Arggh, what is it with these smoke alarm that the blasted regulations
insist that you fit by the dozen in your house?

When we had the (bungalow) extension two years ago the electrician
fitted a fire alarm in the kitchen and two ionisation smoke alarms in
the hall corridor. The two smoke alarms are less than twelve feet apart
for a start, which just seems utterly ridiculous. It's not that much
further between the kitchen alarm and the first hall alarm.

I believe the three alarms, all mains wired, are linked together (at
least I think they are, they're so noisy you can't actually tell which
ones are sounding).

I soon discovered that making pancakes (!) made the alarms go off. How
pathetic.

That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and they're
just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than a security
measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

In the end, I just put the dust covers on the two ionisation alarms in
the hall and left only the kitchen flame alarm active.

But then, what do I find? I find that the damned things start bleeping
at me! Yes, they may be mains powered, but rather than having integral
rechargeable back-up batteries (like a computer, or whatever) they've
got alkaline PP3 batteries which need replacing.

What an absolute joke. Is that what our 21st century technology has
produced? Smoke alarms which firstly go off when they shouldn't, and
secondly, despite being powered by the mains, require the user to change
an alkaline battery every two years?

I've just pulled the hall ionisation alarms off their mountings, removed
the PP3 batteries and put them in the dining room. I think I'll have
some fun with a club hammer in the morning...

Michael

On Oct 12, 9:24*pm, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
Arggh, what is it with these smoke alarm that the blasted regulations
insist that you fit by the dozen in your house?

When we had the (bungalow) extension two years ago the electrician
fitted a fire alarm in the kitchen and two ionisation smoke alarms in
the hall corridor. The two smoke alarms are less than twelve feet apart
for a start, which just seems utterly ridiculous. It's not that much
further between the kitchen alarm and the first hall alarm.

I believe the three alarms, all mains wired, are linked together (at
least I think they are, they're so noisy you can't actually tell which
ones are sounding).

I soon discovered that making pancakes (!) made the alarms go off. How
pathetic.

That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and they're
just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than a security
measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

In the end, I just put the dust covers on the two ionisation alarms in
the hall and left only the kitchen flame alarm active.

But then, what do I find? I find that the damned things start bleeping
at me! Yes, they may be mains powered, but rather than having integral
rechargeable back-up batteries (like a computer, or whatever) they've
got alkaline PP3 batteries which need replacing.

What an absolute joke. Is that what our 21st century technology has
produced? Smoke alarms which firstly go off when they shouldn't, and
secondly, despite being powered by the mains, require the user to change
an alkaline battery every two years?

I've just pulled the hall ionisation alarms off their mountings, removed
the PP3 batteries and put them in the dining room. I think I'll have
some fun with a club hammer in the morning...

Michael

If electrician fitted a smoke not a Heat alarm in kitchen, that could
explain that problem.
(Shouldn't be over the cooker though or sink).

Smoke alarms are dumb and can't differentiate between smoke/steam;
however if he fitted cheaper
Ionisation alarms, they are far more prone to be effected by steam.
Replace with optical models.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Manufact...dde/index.html
Regards battery changing buy ones with Rechargeable back up that last
for 10 years ie life of alarm.

Gel wrote:
On Oct 12, 9:24 pm, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
Arggh, what is it with these smoke alarm that the blasted regulations
insist that you fit by the dozen in your house?

When we had the (bungalow) extension two years ago the electrician
fitted a fire alarm in the kitchen and two ionisation smoke alarms in
the hall corridor. The two smoke alarms are less than twelve feet
apart for a start, which just seems utterly ridiculous. It's not
that much further between the kitchen alarm and the first hall alarm.

I believe the three alarms, all mains wired, are linked together (at
least I think they are, they're so noisy you can't actually tell
which ones are sounding).

I soon discovered that making pancakes (!) made the alarms go off.
How pathetic.

That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and
they're just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than
a security measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

In the end, I just put the dust covers on the two ionisation alarms
in the hall and left only the kitchen flame alarm active.

But then, what do I find? I find that the damned things start
bleeping at me! Yes, they may be mains powered, but rather than
having integral rechargeable back-up batteries (like a computer, or
whatever) they've got alkaline PP3 batteries which need replacing.

What an absolute joke. Is that what our 21st century technology has
produced? Smoke alarms which firstly go off when they shouldn't, and
secondly, despite being powered by the mains, require the user to
change an alkaline battery every two years?

I've just pulled the hall ionisation alarms off their mountings,
removed the PP3 batteries and put them in the dining room. I think
I'll have some fun with a club hammer in the morning...

Michael

If electrician fitted a smoke not a Heat alarm in kitchen, that could
explain that problem.
(Shouldn't be over the cooker though or sink).

Smoke alarms are dumb and can't differentiate between smoke/steam;
however if he fitted cheaper
Ionisation alarms, they are far more prone to be effected by steam.
Replace with optical models.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Manufact...dde/index.html
Regards battery changing buy ones with Rechargeable back up that last
for 10 years ie life of alarm.


Optical detectors are more likely to be triggered by steam than ionisation
detectors.

--
Adam

In message , Michael
Kilpatrick writes
Arggh, what is it with these smoke alarm that the blasted regulations
insist that you fit by the dozen in your house?

When we had the (bungalow) extension two years ago the electrician
fitted a fire alarm in the kitchen and two ionisation smoke alarms in
the hall corridor. The two smoke alarms are less than twelve feet apart
for a start, which just seems utterly ridiculous. It's not that much
further between the kitchen alarm and the first hall alarm.

I believe the three alarms, all mains wired, are linked together (at
least I think they are, they're so noisy you can't actually tell which
ones are sounding).

I soon discovered that making pancakes (!) made the alarms go off. How
pathetic.

That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and they're
just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than a security
measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

In the end, I just put the dust covers on the two ionisation alarms in
the hall and left only the kitchen flame alarm active.

But then, what do I find? I find that the damned things start bleeping
at me! Yes, they may be mains powered, but rather than having integral
rechargeable back-up batteries (like a computer, or whatever) they've
got alkaline PP3 batteries which need replacing.

What an absolute joke. Is that what our 21st century technology has
produced? Smoke alarms which firstly go off when they shouldn't, and
secondly, despite being powered by the mains, require the user to
change an alkaline battery every two years?

I've just pulled the hall ionisation alarms off their mountings,
removed the PP3 batteries and put them in the dining room. I think I'll
have some fun with a club hammer in the morning...

Michael

Consult out local Fire & rescue service. They will fit the correct
alarms for free.
--
hugh

hugh wrote:


Consult out local Fire & rescue service. They will fit the correct
alarms for free.

I think you'll find they only fit very basic battery jobbies, no
interlinking. They might choose the best sensor type, but the OP could
probably just swap the kitchen one for a heat type (fixed level or rate of
rise) or an ionisation type.

If they are wired interlinked, it's possible they might be a clip-to-base
type so changing the head unit would not even require undoing wires.

In any case, swaps should be of a compatible type - certainly same maker and
double check the series is compatible. 4th wire signalling is not globally
standard as far as I know.

--
Tim Watts

On Oct 12, 9:24*pm, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
Arggh, what is it with these smoke alarm that the blasted regulations
insist that you fit by the dozen in your house?

When we had the (bungalow) extension two years ago the electrician
fitted a fire alarm in the kitchen and two ionisation smoke alarms in
the hall corridor. The two smoke alarms are less than twelve feet apart
for a start, which just seems utterly ridiculous. It's not that much
further between the kitchen alarm and the first hall alarm.

I believe the three alarms, all mains wired, are linked together (at
least I think they are, they're so noisy you can't actually tell which
ones are sounding).

I soon discovered that making pancakes (!) made the alarms go off. How
pathetic.

That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and they're
just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than a security
measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

In the end, I just put the dust covers on the two ionisation alarms in
the hall and left only the kitchen flame alarm active.

But then, what do I find? I find that the damned things start bleeping
at me! Yes, they may be mains powered, but rather than having integral
rechargeable back-up batteries (like a computer, or whatever) they've
got alkaline PP3 batteries which need replacing.

What an absolute joke. Is that what our 21st century technology has
produced? Smoke alarms which firstly go off when they shouldn't, and
secondly, despite being powered by the mains, require the user to change
an alkaline battery every two years?

I've just pulled the hall ionisation alarms off their mountings, removed
the PP3 batteries and put them in the dining room. I think I'll have
some fun with a club hammer in the morning...

Michael

They make a huge difference to survival in fire, so its worth sorting
the system out.

The kitchen alarm should be a heat alarm, not ionisation or optical.
The latter are often trouble in a kitchen. If pancake making is
setting an ionisation alarm off, it means youre heating the oil close
to flashpoint, too hot.
Re batteries, you get what you pay for. Batteries are used in mains
alarms as backup power, as a fire can take out the mains feed to them.
A £1 alkaline battery per 2 years is a tiny price for the many lives
they save, and millions of pounds of property damage they prevent by
early detection. I think you just need to sort your sensor types out.
If you disconect the interconnection you'll soon see which one is
causing false alarms. You might also bill the installer for the new
sensor, since what he installed clearly didnt work ok.

From most to least false alarms: ionisation, optical, dual sensor,
rate of (temperature) rise, fixed temp heat detector.

NT

In article ,
Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and they're
just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than a security
measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

Well... Annoying though it is, IMO the lard in the pan ought to be
"smoking hot" before you pour in the pancake mix...

Gordon

Be careful do they not contain some kind of radioactive isotope?

I just have the one, and even that goes of if I'm doing toast and the
bathroom window is open upstairs. next we will be having to have an air
current survey to see where to put them all.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Michael Kilpatrick" wrote in message
o.uk...
Arggh, what is it with these smoke alarm that the blasted regulations
insist that you fit by the dozen in your house?

When we had the (bungalow) extension two years ago the electrician fitted
a fire alarm in the kitchen and two ionisation smoke alarms in the hall
corridor. The two smoke alarms are less than twelve feet apart for a
start, which just seems utterly ridiculous. It's not that much further
between the kitchen alarm and the first hall alarm.

I believe the three alarms, all mains wired, are linked together (at least
I think they are, they're so noisy you can't actually tell which ones are
sounding).

I soon discovered that making pancakes (!) made the alarms go off. How
pathetic.

That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and they're
just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than a security
measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

In the end, I just put the dust covers on the two ionisation alarms in the
hall and left only the kitchen flame alarm active.

But then, what do I find? I find that the damned things start bleeping at
me! Yes, they may be mains powered, but rather than having integral
rechargeable back-up batteries (like a computer, or whatever) they've got
alkaline PP3 batteries which need replacing.

What an absolute joke. Is that what our 21st century technology has
produced? Smoke alarms which firstly go off when they shouldn't, and
secondly, despite being powered by the mains, require the user to change
an alkaline battery every two years?

I've just pulled the hall ionisation alarms off their mountings, removed
the PP3 batteries and put them in the dining room. I think I'll have some
fun with a club hammer in the morning...

Michael

On 13/10/2011 09:38, Brian Gaff wrote:
Be careful do they not contain some kind of radioactive isotope?

What, the pancakes?

I just have the one,

Ooh, I can never eat just the *one* pancake. I need three, at least.

and even that goes of if I'm doing toast and the
bathroom window is open upstairs. next we will be having to have an air
current survey to see where to put them all.

How bloody ridiculous.

Michael

In article , Michael
Kilpatrick scribeth thus
Arggh, what is it with these smoke alarm that the blasted regulations
insist that you fit by the dozen in your house?

When we had the (bungalow) extension two years ago the electrician
fitted a fire alarm in the kitchen and two ionisation smoke alarms in
the hall corridor. The two smoke alarms are less than twelve feet apart
for a start, which just seems utterly ridiculous. It's not that much
further between the kitchen alarm and the first hall alarm.

I believe the three alarms, all mains wired, are linked together (at
least I think they are, they're so noisy you can't actually tell which
ones are sounding).

No need if its going off its intended to alert the whole house then..



I soon discovered that making pancakes (!) made the alarms go off. How
pathetic.

Wrong type of detector installed there by the sound of it;!...


That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and they're
just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than a security
measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

As above.. rate of rise ones needed there, not smoke ionisation ones..


In the end, I just put the dust covers on the two ionisation alarms in
the hall and left only the kitchen flame alarm active.

But then, what do I find? I find that the damned things start bleeping
at me! Yes, they may be mains powered, but rather than having integral
rechargeable back-up batteries (like a computer, or whatever) they've
got alkaline PP3 batteries which need replacing.

Yes when the power fails as it can do in a house fire..

Change them once a year..


What an absolute joke. Is that what our 21st century technology has
produced? Smoke alarms which firstly go off when they shouldn't, and
secondly, despite being powered by the mains, require the user to change
an alkaline battery every two years?

I've just pulled the hall ionisation alarms off their mountings, removed
the PP3 batteries and put them in the dining room. I think I'll have
some fun with a club hammer in the morning...

Michael



Why not put them all on a bonfire;?..
--
Tony Sayer

On Oct 13, 11:48*am, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Michael
Kilpatrick scribeth thus

Arggh, what is it with these smoke alarm that the blasted regulations
insist that you fit by the dozen in your house?

When we had the (bungalow) extension two years ago the electrician
fitted a fire alarm in the kitchen and two ionisation smoke alarms in
the hall corridor. The two smoke alarms are less than twelve feet apart
for a start, which just seems utterly ridiculous. It's not that much
further between the kitchen alarm and the first hall alarm.

I believe the three alarms, all mains wired, are linked together (at
least I think they are, they're so noisy you can't actually tell which
ones are sounding).

No need if its going off its intended to alert the whole house then..



I soon discovered that making pancakes (!) made the alarms go off. How
pathetic.

Wrong type of detector installed there by the sound of it;!...



That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and they're
just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than a security
measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

As above.. *rate of rise ones needed there, not smoke ionisation ones..



In the end, I just put the dust covers on the two ionisation alarms in
the hall and left only the kitchen flame alarm active.

But then, what do I find? I find that the damned things start bleeping
at me! Yes, they may be mains powered, but rather than having integral
rechargeable back-up batteries (like a computer, or whatever) they've
got alkaline PP3 batteries which need replacing.

Yes when the power fails as it can do in a house fire..

Change them once a year..



What an absolute joke. Is that what our 21st century technology has
produced? Smoke alarms which firstly go off when they shouldn't, and
secondly, despite being powered by the mains, require the user to change
an alkaline battery every two years?

I've just pulled the hall ionisation alarms off their mountings, removed
the PP3 batteries and put them in the dining room. I think I'll have
some fun with a club hammer in the morning...

Don't break up the radioactive source.

Robert

Brian Gaff wrote:

Be careful do they not contain some kind of radioactive isotope?

I just have the one, and even that goes of if I'm doing toast and the
bathroom window is open upstairs. next we will be having to have an air
current survey to see where to put them all.
Brian


Americium 241, around 1uCurie's worth or 0.3ug which is similar to around
200 old throium based gas mantles in Curie terms. And the americium is fully
contained so the risk is next to zero.

--
Tim Watts

"Michael Kilpatrick" wrote in message
o.uk...
Arggh, what is it with these smoke alarm that the blasted regulations
insist that you fit by the dozen in your house?

When we had the (bungalow) extension two years ago the electrician fitted
a fire alarm in the kitchen and two ionisation smoke alarms in the hall
corridor. The two smoke alarms are less than twelve feet apart for a
start, which just seems utterly ridiculous. It's not that much further
between the kitchen alarm and the first hall alarm.

I believe the three alarms, all mains wired, are linked together (at least
I think they are, they're so noisy you can't actually tell which ones are
sounding).

I soon discovered that making pancakes (!) made the alarms go off. How
pathetic.

That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and they're
just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than a security
measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

In the end, I just put the dust covers on the two ionisation alarms in the
hall and left only the kitchen flame alarm active.

But then, what do I find? I find that the damned things start bleeping at
me! Yes, they may be mains powered, but rather than having integral
rechargeable back-up batteries (like a computer, or whatever) they've got
alkaline PP3 batteries which need replacing.

What an absolute joke. Is that what our 21st century technology has
produced? Smoke alarms which firstly go off when they shouldn't, and
secondly, despite being powered by the mains, require the user to change
an alkaline battery every two years?

I've just pulled the hall ionisation alarms off their mountings, removed
the PP3 batteries and put them in the dining room. I think I'll have some
fun with a club hammer in the morning...

Michael

AICO do decent units with good tech support.
I bought 6 units in 2007 and they advised location etc from house plans sent
to them.
They also check out "faulty" units FOC (for first 5 years IIRC) even if the
problem turns out to be dust ingress or spiders' webs.
Their units have rechargable batteries but are certainly not the cheapest
option!

Phil

"NT" wrote in message
...
On Oct 12, 9:24 pm, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
snip
If pancake making is setting an ionisation alarm off, it means youre heating
the oil close to flashpoint, too hot.
snip

There are many styles of cooking which require smoking oil in the pan -
including stir frying.
I assume flambéing which is often featured on cooking programmes would also
set off the less discriminating smoke alarms.
Small amounts of smoking oil are not generally a fire risk.
Deep frying however is another thing entirely.

In our kitchen if we turn the oven up to self clean (which it does by
burning off the splashes on the sides) this also generates enough smoke to
set off the fire alarm in the hall if we have forgotten to close the hall
door.

However we do have a friend who admits to not being the greatest chef in the
world and claims that her kids always new when dinner was ready because the
fire alarm went off ;-)

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 13/10/2011 08:52, NT wrote:


They make a huge difference to survival in fire, so its worth sorting
the system out.

The kitchen alarm should be a heat alarm, not ionisation or optical.

It is. The other two in the hall are ionisation.

The latter are often trouble in a kitchen. If pancake making is
setting an ionisation alarm off, it means youre heating the oil close
to flashpoint, too hot.
Re batteries, you get what you pay for.

Unfortunately nobody asked me what I wanted to pay for - which I resent
even more. I don't buy cheap **** when I buy something myself (assuming
I know how to differentiate for the particular type of product, of
course). The electricians just shoved in three alarms before I knew what
it was all about.
Batteries are used in mains
alarms as backup power, as a fire can take out the mains feed to them.
A £1 alkaline battery per 2 years is a tiny price for the many lives
they save, and millions of pounds of property damage they prevent by
early detection.

Yes, maybe, but it's still ****. I'm not interested in anything that
beeps every two years. Ten years, maybe, for the failure of an integral
rechargeable battery.

Michael

On Oct 13, 4:16*pm, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
On 13/10/2011 08:52, NT wrote:



They make a huge difference to survival in fire, so its worth sorting
the system out.

The kitchen alarm should be a heat alarm, not ionisation or optical.

It is. The other two in the hall are ionisation.

Presumably its an ionisation alarm going off then. I'd replace them
with opticals, or if you've got 2 in a corridor it might be fine to
simply disconnect the one nearer the kitchen.


The latter are often trouble in a kitchen. If pancake making is
setting an ionisation alarm off, it means youre heating the oil close
to flashpoint, too hot.
Re batteries, you get what you pay for.

Unfortunately nobody asked me what I wanted to pay for - which I resent
even more. I don't buy cheap **** when I buy something myself (assuming
I know how to differentiate for the particular type of product, of
course). The electricians just shoved in three alarms before I knew what
it was all about.

Batteries are used in mains
alarms as backup power, as a fire can take out the mains feed to them.
A £1 alkaline battery per 2 years is a tiny price for the many lives
they save, and millions of pounds of property damage they prevent by
early detection.

Yes, maybe, but it's still ****. I'm not interested in anything that
beeps every two years. Ten years, maybe, for the failure of an integral
rechargeable battery.

Michael

You could replace it with a lithium 9v battery. Not cheap, but you
should get your 10 years.


NT

NT wrote:
On Oct 13, 4:16 pm, Michael Kilpatrick
wrote:
On 13/10/2011 08:52, NT wrote:



They make a huge difference to survival in fire, so its worth
sorting the system out.

The kitchen alarm should be a heat alarm, not ionisation or optical.

It is. The other two in the hall are ionisation.

Presumably its an ionisation alarm going off then. I'd replace them
with opticals, or if you've got 2 in a corridor it might be fine to
simply disconnect the one nearer the kitchen.


I would start by swapping the one in the hall that is nearest to kitchen to
an optical one.


--
Adam

hugh wrote:
In message ,
Michael Kilpatrick writes
Arggh, what is it with these smoke alarm that the blasted regulations
insist that you fit by the dozen in your house?

When we had the (bungalow) extension two years ago the electrician
fitted a fire alarm in the kitchen and two ionisation smoke alarms in
the hall corridor. The two smoke alarms are less than twelve feet
apart for a start, which just seems utterly ridiculous. It's not
that much further between the kitchen alarm and the first hall alarm.

I believe the three alarms, all mains wired, are linked together (at
least I think they are, they're so noisy you can't actually tell
which ones are sounding).

I soon discovered that making pancakes (!) made the alarms go off.
How pathetic.

That in itself is bad enough - I mean, all that technology and
they're just absolutely useless, being more a pain in the neck than
a security measure. Pancakes? What smoke, pray tell me?

In the end, I just put the dust covers on the two ionisation alarms
in the hall and left only the kitchen flame alarm active.

But then, what do I find? I find that the damned things start
bleeping at me! Yes, they may be mains powered, but rather than
having integral rechargeable back-up batteries (like a computer, or
whatever) they've got alkaline PP3 batteries which need replacing.

What an absolute joke. Is that what our 21st century technology has
produced? Smoke alarms which firstly go off when they shouldn't, and
secondly, despite being powered by the mains, require the user to
change an alkaline battery every two years?

I've just pulled the hall ionisation alarms off their mountings,
removed the PP3 batteries and put them in the dining room. I think
I'll have some fun with a club hammer in the morning...

Michael

Consult out local Fire & rescue service. They will fit the correct
alarms for free.

But maybe not in the correct place.

The battery ones they fitted at a house the other day contradicted all the
advice in BS5839-6 2008 and the building regs guidelines. I have made an
appointment to see the fire officer as I want to know why the smoke are
placed where they are.

--
Adam