Just fitting a Wickes wooden loft ladder and I'm puzzling over what
this chart/diagram combination is saying. (There are no written
instructions.)

http://imageshack.us/f/846/loftladder.jpg/

If X represents the length of the frame, it's 113cm. To be =115cm,
it would have to represent something else. But what?

There are twelve rungs to the ladder (may have to cut one off for
height adjustment).

Vertical floor to ceiling height is 242cm.

Do the numbers between 272 and 284 have something to do with the
ladder length?

Apologies if this is a really dumb question and I'm missing something
obvious, but it's so far escaped me.

On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 02:27:41 -0700 (PDT)
mike wrote:

Just fitting a Wickes wooden loft ladder and I'm puzzling over what
this chart/diagram combination is saying. (There are no written
instructions.)

http://imageshack.us/f/846/loftladder.jpg/

If X represents the length of the frame, it's 113cm. To be =115cm,
it would have to represent something else. But what?

There are twelve rungs to the ladder (may have to cut one off for
height adjustment).

Vertical floor to ceiling height is 242cm.

Do the numbers between 272 and 284 have something to do with the
ladder length?

Apologies if this is a really dumb question and I'm missing something
obvious, but it's so far escaped me.

Fair question. Does anyone ever understand picturese? Almost all
'stuff' comes with picturese instructions these days. At least with
English words WE understood it. I think I'd even prefer German or
French to picturese! I recently bought and expensive German 'widget',
and had to make four calls to the UK agent to find out what the hell
the pictures of things with exclamation marks were.

The Table refers to the distance from the hatch to the floor (reach?), I
think, and the bolt sets the slope for different 'reach' requirements.

R.

On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 10:47:18 +0100
TheOldFellow wrote:

On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 02:27:41 -0700 (PDT)
mike wrote:

Just fitting a Wickes wooden loft ladder and I'm puzzling over what
this chart/diagram combination is saying. (There are no written
instructions.)

http://imageshack.us/f/846/loftladder.jpg/

If X represents the length of the frame, it's 113cm. To be =115cm,
it would have to represent something else. But what?

There are twelve rungs to the ladder (may have to cut one off for
height adjustment).

Vertical floor to ceiling height is 242cm.

Do the numbers between 272 and 284 have something to do with the
ladder length?

Apologies if this is a really dumb question and I'm missing
something obvious, but it's so far escaped me.

Fair question. Does anyone ever understand picturese? Almost all
'stuff' comes with picturese instructions these days. At least with
English words WE understood it. I think I'd even prefer German or
French to picturese! I recently bought and expensive German 'widget',
and had to make four calls to the UK agent to find out what the hell
the pictures of things with exclamation marks were.

The Table refers to the distance from the hatch to the floor
(reach?), I think, and the bolt sets the slope for different 'reach'
requirements.

R.


I agree, as much as can be determined from the pic. It doesn't allow
for X to be anything less than 115 cm, but it is said to be 113 cm.
Like so many other things nowadays, by trying to make the instructions
understandable by everyone, they make them understandable by nobody.
Often, I have come across instructions, even written ones, put together
by somebody who clearly knows the equipment inside out, but can't
realise that he is writing for somebody who has never seen it before.
Make It Simple, Stupid!
--
Davey.

On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:22:20 +0100, Davey
wrote:

I agree, as much as can be determined from the pic. It doesn't allow
for X to be anything less than 115 cm

Presumably because if it were then you wouldn't be able to fit the
folded up ladder into the loft hatch opening


--

The Other Mike wrote:

On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:22:20 +0100, Davey
wrote:

I agree, as much as can be determined from the pic. It doesn't allow
for X to be anything less than 115 cm

Presumably because if it were then you wouldn't be able to fit the
folded up ladder into the loft hatch opening

I wonder if there are any clues on other parts of the
instructions? Is anything cut to size or otherwise variable?

The left-hand leader line for the "X" dimension is ambiguous - it
could be taken from the left hand part of the metal mechanism, or
the inside of the timber frame. In any case, since the dimension
appears to relate to the ladder as supplied it is unclear how
this could vary.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On 01/09/2011 10:27, mike wrote:
Just fitting a Wickes wooden loft ladder and I'm puzzling over what
this chart/diagram combination is saying. (There are no written
instructions.)

http://imageshack.us/f/846/loftladder.jpg/

If X represents the length of the frame, it's 113cm. To be =115cm,
it would have to represent something else. But what?

A longer ladder? I would guess they sell (at least) two different subtle
variations of the ladder - one a tiny bit longer than the other.
The shortest will have an X dimension of 115cm.

There are twelve rungs to the ladder (may have to cut one off for
height adjustment).

Vertical floor to ceiling height is 242cm.

Do the numbers between 272 and 284 have something to do with the
ladder length?

The restraining bracket hole used will dictate the maximum steepness of
slope of the ladder and hence also the maximum ceiling height it can
cope with. So pos 1 lets it dangle nearer the vertical and hence also
cope with the ceiling height of up to 281cm. Pos 3 allows a less steep
angle, and hence reduction in maximum height.

I think in practice the answer is, install it then trim to length and
set the restraint position to achieve the best combination of ladder
angle and reach, while trying to keep the floor to first run step size
the same as the remaining rung spacings.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

mike explained on 01/09/2011 :
Just fitting a Wickes wooden loft ladder and I'm puzzling over what
this chart/diagram combination is saying. (There are no written
instructions.)

http://imageshack.us/f/846/loftladder.jpg/

If X represents the length of the frame, it's 113cm. To be =115cm,
it would have to represent something else. But what?

There are twelve rungs to the ladder (may have to cut one off for
height adjustment).

Vertical floor to ceiling height is 242cm.

Do the numbers between 272 and 284 have something to do with the
ladder length?

Apologies if this is a really dumb question and I'm missing something
obvious, but it's so far escaped me.

Obviously the bracket with three holes limits the angle of the ladder,
so the number must mean the height in cm that the ladder has to reach.
It is not clear where the measurement should be made from - but
obviously down to the floor. The three holes give adjustment so that
the rungs of the three ladder sections are level with each other.

I would be inclined to fit, then adjust the bracket later to get the
rungs level.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

I agree, as much as can be determined from the pic. It doesn't allow
for X to be anything less than 115 cm, but it is said to be 113 cm.
Like so many other things nowadays, by trying to make the instructions
understandable by everyone, they make them understandable by nobody.
Often, I have come across instructions, even written ones, put together
by somebody who clearly knows the equipment inside out, but can't
realise that he is writing for somebody who has never seen it before.
Make It Simple, Stupid!

MISS?

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Thanks for all the replies.

I ended up trying it in each position before cutting it, to see which
would give the best compromise between level steps and first rung
spacing. (If there was a way of working it out theoretically from the
table, I didn't find it.)

In the event, there was very little variation between the three
positions and cutting the ladder to length in any position coincided
with either the top, middle or bottom of a step -- so I just picked
what I thought was the best (or least worst) option.

I had to re-fit the ladder to the trap door because the instructions
didn't make it clear which of two sets of holes to use. I fitted the
hand rail three times before I found the right combination.
Fortunately, I ignored the cutting instructions that said to measure
from the second section to the floor and divide by 2cm (it should have
said subtract 2cm). And installing the springs was like some World's
Strongest Man event, except they don't usually do those whilst
balanced on some 3x2s over a rickety lath-and plaster ceiling: someone
on the Wickes website reviews suggested using a tent peg puller but
since I didn't have one, I used a mole grips.

Overall, not a bad product but some of the most frustrating and least
helpful instructions I've ever seen.

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 22:37:53 +0100
"Graham." wrote:



I agree, as much as can be determined from the pic. It doesn't allow
for X to be anything less than 115 cm, but it is said to be 113 cm.
Like so many other things nowadays, by trying to make the
instructions understandable by everyone, they make them
understandable by nobody. Often, I have come across instructions,
even written ones, put together by somebody who clearly knows the
equipment inside out, but can't realise that he is writing for
somebody who has never seen it before. Make It Simple, Stupid!

MISS?

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

That is one version, but:

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.co...+Simple+Stupid

http://betanews.com/2010/07/11/make-...he-mobile-web/

and others.
--
Davey.

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:39:45 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:

And installing the springs was like some World's
Strongest Man event, except they don't usually do those whilst
balanced on some 3x2s over a rickety lath-and plaster ceiling: someone
on the Wickes website reviews suggested using a tent peg puller but
since I didn't have one, I used a mole grips.

I fitted something similar - in fact it could almost be the same product.
Had to strip it as I couldn't lift the whole thing in to position and then
couldn't have kept it there to fit the screws.
Realised that a). I wasn't strong enough to stretch the springs and b). the
loading on the ladder would be too much. Rigged a pair of steps and some
rope, closed the hatch with me in the loft and managed to get the springs
on.
Trying to fit the springs with the hatch open looked like invoking an
almighty ping****it!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 09:29:36 +0100
PeterC wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:39:45 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:

And installing the springs was like some World's
Strongest Man event, except they don't usually do those whilst
balanced on some 3x2s over a rickety lath-and plaster ceiling:
someone on the Wickes website reviews suggested using a tent peg
puller but since I didn't have one, I used a mole grips.

I fitted something similar - in fact it could almost be the same
product. Had to strip it as I couldn't lift the whole thing in to
position and then couldn't have kept it there to fit the screws.
Realised that a). I wasn't strong enough to stretch the springs and
b). the loading on the ladder would be too much. Rigged a pair of
steps and some rope, closed the hatch with me in the loft and managed
to get the springs on.
Trying to fit the springs with the hatch open looked like invoking an
almighty ping****it!

I have a mental view of somebody standing on a ladder, fitting a spring,
releasing it, and then being propelled upwards through the roof!
--
Davey.

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 09:38:18 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 09:29:36 +0100
PeterC wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:39:45 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:

And installing the springs was like some World's
Strongest Man event, except they don't usually do those whilst
balanced on some 3x2s over a rickety lath-and plaster ceiling:
someone on the Wickes website reviews suggested using a tent peg
puller but since I didn't have one, I used a mole grips.

I fitted something similar - in fact it could almost be the same
product. Had to strip it as I couldn't lift the whole thing in to
position and then couldn't have kept it there to fit the screws.
Realised that a). I wasn't strong enough to stretch the springs and
b). the loading on the ladder would be too much. Rigged a pair of
steps and some rope, closed the hatch with me in the loft and managed
to get the springs on.
Trying to fit the springs with the hatch open looked like invoking an
almighty ping****it!

I have a mental view of somebody standing on a ladder, fitting a spring,
releasing it, and then being propelled upwards through the roof!

More likely through the tread and landing floor!
Ladder is rated for 150kg, I weigh ~85kg, spring needs 100kg force when
ladder is down. My legs could've done it but not my arms.
I was a bit worried about getting stuck in the loft, as there's no-one else
in the house, so took a lot of care to ensure that I could re-open the
hatch.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 14:01:27 +0100
PeterC wrote:

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 09:38:18 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Sat, 3 Sep 2011 09:29:36 +0100
PeterC wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:39:45 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:

And installing the springs was like some World's
Strongest Man event, except they don't usually do those whilst
balanced on some 3x2s over a rickety lath-and plaster ceiling:
someone on the Wickes website reviews suggested using a tent peg
puller but since I didn't have one, I used a mole grips.

I fitted something similar - in fact it could almost be the same
product. Had to strip it as I couldn't lift the whole thing in to
position and then couldn't have kept it there to fit the screws.
Realised that a). I wasn't strong enough to stretch the springs and
b). the loading on the ladder would be too much. Rigged a pair of
steps and some rope, closed the hatch with me in the loft and
managed to get the springs on.
Trying to fit the springs with the hatch open looked like invoking
an almighty ping****it!

I have a mental view of somebody standing on a ladder, fitting a
spring, releasing it, and then being propelled upwards through the
roof!

More likely through the tread and landing floor!
Ladder is rated for 150kg, I weigh ~85kg, spring needs 100kg force
when ladder is down. My legs could've done it but not my arms.
I was a bit worried about getting stuck in the loft, as there's
no-one else in the house, so took a lot of care to ensure that I
could re-open the hatch.

Two years later, somebody opens the loft hatch and sees this skeleton
still in position trying to lift the hatch!

There's a horror story in here somewhere.
--
Davey.