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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
Hi all,
My Numatic George vacuum cleaner comes as standard with a 32mm hose for dry use which is 1.9m in length, I was on the look out for a new hose and gave Numatic a call asking what different lengths can be obtained. The chap told me it is possible to also use a 38mm hose on the vacuum, however when asked what the advantage would be, he couldn't really answer. Is there any advantage at all of having a 38mm hose, apart from the obvious that larger objects wont block the hose as easily as they would with a 32mm hose... -- David |
#2
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:56:21 +0000, gremlin_95
wrote: Hi all, My Numatic George vacuum cleaner comes as standard with a 32mm hose for dry use which is 1.9m in length, I was on the look out for a new hose and gave Numatic a call asking what different lengths can be obtained. The chap told me it is possible to also use a 38mm hose on the vacuum, however when asked what the advantage would be, he couldn't really answer. Is there any advantage at all of having a 38mm hose, apart from the obvious that larger objects wont block the hose as easily as they would with a 32mm hose... Pick up the stuff that is big enough to block the hose! You'll just get bigger furballs evolving up there! -- http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk |
#3
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On 20/01/2012 16:56, gremlin_95 wrote:
Hi all, My Numatic George vacuum cleaner comes as standard with a 32mm hose for dry use which is 1.9m in length, I was on the look out for a new hose and gave Numatic a call asking what different lengths can be obtained. The chap told me it is possible to also use a 38mm hose on the vacuum, however when asked what the advantage would be, he couldn't really answer. Is there any advantage at all of having a 38mm hose, apart from the obvious that larger objects wont block the hose as easily as they would with a 32mm hose... My logic, which is often faulty, tells me that the vacuum at the hose end would be lower, so would not suck up as well. -- Residing on low ground in North Staffordshire |
#4
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On Jan 20, 4:56*pm, gremlin_95 wrote:
Hi all, My Numatic George vacuum cleaner comes as standard with a 32mm hose for dry use which is 1.9m in length, I was on the look out for a new hose and gave Numatic a call asking what different lengths can be obtained. The chap told me it is possible to also use a 38mm hose on the vacuum, however when asked what the advantage would be, he couldn't really answer.. Is there any advantage at all of having a 38mm hose, apart from the obvious that larger objects wont block the hose as easily as they would with a 32mm hose... -- David Ha Ha! Exactly my recent experience. I'm finding that my new Nilfisk was supplied by a very narrow, concertina, hose which blocked at every opportunity. It now has a full-bore tube and has yet to block. Also, the motor sounds much less frantic with the bigger tube. Richard |
#5
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On 20/01/2012 17:54, RJS wrote:
On Jan 20, 4:56 pm, wrote: Hi all, My Numatic George vacuum cleaner comes as standard with a 32mm hose for dry use which is 1.9m in length, I was on the look out for a new hose and gave Numatic a call asking what different lengths can be obtained. The chap told me it is possible to also use a 38mm hose on the vacuum, however when asked what the advantage would be, he couldn't really answer. Is there any advantage at all of having a 38mm hose, apart from the obvious that larger objects wont block the hose as easily as they would with a 32mm hose... -- David Ha Ha! Exactly my recent experience. I'm finding that my new Nilfisk was supplied by a very narrow, concertina, hose which blocked at every opportunity. It now has a full-bore tube and has yet to block. Also, the motor sounds much less frantic with the bigger tube. Richard Did it make much difference to the suction? -- David |
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On 20/01/2012 17:03, Moonraker wrote:
On 20/01/2012 16:56, gremlin_95 wrote: Hi all, My Numatic George vacuum cleaner comes as standard with a 32mm hose for dry use which is 1.9m in length, I was on the look out for a new hose and gave Numatic a call asking what different lengths can be obtained. The chap told me it is possible to also use a 38mm hose on the vacuum, however when asked what the advantage would be, he couldn't really answer. Is there any advantage at all of having a 38mm hose, apart from the obvious that larger objects wont block the hose as easily as they would with a 32mm hose... My logic, which is often faulty, tells me that the vacuum at the hose end would be lower, so would not suck up as well. Your logic isn't far wrong. A bigger hose will mean lower 'suction' (not vacuum) but higher airflow. Its a trade off. The suction alone isn't any good without enough airflow to move the debris along the hose. It depends on what you are picking up. Small relatively heavy objects are best picked up by machines with high suction, lighter bigger objects you are better off with higher airflow. With twin motor vacuums, where the motors are in parallel the suction remains the same, but the airflow doubles. Commercial carpet cleaning machines often use twin vac motors to remove water from carpets, but they are used in series. The suction increases by about 25% and the airflow by about 50%. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#7
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On Jan 20, 6:13*pm, gremlin_95 wrote:
On 20/01/2012 17:54, RJS wrote: On Jan 20, 4:56 pm, *wrote: Hi all, My Numatic George vacuum cleaner comes as standard with a 32mm hose for dry use which is 1.9m in length, I was on the look out for a new hose and gave Numatic a call asking what different lengths can be obtained. The chap told me it is possible to also use a 38mm hose on the vacuum, however when asked what the advantage would be, he couldn't really answer. Is there any advantage at all of having a 38mm hose, apart from the obvious that larger objects wont block the hose as easily as they would with a 32mm hose... -- David Ha Ha! Exactly my recent experience. I'm finding that my new Nilfisk was supplied by a very narrow, concertina, hose which blocked at every opportunity. *It now has a full-bore tube and has yet to block. *Also, the motor sounds much less frantic with the bigger tube. Richard Did it make much difference to the suction? -- David- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - A bigger hose reduces resistance and hence increases air flow. This puts more load on the motor and it runs slower but probably not enough to matter. However, if there is no air flow (hose blocked off), the vacuum will be exactly the same as before. (And the motor will run at it's maximum speed consuming least electricity). |
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On 20/01/2012 18:59, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 20/01/2012 17:03, Moonraker wrote: On 20/01/2012 16:56, gremlin_95 wrote: Hi all, My Numatic George vacuum cleaner comes as standard with a 32mm hose for dry use which is 1.9m in length, I was on the look out for a new hose and gave Numatic a call asking what different lengths can be obtained. The chap told me it is possible to also use a 38mm hose on the vacuum, however when asked what the advantage would be, he couldn't really answer. Is there any advantage at all of having a 38mm hose, apart from the obvious that larger objects wont block the hose as easily as they would with a 32mm hose... My logic, which is often faulty, tells me that the vacuum at the hose end would be lower, so would not suck up as well. Your logic isn't far wrong. A bigger hose will mean lower 'suction' (not vacuum) but higher airflow. Its a trade off. The suction alone isn't any good without enough airflow to move the debris along the hose. It depends on what you are picking up. Small relatively heavy objects are best picked up by machines with high suction, lighter bigger objects you are better off with higher airflow. With twin motor vacuums, where the motors are in parallel the suction remains the same, but the airflow doubles. Commercial carpet cleaning machines often use twin vac motors to remove water from carpets, but they are used in series. The suction increases by about 25% and the airflow by about 50%. Thanks for that explanation. It's mostly used for vacuuming cars. Think I will stick with the current 32mm hose. The larger Numatic vacuum with twin motors seem to have 38mm hoses and 80l/sec airflow as opposed to George with 40l/sec. -- David |
#9
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:00:05 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote: However, if there is no air flow (hose blocked off), the vacuum will be exactly the same as before. (And the motor will run at it's maximum speed consuming least electricity). And then overheat. |
#10
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On Jan 21, 12:12*am, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:00:05 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: However, if there is no air flow (hose blocked off), the vacuum will be exactly the same as before. (And the motor will run at it's maximum speed consuming least electricity). And then overheat. Depends on how the motor ventilation is arranged but it would take a while. |
#11
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On 21/01/2012 09:05, harry wrote:
On Jan 21, 12:12 am, wrote: On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:00:05 -0800 (PST), wrote: However, if there is no air flow (hose blocked off), the vacuum will be exactly the same as before. (And the motor will run at it's maximum speed consuming least electricity). And then overheat. Depends on how the motor ventilation is arranged but it would take a while. Direct cooled motors use the air they are sucking to cool the windings, by-pass motors have separate cooling fans. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#12
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On Jan 20, 6:13*pm, gremlin_95 wrote:
On 20/01/2012 17:54, RJS wrote: On Jan 20, 4:56 pm, *wrote: Hi all, My Numatic George vacuum cleaner comes as standard with a 32mm hose for dry use which is 1.9m in length, I was on the look out for a new hose and gave Numatic a call asking what different lengths can be obtained. The chap told me it is possible to also use a 38mm hose on the vacuum, however when asked what the advantage would be, he couldn't really answer. Is there any advantage at all of having a 38mm hose, apart from the obvious that larger objects wont block the hose as easily as they would with a 32mm hose... -- David Ha Ha! Exactly my recent experience. I'm finding that my new Nilfisk was supplied by a very narrow, concertina, hose which blocked at every opportunity. *It now has a full-bore tube and has yet to block. *Also, the motor sounds much less frantic with the bigger tube. Richard Did it make much difference to the suction? -- David No, in fact I think that the suction actually improved because the motor was not struggling to pull the air through a narrow hose. My, very old, AquaVac has a hose which is the same size as the prelacement hose for the Nilfisk and it will pick up 1/4 bricks! It's interesting to note that the narrow hose issued with the Nilfisk has an adaptor to make if fit the big-bore hole on the collection tank. I've asked Nilfisk why the supply the narrow hose. Richard |
#13
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On Jan 20, 7:00*pm, harry wrote:
A bigger hose reduces resistance and hence increases air flow. This puts more load on the motor and it runs slower but probably not enough to matter. So, am I missinterpreting the quieter motor noise caused by the larger hose allowing greater air flow when I concluded that the motor sounded as though it was under a lower load? Sorry if that's really convoluted! Richard |
#14
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
Is there any advantage at all of having a 38mm hose, apart from the obvious that larger objects wont block the hose as easily as they would with a 32mm hose... Depends on the diameter of yer cock, some people find the standard 32mm hose chafes a fair bit during a vacuum assisted milking session.... so i've been told. I'm remembering the subject on here last year about the hoover nozzle that sliced the power cord in half, and all the suggestions that went with it, few days later i was in john lewis, and picked up the dysoon handheld vac on display, battery was full, so turned it on and blocked the end with my palm, the motor then started pulsing on and off, my GF burst out laughing, and said 'typical, i can buy a vibro for under a tenner, yet the male equivalent is over a hundered quid!' |
#15
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On Jan 21, 12:04*pm, RJS wrote:
On Jan 20, 7:00*pm, harry wrote: A bigger hose reduces resistance and hence increases air flow. This puts more load on the motor and it runs slower but probably not enough to matter. So, am I missinterpreting the quieter motor noise caused by the larger hose allowing greater air flow when I concluded that the motor sounded as though it was under a lower load? *Sorry if that's really convoluted! Richard If you think about it, the fan absorbs power by accelarating air from zero to some speed. If you cut off the air flow, the motor is just churning round the same air and doing no work except for motor losses and air friction losses inside the fan housing. A commutator motor will speed up and use less current. An induction motor will speed uponly slightly and use less current. I seem to remember the power/speed relationship with fans is a cube law. ie it takes eight times the power to drive a fan twice as fast. And a square law speed to pressure ie four times the power double the pressure/suction. So it makes a big difference. If you block the blow side of the air flow the fan will thrash round in high pressure air. If you block the suck side,it will thrash around in near vaccuum. So in the latter case, it will use the least power. From the current readings, things about the fan performance/efficiency can be deduced. I forget the details, it was years ago we done these things at tech. |
#16
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Advantage of larger diameter on vacuum cleaner hose?
On 22/01/2012 09:21, harry wrote:
On Jan 21, 12:04 pm, wrote: On Jan 20, 7:00 pm, wrote: A bigger hose reduces resistance and hence increases air flow. This puts more load on the motor and it runs slower but probably not enough to matter. So, am I missinterpreting the quieter motor noise caused by the larger hose allowing greater air flow when I concluded that the motor sounded as though it was under a lower load? Sorry if that's really convoluted! Richard If you think about it, the fan absorbs power by accelarating air from zero to some speed. If you cut off the air flow, the motor is just churning round the same air and doing no work except for motor losses and air friction losses inside the fan housing. A commutator motor will speed up and use less current. This is true. If you put an amp meter on a vacuum cleaner & block the suction the amps drop. BTDTGTTS. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
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