The ignition system on our old (probably 20 years) gas hob has failed
and we've been using matches. I've seen some in shops that look about
the same size, so I'd expect to be able to disconnect the old one,
unscrew it, and drop the new one in. From the last time I rummaged
around under the oven (which is under the hob but completely separate
from it, and not gas-connected), I think it the hob has a flexible gas
line coming down to a bayonet or similar fitting. Is reconnecting
this suitable for a DIY job? Are the fittings likely to have changed
over the years?

Also, I noticed that most --- but not all --- of the ones I've seen in
shops say "flame failure" on them. Are they not all required now to
cut the gas off if the flame gets blown out?

Thanks,
Adam

Adam Funk wrote:
The ignition system on our old (probably 20 years) gas hob has failed
and we've been using matches. I've seen some in shops that look about
the same size, so I'd expect to be able to disconnect the old one,
unscrew it, and drop the new one in. From the last time I rummaged
around under the oven (which is under the hob but completely separate
from it, and not gas-connected), I think it the hob has a flexible gas
line coming down to a bayonet or similar fitting.

More likely that was the oven connection. Hobs have to be "hard plumbed" as
I understand it.

Is reconnecting
this suitable for a DIY job?

As ever, only if you're "competent".

Tim

On 2011-11-22, Tim Downie wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:
The ignition system on our old (probably 20 years) gas hob has failed
and we've been using matches. I've seen some in shops that look about
the same size, so I'd expect to be able to disconnect the old one,
unscrew it, and drop the new one in. From the last time I rummaged
around under the oven (which is under the hob but completely separate
from it, and not gas-connected), I think it the hob has a flexible gas
line coming down to a bayonet or similar fitting.

More likely that was the oven connection. Hobs have to be "hard plumbed" as
I understand it.

I'm pretty sure the gas hose is not for the electric fan oven. ;-)


Is reconnecting this suitable for a DIY job?

As ever, only if you're "competent".

"Competent" in the usual sense, or trained & qualified to do gas work?

Adam Funk wrote:
On 2011-11-22, Tim Downie wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:
The ignition system on our old (probably 20 years) gas hob has
failed and we've been using matches. I've seen some in shops that
look about the same size, so I'd expect to be able to disconnect
the old one, unscrew it, and drop the new one in. From the last
time I rummaged around under the oven (which is under the hob but
completely separate from it, and not gas-connected), I think it the
hob has a flexible gas line coming down to a bayonet or similar
fitting.

More likely that was the oven connection. Hobs have to be "hard
plumbed" as I understand it.

I'm pretty sure the gas hose is not for the electric fan oven. ;-)


Outlawed since 2004 apparently.


Is reconnecting this suitable for a DIY job?

As ever, only if you're "competent".

"Competent" in the usual sense, or trained & qualified to do gas work?

Competent means competent. You don't need a qualification unless you're
charging for your work.

Suggest you do some googling. Here's a good place to start.
http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html

It might be a few years out of date though.

Tim

Tim Downie wrote:
Which bit of (GasFitting.html) did you not understand?

I understood, and by implication was asking for clarification on (and
by
asking in this thread though that would be useful to other readers):
"for example, fitting an inset gas hob consists essentially of "cut
hole,
drop in hob, secure, and connect up to gas supply". However, this
hides the
fact that there is often a stack of standards of be complied with
which the
installation instructions may or may not tell you about."

JGH

Flame supervision devices are required on cookers and hobs installed
in flats, multiple tennancy buildings and the like.
There is no requirement as yet to fit these in in houses, semis,town house
etc.

Flexi hoses can be fitted to hobs if manufacturer's instructions do not
forbid it.

Here is a quote from BS 6172

A gas hob shall be connected to the termination point by means of rigid
pipework or, unless stated
otherwise in the manufacturer’s instructions, a flexible connector and
self-sealing plug device conforming
to BS 669-1.
Connections for a free-standing cooker shall be by means of a flexible
connector for use with a
self-sealing plug-in device or rigid pipework.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

Tim Downie wrote:
I'm only quoting from section 4(a) of this. (GasFitting.html)

"As of autumn 2004 it is no longer acceptable to supply a fixed hob
with a flexible connector."

Akh, B**Ks, didn't read that far, just searched for "hob". Slapped
wrist accepted.

JGH

On 22/11/2011 14:09, Tim Downie wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
The ignition system on our old (probably 20 years) gas hob has failed
and we've been using matches. I've seen some in shops that look about
the same size, so I'd expect to be able to disconnect the old one,
unscrew it, and drop the new one in. From the last time I rummaged
around under the oven (which is under the hob but completely separate
from it, and not gas-connected), I think it the hob has a flexible gas
line coming down to a bayonet or similar fitting.

More likely that was the oven connection. Hobs have to be "hard plumbed"
as I understand it.

Hard plumbed unless otherwise directed by the manufacturer's
installation instructions.

Is reconnecting
this suitable for a DIY job?

As ever, only if you're "competent".

Tim



--
Cheers,

John.

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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

I dare say someone will be along to quote chapter and verse.

I thought I'd read all about it here before and have now found the
relevant thread with expert words of interpretation from John Stumbles
and Ed Sirrett on successive editions of BS 6172. The key words seem to
be:

11.1.3 A gas hob shall be connected to the termination point by means
of rigid pipework or, unless stated otherwise in the manufacturer’s
instructions, a flexible connector and self-sealing plug device
conforming
to BS 669-1.

But the full thread's here for reference
https://groups.google.com/group/uk.d...cffd15e1dc1519
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:41:06 +0000, Robin wrote:

Outlawed since 2004 apparently.

Can you please point me to what has outlawed the use of a flexible house
if (i) the hob's manufacturer states that is a suitable method and (ii)
the hob is not fitted over an oven (and not anywhere else that might
lead the hose to come into contact with temperatures over 70)?

If the manufacturer's instructions specifically say that you may use a
hose then you may (in accordance with whatever they say); otherwise it
would not be considered an 'approved fitting' (because hoses are
generally intended for appliances such as slot-in cookers and tumble-
driers which can be moved) and the Gas Safety (Installation and Use)
Regulations prohibit use of non-approved fittings.

There's probably more in BS6891 about hoses but it's late and I cba
looking it up.

BTW I have a different take from Ed (makewrite) and others on the
'competent' business, which I've written about on my wibble (below -
under DIY gas or something). Regardless of interpretation however, in the
case of the OP I'd guess not.

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:36:50 -0800, jgharston wrote:

My brother mentioned that to me at the weekend, and I said "what, can't
plug in a bayonet hose any more? My gas service plumber has never
mentioned that" It was only when I got home that I remembered he only
has a gas hob, not a gas cooker. Is it correct that a freestanding gas
cooker should be (has to be? is allowed to be?) connected via a hose and
a fixed gas just-a-hob must be connected by fixed piping?

Yup, unless manufacturer either requires or allows otherwise.

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

How odd of God But not so odd as those who choose
To choose the Jews A Jewish god, yet spurn the Jews

On 22/11/2011 23:36, YAPH wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:41:06 +0000, Robin wrote:

Outlawed since 2004 apparently.

Can you please point me to what has outlawed the use of a flexible house
if (i) the hob's manufacturer states that is a suitable method and (ii)
the hob is not fitted over an oven (and not anywhere else that might
lead the hose to come into contact with temperatures over 70)?

If the manufacturer's instructions specifically say that you may use a
hose then you may (in accordance with whatever they say); otherwise it
would not be considered an 'approved fitting' (because hoses are
generally intended for appliances such as slot-in cookers and tumble-
driers which can be moved) and the Gas Safety (Installation and Use)
Regulations prohibit use of non-approved fittings.

I had a look in BS 6172:2010 version, and it has the wording:

"11.1.3 A gas hob shall be connected to the termination point by means
of rigid pipework or, unless stated otherwise in the manufacturer's
instructions, a flexible connector and self-sealing plug-in device
conforming to BS 669-1."

which seems to be the inverse of what I originally understood. i.e. use
rigid unless explicitly directed otherwise.

There's probably more in BS6891 about hoses but it's late and I cba
looking it up.

Not much that I could see.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
I had a look in BS 6172:2010 version, and it has the wording:

"11.1.3 A gas hob shall be connected to the termination point by means
of rigid pipework or, unless stated otherwise in the manufacturer's
instructions, a flexible connector and self-sealing plug-in device
conforming to BS 669-1."

which seems to be the inverse of what I originally understood. i.e.
use rigid unless explicitly directed otherwise.


Certainly to me is it reads as, "Take your pick unless the manufacturer
specifies one particular method".

Tim

On 2011-11-22, Heliotrope Smith wrote:

Flame supervision devices are required on cookers and hobs installed
in flats, multiple tennancy buildings and the like.
There is no requirement as yet to fit these in in houses, semis,town house
etc.

OK, but it seems to me that flame-supervision is a good thing to have
at home, even though it's not required.

Flexi hoses can be fitted to hobs if manufacturer's instructions do not
forbid it.

Here is a quote from BS 6172

A gas hob shall be connected to the termination point by means of rigid
pipework or, unless stated
otherwise in the manufacturerÂ’s instructions, a flexible connector and
self-sealing plug device conforming
to BS 669-1.
Connections for a free-standing cooker shall be by means of a flexible
connector for use with a
self-sealing plug-in device or rigid pipework.

Thanks.

On 2011-11-22, YAPH wrote:

If the manufacturer's instructions specifically say that you may use a
hose then you may (in accordance with whatever they say); otherwise it
would not be considered an 'approved fitting' (because hoses are
generally intended for appliances such as slot-in cookers and tumble-
driers which can be moved) and the Gas Safety (Installation and Use)
Regulations prohibit use of non-approved fittings.

That makes sense, thanks. I'll check the hobs' documentation before
picking one. In this situation, I'd strongly prefer one that can be
connected with a flexible hose because I think installing fixed piping
might require taking the oven out for access.


There's probably more in BS6891 about hoses but it's late and I cba
looking it up.

BTW I have a different take from Ed (makewrite) and others on the
'competent' business, which I've written about on my wibble (below -

I like the Cistern Chapel artwork (and the page showing how it was
done)! Interesting content too, thanks.


under DIY gas or something). Regardless of interpretation however, in the
case of the OP I'd guess not.

I wouldn't try to do gas pipe myself. I'd feel confident about
reconnecting flexible hose to the existing fitting while dropping in a
hob in the same place as the old one. (I'll probably buy a new hose
if the hob didn't come with one, since I don't know how old the
current hose is.)

On 2011-11-22, YAPH wrote:

If the manufacturer's instructions specifically say that you may use a
hose then you may (in accordance with whatever they say); otherwise it
would not be considered an 'approved fitting' (because hoses are
generally intended for appliances such as slot-in cookers and tumble-
driers which can be moved) and the Gas Safety (Installation and Use)
Regulations prohibit use of non-approved fittings.

AFAICT no manufacturer's instructions allow hoses for fixed hobs. So
that's the indirect answer to that question.


There's probably more in BS6891 about hoses but it's late and I cba
looking it up.

BTW I have a different take from Ed (makewrite) and others on the
'competent' business, which I've written about on my wibble (below -
under DIY gas or something). Regardless of interpretation however, in the
case of the OP I'd guess not.

Just to follow up on this, I decided to hire a local plumber &
gas-fitter recommended by a friend. I had to get the hob replaced
(even though we were getting used to using matches) because the new
electric fan oven (which I was replacing myself) was taller at the
back than the old one and wouldn't fit under the mess of elbows coming
down from the old hob.

This guy did a beautifully neat job on the pipework; it's almost a
shame the oven hides it.