Given that particular scenario - I would bolt the TV to the middle of the
best wall for viewing. Then in the corner I would build a quality (but could
be "rustic looking" wooden cabinet to house the kit. The cabinet would have
a PDU for mains (you'll need loads of sockets here but not many amps).

Heavy bit of D-Line or some suitable trunking[1] across to the TV (direct -
or along the skirting area then up). I would allow 4 square inches of cable
area in this - seems a lot but it will fill).


The cabinet will end up with a load of piles of surplus cable so it would be
a good idea to have a 4" deep void behind the shelves with some tie back
points for tie wraps or velcro bands. The other solution is to get custom
cables. Given you will have to buy HDMI cables for your kit, go to google
and locate the best source, Do NOT buy from COMET, Dixons, Curries etc -
they will charge you 5-10 times the price. Flat HDMI cable is easier to
route and you can buy it to the nearest metre. You could also shorten all
mains cables in the cabinet and even put IEC plugs on as IEC PDUs are more
compact than 13A.


As far as the sat goes, get it taken in at ceiling height and drop it down
to the cabinet from the floor void above. You would do well to drop some
conduit (20mm round) down to the sit eof the cabinet - perhaps 6 lenghts to
3 double back boxes. This should give you more than enough for mains,
aerial, sat, network and mabey speaker cables back up.

You didn't say of your stone walls were plastered?


My solution is only one of a thousand possibles - it may not suit what you
were thinking of - other will have other ideas...

--
Tim Watts

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
I'm about to wreck our dining room and it will soon re-emerge as a cosy
living room (estate agents would call it a "family room"). Eventually
I'll be installing a home cinema setup, and I'd like to get some fixed
wiring in place before decorating.

The trouble is I know nothing about home cinema gear so I don't know
what sort of wiring I'm going to need. Our TV, which hasn't been
switched on in years, is one of those fat heavy glass eyes with a mains
plug and an aerial socket. I'm aware that things have moved on since
then but I haven't kept up.

I'm thinking of a big flat screen in the middle of one wall, speakers in
the four corners (how high?), and a collection of black boxes near the
screen to make it all work. I have no idea what provision I should make
for connecting the boxes to the screen and speakers, other than knowing
I don't want wires trailing all over the place. Any advice appreciated.

I have little interest in broadcast TV but it would be daft not to have
any connection with the outside world. I'll be providing an internet
connection for the black boxes and I know how to do that. It's possible
that I'll get a satellite dish installed at some stage (there's no
prospect of cable) and I assume that the satellite wiring would enter
through the outside wall. That's nowhere near where the black boxes will
be - so how might I prepare for it? Or would I be wasting my time with
satellite when the internet is taking over?

The room's about 4 metres square, by the way, with a concrete floor
which will be carpeted, and thick stone walls.



What ever you put in WILL be wrong!

How much wrecking are you planning on? is there depth in the wall and
space to fit buried conduit and some draw wires? Then either you or
whoever fits the system could pull their own cables through when needed.
--
Bill

On Feb 15, 11:26*am, Tim Watts wrote:
IME, you will want a TV with at least 4 HDMI inputs (everything is going
HDMI and the cables are fairly thin).

Or an amp with lots of hdmi inputs and do the switching through the
amp. Not that that helps with the cabling question of course.

Apparently you can make speaker cable from cat5(!)
http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html

Matt

matthelliwell wrote:
On Feb 15, 11:26 am, Tim Watts wrote:
IME, you will want a TV with at least 4 HDMI inputs (everything is going
HDMI and the cables are fairly thin).

Or an amp with lots of hdmi inputs and do the switching through the
amp. Not that that helps with the cabling question of course.

Apparently you can make speaker cable from cat5(!)
http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html

You can, but its not low enough resistance for decent bass.


T & E is as good as anything else for 'in wall' installation.

As heavy a grade as you care to install!


Matt

T & E is as good as anything else for 'in wall' installation.

As heavy a grade as you care to install!

Hmm, a good use for old that "old colour" Black-and-red I've got under the
stairs. Excellent!

Paul DS.

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:42:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

You can, but its not low enough resistance for decent bass.

(Cat5 as speaker cable)

True enough but not an issue with most domestic home cinema systems
where the "sub woofer" also handles the LF from the other five
channels via "bass management". This avoids the requirement of trying
to place 5 full range (ie large) speaker boxes in the room.

As for the OP it's probably easier to buy an AV Amp of some sort to
stick in the pile of black boxes and everything goes through that.
All the telly needs is a single HDMI and mains. No interest in
broadcast telly so there isn't a requirement to get an audio signal
back from the telly's reciever(s) to the AV amp. Some hint of DSAT
but that would go through the AV Amp...

I'd be wary of mounting a TV up on a wall, too easy to get it too
high and a crick in the neck watching it.

Cabling position really depends on the layout of the room and
location of the viewing listening position. Each corner wouldn't
really be very good if the listening position screen line is on a
diagonal of the room for instance.

--
Cheers
Dave.

It's impossible to work all this out without knowing the exact equipment
you'll be buying. All I can suggest if you wish to make provision before
doing this is to run in adequate trunking to take all the cables etc when
you do decide what to get.

--
*It was all so different before everything changed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The room's about 4 metres square, by the way, with a concrete floor
which will be carpeted, and thick stone walls.



What ever you put in WILL be wrong!

How much wrecking are you planning on? is there depth in the wall and
space to fit buried conduit and some draw wires? Then either you or
whoever fits the system could pull their own cables through when needed.

Excellent idea if you can do that...
--
Tony Sayer

On 15/02/2012 13:11 Paul D Smith wrote:

T & E is as good as anything else for 'in wall' installation.

As heavy a grade as you care to install!

Hmm, a good use for old that "old colour" Black-and-red I've got under
the stairs. Excellent!

Nooooo! Save that for jobs where you might not want to use new-colour
cable...

--
F

In article , F
news@nowhere.? writes

Nooooo! Save that for jobs where you might not want to use new-colour
cable...

+1.

100m reels of red'n'black'n'green/yellow jealously guarded here...

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Nooooo! Save that for jobs where you might not want to use new-colour
cable...

Thought that was strictly illegal - though how anyone can tell I installed
it today and not 10 years ago I'm not sure ;-).

Paul DS.

In article , Paul D Smith
writes

Thought that was strictly illegal - though how anyone can tell I installed
it today and not 10 years ago I'm not sure ;-).

Exactly. Plausible deniability :-)

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

tony sayer wrote:
The room's about 4 metres square, by the way, with a concrete floor
which will be carpeted, and thick stone walls.


What ever you put in WILL be wrong!

How much wrecking are you planning on? is there depth in the wall and
space to fit buried conduit and some draw wires? Then either you or
whoever fits the system could pull their own cables through when needed.

Excellent idea if you can do that...
I always advocate lots of buried conduit. You can get flexi in all
diameters from 12mm to 50mm. 18 or 25mm is OK for most jobs. Put draw
wires in. Terminate in deep steel patresses (backboxes) set into the
wall. Cover with blank plates until needed.

Bill

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , F
news@nowhere.? writes

Nooooo! Save that for jobs where you might not want to use new-colour
cable...

+1.

100m reels of red'n'black'n'green/yellow jealously guarded here...

That will be a flex then. T & E doesn't have insulation on the earth.

Bill

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Paul D Smith
writes

Thought that was strictly illegal - though how anyone can tell I installed
it today and not 10 years ago I'm not sure ;-).

Exactly. Plausible deniability :-)

It comes to something when we have to be prepared to lie about jobs
we're done in our own homes.

Bill

In message , Bill Wright
writes
tony sayer wrote:
The room's about 4 metres square, by the way, with a concrete floor
which will be carpeted, and thick stone walls.


What ever you put in WILL be wrong!

How much wrecking are you planning on? is there depth in the wall
and space to fit buried conduit and some draw wires? Then either
you or whoever fits the system could pull their own cables through
when needed.
Excellent idea if you can do that...
I always advocate lots of buried conduit. You can get flexi in all
diameters from 12mm to 50mm. 18 or 25mm is OK for most jobs. Put draw
wires in. Terminate in deep steel patresses (backboxes) set into the
wall. Cover with blank plates until needed.

Bill

Just a pity that builders don't have the same idea when they build
houses. My wife often complains that I am being too industrial when I do
work around the house, I try and transpose the words industrial and
sensible when she does.

You can never have too many cable routes and draw wires in a home.
--
Bill
( A different one )

On Feb 15, 12:15*pm, Bill wrote:

What ever you put in WILL be wrong!

True. Especially if you don't have the equipment planned before you
start.

Some people hang the TV off a false wall, built ~15cm in front of the
real one. You can hide anything behind it then, and get behind it
fairly easily (depending on how you build it). Much easier than
channelling into stone walls.

Cheers,
David.

I think that Satellite will be a good idea, as the bandwidth problems are
always going to plague the internet.
I know many people have centre speakers, left and right, a couple of sub
woofers, and two or four other speakers behind the listener or part way down
a room. Normally these tend to be smaller than the front ones.
I'd not go for the extremes some do, with butt kickers under the furniture
though!

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
I'm about to wreck our dining room and it will soon re-emerge as a cosy
living room (estate agents would call it a "family room"). Eventually
I'll be installing a home cinema setup, and I'd like to get some fixed
wiring in place before decorating.

The trouble is I know nothing about home cinema gear so I don't know
what sort of wiring I'm going to need. Our TV, which hasn't been
switched on in years, is one of those fat heavy glass eyes with a mains
plug and an aerial socket. I'm aware that things have moved on since
then but I haven't kept up.

I'm thinking of a big flat screen in the middle of one wall, speakers in
the four corners (how high?), and a collection of black boxes near the
screen to make it all work. I have no idea what provision I should make
for connecting the boxes to the screen and speakers, other than knowing
I don't want wires trailing all over the place. Any advice appreciated.

I have little interest in broadcast TV but it would be daft not to have
any connection with the outside world. I'll be providing an internet
connection for the black boxes and I know how to do that. It's possible
that I'll get a satellite dish installed at some stage (there's no
prospect of cable) and I assume that the satellite wiring would enter
through the outside wall. That's nowhere near where the black boxes will
be - so how might I prepare for it? Or would I be wasting my time with
satellite when the internet is taking over?

The room's about 4 metres square, by the way, with a concrete floor
which will be carpeted, and thick stone walls.

--
Mike Barnes

A square room is a nightmare, acoustically as are really hard surfaces. Lots
of honk and echo.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
tony sayer wrote:
The room's about 4 metres square, by the way, with a concrete floor
which will be carpeted, and thick stone walls.


What ever you put in WILL be wrong!

How much wrecking are you planning on? is there depth in the wall and
space to fit buried conduit and some draw wires? Then either you or
whoever fits the system could pull their own cables through when needed.

Excellent idea if you can do that...
I always advocate lots of buried conduit. You can get flexi in all
diameters from 12mm to 50mm. 18 or 25mm is OK for most jobs. Put draw
wires in. Terminate in deep steel patresses (backboxes) set into the wall.
Cover with blank plates until needed.

Bill

Mike Barnes :
I'm about to wreck our dining room and it will soon re-emerge as a cosy
living room (estate agents would call it a "family room"). Eventually
I'll be installing a home cinema setup, and I'd like to get some fixed
wiring in place before decorating.

The trouble is I know nothing about home cinema gear so I don't know
what sort of wiring I'm going to need. Our TV, which hasn't been
switched on in years, is one of those fat heavy glass eyes with a mains
plug and an aerial socket. I'm aware that things have moved on since
then but I haven't kept up.

I'm thinking of a big flat screen in the middle of one wall, speakers in
the four corners (how high?), and a collection of black boxes near the
screen to make it all work. I have no idea what provision I should make
for connecting the boxes to the screen and speakers, other than knowing
I don't want wires trailing all over the place. Any advice appreciated.

I have little interest in broadcast TV but it would be daft not to have
any connection with the outside world. I'll be providing an internet
connection for the black boxes and I know how to do that. It's possible
that I'll get a satellite dish installed at some stage (there's no
prospect of cable) and I assume that the satellite wiring would enter
through the outside wall. That's nowhere near where the black boxes will
be - so how might I prepare for it? Or would I be wasting my time with
satellite when the internet is taking over?

The room's about 4 metres square, by the way, with a concrete floor
which will be carpeted, and thick stone walls.

I'm following up my own posting to thank everyone who's responded and
clarify a few things. Sorry not to reply individually but there's so
much overlapping information that this way makes most sense to me.

I know some people like to go to town on their video systems but TBH I
can't see that happening here. We don't watch TV at the moment and I can
see this system being used for the occasional film on DVD or whatever or
so that visitors can get the sports results, but not much else. There's
another room for listening to music, with the obligatory monster
speakers and cables. So I'm not looking for ultimate quality or
something I can upgrade for fun, just something that works and doesn't
look too conspicuous. Having said that surround sound would be nice and
AFAICS won't be terribly difficult.

Regarding the height of the speakers I'm tempted to put them on floor
stands with low-level outlets so that the height is adjustable and the
stands will mask the leads.

I do like the idea of mains cable for the fixed speaker wiring because
it's thin (especially if removed from the outer sheath) and it's
manageable. The walls are plastered, but unfortunately the plaster is
stippled. I wouldn't have chosen it but I can't be arsed to skim it all
over so it's staying. I'm therefore looking at speaker wiring behind the
skirting boards, or possibly on the floor next to the carpet grippers.
But what sort of connectors would you expect to see at each end? I know
wire binding posts would be cool but I'd prefer a plug-in connection.

Knowing nothing about modern TVs I assumed that the topology would be
like a PC, with all the intelligence and connectivity in a table-top
box, and a screen that's *just* a screen with only two connections
(mains and video). Looking at ads on the internet though, it seems that
everything tends to come in one lump and if you want to put your screen
on the wall you have to run all the bloody wires up there as well. Have
I got that right?

As I said I'm looking at a screen location in the centre of a wall. The
room is littered with obstacles (two external windows, one internal
window, fireplace, central heating radiator) so there isn't a great deal
of choice. The location I had in mind is on chimney breast, and yes, the
fire will be used. I don't know whether that's a bad idea, heat-wise.
The fire is a cast iron wood-burning stove entirely contained within the
fire opening (the front of stove is behind the plane of the wall) and
the flue is lined so it could be worse I suppose. Looking on the bright
side, there's an alcove to the left of the fire, 500mm deep, which would
be ideal for the equipment cabinet, which I'd buy if possible or make if
I can't find anything suitable. And if the wiring is in a surface
conduit I could route it up the side of the chimney breast and sneak it
round to the screen quite inconspicuously. I haven't decided on a screen
size yet but 60 inches isn't out of the question and would just about
fill the 1500mm width of the chimney breast anyway.

Height-wise the fireplace containing the stove is only 800mm high so the
screen wouldn't have to be particularly high off the floor. At the
cinema I like to sit on the front row so I'm used to looking up! If
rising hot air is likely to be a problem I might well fit a "decorative"
shelf below the screen to deflect it but that wouldn't add too much to
the height.

The other possible location for the screen is across the corner in the
aforementioned alcove but that would limit the screen size and I don't
know how the surround sound would work with the screen in one corner and
viewers in the opposite corner.

Thanks for all the ideas, my thoughts are focusing nicely. Ideally I
would spec out the equipment now, but I'm putting that off for as long
as possible.

One last question: satellite. Is it a simple coax cable like UHF or is
there more to it than that?

--
Mike Barnes

En el artículo , Bill Wright
escribió:

It comes to something when we have to be prepared to lie about jobs
we're done in our own homes.

indeed. You can blame two Jaaaaaaaahhhhgggs for that.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:02:11 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

Knowing nothing about modern TVs I assumed that the topology would be
like a PC, with all the intelligence and connectivity in a table-top
box, and a screen that's *just* a screen with only two connections
(mains and video).

That is how a system using and AV amp would be set up.

Looking at ads on the internet though, it seems that everything tends to
come in one lump and if you want to put your screen on the wall you have
to run all the bloody wires up there as well. Have I got that right?

Not quite sure what you mean. If you want to use the TV's receivers
they will obviously need their appropiate aerial feeds but if you are
going satellite then that box will sit by the AV amp and be fed to
the TV via that so you can get the full digital sound from the sat
box to the amp, like wise the DVD/BluRay would plug into the AV amp.
Most AV amps have a variety of inputs so your Playstation, XBox ext
would also plug into the AV amp but I don't think that is an issue
for you.

At the cinema I like to sit on the front row so I'm used to looking up!

Cinema seats tend to be inclined to match the screen. An ordinary
sofa might be a bit to vertical.

One last question: satellite. Is it a simple coax cable like UHF or is
there more to it than that?

There is an active box at the dish (the LNB) this converts the
satellite siganl into frequencies that are easier to squirt down
coax. It also selects polarisation and band under control of the
satellite receiver. This means each satellite tuner needs it's own
feed from the LNB. Note "tuner", to allow you to watch one channel
and record another you need two feeds. If your TV has a satellite
tuner that will also need it's own feed.

--
Cheers
Dave.

En el artículo , Bill Wright
escribió:

That will be a flex then. T & E doesn't have insulation on the earth.

All 3 single core unfortunately. 's ok run in conduit. Ran out of T&E
a while ago.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Dave Liquorice :
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:02:11 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

Knowing nothing about modern TVs I assumed that the topology would be
like a PC, with all the intelligence and connectivity in a table-top
box, and a screen that's *just* a screen with only two connections
(mains and video).

That is how a system using and AV amp would be set up.

We're getting a bit off-topic but I appreciate the help. So can you buy
a TV that's just effectively a monitor, or do you buy one with all the
gubbins in and then bypass it (like onboard sound in a PC)?

Looking at ads on the internet though, it seems that everything tends to
come in one lump and if you want to put your screen on the wall you have
to run all the bloody wires up there as well. Have I got that right?

Not quite sure what you mean. If you want to use the TV's receivers
they will obviously need their appropiate aerial feeds but if you are
going satellite then that box will sit by the AV amp and be fed to
the TV via that so you can get the full digital sound from the sat
box to the amp, like wise the DVD/BluRay would plug into the AV amp.
Most AV amps have a variety of inputs so your Playstation, XBox ext
would also plug into the AV amp but I don't think that is an issue
for you.

You're right, I'm unlikely to be plugging in that sort of stuff, and
presumably I'd be running all those speaker wires to the amp rather than
the TV.

At the cinema I like to sit on the front row so I'm used to looking up!

Cinema seats tend to be inclined to match the screen. An ordinary
sofa might be a bit to vertical.

Noted.

One last question: satellite. Is it a simple coax cable like UHF or is
there more to it than that?

There is an active box at the dish (the LNB) this converts the
satellite siganl into frequencies that are easier to squirt down
coax. It also selects polarisation and band under control of the
satellite receiver. This means each satellite tuner needs it's own
feed from the LNB. Note "tuner", to allow you to watch one channel
and record another you need two feeds. If your TV has a satellite
tuner that will also need it's own feed.

Eek! Clearly some advanced planning is needed in order to get the right
number of feeds. Fortunately I've worked out a route from the roof to
the proposed equipment cabinet that won't show.

You say "active" box at the dish so does it get its power from the tuner
by DC across the coax?

Is satellite a DIY sort of job or should I call in the specialists?

--
Mike Barnes

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:28:54 +0000, Mike Barnes wrote:

We're getting a bit off-topic but I appreciate the help. So can you buy
a TV that's just effectively a monitor, or do you buy one with all the
gubbins in and then bypass it (like onboard sound in a PC)?

You can get TV's with less inputs and fewer tuners. You really ought
to buy on the quality and resolution of the panel though and just not
ring all the bells and blow all the whistles that a decent set will
come with.

We haven't touched on the actual telly spec side yet...

... presumably I'd be running all those speaker wires to the amp rather
than the TV.

Yes to the amp. Very few (if any?) TV's have built in surround
amplifiers.

You say "active" box at the dish so does it get its power from the tuner
by DC across the coax?

Yes it's powered from the satellite box.

Is satellite a DIY sort of job or should I call in the specialists?

Very DIYable the Dish just needs to be able to have a good clear view
of the right bit of sky. That is roughly somewhere that is sunlit at
about 20 past 11 (or is it 20 past 10?) in the morning. The sun will
be quite a bit lower at this time of year and higher midsummer but it
gives you a good idea for suitable places.

The dish doesn't need to be a chimney height, ours it at about 8'
above the ground high enough to be out of the way but low enough to
be whacked with a broom handle to knock the ice off it when that
stops it working.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Mike Barnes wrote:

One last question: satellite. Is it a simple coax cable like UHF or is
there more to it than that?

Run two CT100 or equivalent cables to the receiver. This is copper foil
on copper braid cable.

This cable is not moisture proof so do not surround it with wet plaster.

If I were you I'd run four cables in because the future starts here. And
at the least a draw wire so you can pull some fibre in later.

Bill

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Bill Wright
escribió:

It comes to something when we have to be prepared to lie about jobs
we're done in our own homes.

indeed. You can blame two Jaaaaaaaahhhhgggs for that.

All it means is that respectable people disobey the law. That devalues
the law, and is the start of the road to anarchy.

Bill

Mike Barnes wrote:

You say "active" box at the dish so does it get its power from the tuner
by DC across the coax?
Yes.

Is satellite a DIY sort of job or should I call in the specialists?
You just make sure you have two CT100 cables running from the receiver
position to an accessible outdoor position. At the outdoor end tape up
the ends of the cables so damp doesn't get in.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Bill Wright
escribió:

It comes to something when we have to be prepared to lie about jobs
we're done in our own homes.

indeed. You can blame two Jaaaaaaaahhhhgggs for that.

All it means is that respectable people disobey the law. That devalues
the law, and is the start of the road to anarchy.

Bill

Certainly means rather than viewing the law as black and white (like I was
taught to - OK I'm old...) I evaluate everything as to its reasonableness
and ignore the ******** as long as I think there will be minimal
repercussions.

Of course, my sense of reasonable differs to someone elses....

--
Tim Watts

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Bill Wright
escribió:

It comes to something when we have to be prepared to lie about jobs
we're done in our own homes.

indeed. You can blame two Jaaaaaaaahhhhgggs for that.

All it means is that respectable people disobey the law. That devalues
the law, and is the start of the road to anarchy.

Most don't even know what 'the law' is as regards doing repairs or
alterations to domestic wiring. Especially pros, by what they state.

--
*It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Bill Wright
escribió:

It comes to something when we have to be prepared to lie about jobs
we're done in our own homes.
indeed. You can blame two Jaaaaaaaahhhhgggs for that.

All it means is that respectable people disobey the law. That devalues
the law, and is the start of the road to anarchy.

Most don't even know what 'the law' is as regards doing repairs or
alterations to domestic wiring. Especially pros, by what they state.

Quite. But if the law was seen as good and valid people would know it
and most would obey it.

Bill

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Most don't even know what 'the law' is as regards doing repairs or
alterations to domestic wiring. Especially pros, by what they state.

Quite. But if the law was seen as good and valid people would know it
and most would obey it.

This sort of 'law' is never going to be fully understood by the majority.
Leaving it open to interpretation by those who lobbied for it in the first
place - like trade bodies. To their greater advantage. CORGI were
notorious for this. But it does little to stop the cowboys.

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Bill Wright
escribió:

That will be a flex then. T & E doesn't have insulation on the earth.

All 3 single core unfortunately. 's ok run in conduit. Ran out of T&E
a while ago.

It doesn't matter, the new colours were on sale before prat P came in so you
could have used the new colours.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
It's impossible to work all this out without knowing the exact equipment
you'll be buying. All I can suggest if you wish to make provision before
doing this is to run in adequate trunking to take all the cables etc when
you do decide what to get.

Its not that hard for home cinema.
The only thing you need on the wall is the screen and the centre speaker.
You then use HDMI to connect to an AV amp and some T&E for the speaker and a
mains lead.

Then you need front speakers either side but probably not close to the
screen.

There are also rears and possibly side speakers and maybe even high speakers
to add elsewhere.

The LFE (subwoofer(s)) can go out the way somewhere.

You can make it more complicated but I don't see why, the latest AV amps
will transcode other video to HDMI so you never need to send composite,
component or SCART to the screen.

The only other things you may want is Ethernet if you want to use a smart TV
as opposed to a smart blueray or a PC and/or an IR repeater if your screen
doesn't send commands over its HDMI to control the AV amp, etc.

In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
It's impossible to work all this out without knowing the exact
equipment you'll be buying. All I can suggest if you wish to make
provision before doing this is to run in adequate trunking to take all
the cables etc when you do decide what to get.

Its not that hard for home cinema. The only thing you need on the wall
is the screen and the centre speaker. You then use HDMI to connect to an
AV amp and some T&E for the speaker and a mains lead.

Far too simple. It is generally easier to route all your sources through
the TV and then feed to the AV amp. Most displays require the audio to be
delayed and a decent TV will do this for you.




--
*When blondes have more fun, do they know it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
It's impossible to work all this out without knowing the exact
equipment you'll be buying. All I can suggest if you wish to make
provision before doing this is to run in adequate trunking to take all
the cables etc when you do decide what to get.

Its not that hard for home cinema. The only thing you need on the wall
is the screen and the centre speaker. You then use HDMI to connect to an
AV amp and some T&E for the speaker and a mains lead.

Far too simple. It is generally easier to route all your sources through
the TV and then feed to the AV amp.

You must be joking.

Most displays require the audio to be
delayed and a decent TV will do this for you.

So will a good AV amp, and there is data in the HDMI data put out by the TV
to suggest how much to do it by.

In any case the audio wont be coming from the TV, it will be the master
audio from the blueray player or the DD from other sources, it need
(should!) never go anywhere near the TV.

"dennis@home" :
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
It's impossible to work all this out without knowing the exact equipment
you'll be buying. All I can suggest if you wish to make provision before
doing this is to run in adequate trunking to take all the cables etc when
you do decide what to get.

Its not that hard for home cinema.
The only thing you need on the wall is the screen and the centre speaker.
You then use HDMI to connect to an AV amp and some T&E for the speaker
and a mains lead.

Then you need front speakers either side but probably not close to the
screen.

There are also rears and possibly side speakers and maybe even high
speakers to add elsewhere.

The LFE (subwoofer(s)) can go out the way somewhere.

You can make it more complicated but I don't see why, the latest AV
amps will transcode other video to HDMI so you never need to send
composite, component or SCART to the screen.

The only other things you may want is Ethernet if you want to use a
smart TV as opposed to a smart blueray or a PC and/or an IR repeater if
your screen doesn't send commands over its HDMI to control the AV amp,
etc.

You've summarised my conclusions from this thread and the web research
it's prompted me to do.

I've been encouraged to make up my mind what sort of gear I want, and I
think I'll be getting something like this:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/panaso...-System_review

Plus a big screen of course.

I've worked out how to get coax from the roof to the receiver without
making a mess, so I'll just leave that for the time being, until a TV
signal is wanted (which might be never).

--
Mike Barnes

In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
Far too simple. It is generally easier to route all your sources
through the TV and then feed to the AV amp.

You must be joking.

No.

Most displays require the audio to be
delayed and a decent TV will do this for you.

So will a good AV amp, and there is data in the HDMI data put out by the
TV to suggest how much to do it by.

I'd rather have a decent amp without all that crap. Unless it is only ever
used for 'home cinema'.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.