A friend has a plumber fitting a Power Shower in place of an electric
shower.

The plumber is going to use the existing electric shower wiring (mostly) and
will down rate the MCB. The instructions for the Power Shower recommend a 3
amp fuse. For his Consumer Unit it appears that 6 amp is the lowest rating.
With motor surge in mind - does this seem correct anyway?


Regards

John

In article ,
"DerbyBoy" No-one writes:
A friend has a plumber fitting a Power Shower in place of an electric
shower.

The plumber is going to use the existing electric shower wiring (mostly) and
will down rate the MCB. The instructions for the Power Shower recommend a 3
amp fuse. For his Consumer Unit it appears that 6 amp is the lowest rating.
With motor surge in mind - does this seem correct anyway?

He can fit a Fused Connection Unit to terminate the shower cable, and
provide a flex outlet for the pump. If the pump is outside the bathroom,
another alternative is a standard 13A plug and socket. In either case,
a 3A fuse can be fitted. You should chose a make of socket or FCU which
has large conductor capacity terminals and can take the shower cable
(although if it's 10mm², you might struggle).

Then replace the MCB with a 16A or 20A or 32A one - it doesn't much
matter.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

He was hoping to avoid the obvious solution which was to put a FSU in the
loft above the shower - the only easy place. He doesn't like going into his
loft. Any other locations mean more electrical work and routing of cables
which he is hoping to avoid.

It is one of those Power Showers that is wall mounted - it is literally
going over the place where the old electric shower used to be. (Just new
gravity water feeds to it).

In article ,
"DerbyBoy" No-one writes:

It is one of those Power Showers that is wall mounted - it is literally
going over the place where the old electric shower used to be. (Just new
gravity water feeds to it).

It's unlikely he will get the 6mm² or 10mm² electric shower cable
into terminals of a 3A appliance.

There is presumably a separate switch (pull-cord, probably) for the
shower? After changing the MCB as described earlier, he could replace
the switch with an FCU, and pull a 1mm² T&E from there to the shower,
if it's designed to be hardwired.

He was hoping to avoid the obvious solution which was to put a FSU in the
loft above the shower - the only easy place. He doesn't like going into his
loft. Any other locations mean more electrical work and routing of cables
which he is hoping to avoid.

Must make the plumbing rather difficult?
BTW, FCU must be in the bathroom, or immediately outside, not in the loft.
It has to be positioned so as to be under the immediate control of a person
working on the shower (or it has to be of a type which can be locked in the
off-position with a padlock).

Of course, the plumber should know all this, or he wouldn't be doing the
wiring for the shower at all.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Must make the plumbing rather difficult?
BTW, FCU must be in the bathroom, or immediately outside, not in the loft.
It has to be positioned so as to be under the immediate control of a person
working on the shower (or it has to be of a type which can be locked in the
off-position with a padlock).

Of course, the plumber should know all this, or he wouldn't be doing the
wiring for the shower at all.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]



____________________________________
It is the house owner who won't go into the loft.

I think it is wrong to assume a plumber knows all the electrical
regulations - he is 68 years old as well.

In message , DerbyBoy
writes



Must make the plumbing rather difficult?
BTW, FCU must be in the bathroom, or immediately outside, not in the loft.
It has to be positioned so as to be under the immediate control of a person
working on the shower (or it has to be of a type which can be locked in the
off-position with a padlock).

Of course, the plumber should know all this, or he wouldn't be doing
the
wiring for the shower at all.

____________________________________
It is the house owner who won't go into the loft.

I think it is wrong to assume a plumber knows all the electrical regulations - he is 68


He doesn't need to know all electrical regulations, but he should be up
to speed on those bits which are relevant to his work.

Is it not Part P notifiable being in a bathroom?
--
Chris French

On 05/09/2011 21:54, chris French wrote:

He doesn't need to know all electrical regulations, but he should be up
to speed on those bits which are relevant to his work.

Is it not Part P notifiable being in a bathroom?

A like for like swap would be non notifiable even in a "special
location". However swapping from an electrically heated shower to a
power shower is stretching the definition of "like for like" a little.
Especially as it unlikely to be doable without at least some
modification to the wiring.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
On 05/09/2011 21:54, chris French wrote:

He doesn't need to know all electrical regulations, but he should be
up to speed on those bits which are relevant to his work.

Is it not Part P notifiable being in a bathroom?

A like for like swap would be non notifiable even in a "special
location". However swapping from an electrically heated shower to a
power shower is stretching the definition of "like for like" a little.
Especially as it unlikely to be doable without at least some
modification to the wiring.

Lots of people think that a power shower IS an electric shower:-)


--
Adam

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"DerbyBoy" No-one writes:

It is one of those Power Showers that is wall mounted - it is
literally going over the place where the old electric shower used to
be. (Just new gravity water feeds to it).

It's unlikely he will get the 6mm² or 10mm² electric shower cable
into terminals of a 3A appliance.

Any pro will tell you that you only need to remove 4 of the strands.....

--
Adam

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 05/09/2011 21:54, chris French wrote:

He doesn't need to know all electrical regulations, but he should be up
to speed on those bits which are relevant to his work.

Is it not Part P notifiable being in a bathroom?

A like for like swap would be non notifiable even in a "special
location". However swapping from an electrically heated shower to a
power shower is stretching the definition of "like for like" a little.
Especially as it unlikely to be doable without at least some
modification to the wiring.

when I installed a power shower some years ago, the supply to the unit was
low voltage fed from a transformer. Does Part P then apply?

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

On 06/09/2011 17:27, ARWadsworth wrote:
John wrote:
On 05/09/2011 21:54, chris French wrote:

He doesn't need to know all electrical regulations, but he should be
up to speed on those bits which are relevant to his work.

Is it not Part P notifiable being in a bathroom?

A like for like swap would be non notifiable even in a "special
location". However swapping from an electrically heated shower to a
power shower is stretching the definition of "like for like" a little.
Especially as it unlikely to be doable without at least some
modification to the wiring.

Lots of people think that a power shower IS an electric shower:-)

That could turn out to be a shock on many different levels ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 06/09/2011 18:01, charles wrote:
In articlelIudnVyZEtrv1PvTnZ2dnUVZ8nednZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk,
John wrote:
On 05/09/2011 21:54, chris French wrote:

He doesn't need to know all electrical regulations, but he should be up
to speed on those bits which are relevant to his work.

Is it not Part P notifiable being in a bathroom?

A like for like swap would be non notifiable even in a "special
location". However swapping from an electrically heated shower to a
power shower is stretching the definition of "like for like" a little.
Especially as it unlikely to be doable without at least some
modification to the wiring.

when I installed a power shower some years ago, the supply to the unit was
low voltage fed from a transformer. Does Part P then apply?

Probably depends on where the mains side of it was located.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 06/09/2011 22:25, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/09/2011 18:01, charles wrote:

when I installed a power shower some years ago, the supply to the
unit was low voltage fed from a transformer. Does Part P then
apply?

Probably depends on where the mains side of it was located.

For domestic installations Part P always applies (i.e the wiring must be
safe), whether or not the work is notifiable. ELV circuits only get an
exemption if they're for telecoms or control etc., rather than for power
or lighting. An ELV circuit to power a shower pump should be notified
(strictly...).

--
Andy

On 6 Sep,
Andy Wade wrote:

For domestic installations Part P always applies (i.e the wiring must be
safe), whether or not the work is notifiable. ELV circuits only get an
exemption if they're for telecoms or control etc., rather than for power
or lighting. An ELV circuit to power a shower pump should be notified
(strictly...).

If it's in the bottom of the airing cupboard, across the landing from the
bathroom? Shouldn't be notifiable whether it is ELV or normal mains as long
as on an existing circuit.

--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

On 06/09/2011 23:24, Andy Wade wrote:
On 06/09/2011 22:25, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/09/2011 18:01, charles wrote:

when I installed a power shower some years ago, the supply to the
unit was low voltage fed from a transformer. Does Part P then
apply?

Probably depends on where the mains side of it was located.

For domestic installations Part P always applies (i.e the wiring must be
safe), whether or not the work is notifiable. ELV circuits only get an
exemption if they're for telecoms or control etc., rather than for power
or lighting. An ELV circuit to power a shower pump should be notified
(strictly...).

My area of doubt was because some power showers basically are driven
from a wallwart or soap on a rope style PSU, that then plugs into the
back of the shower unit before it is hung - practically rendering the
thing an "appliance". So with the socket outside the room (or in a space
only accessible via a tool like the underbath space).

("Powershower" could also I suppose include a traditional shower pump
installed outside of the bathroom).




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/09/2011 09:26, John Rumm wrote:

My area of doubt was because some power showers basically are driven
from a wallwart or soap on a rope style PSU, that then plugs into the
back of the shower unit before it is hung - practically rendering the
thing an "appliance".

Hmm, you can't argue that a shower isn't fixed equipment. Then see 0.4
(Electrical installation, definition of) and note h on page 9, both in
the Approved Doc.

("Powershower" could also I suppose include a traditional shower pump
installed outside of the bathroom).

Yes that wouldn't be notifiable, assuming no new final circuit.

--
Andy