Ever been sent home,,, to the docs,,, from site smelling of Putty and work....
take care cos the Gps in Southern Scotland reckon you are ****e,,
iffen you dare come in their exam room smelling of work...

yo is just meat for the trainees operating table....

I was sent home with a hernia,,,

And they fixed me for urology training
when I was anaesthetised and unconscious
lying there with mplicit trust,, expecting a hernia repair...

see here...

http://s867.photobucket.com/albums/a...y%20Stuff/RED/

They don't reckon people what do manual work on site
are competent to know when they is getting ****ed over..

GP's and consultants walk around their manor like minor gods
and they are cos the lawyers and papers will not lift a finger help you...


.................................................. .

Rupert Bear. wrote:
Ever been sent home,,, to the docs,,, from site smelling of Putty and work....
take care cos the Gps in Southern Scotland reckon you are ****e,,
iffen you dare come in their exam room smelling of work...

yo is just meat for the trainees operating table....

I was sent home with a hernia,,,

And they fixed me for urology training
when I was anaesthetised and unconscious
lying there with mplicit trust,, expecting a hernia repair...

see here...

http://s867.photobucket.com/albums/a...y%20Stuff/RED/

They don't reckon people what do manual work on site
are competent to know when they is getting ****ed over..

GP's and consultants walk around their manor like minor gods
and they are cos the lawyers and papers will not lift a finger help you...


..................................................

I think you need to see a doctor.

Chris Hogg wrote:

Being employed by Basil Fawlty?

Damn! Beat me to it ...

On 06/02/2012 04:45, Rupert Bear. wrote:
Ever been sent home,,, to the docs,,, from site smelling of Putty and work....
take care cos the Gps in Southern Scotland reckon you are ****e,,
iffen you dare come in their exam room smelling of work...

Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:


Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:57:10 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:


Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.



Perhaps more OT but how does the whole appointment system work there?
Phone and online I assume.

Here if you ring up the chances are you are told to ring back after
2pm when they have released more appointments.

--
http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk

On 06/02/2012 10:57, Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:


Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.

That does not sound a particularly good business model, although it may
well be popular with patients. GP surgeries are businesses and that sort
of availability suggests they are not fully utilising all their resources.

Colin Bignell

On Feb 6, 8:59*am, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
Being employed by Basil Fawlty?

Damn! Beat me to it ...

Que?

On Feb 6, 12:55*pm, Nightjar
wrote:
On 06/02/2012 10:57, Roger Mills wrote:

On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:

Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.

That does not sound a particularly good business model, although it may
well be popular with patients. GP surgeries are businesses and that sort
of availability suggests they are not fully utilising all their resources..

The problem seems to be that the OP smelled of **** and was treated
accordingly.

Nightjar wrote:

On 06/02/2012 10:57, Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:


Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.

That does not sound a particularly good business model, although it may
well be popular with patients. GP surgeries are businesses and that sort
of availability suggests they are not fully utilising all their resources.

Colin Bignell

If it is, then it shouldn't be. GPs offer a service, paid for by taxes. The
business model is in this context an artifical construct, and whilst it may
have some practical uses in the real world of running a surgery, it should
not become some sort of dogma. Bit like bean counting...

I am sure a typical GP has plenty to do in the odd gap between patients such
as writing referral letters, catching up on the Lancet[1] and so on.

[1] And yes, I am very happy if they read work related "recreational"
material in work time. There are always new techniques and news coming out
and my own GP seems particularly good at staying informed.


--
Tim Watts

Nightjar wrote:
On 06/02/2012 10:57, Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:


Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.

That does not sound a particularly good business model, although it may
well be popular with patients. GP surgeries are businesses and that sort
of availability suggests they are not fully utilising all their resources.

Stupid idea trying to run them as a business. The whole of the NHS
costs money, i.e. it's just a big 'loss' to the country as a whole.
Perpetuating this fiction that hospitals, or surgeries, or whatever
can 'make a profit' is a load of nonsense.


--
Chris Green

wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 06/02/2012 10:57, Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:

Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell
Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.
That does not sound a particularly good business model, although it may
well be popular with patients. GP surgeries are businesses and that sort
of availability suggests they are not fully utilising all their resources.

Stupid idea trying to run them as a business. The whole of the NHS
costs money, i.e. it's just a big 'loss' to the country as a whole.
Perpetuating this fiction that hospitals, or surgeries, or whatever
can 'make a profit' is a load of nonsense.


Thats not the issue: I had a huge argument with an Ex NHS nurse. She had
it in her head that 'running it like a business' meant 'making a profit'


When her husband and I were trying to say 'run it as if patents were
customers, not as a weird flat series of isloated doctors running
little fiefdoms'.

I have never in my life seen such and extraordinarily disorganised
management structure..

Great staff, rotten system.

Rupert Bear. wrote:
Ever been sent home,,, to the docs,,, from site smelling of Putty and
work.... take care cos the Gps in Southern Scotland reckon you are
****e,,
iffen you dare come in their exam room smelling of work...

yo is just meat for the trainees operating table....

I was sent home with a hernia,,,

And they fixed me for urology training
when I was anaesthetised and unconscious
lying there with mplicit trust,, expecting a hernia repair...

see here...

http://s867.photobucket.com/albums/a...y%20Stuff/RED/

They don't reckon people what do manual work on site
are competent to know when they is getting ****ed over..

GP's and consultants walk around their manor like minor gods
and they are cos the lawyers and papers will not lift a finger help
you...

FWIW, (and I appreciate that it will do no good whatsoever), some persistent
numbness after an open hernia repair is common. "Open" repairs are
generally done for bigger more severe hernias. The dose of cyclizine that
you were prescribed was an anti-emetic one. If it have been oxytetracyline
that you were given, it would have been in the order of 250-500mg, not 50mg.
Tracking of blood down to the scrotum after an open hernia repair is common.

Time to move on.

Tim

On 06/02/2012 11:41, mogga wrote:


Perhaps more OT but how does the whole appointment system work there?
Phone and online I assume.

Here if you ring up the chances are you are told to ring back after
2pm when they have released more appointments.


Yes, we can ring (geographic number, *not* 0844 etc!) or use the on-line
system. There is no restriction on advance bookings - so you can make an
appointment for a month's time if appropriate, without any of this
nonsense of mad scrambles for appointments on the day. I guess that they
hold a few appointments back for emergencies and don't display them
on-line because you can sometimes get an appointment by phoning, even
when the on-line system says that there aren't any. The general policy
is to provide an appointment on the day of asking or the following day
(unless you specifically want it later than that).
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 06/02/2012 14:08, Tim Watts wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

On 06/02/2012 10:57, Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:


Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.

That does not sound a particularly good business model, although it may
well be popular with patients. GP surgeries are businesses and that sort
of availability suggests they are not fully utilising all their resources.

Colin Bignell

If it is, then it shouldn't be. GPs offer a service, paid for by taxes.

These days, it would be more accurate to describe them as businesses
that contract their services to the NHS. In that, they are, essentially,
no different from a manufacturer supplying the NHS with, say, bandages
or bedding or medicines. Just like the manufacturers, they have entered
into a framework agreement with the NHS that defines what they must
achieve to be paid.

The
business model is in this context an artifical construct, and whilst it may
have some practical uses in the real world of running a surgery, it should
not become some sort of dogma. Bit like bean counting...

GP practices are not there to provide emergency treatment. That is the
function of A&E departments, so why should it matter if it takes a few
days to get an appointment?

I am sure a typical GP has plenty to do in the odd gap between patients such
as writing referral letters, catching up on the Lancet[1] and so on.

Unless mine work remarkably short hours, they set aside a specific time
for that after the afternoon surgery closes. They also have a fairly
predictable number of no-show appointments each day that will give them
extra time.

Colin Bignell

On 06/02/2012 12:55, Nightjar wrote:
On 06/02/2012 10:57, Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:


Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.

That does not sound a particularly good business model, although it may
well be popular with patients. GP surgeries are businesses and that sort
of availability suggests they are not fully utilising all their resources.

Some of this behaviour seems to be driven by the performance targets
they are set. If the rules say that no one ought to have to wait longer
than 48 hours for a GP appointment, you can make sure you always meet
the target by only taking appointments for the next 48 hours!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 06/02/2012 16:31, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/02/2012 12:55, Nightjar wrote:
On 06/02/2012 10:57, Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:


Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that their
patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it is like
in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of advance warning
of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.

That does not sound a particularly good business model, although it may
well be popular with patients. GP surgeries are businesses and that sort
of availability suggests they are not fully utilising all their
resources.

Some of this behaviour seems to be driven by the performance targets
they are set. If the rules say that no one ought to have to wait longer
than 48 hours for a GP appointment, you can make sure you always meet
the target by only taking appointments for the next 48 hours!


If there is such a target and there are performance related payments,
then perhaps it is not such a bad business model as it first appears, at
least not from the POV of the GP.

Colin Bignell

In article , John Rumm
wrote:
On 06/02/2012 12:55, Nightjar wrote:
On 06/02/2012 10:57, Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:


Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that
their patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it
is like in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of
advance warning of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.

That does not sound a particularly good business model, although it may
well be popular with patients. GP surgeries are businesses and that
sort of availability suggests they are not fully utilising all their
resources.

Some of this behaviour seems to be driven by the performance targets
they are set. If the rules say that no one ought to have to wait longer
than 48 hours for a GP appointment, you can make sure you always meet
the target by only taking appointments for the next 48 hours!

so when the good doctor says "come back in a month" and you go to reception
you can't book.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

Nightjar wrote:

On 06/02/2012 14:08, Tim Watts wrote:
Nightjar wrote:


The
business model is in this context an artifical construct, and whilst it
may have some practical uses in the real world of running a surgery, it
should not become some sort of dogma. Bit like bean counting...

GP practices are not there to provide emergency treatment. That is the
function of A&E departments, so why should it matter if it takes a few
days to get an appointment?

I do not want to clog up A&E with my kid running a high fever for 3-4 days +
persistent stomach pains. I want to nip down to the doctors and have a few
basics like potential appendicitis and a few other nasties ruled out. It
would be a waste of resources to go to A&E with those sort of problems which
a GP can check out in less than 5 minutes - but I do not want to wait more
than a day either.


I am sure a typical GP has plenty to do in the odd gap between patients
such as writing referral letters, catching up on the Lancet[1] and so on.

Unless mine work remarkably short hours, they set aside a specific time
for that after the afternoon surgery closes. They also have a fairly
predictable number of no-show appointments each day that will give them
extra time.

True there is that - but I'm sure the government paperwork and "business"
aspects of their job provide a nearly limitless amount of time filling
potential - bit like being a teacher...
--
Tim Watts

Tim Streater wrote:


'Profit' needn't necessarily mean 'into someone's pocket'. The idea of
profit is to optimise the use of society's resources. Suppose you have
two identical clinics offering identical services with identical
budgets. One makes a 'loss' and the other makes a 'profit'. Now, which
set of managers from one clinic or the other should be retrained or
ultimately fired, would you say?


It depends on wheather the exercise of measring the system in order to
optimise it vastly outweighs the potential gains of the optimisations.

It's teh same with everything - teachers have to complete endless paperwork
and lesson plans so that the crap schools can be shown to meet a minimum
standard, when the good schools would surpass the standard without the
monitoring and the monitoring impededs their real work.

I hold to the idea that a school that gets more than a certain Ofsted rating
should have a relaxed monitoring regime imposed so they waste less time
faffing. I wonder if the same idea could be applied to surgeries run by
people who are efficient naturally.



--
Tim Watts

Nightjar wrote:
On 06/02/2012 04:45, Rupert Bear. wrote:
Ever been sent home,,, to the docs,,, from site smelling of Putty
and work.... take care cos the Gps in Southern Scotland reckon you
are ****e,, iffen you dare come in their exam room smelling of work...

Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that
their patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it
is like in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of
advance warning of when you will see your GP.

The best thing I ever heard at a GPs was when I was changing a lightfitting
near the repeat prescription desk.

A lad walked to up to the desk and the woman behind said "Name please?" He
replied "John Sxxxxx" and she tried to find the prescription. Unable to find
a prescription under that name she asked which doctor he used. He answered
and she replied "we do not have a doctor with that name".

He then announced "the prescription is not for me, it is for my
girlfriend"..

--
Adam

On 06/02/2012 18:56, Tim Watts wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

On 06/02/2012 14:08, Tim Watts wrote:
Nightjar wrote:


The
business model is in this context an artifical construct, and whilst it
may have some practical uses in the real world of running a surgery, it
should not become some sort of dogma. Bit like bean counting...

GP practices are not there to provide emergency treatment. That is the
function of A&E departments, so why should it matter if it takes a few
days to get an appointment?

I do not want to clog up A&E with my kid running a high fever for 3-4 days +
persistent stomach pains.I want to nip down to the doctors and have a few
basics like potential appendicitis and a few other nasties ruled out. It
would be a waste of resources to go to A&E with those sort of problems which
a GP can check out in less than 5 minutes - but I do not want to wait more
than a day either....

If it is an emergency, the hospital is the right place to go and it will
be able to carry out a lot more checks than any GP. However, if you
really are convinced that you need to see a GP the same day, my GP's
surgery will arrange that, although you may need to wait around until
one is free to see you. The reality is, though, that the vast majority
of appointments are follow-ups or routine check-ups, which could easily
be arranged weeks in advance.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:56:26 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

I do not want to clog up A&E with my kid running a high fever for 3-4
days + persistent stomach pains. I want to nip down to the doctors and
have a few basics like potential appendicitis and a few other nasties
ruled out.

Delaying for even 24hrs if appendicitis is half suspected could rule
the kid out of the rest of their life. I'd try the GP but if that
wasn't succesful for the same day (and around here it probably would
be) I'd be off to A&E. Appendicitis definately falls under the E part
of A&E.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Nightjar wrote:

On 06/02/2012 18:56, Tim Watts wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

On 06/02/2012 14:08, Tim Watts wrote:
Nightjar wrote:


The
business model is in this context an artifical construct, and whilst it
may have some practical uses in the real world of running a surgery, it
should not become some sort of dogma. Bit like bean counting...

GP practices are not there to provide emergency treatment. That is the
function of A&E departments, so why should it matter if it takes a few
days to get an appointment?

I do not want to clog up A&E with my kid running a high fever for 3-4
days + persistent stomach pains.I want to nip down to the doctors and
have a few basics like potential appendicitis and a few other nasties
ruled out. It would be a waste of resources to go to A&E with those sort
of problems which a GP can check out in less than 5 minutes - but I do
not want to wait more than a day either....

If it is an emergency, the hospital is the right place to go and it will
be able to carry out a lot more checks than any GP. However, if you
really are convinced that you need to see a GP the same day, my GP's
surgery will arrange that, although you may need to wait around until
one is free to see you. The reality is, though, that the vast majority
of appointments are follow-ups or routine check-ups, which could easily
be arranged weeks in advance.

Colin Bignell

I agree there are a great many things that can be confortably arranged a few
days-weeks ahead. In my last village, you could not book more than 24h in
advance which was stupid. To get an appointment meant get in the queue 30
minutes before the surgery opened along with everyone else.

Our current village is far more sensible - you can usually get an
appointment the same day if you phone within 15-30 mins of opening time and
you *can* book routine stuff as far ahead as you like.

I find GP appointments do tend to fall into "urgent" more with kids. Not
being a panicky sort, I will not take them for a cold or mild flu - only if
I think there is a possibility something else might just be wrong, eg the
stomach pains problem. Much better to be wrong most of the time than to end
up with a burst appendix or periotinitis becoming a life and death
situation.

Having kids who go anaphalactic with certain foods, I have had a fair amount
of experience with A&E (including one real justified 999 job and one other
illegally fast drive to the nearby A&E), and I've seen a few conditions that
were urgent enough for the GP to sit on the phone and arrange an immediate
admission to paediatrics which did not at first sight to me appear to be A&E
material.

So I am certainly convinced that GPs do fill a very important role with
"possibly urgent" problems where 5 minutes with them could save an hour or
more of staff time down A&E - because once you take a kid to A&E they tend
not to wnat to release them until everything has been checked, tested and
observed.
--
Tim Watts

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:56:26 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

I do not want to clog up A&E with my kid running a high fever for 3-4
days + persistent stomach pains. I want to nip down to the doctors and
have a few basics like potential appendicitis and a few other nasties
ruled out.

Delaying for even 24hrs if appendicitis is half suspected could rule
the kid out of the rest of their life. I'd try the GP but if that
wasn't succesful for the same day (and around here it probably would
be) I'd be off to A&E. Appendicitis definately falls under the E part
of A&E.


Indeed. If I had not got to see the GP, I would have been seriously tempted
to go over to the hospital, but it would waste a lot of expensive folks time
- which was kind of my point.
--
Tim Watts

Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:


'Profit' needn't necessarily mean 'into someone's pocket'. The idea of
profit is to optimise the use of society's resources. Suppose you have
two identical clinics offering identical services with identical
budgets. One makes a 'loss' and the other makes a 'profit'. Now, which
set of managers from one clinic or the other should be retrained or
ultimately fired, would you say?


It depends on wheather the exercise of measring the system in order to
optimise it vastly outweighs the potential gains of the optimisations.

This is something that companies seem to manage reasonably well.


And which the state seem to be uniformly appalling at - probably because a
small/medium company will understand the impact. A massive corportation or a
state entity invariably allows the "measurments" to take over and achieve a
life of their own.

My pet peeve is beancounters - their job is to add up the numbers and inform
the boss how things are and how things will be given a scenario.

Way too many times, the bean counting seems to end up controlling the
company rather than serving - cf the classic "spend 100k in 2 weeks because
we can't carry it over financial year end" - a classic case of an artifical
construct causing rediculous and wasteful consequences.
--
Tim Watts

I find GP appointments do tend to fall into "urgent" more with kids. Not
being a panicky sort, I will not take them for a cold or mild flu - only if
I think there is a possibility something else might just be wrong, eg the
stomach pains problem. Much better to be wrong most of the time than to end
up with a burst appendix or periotinitis becoming a life and death
situation.

Having kids who go anaphalactic with certain foods, I have had a fair amount
of experience with A&E (including one real justified 999 job and one other
illegally fast drive to the nearby A&E), and I've seen a few conditions that
were urgent enough for the GP to sit on the phone and arrange an immediate
admission to paediatrics which did not at first sight to me appear to be A&E
material.


Bin there dun that. 7 Y/O had a very wheezy chesty cough some years ago
now, thought it was just a cold so thought we'll see how it goes..

Following day I thought perhaps I'd better take her to the docs.. Got
there an old lady said that girl isn't anywhere near right shes having
an asthma attack. One of the GP's came past and said get her in here now
and we'll get Oxygen on her and call for an emergency ambulance!..

Seems rather surreal at the time she was admitted and spent a few days
in intensive care where they sorted that.

Seems the damage is that young children can simply run out of energy to
breathe when its laboured. Adults cope better as they are that much
stronger so we were told, anyway no probs since that time seems to have
grew out of it!..

Other one presented with All the symptoms of meningitis just after
school had finished apart from the visible rash which is a rather
advanced stage so it seems. Rushed her to hospital and went right to the
front of the queue, everyone very understanding;, was taken into a side
room and we were told to wait while they got a consultant there .. she
seems to suddenly get "better" 20 mins later was fine and wanted to go
home which we did feeling slightly embarrassed but was assured that we
had done the right thing..

But anyone can make that mistake. A very good GP at our practice was
caught out one night, was called to a young child and put it all down
the renements of a cold he'd just had. They, his parents who were
foreign and perhaps didn't understand how the English system worked
called later and he said that they should just give him Paracetamol and
keep him warm and he'd call by the following day but something more
serious was amiss and the result was that the child died a few days
later in hospital after being eventually admitted, can't remember what
it was.

Was told by My GP that if they sent everyone's child up to the hospital
who called the after hours service they,the hospitals would be
overwhelmed..

Sometimes a very very difficult call to make;!....


So I am certainly convinced that GPs do fill a very important role with
"possibly urgent" problems where 5 minutes with them could save an hour or
more of staff time down A&E - because once you take a kid to A&E they tend
not to wnat to release them until everything has been checked, tested and
observed.

Indeed. But -sometimes- its the right call.
--
Tony Sayer

In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article , John Rumm
wrote:
On 06/02/2012 12:55, Nightjar wrote:
On 06/02/2012 10:57, Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/02/2012 09:52, Nightjar wrote:


Certainly the most common thing on a GP's wish list would be that
their patients bathed before coming to see them. I don't know what it
is like in Scotland, but, around here, you will have plenty of
advance warning of when you will see your GP.

Colin Bignell

Not so here - just outside Warwick. I've just looked at my doctor's
on-line booking system and it offered my an appointment within half an
hour with the junior doctor, or lots of choice tomorrow with my usual
doctor.

That does not sound a particularly good business model, although it may
well be popular with patients. GP surgeries are businesses and that
sort of availability suggests they are not fully utilising all their
resources.

Some of this behaviour seems to be driven by the performance targets
they are set. If the rules say that no one ought to have to wait longer
than 48 hours for a GP appointment, you can make sure you always meet
the target by only taking appointments for the next 48 hours!

so when the good doctor says "come back in a month" and you go to reception
you can't book.


I had a bit of that appointment malarkey a while ago with an otherwise
good practice I just told them I'm either coming down there to wait till
someone sees me or else I'm of up the hospital..

Mysteriously an appointment -was- found...
--
Tony Sayer

On 06/02/2012 20:27, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:56:26 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

I do not want to clog up A&E with my kid running a high fever for 3-4
days + persistent stomach pains. I want to nip down to the doctors and
have a few basics like potential appendicitis and a few other nasties
ruled out.

Delaying for even 24hrs if appendicitis is half suspected could rule
the kid out of the rest of their life. I'd try the GP but if that
wasn't succesful for the same day (and around here it probably would
be) I'd be off to A&E. Appendicitis definately falls under the E part
of A&E.

The most worrying aspect is when the practices allow the staff in charge
of the booking system start to pre-filter the patients they will allow
to have access to the clinical staff. I saw that happen at our previous
GP practice once. A friend phoned them due to her concern over her
toddler showing symptoms including high temperature, rash, and various
other indications that would have been consistent with meningitis. The
lady on the phone refused to even put her through to a nurse to discuss
it!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:32:07 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have never in my life seen such and extraordinarily disorganised
management structure..

It's light years ahead of what we have here, which is also inefficient,
unreliable, and management-heavy - but also a lot more expensive.

cheers

Jules

On 06/02/2012 21:17, Tim Watts wrote:
....
So I am certainly convinced that GPs do fill a very important role with
"possibly urgent" problems where 5 minutes with them could save an hour or
more of staff time down A&E - because once you take a kid to A&E they tend
not to wnat to release them until everything has been checked, tested and
observed.

That is rather my point in suggesting taking them to A&E. A&E can and
will do a lot of tests that the GP is not equipped for, which minimises
the risk of something being missed. It also avoids unnecessary delay if
it really is something life threatening.

Colin Bignell

On 06/02/2012 23:51, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:32:07 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have never in my life seen such and extraordinarily disorganised
management structure..

It's light years ahead of what we have here, which is also inefficient,
unreliable, and management-heavy - but also a lot more expensive.

Yup, there is always the assumption many make that if you criticise
something about the way the NHS is run, you must be championing the US
style of system as the only viable alternative.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/02/2012 16:45, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/02/2012 23:51, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:32:07 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have never in my life seen such and extraordinarily disorganised
management structure..

It's light years ahead of what we have here, which is also inefficient,
unreliable, and management-heavy - but also a lot more expensive.

Yup, there is always the assumption many make that if you criticise
something about the way the NHS is run, you must be championing the US
style of system as the only viable alternative.

Trouble is that's what people trying to change it are trying to copy.

On 07/02/2012 16:58, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

On 06/02/2012 23:51, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:32:07 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have never in my life seen such and extraordinarily disorganised
management structure..

It's light years ahead of what we have here, which is also inefficient,
unreliable, and management-heavy - but also a lot more expensive.

Yup, there is always the assumption many make that if you criticise
something about the way the NHS is run, you must be championing the US
style of system as the only viable alternative.

Criticise the way the NHS is run? You can't do that! That's a *personal*
insult to all our brave and dedicated boys and girls at the front.

At least, that's the way socialists like to portray it. It's their
technique for closing down debate on the issue.

Yup - exactly the same as saying "but in the USA etc..." or shouting
"racist" at anyone attempting to discuss immigration etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/02/2012 17:11, Clive George wrote:
On 07/02/2012 16:45, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/02/2012 23:51, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:32:07 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have never in my life seen such and extraordinarily disorganised
management structure..

It's light years ahead of what we have here, which is also inefficient,
unreliable, and management-heavy - but also a lot more expensive.

Yup, there is always the assumption many make that if you criticise
something about the way the NHS is run, you must be championing the US
style of system as the only viable alternative.

Trouble is that's what people trying to change it are trying to copy.

I rest my case...

;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Feb 6, 4:53*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Rupert Bear. wrote:
Ever been sent home,,, to the docs,,, from site smelling of Putty and work....
take care cos the Gps in Southern Scotland reckon you are ****e,,
iffen you dare come in their exam room smelling of work...

yo is just meat for the trainees operating table....

I was sent home with a hernia,,,

And they fixed me for urology training
when I was anaesthetised and unconscious
lying there with mplicit trust,, expecting a hernia repair...

see here...

http://s867.photobucket.com/albums/a...10/Miasma%20of...

They don't reckon people what do manual *work on site
are competent to know when they is getting ****ed over..

GP's and consultants walk around their manor like minor gods
and they are cos the lawyers and papers will not lift a finger help you....

..................................................

I think you need to see a doctor.

You is way to late for that advice chummy,,,

Time you started thinkin of the real world and a medical service
with its nose put out cos of complaints against it....
They get jaded and nasty..

My family were close palls with the very same medical practice
that referred me to hospital.....
I was referred directly into the training system,,,

GP's are able to indulge their predudice
like no other....

Ever heard of that word,,,

Prejudice...

Facts,, is another thing...

fact is that i found the urologists handwriting
signing in another mans name...
Where his presence was denied..

Imagination is another word,,,

Thought some folks here might understand....


MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..

Gotcha..!

............



......................................

On Feb 6, 8:59*am, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
Being employed by Basil Fawlty?

Damn! Beat me to it ...

I doubt if basil paid this kind of lolly
sunshine....

To be honest,, it was unussually good for me,,

http://s867.photobucket.com/albums/a...asilsBrush.jpg

I had a decent job and was sent home off site,,,
they use putty sealing pipes..

And very heavy reaming machines
doing the heavy cast pipes..

the heavy work brought on my hernia as
I laboured up there in that nightmare
of the Lockerbie creamery contract..


True story boys,,, manual workers reffered to
the medical trainees ...

Cos the the docs think you are lowly
dog****e...

...............................

On Feb 10, 6:15*am, Rupert Bear wrote:
On Feb 6, 8:59*am, Andy Burns wrote:

Chris Hogg wrote:
Being employed by Basil Fawlty?

Damn! Beat me to it ...

I doubt if basil paid this kind of lolly
sunshine....

To be honest,, it was unussually good for me,,

http://s867.photobucket.com/albums/a...10/Miasma%20of...

I had a decent job and was sent home off site,,,
they use putty sealing pipes..

And very heavy reaming machines
doing the heavy cast pipes..

the heavy work brought on my hernia as
I laboured up there in that nightmare
of the Lockerbie creamery contract..

True story boys,,, manual workers reffered to
the medical trainees ...

Cos the the docs think you are lowly
dog****e...

..............................

Iffen you cannot figure this out you fulfil there beliefs..
Manual workers are dumb ****s they can do anything they want to..

Din happen to me cos i had money,,,
Can tell you that much...

Naw,,, sumpthin else going on here...

Social mechanisms...

Hospital finance coming in from training could be involved..


.................................................. ..........

...................................