Last time I used something like this was re-surfacing our shop floor 12
yrs ago. Stuff used was "greenbag & 55" it certainly wasn't "self
levelling" however now I need to level off the concrete base of our
bathroom having removed the top 5" layer of old cement screed.
Plan is to shoe-horn 50mm cellotex on top(as no insulation from 70's),
then thin-screed on UFH but the current concrete pad is so not level I
need a free-flowing self levelling compound.
Any e-pinions greatly appreciated (Thickness will range from nothing to
close to 2" or more at worst point)

TIA
Pete

--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk - Fitness+Gym Equipment.

www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

Any e-pinions greatly appreciated (Thickness will range from nothing to
close to 2" or more at worst point)

I used Wickes self levelling gloop ("with latex"!) a few years ago and
it worked nicely. Not to 2" depth (vaguely recall a limit) but I'm sure
layers could be built up. Went off nice and quickly and gave a very
smooth finish.

Scott

www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

Last time I used something like this was re-surfacing our shop floor 12
yrs ago. Stuff used was "greenbag & 55" it certainly wasn't "self
levelling" however now I need to level off the concrete base of our
bathroom having removed the top 5" layer of old cement screed.
Plan is to shoe-horn 50mm cellotex on top(as no insulation from 70's),
then thin-screed on UFH but the current concrete pad is so not level I
need a free-flowing self levelling compound.
Any e-pinions greatly appreciated (Thickness will range from nothing to
close to 2" or more at worst point)

TIA
Pete


Hi,

OK - options:

1) SBR modified screed - that will go from as thick as you want (50mm is
fine) to 10mm min *on a solid substrate*.

2) F Ball Stopgap 300 HD is good from 1mm to about 15mm orabout 25-30mm with
granite chippings as a filler. You can put multiple layers down though - but
you will beed to reprime with the green neoprene between each layer.

Google "F Ball" - their website has lots of application PDFs and videos.


However, neither is suitable for applying on top of the celotext - option 1
would need 50mm absolute min, preferably 75mm and should have some
reinforcement, either metal mesh or fibres.

I assume your 50mm-0 is for underneath the celotex, onto the concrete?

Stopgap 300 will do it, but it will get expensive if you use it in say 3
layers to 50mm thick. But you could. You'd measure up the floor and chalk
out the very low bits, prime and pour 15mm of Stopgap. Give it a day,
repeat, until you only have 15mm at worst to fill, then finish with a single
pour. A spiked roller to work it will assist it becoming level by itself.
Follow F Balls instructions to the letter and you will probably be
pleasantly surprised.

OTOH, you could do what I did and patch the very lowest parts with SBR
screed onto a SBR/cement primer brushed on, after priming the entire floor
with SBR. That will bond extremely well (the SBR is seriously magic sh*t)
and you could metal-float it over until it is "about" right, ie 10mm low.
You do not want high points as it is so damn tough when it goes off that it
is a complete bitch to chisel back.

I've got some SBR data sheets that detail the regime to follow - mail me if
you want a copy (address above valid).

Cheers

--
Tim Watts

On 14/12/2011 18:32, Scott M wrote:
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

Any e-pinions greatly appreciated (Thickness will range from nothing to
close to 2" or more at worst point)

I used Wickes self levelling gloop ("with latex"!) a few years ago and
it worked nicely. Not to 2" depth (vaguely recall a limit) but I'm sure
layers could be built up. Went off nice and quickly and gave a very
smooth finish.

Thanks Scott.
I did consider the Wicks stuff but will have to see what max thickness
it would do as I don't really want to be doing a lot of thin layers.

Cheers
PEte
--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk
Bodybuilding Supplements and Nutrition

On 14/12/2011 21:25, Tim Watts wrote:

OK - options:

1) SBR modified screed - that will go from as thick as you want (50mm is
fine) to 10mm min *on a solid substrate*.

The substrate is the original poured concrete foundations/pad around 4"
thick measured where the soil pipe emerges. Extremely hard but like the
surface of the moon! I think 50mm was an exageration on my part. I would
think more like 25mm average but the surface is a mass of "pools" and
"peaks" so it would be more like a dot-2-dot rather than an even
thickness all over.

2) F Ball Stopgap 300 HD is good from 1mm to about 15mm orabout 25-30mm with
granite chippings as a filler. You can put multiple layers down though - but
you will beed to reprime with the green neoprene between each layer.

Ah yes, F Ball "green bag" is what I used previously, I'd be happy
working with their stuff again.

However, neither is suitable for applying on top of the celotext - option 1
would need 50mm absolute min, preferably 75mm and should have some
reinforcement, either metal mesh or fibres.

too thick as I have a max. of depth 4" from the hall level to the
bathroom substrate. Could cut back on insulation thickness a bit.

I assume your 50mm-0 is for underneath the celotex, onto the concrete?

Yes, but I think 25mm is closer, plus I can take off the worst of the
high spots to ease things.

Stopgap 300 will do it, but it will get expensive if you use it in say 3
layers to 50mm thick. But you could. You'd measure up the floor and chalk
out the very low bits, prime and pour 15mm of Stopgap. Give it a day,
repeat, until you only have 15mm at worst to fill, then finish with a single
pour. A spiked roller to work it will assist it becoming level by itself.
Follow F Balls instructions to the letter and you will probably be
pleasantly surprised.

Ah ha... a spiked roller... I just trowelled it previously.
:¬)

OTOH, you could do what I did and patch the very lowest parts with SBR
screed onto a SBR/cement primer brushed on, after priming the entire floor
with SBR. That will bond extremely well (the SBR is seriously magic sh*t)
and you could metal-float it over until it is "about" right, ie 10mm low.
You do not want high points as it is so damn tough when it goes off that it
is a complete bitch to chisel back.

Just found your 2009 thread detailing your previous experiences Tim.

The Bathroom is 9' x 8' so not massive. Also need to look at soil pipe
first as currently it's one of those thin flexible couplings emerging
from the concrete which really isn't right in my mind.


I've got some SBR data sheets that detail the regime to follow - mail me if
you want a copy (address above valid).

Mailed.
Thanks again.
Pete
--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk
Commercial Gym Equipment since 1999

www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

On 14/12/2011 21:25, Tim Watts wrote:


Yes, but I think 25mm is closer, plus I can take off the worst of the
high spots to ease things.

I'd do it all in Stopgap, in 2 pours if it were me. 1st pour to take
eveything to -10mm below nominal desired finish height.

2nd pour (after priming with green stuff again) will level quite nicely.
Anywhere where your are down to about -3mm or less from final height may not
self level quite so well - be prepared to wipe a trowel over these parts. I
found 5mm thick pour would behave very well (mill pond like) but half that
and it needed help.

Stopgap 300 will do it, but it will get expensive if you use it in say 3
layers to 50mm thick. But you could. You'd measure up the floor and chalk
out the very low bits, prime and pour 15mm of Stopgap. Give it a day,
repeat, until you only have 15mm at worst to fill, then finish with a
single pour. A spiked roller to work it will assist it becoming level by
itself. Follow F Balls instructions to the letter and you will probably
be pleasantly surprised.

Ah ha... a spiked roller... I just trowelled it previously.
:¬)

Did your Greenbag require a primer? Reason I ask is the primer forms a
waterproof layer, so stops the SLC being sucked dry on contact, which I'm
convince is a major factor in why it semed to work better than a lot of
cheap SLCs.

OTOH, you could do what I did and patch the very lowest parts with SBR
screed onto a SBR/cement primer brushed on, after priming the entire
floor with SBR. That will bond extremely well (the SBR is seriously magic
sh*t) and you could metal-float it over until it is "about" right, ie
10mm low. You do not want high points as it is so damn tough when it goes
off that it is a complete bitch to chisel back.

Just found your 2009 thread detailing your previous experiences Tim.

The Bathroom is 9' x 8' so not massive. Also need to look at soil pipe
first as currently it's one of those thin flexible couplings emerging
from the concrete which really isn't right in my mind.

9x8'? My feeling is anything less than 50mm screed over the celotex is
doomed to failure, even with reinforcement. I'm planning on 50mm in my
shower room, but that's only 3x6'

You'll probably get away with 50mm *if* you reinforce it to buggery (metal
mesh perhaps - not sure about the fibre additive) *and* have solid pads (no
celotex) under the bath feet and loo, which I reckon would be more or less
essential.

That's sort of what I did - reverse situation though. I had 20mm spare for
insulation, so I screeded, levelled (I really don't like screeding) and
tile-glued 20mm marmox down. I left generous pads for the bath feet (2.5x1'
pads carefully placed so more or less any make of bath would have its feet
on them) and a pad under the loo. Then I tiled over the lot with "flexible"
tile adhsive.

As you can get Marmox in various thicknesses (eg 30mm and higher) I wonder
if it might be easier for you to do it that way around and bring the base
layer up a bit?

The way I did the pads was to lay the marmox with cutouts then infill the
cutouts with wet screed (SBR added as I was working with thin screed),
trowelled in and ruled off level with the marmox.

2 years on and no problems, and even 20mm insulation does the job in
practice. The floor is initially cold to the foot but does not take long to
come up to flesh temperature and it's only the thickness of the tiles that
need warming. It compares very favourably to the kitchen which has no
insulation and can suck your soul through even shoes in winter!

Cheers

Tim


BTW - have not seen an email yet...
--
Tim Watts

www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

Any e-pinions greatly appreciated (Thickness will range from nothing to
close to 2" or more at worst point)
I used Wickes self levelling gloop ("with latex"!) a few years ago and
it worked nicely. Not to 2" depth (vaguely recall a limit) but I'm sure
layers could be built up. Went off nice and quickly and gave a very
smooth finish.

Thanks Scott.
I did consider the Wicks stuff but will have to see what max thickness
it would do as I don't really want to be doing a lot of thin layers.

(In case that read badly, "Not to 2in depth" should really read "I
didn't use it to 2in depth")

I can't imagine 2" in one go would be a problem as, thinking about it,
there was a limit to the /minimum/ thickness one should allow as I was
being naughty and had it really quite thin in places. Didn't break up
though while I was putting up studwork and generally bashing the room about.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?