I need to solder to the ends of some D cell NiMHs. I know you're not
supposed to solder to batteries, but they have no tabs and welding them
isn't an option. After some experimentation I'm happy that I can do it
without overheating them if I have a large enough source of heat so I can
do each job quickly (less than a second on each end).

I have a '150W' soldering gun. However it's pathetic. It takes maybe a
minute of holding the trigger to warm up, and is incapable of melting 3mm
thick leaded solder (just makes it soft like toffee). It can just about
solder the batteries, but any time I want to put it down it needs a few
minutes to warm again. I put it on a power meter and it's taking 60W in
heat-from-cold no-load mode, so clearly something is very wrong. I've tried
cleaning up the electrode terminals - helps for a minute or so but then they
oxidise again and performance gets worse. A new tip hasn't improved it.
I'm also not terribly happy with the way its performance depends on what
metal is across the tip - put a blob of solder across the end, the
resistance goes down and so the heating moves to the terminals and not the
tip. Sounds like I was ripped off for the 2 pounds I paid for it

So I've been wondering about another iron. Alternatives seem to be a
100Wish 'conventional' pencil-type soldering iron, or a gas flame thing. I
already have a 45W temperature controlled iron for the small stuff, so I
just want something for beefy jobs. I'm unlikely to be soldering pipes, but
will use it general metalwork (not necessarily electrical). Something
relatively crude is fine - don't need temperature control etc etc. I know
where I am with pencil irons, but have no experience of gas.

So any suggestions for what sort of iron to buy?

Thanks
Theo

On Oct 15, 11:08*pm, Theo Markettos theom
wrote:

So any suggestions for what sort of iron to buy?

Antex, 100W, not temperature controlled, 15 quid(ish) from CPC

Or:
The instant iron you have, with a chunk of copper or brass screwed /
clamped / brazed to the tip. Don't make the thin bit too thin though,
or else you reduce the power of the element.

In article ,
Theo Markettos writes:
I need to solder to the ends of some D cell NiMHs. I know you're not
supposed to solder to batteries, but they have no tabs and welding them
isn't an option. After some experimentation I'm happy that I can do it
without overheating them if I have a large enough source of heat so I can
do each job quickly (less than a second on each end).

I have a '150W' soldering gun. However it's pathetic. It takes maybe a
minute of holding the trigger to warm up, and is incapable of melting 3mm
thick leaded solder (just makes it soft like toffee). It can just about

There's something wrong with it, although a soldering gun has very
different characteristics from a soldering iron, and you can't compare
wattages. Soldering guns have very low heat capacity bits, since they
have to heat them up each time you use them, but it shouldn't take
longer than 10-15 seconds.

solder the batteries, but any time I want to put it down it needs a few
minutes to warm again. I put it on a power meter and it's taking 60W in
heat-from-cold no-load mode, so clearly something is very wrong. I've tried
cleaning up the electrode terminals - helps for a minute or so but then they
oxidise again and performance gets worse. A new tip hasn't improved it.
I'm also not terribly happy with the way its performance depends on what
metal is across the tip - put a blob of solder across the end, the
resistance goes down and so the heating moves to the terminals and not the
tip. Sounds like I was ripped off for the 2 pounds I paid for it

So I've been wondering about another iron. Alternatives seem to be a
100Wish 'conventional' pencil-type soldering iron, or a gas flame thing. I
already have a 45W temperature controlled iron for the small stuff, so I
just want something for beefy jobs. I'm unlikely to be soldering pipes, but
will use it general metalwork (not necessarily electrical). Something
relatively crude is fine - don't need temperature control etc etc. I know
where I am with pencil irons, but have no experience of gas.

So any suggestions for what sort of iron to buy?

A 45W iron is more than enough to solder the batteries, but the
heat capacity of the bit is more important than the power.

With a temperature controlled iron, I would use 800F which would
do the job in a fraction of a second. Counter intuitively, the
high temperature means you can solder much faster, and get less
heat passed into the object. The power of the iron is irrelvant,
it's the heat capacity of the bit which matters for this sort of
thing.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Theo Markettos wrote:
I need to solder to the ends of some D cell NiMHs. I know you're not
supposed to solder to batteries, but they have no tabs and welding them
isn't an option. After some experimentation I'm happy that I can do it
without overheating them if I have a large enough source of heat so I can
do each job quickly (less than a second on each end).

I have a '150W' soldering gun. However it's pathetic. It takes maybe a
minute of holding the trigger to warm up, and is incapable of melting
3mm thick leaded solder (just makes it soft like toffee). It can just
about solder the batteries, but any time I want to put it down it needs
a few minutes to warm again. I put it on a power meter and it's taking
60W in heat-from-cold no-load mode, so clearly something is very wrong.
I've tried cleaning up the electrode terminals - helps for a minute or
so but then they oxidise again and performance gets worse. A new tip
hasn't improved it. I'm also not terribly happy with the way its
performance depends on what metal is across the tip - put a blob of
solder across the end, the resistance goes down and so the heating moves
to the terminals and not the tip. Sounds like I was ripped off for the
2 pounds I paid for it

Sounds like a poor design. I have a Weller one which works well. Gets so
hot the tips just about melt.

So I've been wondering about another iron. Alternatives seem to be a
100Wish 'conventional' pencil-type soldering iron, or a gas flame thing.
I already have a 45W temperature controlled iron for the small stuff,
so I just want something for beefy jobs. I'm unlikely to be soldering
pipes, but will use it general metalwork (not necessarily electrical).
Something relatively crude is fine - don't need temperature control etc
etc. I know where I am with pencil irons, but have no experience of gas.

So any suggestions for what sort of iron to buy?

A bigger bit for your temp controlled iron, and turn it up a bit. That's
what I do here for soldering cells.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Theo Markettos wrote:
I need to solder to the ends of some D cell NiMHs. I know you're not
supposed to solder to batteries, but they have no tabs and welding them
isn't an option. After some experimentation I'm happy that I can do it
without overheating them if I have a large enough source of heat so I can
do each job quickly (less than a second on each end).

I have a '150W' soldering gun. However it's pathetic. It takes maybe a
minute of holding the trigger to warm up, and is incapable of melting 3mm
thick leaded solder (just makes it soft like toffee). It can just about
solder the batteries, but any time I want to put it down it needs a few
minutes to warm again. I put it on a power meter and it's taking 60W in
heat-from-cold no-load mode, so clearly something is very wrong. I've tried
cleaning up the electrode terminals - helps for a minute or so but then they
oxidise again and performance gets worse. A new tip hasn't improved it.
I'm also not terribly happy with the way its performance depends on what
metal is across the tip - put a blob of solder across the end, the
resistance goes down and so the heating moves to the terminals and not the
tip. Sounds like I was ripped off for the 2 pounds I paid for it

So I've been wondering about another iron. Alternatives seem to be a
100Wish 'conventional' pencil-type soldering iron, or a gas flame thing. I
already have a 45W temperature controlled iron for the small stuff, so I
just want something for beefy jobs. I'm unlikely to be soldering pipes, but
will use it general metalwork (not necessarily electrical). Something
relatively crude is fine - don't need temperature control etc etc. I know
where I am with pencil irons, but have no experience of gas.

So any suggestions for what sort of iron to buy?

Thanks
Theo
The standard tool for this is a hammer (double) headed tip that goes on
e.g. a weller. Its a massive copper bolt and takes an age to heat up,

When its hot you put the cells end to end in a spring loaded tray
and,after tinning the facing ends, Insert the hammaerr head between the
and when molten both sides, remove it and the springs (or a fast hand)
slaps the cells together.


They key is a lot of thermal mass in te right shape, so the tip does not
cool

They are available from model battery suppiliers.

If OTOH you are NOT making up series packs just go for am iron with a
LARGE tip. Or one you can add a large tip too..the thermal mass is what
you want.

Her are some useful guideline products.

http://www.radicalrc.com/category/Soldering-201

If uuou can source similar in the UK that will do the job.

Ultimately its best to spot weld to nickel cells if you can find someone
to do it, but most people in the RC world have successfully soldered
cells with a hot iron a big tip and a bit of skill. I've even solrdered
aluminium electrodes on Lithium polymer cells..with the right flux.
Evils stuff, but it does work.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Theo Markettos wrote:
I need to solder to the ends of some D cell NiMHs. I know you're not
supposed to solder to batteries, but they have no tabs and welding them
isn't an option. After some experimentation I'm happy that I can do it
without overheating them if I have a large enough source of heat so I can
do each job quickly (less than a second on each end).

I have a '150W' soldering gun. However it's pathetic. It takes maybe a
minute of holding the trigger to warm up, and is incapable of melting 3mm
thick leaded solder (just makes it soft like toffee). It can just about
solder the batteries, but any time I want to put it down it needs a few
minutes to warm again. I put it on a power meter and it's taking 60W in
heat-from-cold no-load mode, so clearly something is very wrong. I've
tried
cleaning up the electrode terminals - helps for a minute or so but then
they
oxidise again and performance gets worse. A new tip hasn't improved it.
I'm also not terribly happy with the way its performance depends on what
metal is across the tip - put a blob of solder across the end, the
resistance goes down and so the heating moves to the terminals and not
the
tip. Sounds like I was ripped off for the 2 pounds I paid for it

So I've been wondering about another iron. Alternatives seem to be a
100Wish 'conventional' pencil-type soldering iron, or a gas flame thing.
I
already have a 45W temperature controlled iron for the small stuff, so I
just want something for beefy jobs. I'm unlikely to be soldering pipes,
but
will use it general metalwork (not necessarily electrical). Something
relatively crude is fine - don't need temperature control etc etc. I
know
where I am with pencil irons, but have no experience of gas.

So any suggestions for what sort of iron to buy?

Thanks
Theo
The standard tool for this is a hammer (double) headed tip that goes on
e.g. a weller. Its a massive copper bolt and takes an age to heat up,

When its hot you put the cells end to end in a spring loaded tray
and,after tinning the facing ends, Insert the hammaerr head between the
and when molten both sides, remove it and the springs (or a fast hand)
slaps the cells together.


They key is a lot of thermal mass in te right shape, so the tip does not
cool

They are available from model battery suppiliers.

If OTOH you are NOT making up series packs just go for am iron with a
LARGE tip. Or one you can add a large tip too..the thermal mass is what
you want.

Her are some useful guideline products.

http://www.radicalrc.com/category/Soldering-201

If uuou can source similar in the UK that will do the job.

Ultimately its best to spot weld to nickel cells if you can find someone
to do it, but most people in the RC world have successfully soldered cells
with a hot iron a big tip and a bit of skill. I've even solrdered
aluminium electrodes on Lithium polymer cells..with the right flux. Evils
stuff, but it does work.

Take more water with it

brass monkey wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Theo Markettos wrote:
I need to solder to the ends of some D cell NiMHs. I know you're not
supposed to solder to batteries, but they have no tabs and welding them
isn't an option. After some experimentation I'm happy that I can do it
without overheating them if I have a large enough source of heat so I can
do each job quickly (less than a second on each end).

I have a '150W' soldering gun. However it's pathetic. It takes maybe a
minute of holding the trigger to warm up, and is incapable of melting 3mm
thick leaded solder (just makes it soft like toffee). It can just about
solder the batteries, but any time I want to put it down it needs a few
minutes to warm again. I put it on a power meter and it's taking 60W in
heat-from-cold no-load mode, so clearly something is very wrong. I've
tried
cleaning up the electrode terminals - helps for a minute or so but then
they
oxidise again and performance gets worse. A new tip hasn't improved it.
I'm also not terribly happy with the way its performance depends on what
metal is across the tip - put a blob of solder across the end, the
resistance goes down and so the heating moves to the terminals and not
the
tip. Sounds like I was ripped off for the 2 pounds I paid for it

So I've been wondering about another iron. Alternatives seem to be a
100Wish 'conventional' pencil-type soldering iron, or a gas flame thing.
I
already have a 45W temperature controlled iron for the small stuff, so I
just want something for beefy jobs. I'm unlikely to be soldering pipes,
but
will use it general metalwork (not necessarily electrical). Something
relatively crude is fine - don't need temperature control etc etc. I
know
where I am with pencil irons, but have no experience of gas.

So any suggestions for what sort of iron to buy?

Thanks
Theo
The standard tool for this is a hammer (double) headed tip that goes on
e.g. a weller. Its a massive copper bolt and takes an age to heat up,

When its hot you put the cells end to end in a spring loaded tray
and,after tinning the facing ends, Insert the hammaerr head between the
and when molten both sides, remove it and the springs (or a fast hand)
slaps the cells together.


They key is a lot of thermal mass in te right shape, so the tip does not
cool

They are available from model battery suppiliers.

If OTOH you are NOT making up series packs just go for am iron with a
LARGE tip. Or one you can add a large tip too..the thermal mass is what
you want.

Her are some useful guideline products.

http://www.radicalrc.com/category/Soldering-201

If uuou can source similar in the UK that will do the job.

Ultimately its best to spot weld to nickel cells if you can find someone
to do it, but most people in the RC world have successfully soldered cells
with a hot iron a big tip and a bit of skill. I've even solrdered
aluminium electrodes on Lithium polymer cells..with the right flux. Evils
stuff, but it does work.

Take more water with it



Hehe. Not really. The fumes give you instant emphysema for about 4
hours. I will never fail to 'make sure you have extremely good fume
extraction or are in a well ventilated space' again. :-)

On Oct 16, 11:08 am, Theo Markettos theom
wrote:

I just want something for beefy jobs.

I made a solder pot that sits on a solid stove element:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2yyqq6w.jpg

Why don't you clip the batteries into battery holders?

On Oct 15, 11:08*pm, Theo Markettos theom
wrote:
I need to solder to the ends of some D cell NiMHs. *I know you're not
supposed to solder to batteries, but they have no tabs and welding them
isn't an option. *After some experimentation I'm happy that I can do it
without overheating them if I have a large enough source of heat so I can
do each job quickly (less than a second on each end).

I have a '150W' soldering gun. *However it's pathetic. *It takes maybe a
minute of holding the trigger to warm up, and is incapable of melting 3mm
thick leaded solder (just makes it soft like toffee). *It can just about
solder the batteries, but any time I want to put it down it needs a few
minutes to warm again. *I put it on a power meter and it's taking 60W in
heat-from-cold no-load mode, so clearly something is very wrong. *I've tried
cleaning up the electrode terminals - helps for a minute or so but then they
oxidise again and performance gets worse. *A new tip hasn't improved it..
I'm also not terribly happy with the way its performance depends on what
metal is across the tip - put a blob of solder across the end, the
resistance goes down and so the heating moves to the terminals and not the
tip. *Sounds like I was ripped off for the 2 pounds I paid for it

So I've been wondering about another iron. *Alternatives seem to be a
100Wish 'conventional' pencil-type soldering iron, or a gas flame thing. *I
already have a 45W temperature controlled iron for the small stuff, so I
just want something for beefy jobs. *I'm unlikely to be soldering pipes, but
will use it general metalwork (not necessarily electrical). *Something
relatively crude is fine - don't need temperature control etc etc. *I know
where I am with pencil irons, but have no experience of gas.

So any suggestions for what sort of iron to buy?

Thanks
Theo

The most likely candidate would be an old 65w or more Solon soldering
iron. Good for a variety of medium heavy soldering jobs, and often
last a life time.


NT

In article
,
Matty F wrote:
On Oct 16, 11:08 am, Theo Markettos theom
wrote:

I just want something for beefy jobs.

I made a solder pot that sits on a solid stove element:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2yyqq6w.jpg

Why don't you clip the batteries into battery holders?

No use for high current apps. Like rechargeables are often used for.

--
*I want it all and I want it delivered

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
NT wrote:
The most likely candidate would be an old 65w or more Solon soldering
iron. Good for a variety of medium heavy soldering jobs, and often
last a life time.

Technology has moved on a long way from then. My 50 watt low voltage
temperature controlled iron will easily do what those could.

The only time a large wattage old fashioned iron is useful is for
continuous use like soldering tinplate.

--
*Two many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Oct 16, 11:15*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *NT wrote:

The most likely candidate would be an old 65w or more Solon soldering
iron. Good for a variety of medium heavy soldering jobs, and often
last a life time.

Technology has moved on a long way from then. My 50 watt low voltage
temperature controlled iron will easily do what those could.

The only time a large wattage old fashioned iron is useful is for
continuous use like soldering tinplate.

Yes, its moved on, but theyre still perfectly good for what they were
intended.


NT

In article
,
NT wrote:
The most likely candidate would be an old 65w or more Solon soldering
iron. Good for a variety of medium heavy soldering jobs, and often
last a life time.

Technology has moved on a long way from then. My 50 watt low voltage
temperature controlled iron will easily do what those could.

The only time a large wattage old fashioned iron is useful is for
continuous use like soldering tinplate.

Yes, its moved on, but theyre still perfectly good for what they were
intended.

But no use for other smaller stuff - whereas a temperature controlled low
voltage one is. Simply by swapping bits.

I've got a couple of those lying around somewhere totally unused. Unlike
other tools which do get used once in a while.

--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Oct 16, 11:19*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *NT wrote:

The most likely candidate would be an old 65w or more Solon soldering
iron. Good for a variety of medium heavy soldering jobs, and often
last a life time.

Technology has moved on a long way from then. My 50 watt low voltage
temperature controlled iron will easily do what those could.

The only time a large wattage old fashioned iron is useful is for
continuous use like soldering tinplate.
Yes, its moved on, but theyre still perfectly good for what they were
intended.

But no use for other smaller stuff - whereas a temperature controlled low
voltage one is. Simply by swapping bits.

I've got a couple of those lying around somewhere totally unused. Unlike
other tools which do get used once in a while.

Tempco has certainly extended what small irons will do, but in the end
theyre only 40 or 50w with a small bit. The old Solons are 60 to over
100w, so will do bigger workpieces.


NT

In article
,
NT wrote:
Tempco has certainly extended what small irons will do, but in the end
theyre only 40 or 50w with a small bit. The old Solons are 60 to over
100w, so will do bigger workpieces.

There is no comparison between an old Solon and a decent modern iron in
terms of how much heat it gets to where it's needed. Solons had a vast
area which conducted heat away from the tip. A decent modern iron a
fraction of that. You can tell by how long it takes to get it up to
temperature.
And a decent low voltage make will have a variety of bits available
including larger ones.

As I said if you are regularly soldering large areas like tinplate or
brass they still have their uses. But not for what most people solder
these days.

--
*I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15/10/11 23:08, Theo Markettos wrote:
I need to solder to the ends of some D cell NiMHs.

Have you considered buying them tagged?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/nicd-recharg...tteries-225150


--
Bernard Peek

NT writes:

On Oct 16, 11:15=A0am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
=A0 =A0NT wrote:

The most likely candidate would be an old 65w or more Solon soldering
iron. Good for a variety of medium heavy soldering jobs, and often
last a life time.

Technology has moved on a long way from then. My 50 watt low voltage
temperature controlled iron will easily do what those could.

The only time a large wattage old fashioned iron is useful is for
continuous use like soldering tinplate.

Yes, its moved on, but theyre still perfectly good for what they were
intended.

I once soldered large sheets of stainless steel (to line an odd-sized
shower which kept leaking in a variety of ways regardless of which
tradesman tried expensively to stop the leaks) using some flux too
dangerous to be still available to ordinary people like myself, plus a
75 watt iron run off a step-up autotransformer to increase the voltage
from 240 to about 300 (miraculously, both it and the transformer
survived the abuse).

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

In article
,
NT wrote:
The most likely candidate would be an old 65w or more Solon soldering
iron. Good for a variety of medium heavy soldering jobs, and often
last a life time.

Technology has moved on a long way from then. My 50 watt low voltage
temperature controlled iron will easily do what those could.

The only time a large wattage old fashioned iron is useful is for
continuous use like soldering tinplate.

Yes, its moved on, but theyre still perfectly good for what they were
intended.

But no use for other smaller stuff - whereas a temperature controlled low
voltage one is. Simply by swapping bits.

I've got a couple of those lying around somewhere totally unused. Unlike
other tools which do get used once in a while.

There was once a design for a home-brew temperature controller for
soldering irons.
It sensed the resistance of the iron's heating element, which is of
course temperature dependent.
(I think it did this using a triac which didn't turn on until the mains
sine wave had risen to several volts, allowing another part of the
circuit to quickly measure the resistance).
Quite possibly commercially-available irons use the same principle.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

Bernard Peek wrote:
On 15/10/11 23:08, Theo Markettos wrote:
I need to solder to the ends of some D cell NiMHs.

Have you considered buying them tagged?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/nicd-recharg...tteries-225150

Yes. They were three times the price. Not an option when you're
buying 20 cells

Theo

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
Matty F wrote:
Why don't you clip the batteries into battery holders?

No use for high current apps. Like rechargeables are often used for.

And no good for any kind of vibration, especially when they'll be used
outside.

Theo

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
A 45W iron is more than enough to solder the batteries, but the
heat capacity of the bit is more important than the power.

With a temperature controlled iron, I would use 800F which would
do the job in a fraction of a second. Counter intuitively, the
high temperature means you can solder much faster, and get less
heat passed into the object. The power of the iron is irrelvant,
it's the heat capacity of the bit which matters for this sort of
thing.

Thanks. It's a Weller TCP, the one with the magnetically controlled
thermostat, on the standard 700F bit. So I think I'll invest in some 800
and 900F bits.

FWIW I'm not using unleaded solder... when I'm doing unleaded electronics
work (on digital controlled irons) I find that I need at least 425C
(ie 780F) to get anywhere at all. Some fine work recently I needed 460C.
The higher temperatures really did make the job easier.

Theo

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The standard tool for this is a hammer (double) headed tip that goes on
e.g. a weller. Its a massive copper bolt and takes an age to heat up,

When its hot you put the cells end to end in a spring loaded tray
and,after tinning the facing ends, Insert the hammaerr head between the
and when molten both sides, remove it and the springs (or a fast hand)
slaps the cells together.

I saw one of those on a how-to-solder-cells youtube video... I think someone
had made their own. Looks useful, but my pack is only one cell thick so I
need to solder strips between cells. Chopped up bean tins seem to do the
job well enough - with plenty of flux and making sure everything is tinned
beforehand.

If OTOH you are NOT making up series packs just go for am iron with a
LARGE tip. Or one you can add a large tip too..the thermal mass is what
you want.

I think I'll give one of these a go:
http://onecall.farnell.com/jsp/searc...jsp?sku=416472

(that's the biggest available tip for my iron, in 900degF flavour)

Ultimately its best to spot weld to nickel cells if you can find someone
to do it, but most people in the RC world have successfully soldered
cells with a hot iron a big tip and a bit of skill.

I started practicing with dead alkaline AAs from the recycling box, and have
now graduated to zinc carbon Ds from Poundland. I think I've mostly got the
technique now, but the Ds need a fair bit more heating (perhaps more than
NiMHs owing to the big zinc case, I don't know).

Theo

Theo Markettos wrote:
I need to solder to the ends of some D cell NiMHs. I know you're not
supposed to solder to batteries, but they have no tabs and welding them
isn't an option. After some experimentation I'm happy that I can do it
without overheating them if I have a large enough source of heat so I can
do each job quickly (less than a second on each end).

I have a '150W' soldering gun. However it's pathetic. It takes maybe a
minute of holding the trigger to warm up, and is incapable of melting 3mm
thick leaded solder (just makes it soft like toffee). It can just about
solder the batteries, but any time I want to put it down it needs a few
minutes to warm again. I put it on a power meter and it's taking 60W in
heat-from-cold no-load mode, so clearly something is very wrong. I've tried
cleaning up the electrode terminals - helps for a minute or so but then they
oxidise again and performance gets worse. A new tip hasn't improved it.
I'm also not terribly happy with the way its performance depends on what
metal is across the tip - put a blob of solder across the end, the
resistance goes down and so the heating moves to the terminals and not the
tip. Sounds like I was ripped off for the 2 pounds I paid for it

So I've been wondering about another iron. Alternatives seem to be a
100Wish 'conventional' pencil-type soldering iron, or a gas flame thing. I
already have a 45W temperature controlled iron for the small stuff, so I
just want something for beefy jobs. I'm unlikely to be soldering pipes, but
will use it general metalwork (not necessarily electrical). Something
relatively crude is fine - don't need temperature control etc etc. I know
where I am with pencil irons, but have no experience of gas.

So any suggestions for what sort of iron to buy?

Thanks
Theo


There used to be an iron called scope (may still get them)it had a small
copper tip it had a ring or button on the handle that pushed a carbon
tip to contact the copper. It was supplied by a 3 volt 30 amp
transformer and if you held the thing on too long the tip glowed

In article ,
Windmill wrote:
There was once a design for a home-brew temperature controller for
soldering irons.
It sensed the resistance of the iron's heating element, which is of
course temperature dependent.
(I think it did this using a triac which didn't turn on until the mains
sine wave had risen to several volts, allowing another part of the
circuit to quickly measure the resistance).
Quite possibly commercially-available irons use the same principle.

My no longer new low voltage Antex has a separate sensor. So four wires
(plus ground) in the flex.

--
*If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple of payments *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Theo Markettos writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
A 45W iron is more than enough to solder the batteries, but the
heat capacity of the bit is more important than the power.

With a temperature controlled iron, I would use 800F which would
do the job in a fraction of a second. Counter intuitively, the
high temperature means you can solder much faster, and get less
heat passed into the object. The power of the iron is irrelvant,
it's the heat capacity of the bit which matters for this sort of
thing.

Thanks. It's a Weller TCP, the one with the magnetically controlled
thermostat, on the standard 700F bit. So I think I'll invest in some 800
and 900F bits.

Ah, same as mine (mine's 50W, which I think is older - bought it in
1980 IIRC, one of the best tool purchases I have ever made). I always
use the 800F bits, even for delicate electronics, and that's lead/tin
solder too (most of my component stock predates lead-free).

FWIW I'm not using unleaded solder... when I'm doing unleaded electronics
work (on digital controlled irons) I find that I need at least 425C
(ie 780F) to get anywhere at all. Some fine work recently I needed 460C.
The higher temperatures really did make the job easier.

Yes, although I've never tried 900F.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Thanks. It's a Weller TCP, the one with the magnetically controlled
thermostat, on the standard 700F bit. So I think I'll invest in some
800 and 900F bits.

Ah, same as mine (mine's 50W, which I think is older - bought it in
1980 IIRC, one of the best tool purchases I have ever made). I always
use the 800F bits, even for delicate electronics, and that's lead/tin
solder too (most of my component stock predates lead-free).

I run my Antex at 400C - and that's at the upper end of what I need for
60/40.

I did try lead free and gave up with it in short order. Long before it was
realised all the problems it causes.

--
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Thanks. It's a Weller TCP, the one with the magnetically controlled
thermostat, on the standard 700F bit. So I think I'll invest in some
800 and 900F bits.

Ah, same as mine (mine's 50W, which I think is older - bought it in
1980 IIRC, one of the best tool purchases I have ever made). I always
use the 800F bits, even for delicate electronics, and that's lead/tin
solder too (most of my component stock predates lead-free).

I run my Antex at 400C - and that's at the upper end of what I need for
60/40.

I did try lead free and gave up with it in short order. Long before it was
realised all the problems it causes.

Must admit I've never used lead-free electrical solder, but that's
partly because I've read all the problems it causes, and as I said,
my component stock is mainly leaded.

I do use both lead-free and leaded solder for plumbing, and can't
claim to have noticed much difference in use.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Must admit I've never used lead-free electrical solder, but that's
partly because I've read all the problems it causes, and as I said,
my component stock is mainly leaded.

It's not harder to use as such, just different. You need to get the hang of
how to use it. Things like solder paste only come in unleaded versions
these days.

I do use both lead-free and leaded solder for plumbing, and can't
claim to have noticed much difference in use.

If you don't get it hot enough, unleaded looks like it's melting but flows
badly. So the main thing is to have a hot enough iron and sufficient flux.
I'm not sure if the unleaded stuff has less added flux, or if the flux
evaporates too quick at the highest temperature. Extra flux plus a flux
clean session afterwards does help (solder paste seems to be about 75% flux,
so maybe that's why it works so well but leaves huge deposits behind).

I've now got the 900F bit for my iron, and have been doing some test battery
soldering. It seems to be doing the trick nicely - soldering zinc-carbon Ds
is quite quick and straightforward. It struggled a bit on tinning a bean
can - not surprising when the workpiece is one big heatsink - but managed it
OK with some patience. It oxidises scarily quickly and generally gets
worryingly hot when you aren't using it, so it's important to switch it off
if you aren't going to be using it for a few mins or more. In all cases
plenty of flux makes a world of difference.

Theo

In article , Theo Markettos
scribeth thus
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Must admit I've never used lead-free electrical solder, but that's
partly because I've read all the problems it causes, and as I said,
my component stock is mainly leaded.

It's not harder to use as such, just different. You need to get the hang of
how to use it. Things like solder paste only come in unleaded versions
these days.
Theo

Spawn of Satan lead free solder. Ever heard of Tin Whiskers?..
--
Tony Sayer

On Oct 22, 7:01*pm, Theo Markettos
wrote:

It's not harder to use as such, just different. *You need to get the hang of
how to use it. *Things like solder paste only come in unleaded versions
these days.

Lead free solder sucks and fortunately the lead-tin form is still
available, even as pastes for SMT work.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:59:16 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Oct 22, 7:01*pm, Theo Markettos
wrote:

It's not harder to use as such, just different. *You need to get the hang of
how to use it. *Things like solder paste only come in unleaded versions
these days.

Lead free solder sucks and fortunately the lead-tin form is still
available, even as pastes for SMT work.

Maplin don't stock 'proper' lead/tin solder, nor do B&Q now.

Fortunately I still have enough in stock from working days to see me
out :-)

--
Frank Erskine

In article ,
Frank Erskine wrote:
Maplin don't stock 'proper' lead/tin solder, nor do B&Q now.

Fortunately I still have enough in stock from working days to see me
out :-)

I only buy it in decent sized reels and all the proper electronics
suppliers have a variety of lead solder.

--
*Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.