A family friend wants an extension. He also wants me to do the electrics and
my mate to do the plumbing. We have both worked at his house before.

The first 2 builders have refused to quote without plumbing and electrics
being included in the quote. I have a couple of builders that I do work for
who will quote but I did not want the friend to be pushed into using my
recommendations.

So are builders that busy?

--
Adam

On Sep 14, 4:36*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

So are builders that busy?

Our local jobbing builders are rushed off their feet. Much of the
competition has gone bankrupt, people who can't move are building all
manner of fecking ugly abominations into their loftspaces now that
planning has been abandoned in favour of "localism" and there's a boom
market in building gated compounds of granny flats. Compared to two
years ago, they're certainly busy.

The biggest problem for builders locally seems to be getting paid. One
of our locals is likely to go bust in a few weeks, as he's not going
to get paid by a developer that folded recently.

ARWadsworth wrote:

So are builders that busy?

Seem to be, a friend in sheffield want an extension, must have had 4-5
round but none have got back with a quote yet despite sounding keen at
the time, and being chased ... if they don't want the work, why not
either say so, or if they're busy say so? Or at least give a ****-off
quote at triple the going rate.

On Sep 14, 5:38 pm, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
Andy Dingley wrote:

Our local jobbing builders are rushed off their feet. Much of the
competition has gone bankrupt, people who can't move are building all
manner of fecking ugly abominations into their loftspaces now that
planning has been abandoned in favour of "localism" and there's a boom
market in building gated compounds of granny flats.

What makes you think planning has been abandoned? Just a proposal at
this point AFAIK.

presume he may be referring to the rise in "hideously home-designed"
loft conversion/big dormer nonsenses since the new PD scheme came in?

Jim K

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:36:26 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:

A family friend wants an extension. He also wants me to do the electrics
and my mate to do the plumbing. We have both worked at his house before.

The first 2 builders have refused to quote without plumbing and
electrics being included in the quote. I have a couple of builders that
I do work for who will quote but I did not want the friend to be pushed
into using my recommendations.

So are builders that busy?

We wanted a little patio work done earlier this year - turned out to be
£800 worth. Called around. Had 3 different people say they would come
round to quote. None did. The fourth quoted (£1,000) but phoned up the
week before we'd agreed saying he'd had a job overrun, and couldn't get
back to us till November ... OK we got the message.

In the end, a chap who drinks in the Mrs local stepped in - nice work.
Turned up on time.

I do wonder how bad this "recession" is. We're now trying to replace our
cleaner (the previous one had to pack it in as they couldn't get the
staff). Once again, messages left, no return calls, and (so far) one
missed appointment for a quote.

On 14/09/2011 16:36, ARWadsworth wrote:
A family friend wants an extension. He also wants me to do the electrics and
my mate to do the plumbing. We have both worked at his house before.

The first 2 builders have refused to quote without plumbing and electrics
being included in the quote. I have a couple of builders that I do work for
who will quote but I did not want the friend to be pushed into using my
recommendations.

So are builders that busy?

The builders you know also know your work, while the others don't. I
can't say I blame them for being cautious about the customer having a
friend in to do part of the job.

Colin Bignell

On Sep 14, 4:36*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
A family friend wants an extension. He also wants me to do the electrics and
my mate to do the plumbing. We have both worked at his house before.

The first 2 builders have refused to quote without plumbing and electrics
being included in the quote. I have a couple of builders that I do work for
who will quote but I did not want the friend to be pushed into using my
recommendations.

So are builders that busy?

Yet another reason to diy. At a fraction the cost, with better finish,
more solidly done, much longer lasting, and all exactly how you want
it, complete with your custom specials that no builder wuold do.


NT

ARWadsworth wrote:
A family friend wants an extension. He also wants me to do the
electrics and my mate to do the plumbing. We have both worked at his
house before.
The first 2 builders have refused to quote without plumbing and
electrics being included in the quote. I have a couple of builders
that I do work for who will quote but I did not want the friend to be
pushed into using my recommendations.

So are builders that busy?

Not really AFAIK, but having several unknowns thrust upon you when you are
busy trying to arrange work, materials, site visits and everything else is a
pain in the arse of the highest order.
Most builders use the same sparks and plumbers on a regular basis (as you
know) and don't want to price a job, then find half way through that they
can't continue for a week or two because one or the other, or both are away
on holiday or on another job just when the first fixings need putting in.

The householder couldn't give a **** as it's not costing him any more or any
less.

You'd be better off telling the friend to tell prospective builders that
they can quote for the electrics and plumbing, but that they want you two to
do the work and to contact you to arrange pricings and timings etc, I can't
see that anyone would have any problems with this.

On 14/09/2011 17:38, Tim Streater wrote:

What makes you think planning has been abandoned? Just a proposal at
this point AFAIK.


Planners have been "instructed" to behave as if the new regulations are
already in force.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cou...-in-force.html

Another Dave

On Sep 14, 5:38*pm, Tim Streater wrote:

What makes you think planning has been abandoned? Just a proposal at
this point AFAIK.

Barely a bungalow left locally ('20s ribbon development) that hasn't
either had, or is having, its roof ripped off to stick two rooms up
there with dormers. Those done in recent years have used Velux and
kept the original roofline, now we're seeing dormers the size of
cowsheds.

Also because I **** with the local **** ** who **** **** funny
handshake **** ***** and *** has got the whole village up in arms
about **** **** who has *** the *** village pub.

(Blanks because it's libellous and I have to live here)

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Sep 14, 5:38 pm, Tim Streater wrote:

What makes you think planning has been abandoned? Just a proposal at
this point AFAIK.

Barely a bungalow left locally ('20s ribbon development) that hasn't
either had, or is having, its roof ripped off to stick two rooms up
there with dormers. Those done in recent years have used Velux and
kept the original roofline, now we're seeing dormers the size of
cowsheds.

Also because I **** with the local **** ** who **** **** funny
handshake **** ***** and *** has got the whole village up in arms
about **** **** who has *** the *** village pub.

(Blanks because it's libellous and I have to live here)

I work practically opposite the United Grand [masonic] Lodge of England. Saw
lots of suited blokes coming out today - all I could think was "funny
handshake".

--
Tim Watts

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Andy Dingley wrote:

On Sep 14, 5:38 pm, Tim Streater wrote:

What makes you think planning has been abandoned? Just a proposal
at
this point AFAIK.

Barely a bungalow left locally ('20s ribbon development) that
hasn't
either had, or is having, its roof ripped off to stick two rooms
up
there with dormers. Those done in recent years have used Velux and
kept the original roofline, now we're seeing dormers the size of
cowsheds.

Also because I **** with the local **** ** who **** **** funny
handshake **** ***** and *** has got the whole village up in arms
about **** **** who has *** the *** village pub.

(Blanks because it's libellous and I have to live here)

I work practically opposite the United Grand [masonic] Lodge of
England. Saw
lots of suited blokes coming out today - all I could think was
"funny
handshake".

--
Tim Watts

Very impressive place inside if you get the chance to see it Tim

AWEM

On Sep 15, 7:30 am, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message

...



Andy Dingley wrote:

On Sep 14, 5:38 pm, Tim Streater wrote:

What makes you think planning has been abandoned? Just a proposal
at
this point AFAIK.

Barely a bungalow left locally ('20s ribbon development) that
hasn't
either had, or is having, its roof ripped off to stick two rooms
up
there with dormers. Those done in recent years have used Velux and
kept the original roofline, now we're seeing dormers the size of
cowsheds.

Also because I **** with the local **** ** who **** **** funny
handshake **** ***** and *** has got the whole village up in arms
about **** **** who has *** the *** village pub.

(Blanks because it's libellous and I have to live here)

I work practically opposite the United Grand [masonic] Lodge of
England. Saw
lots of suited blokes coming out today - all I could think was
"funny
handshake".

--
Tim Watts

Very impressive place inside if you get the chance to see it Tim

AWEM

wink wink

;)

Andy Burns wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:

So are builders that busy?

Seem to be, a friend in sheffield want an extension, must have had 4-5
round but none have got back with a quote yet despite sounding keen at
the time, and being chased ... if they don't want the work, why not
either say so, or if they're busy say so? Or at least give a ****-off
quote at triple the going rate.

Proper quotes cost the builder money. But you would have thought that after
being chased they might realise the job is one they might get.

--
Adam

Phil L wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
A family friend wants an extension. He also wants me to do the
electrics and my mate to do the plumbing. We have both worked at his
house before.
The first 2 builders have refused to quote without plumbing and
electrics being included in the quote. I have a couple of builders
that I do work for who will quote but I did not want the friend to be
pushed into using my recommendations.

So are builders that busy?

Not really AFAIK, but having several unknowns thrust upon you when
you are busy trying to arrange work, materials, site visits and
everything else is a pain in the arse of the highest order.
Most builders use the same sparks and plumbers on a regular basis (as
you know) and don't want to price a job, then find half way through
that they can't continue for a week or two because one or the other,
or both are away on holiday or on another job just when the first
fixings need putting in.


A fair point. I work for two builders and they both use me as when their
sparks let them down I turned up that night after work to start their jobs
so they could start boarding out the next day.

The householder couldn't give a **** as it's not costing him any more
or any less.

I suspect that there will be the usual "I'll need to change the fuse box"
lies.

You'd be better off telling the friend to tell prospective builders
that they can quote for the electrics and plumbing, but that they
want you two to do the work and to contact you to arrange pricings
and timings etc, I can't see that anyone would have any problems with
this.

Well builder no 1 says he can start next week so he seems not to have much
work on:-)

--
Adam

Nightjar wrote:
On 14/09/2011 16:36, ARWadsworth wrote:
A family friend wants an extension. He also wants me to do the
electrics and my mate to do the plumbing. We have both worked at his
house before. The first 2 builders have refused to quote without plumbing
and
electrics being included in the quote. I have a couple of builders
that I do work for who will quote but I did not want the friend to
be pushed into using my recommendations.

So are builders that busy?

The builders you know also know your work, while the others don't. I
can't say I blame them for being cautious about the customer having a
friend in to do part of the job.

Reminds me a previous builder I worked for. There were a few problems with
the electrics (ie a nail through a cable) and the owner of the house said
"I'm knocking the repairs to the plaster off your £800 bill.".

I had only charged the builder £500.

--
Adam

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:18:19 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

ARWadsworth wrote:

So are builders that busy?

Seem to be, a friend in sheffield want an extension, must have had 4-5
round but none have got back with a quote yet despite sounding keen at
the time, and being chased ... if they don't want the work, why not
either say so, or if they're busy say so? Or at least give a ****-off
quote at triple the going rate.

Same with plumbers, electricians. I can't even get anyone to quote to
replace a bathroom.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On 16 Sep 2011 10:57:00 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2011-09-16, Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:18:19 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

ARWadsworth wrote:

So are builders that busy?

Seem to be, a friend in sheffield want an extension, must have had 4-5
round but none have got back with a quote yet despite sounding keen at
the time, and being chased ... if they don't want the work, why not
either say so, or if they're busy say so? Or at least give a ****-off
quote at triple the going rate.

Same with plumbers, electricians. I can't even get anyone to quote to
replace a bathroom.

Huge's Rule of halves;

Half the tradesmen won't return your call
Half of those who return your call won't turn up to give an estimate
Half of those who turn up won't actually send an estimate
Half of those estimates will be nonsense

So, to get a job done, you need to call at least 16 tradespeople.

Using your rule I should have received at least 1 quote/estimate since
I contacted at least 8 and 2 or 3 showed up. All of them made an
appointment to inspect the bathroom.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:57:00 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2011-09-16, Mark wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:18:19 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

ARWadsworth wrote:

So are builders that busy?

Seem to be, a friend in sheffield want an extension, must have had 4-5
round but none have got back with a quote yet despite sounding keen at
the time, and being chased ... if they don't want the work, why not
either say so, or if they're busy say so? Or at least give a ****-off
quote at triple the going rate.

Same with plumbers, electricians. I can't even get anyone to quote to
replace a bathroom.

Huge's Rule of halves;

Half the tradesmen won't return your call Half of those who return your
call won't turn up to give an estimate Half of those who turn up won't
actually send an estimate Half of those estimates will be nonsense

So, to get a job done, you need to call at least 16 tradespeople.

There is more truth than you know in that ....

Mark wrote:

Using your rule I should have received at least 1 quote/estimate since
I contacted at least 8 and 2 or 3 showed up. All of them made an
appointment to inspect the bathroom.

Having decided that it was going to be a _big job_ and far beyond
my diy ability, in any reasonable timescale for a house with only
one bathroom, we were surprised how hard it was to persuade firms
even to quote.

As one prerequisite was a large double-ended bath into which we
could both fit, which would itself fit the room available, this
took some finding. Only a few firms would even consider looking
at the job, others wanted us to take their "preferred" solution,
which did not meet any of our criteria.

Having done 3D CAD layouts, to convince ourselves of what was
possible, it was interesting to see the reactions, which ranged
from "that's really good, we ought to get something like that" to
"but that's what *I* do!"

There was a discussion with one guy where I told him that I
accepted his assertion that it was not commercially practicable
for him to do my job as specified and make any money at it, but
he must similarly accept that, for the amount it was going to
cost me, settling for anything less than what we wanted would be
completely pointless, and waste a great deal of money.

In the end we found folk to do the work, got on well with them,
and are very pleased with the end result, which we would not have
achieved without a lot of homework, dogged insistence on what we
wanted, and detail supervision of the execution.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:31:09 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Reminds me a previous builder I worked for. There were a few problems with
the electrics (ie a nail through a cable) and the owner of the house said
"I'm knocking the repairs to the plaster off your £800 bill.".

I had only charged the builder £500.

Did you nail the cable, or was it someone else? I only ask, as it
seems a cheek to expect you to wear the cost of repair if it was
somebody else who damaged it.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:31:09 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:

Reminds me a previous builder I worked for. There were a few
problems with the electrics (ie a nail through a cable) and the
owner of the house said "I'm knocking the repairs to the plaster off
your £800 bill.".

I had only charged the builder £500.

Did you nail the cable, or was it someone else? I only ask, as it
seems a cheek to expect you to wear the cost of repair if it was
somebody else who damaged it.

The builder used a nail, just below the socket to fasten the skirting board
to the wall.


--
Adam