I have a concealed shower control which has a flow control and a
separate thermostatic temperature control (Trevi Outline). The flow
handle controls two 1/2 inch ceramic valves via a gear-wheel assembly.
The cold flow ceramic valve had seized in the closed position.

Having take the various assemblies apart without problems, I started to
remove the ceramic valve using a box spanner as per normal procedure.
It unscrewed without any obvious difficulty but when I removed it, only
the brass part of the valve body came away leaving the ceramic and
plastic parts inside the brass manifold. I have now managed to remove
the ceramic and plastic valve innards without breaking them, but the
plastic/nylon valve body remains stuck fast inside the manifold and
nothing I have tried can shift it.

I've used a pair of pointed-nose pliers to try to shift it but only
succeeded in breaking off parts of the body moulding and the thin web
between the ports at the bottom. The valve body remains stuck
stubbornly inside the manifold. As an aside, I'm confident that none of
the small bits I broke off have fallen inside the manifold.

I'm thinking that the only option now is to attack it with a *very*
narrow hacksaw blade, should such a thing exist, or a needle file.
I'm hoping that someone else can come up with a brilliant idea that has
eluded me?

--
Dave N

On Nov 30, 3:21*pm, Dave N wrote:
I have a concealed shower control which has a flow control and a
separate thermostatic temperature control (Trevi Outline). *The flow
handle controls two 1/2 inch ceramic valves via a gear-wheel assembly.
The cold flow ceramic valve had seized in the closed position.

Having take the various assemblies apart without problems, I started to
remove the ceramic valve using a box spanner as per normal procedure.
It unscrewed without any obvious difficulty but when I removed it, only
the brass part of the valve body came away leaving the ceramic and
plastic parts inside the brass manifold. *I have now managed to remove
the ceramic and plastic valve innards without breaking them, but the
plastic/nylon valve body remains stuck fast inside the manifold and
nothing I have tried can shift it.

I've used a pair of pointed-nose pliers to try to shift it but only
succeeded in breaking off parts of the body moulding and the thin web
between the ports at the bottom. *The valve body remains stuck
stubbornly inside the manifold. *As an aside, I'm confident that none of
the small bits I broke off have fallen inside the manifold.

I'm thinking that the only option now is to attack it with a *very*
narrow hacksaw blade, should such a thing exist, or a needle file. *
I'm hoping that someone else can come up with a brilliant idea that has
eluded me?

--
Dave N


Heat & WD40?

harry wrote, on 30/11/2011 15:33:
On Nov 30, 3:21 pm, Dave wrote:
I have a concealed shower control which has a flow control and a
separate thermostatic temperature control (Trevi Outline). The flow
handle controls two 1/2 inch ceramic valves via a gear-wheel assembly.
The cold flow ceramic valve had seized in the closed position.

Having take the various assemblies apart without problems, I started to
remove the ceramic valve using a box spanner as per normal procedure.
It unscrewed without any obvious difficulty but when I removed it, only
the brass part of the valve body came away leaving the ceramic and
plastic parts inside the brass manifold. I have now managed to remove
the ceramic and plastic valve innards without breaking them, but the
plastic/nylon valve body remains stuck fast inside the manifold and
nothing I have tried can shift it.

I've used a pair of pointed-nose pliers to try to shift it but only
succeeded in breaking off parts of the body moulding and the thin web
between the ports at the bottom. The valve body remains stuck
stubbornly inside the manifold. As an aside, I'm confident that none of
the small bits I broke off have fallen inside the manifold.

I'm thinking that the only option now is to attack it with a *very*
narrow hacksaw blade, should such a thing exist, or a needle file.
I'm hoping that someone else can come up with a brilliant idea that has
eluded me?

--
Dave N


Heat& WD40?

Yes, I've tried that and the remains of the valve body are now rotating
within the manifold but it still won't pull out. There's an O-ring on
the outside of the plastic/nylon valve body where it seats in the
manifold and presumably it's doing its job too well. I've started to
attack the valve body with a triangular needle file from the inside but
that's going to take a *very* long time

As ever with such problems, it's in an awkward position at the end of
the bath where I have to half crouch and balance on the balls of my
feet. I'm having to take a breather every five minutes. Meanwhile the
gate valves won't close completely so I'm also standing in a small
trickle of water coming from the bath taps but at least that doesn't
mean I've got water leaking into the shower valves. sigh

--
Dave N

Dave N wrote, on 30/11/2011 16:52:
harry wrote, on 30/11/2011 15:33:
[...]
Heat& WD40?

Yes, I've tried that and the remains of the valve body are now rotating
within the manifold but it still won't pull out. There's an O-ring on
the outside of the plastic/nylon valve body where it seats in the
manifold and presumably it's doing its job too well. I've started to
attack the valve body with a triangular needle file from the inside but
that's going to take a *very* long time.

I'm getting nowhere fast with a needle file. I've been thinking about
circlip pliers. Perhaps a small pair can be manoeuvred through the
bottom ports of the valve body and then opened in order to pull the body
out from behind. Are there such things where the bent noses are at 180
degrees to each other? If so, would they have a specific name?

--
Dave N

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:41:20 +0000, Dave N wrote:

Dave N wrote, on 30/11/2011 16:52:
harry wrote, on 30/11/2011 15:33:
[...]
Heat& WD40?

Yes, I've tried that and the remains of the valve body are now rotating
within the manifold but it still won't pull out. There's an O-ring on
the outside of the plastic/nylon valve body where it seats in the
manifold and presumably it's doing its job too well. I've started to
attack the valve body with a triangular needle file from the inside but
that's going to take a *very* long time.

I'm getting nowhere fast with a needle file. I've been thinking about
circlip pliers. Perhaps a small pair can be manoeuvred through the
bottom ports of the valve body and then opened in order to pull the body
out from behind. Are there such things where the bent noses are at 180
degrees to each other? If so, would they have a specific name?

How about an small expanding bolt of a suitable size? Just wind it by
hand sufficient to get a grip without expanding the valve body...



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

Bob Eager wrote, on 01/12/2011 01:09:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:41:20 +0000, Dave N wrote:
[...]
I'm getting nowhere fast with a needle file. I've been thinking about
circlip pliers. Perhaps a small pair can be manoeuvred through the
bottom ports of the valve body and then opened in order to pull the body
out from behind. Are there such things where the bent noses are at 180
degrees to each other? If so, would they have a specific name?

How about an small expanding bolt of a suitable size? Just wind it by
hand sufficient to get a grip without expanding the valve body...


Hmmm, thanks for the idea. I'm off to the local ironmongers and DIY
sheds this morning to see if I can find anything.

--
Dave N

On Dec 1, 7:35*am, Dave N wrote:
Bob Eager wrote, on 01/12/2011 01:09:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:41:20 +0000, Dave N wrote:
[...]
I'm getting nowhere fast with a needle file. *I've been thinking about
circlip pliers. *Perhaps a small pair can be manoeuvred through the
bottom ports of the valve body and then opened in order to pull the body
out from behind. *Are there such things where the bent noses are at 180
degrees to each other? *If so, would they have a specific name?

How about an small expanding bolt of a suitable size? Just wind it by
hand sufficient to get a grip without expanding the valve body...

Hmmm, thanks for the idea. *I'm off to the local ironmongers and DIY
sheds this morning to see if I can find anything.

--
Dave N

I think you might as well give in and buy a new shower valve at this
point.
You will be chucking good money after bad.
Ideally an identical one so as not to muck up the tiling.

harry wrote, on 01/12/2011 08:31:
On Dec 1, 7:35 am, Dave wrote:
[...]
Hmmm, thanks for the idea. I'm off to the local ironmongers and DIY
sheds this morning to see if I can find anything.

--
Dave N

I think you might as well give in and buy a new shower valve at this
point.
You will be chucking good money after bad.
Ideally an identical one so as not to muck up the tiling.

There's the rub. I can't get to the pipe unions on the valve assembly
without breaking at least a couple of tiles. The bathroom fitter
installed the concealed shower controls onto a wall surface, built a
frame and box structure around the plumbing to fit flush with the end of
the bath and then tiled over everything. The cost of a new valve
assembly will be about 200 pounds plus the cost of replacing tiles (if
still available; they are 5 years old and the supplier no longer trades).

I couldn't find any likely tool even though I have a couple of very good
hardware and plumbing shops near here. I even went to Halfords(!) in
case they had a small puller, but found nothing suitable. What I'm
after is something like a couple of strong metal crochet hooks but can I
find any locally ... ?

--
Dave N

On Dec 1, 1:51*pm, Dave N wrote:
harry wrote, on 01/12/2011 08:31:

On Dec 1, 7:35 am, Dave *wrote:
[...]
Hmmm, thanks for the idea. *I'm off to the local ironmongers and DIY
sheds this morning to see if I can find anything.

--
Dave N

I think you might as well give in and buy a new shower valve at this
point.
You will be chucking good money after bad.
Ideally an identical one so as not to muck up the tiling.

There's the rub. *I can't get to the pipe unions on the valve assembly
without breaking at least a couple of tiles. *The bathroom fitter
installed the concealed shower controls onto a wall surface, built a
frame and box structure around the plumbing to fit flush with the end of
the bath and then tiled over everything. *The cost of a new valve
assembly will be about 200 pounds plus the cost of replacing tiles (if
still available; they are 5 years old and the supplier no longer trades).

I couldn't find any likely tool even though I have a couple of very good
hardware and plumbing shops near here. *I even went to Halfords(!) in
case they had a small puller, but found nothing suitable. *What I'm
after is something like a couple of strong metal crochet hooks but can I
find any locally ... ?

--
Dave N


Well you could always make a feature of new tiling rather than try to
conceal it.

Or make a stainless steel/some kind of plastic plate to cover the hole
with edges sealed.

In article ,
says...

harry wrote, on 01/12/2011 08:31:
On Dec 1, 7:35 am, Dave wrote:
[...]
Hmmm, thanks for the idea. I'm off to the local ironmongers and DIY
sheds this morning to see if I can find anything.

--
Dave N

I think you might as well give in and buy a new shower valve at this
point.
You will be chucking good money after bad.
Ideally an identical one so as not to muck up the tiling.

There's the rub. I can't get to the pipe unions on the valve assembly
without breaking at least a couple of tiles. The bathroom fitter
installed the concealed shower controls onto a wall surface, built a
frame and box structure around the plumbing to fit flush with the end of
the bath and then tiled over everything. The cost of a new valve
assembly will be about 200 pounds plus the cost of replacing tiles (if
still available; they are 5 years old and the supplier no longer trades).

I couldn't find any likely tool even though I have a couple of very good
hardware and plumbing shops near here. I even went to Halfords(!) in
case they had a small puller, but found nothing suitable. What I'm
after is something like a couple of strong metal crochet hooks but can I
find any locally ... ?

If you're in a hard water area, could the problem be caused by lime-
scale build up 'welding' the guts to the housing?

In which case a descaler might do the trick if you can get it to
penetrate sufficiently.

I think I've got some descaler gel kicking around somewhere. Got it from
Aldi IIRC but never got round to using it so no idea how well it might
work!

Worth a try though, if you can find something a bit thicker than the
usual descaling fluids.

Alternatively, would it be possible to apply very small droplets of
concentrated nitric acid in exactly the right place ...?

--

Terry

In article ,
lid says...


Alternatively, would it be possible to apply very small droplets of
concentrated nitric acid in exactly the right place ...?

Or, considering the probable practical problem of sourcing the acid,
perhaps a 1ml syringe could be used with conventional descaling fluid.

Advantages: keeps spillage wastage to a minimum, accuracy of
application, bulk of descaler can be kept hot during application (I
don't think any of these fluids are [very] effective when cold.)

--

Terry

Terry Casey wrote, on 01/12/2011 15:16:
In ,
says...
[...]
I couldn't find any likely tool even though I have a couple of very good
hardware and plumbing shops near here. I even went to Halfords(!) in
case they had a small puller, but found nothing suitable. What I'm
after is something like a couple of strong metal crochet hooks but can I
find any locally ... ?

If you're in a hard water area, could the problem be caused by lime-
scale build up 'welding' the guts to the housing?

In which case a descaler might do the trick if you can get it to
penetrate sufficiently.

That's the one issue I'm hoping won't turn out to be a major stumbling
block.

I might have found the answer to my original question, however, which
like all good solutions is blindingly obvious once realised. I talked
over the problem with my wife, including getting a couple of crochet
hooks, and she simply asked if I could use a coat hanger!

I've made my own tool from a wire coat hanger. I cut a length of
straight wire, bent it into a half-loop with parallel legs, then bent
the last few millimetres at the ends of the legs out at right angles and
in the opposite sense to each other. It only took me about 5 minutes.

When everyone is out tomorrow, so that I can turn off the hot water
supply, I'll try out my new tool which has cost me nothing. It might
need some fettling in order to pass the "hooks" through the ports at the
back of the valve body but I'll post again with the result.

--
Dave N

Dave N wrote, on 01/12/2011 23:50:
[...]
I've made my own tool from a wire coat hanger. I cut a length of
straight wire, bent it into a half-loop with parallel legs, then bent
the last few millimetres at the ends of the legs out at right angles and
in the opposite sense to each other. It only took me about 5 minutes.

Success! I had to shorten the "hooks" slightly by filing them to fit
through the ports but then the plastic valve body pulled out reasonably
easily.

I checked the other ceramic valve, although it had been working
correctly, and found that the brass carrier unscrewed just the same as
the first leaving the plastic valve body stuck firmly inside the barrel
of the manifold.

It seems, from close examination, that the plastic valve body is simply
a push fit inside the brass carrier screw. Where they join, there is a
ridge in the plastic and lime-scale builds up on the ridge so blocking
its removal.

This time I was able to remove the plastic body by applying WD40
liberally and then jiggling the plastic from side to side trying to
break the lime-scale by using a flat-blade screwdriver on the lip, all
the while pulling the body with needle pointed pliers.

The design is almost guaranteed to come apart inside the manifold barrel
when unscrewing the brass carrier. I think that 6-monthly or annual
maintenance by removing both valves, cleaning and smearing with vaseline
might pay dividends. I haven't dared to try to remove the new valves
I've just installed just in case they come apart again. I don't have
any more spares yet. New ceramic valves cost about 18 pounds each, part
no. A952501NU11.

--
Dave N

On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:35:28 +0000, Dave N
wrote:
Dave N wrote, on 01/12/2011 23:50:
maintenance by removing both valves, cleaning and smearing with
vaseline
might pay dividends. I haven't dared to try to remove the new
valves

Vaseline might be a mistake. Silicone grease is the stuff to use.
Lawrence

Lawrence wrote, on 02/12/2011 15:51:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:35:28 +0000, Dave N wrote:
Dave N wrote, on 01/12/2011 23:50:
maintenance by removing both valves, cleaning and smearing with
vaseline
might pay dividends. I haven't dared to try to remove the new
valves

Vaseline might be a mistake. Silicone grease is the stuff to use.
Lawrence

Ah, good point.

--
Dave N

On Dec 2, 3:51*pm, Lawrence wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:35:28 +0000, Dave N
wrote: Dave N wrote, on 01/12/2011 23:50:
maintenance by removing both valves, cleaning and smearing with
vaseline
might pay dividends. *I haven't dared to try to remove the new

valves

Vaseline might be a mistake. Silicone grease is the stuff to use.
Lawrence

Or/and maybe think about a water softener?

On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:35:28 +0000, Dave N wrote:

Dave N wrote, on 01/12/2011 23:50:
[...]
I've made my own tool from a wire coat hanger. I cut a length of
straight wire, bent it into a half-loop with parallel legs, then bent
the last few millimetres at the ends of the legs out at right angles and
in the opposite sense to each other. It only took me about 5 minutes.

Success! I had to shorten the "hooks" slightly by filing them to fit
through the ports but then the plastic valve body pulled out reasonably
easily.
snip
Although possibly a bit big for this application, I find that old (or new)
bike spokes are very useful where a small hook is needed. The head acts as
the hook and the bent bit is much shorter than attainable by bending wire,
Filing off some of the flange of the head will make it smaller; I've some
15/17 ga. spokes in stainless for smaller loads.

One of times that a spoke was very useful was when I opened a DG window and
the top hinge was broken. The window needed pushing from the outide, but
rather than getting a ladder I just hooked the window with a spoke and got
it almost closed before removing the spoke and closing the window.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Dave

You might be a godsend. I have exactly the same problem and cannot get the plastic part of the cartridge out of the shower manifold. I have tried pulling with thin nose pliers, but get the impression the plastic will break and I've also ended up with bent pliers. I presume the coat hanger ends pass all the way through the plastic part to the rear and once hooked on I will be able to pull it out. Fingers crossed.

Neil