Hi all,
I am just about to attempt to destroy my home and could do with your
advice on the best way to go about it.

I have just bought a wooden loft ladder,
http://www.midlandladders.com/produc...Loft_Ladder-17
5-54.html ,

The house is circa 1930 and the joist are 3"X2 " and about 12" apart,
variable!, I will need to cut 3 of these. The ladder is going on the
landing ceiling and this is about 3'6" wide with a brick supporting wall
on one side and a stud wall on the other. I have planned to make a
frame that would join the cut ends of the joists and form the box for
the ladder to fit in.

Do you think this will work or will it end in disaster?

The "fun" bit will be the ceiling, plaster and lath. I have already had
to replace the bathroom ceiling as a joist had split under the old water
tank. Rather messy, but satisfying.
--
Bill

On Sat, 23 Apr 2011 09:35:33 +0100
Bill wrote:

Hi all,
I am just about to attempt to destroy my home and could do with your
advice on the best way to go about it.

I have just bought a wooden loft ladder,
http://www.midlandladders.com/produc...Loft_Ladder-17
5-54.html ,

The house is circa 1930 and the joist are 3"X2 " and about 12"
apart, variable!, I will need to cut 3 of these. The ladder is going
on the landing ceiling and this is about 3'6" wide with a brick
supporting wall on one side and a stud wall on the other. I have
planned to make a frame that would join the cut ends of the joists
and form the box for the ladder to fit in.

Do you think this will work or will it end in disaster?

The "fun" bit will be the ceiling, plaster and lath. I have already
had to replace the bathroom ceiling as a joist had split under the
old water tank. Rather messy, but satisfying.

3x2 joists are incredibly thin for a 1930's house, even at 12 inch
centres. I think I would want to sister-up the joists that would be on
the sides of the ladder-box with 2x6 or 2x8, at least to the nearest
supporting walls.

I fitted one of these recently without mishap, but my joists at 2x10,
and I only had to cut out one joist - the bit cut out was almost (but
damn it, not quite) the size make the cross pieces.

R.

On Apr 23, 9:35*am, Bill wrote:
Hi all,
I am just about to attempt to destroy my home and could do with your
advice on the best way to go about it.

I have just bought a wooden loft ladder,
http://www.midlandladders.com/produc...Loft_Ladder-17
5-54.html ,

* The house is circa 1930 and the joist are 3"X2 " and about 12" apart,
variable!, I will need to cut 3 of these. *The ladder is going on the
landing ceiling and this is about 3'6" wide with a brick supporting wall
on one side and a stud wall on the other. *I have planned to make a
frame that would join the cut ends of the joists and form the box for
the ladder to fit in.

Do you think this will work or will it end in disaster?

The "fun" bit will be the ceiling, plaster and lath. *I have already had
to replace the bathroom ceiling as a joist had split under the old water
tank. Rather messy, but satisfying.
--
Bill

3x2 rafters and joists are common in 1930's houses,I have them
throughout my place. The wood is much better quality than what we
usually get now.
It's commonly neccessary to have t cut out a joist to make a big
enough hole for the trapdoor. You need trimmers to support the cut
joist. I t might be a good idea to put in doublers down the sides of
the remaining joists on each side of the hole.

You need to be good with nails and accurately place them. If not,
use screws.
If it's lathe & plaster this will do a lot of damage, it's quite
fragile.

Be sure to examine the resting place of your ladder when in the "up"
position.They take up a lot of space in the loft.
It's usual to create a little platform for the ladder to rest on when
up. This too can strengthen the area round the trapdoor.

On 23/04/2011 09:35, Bill wrote:
Hi all,
I am just about to attempt to destroy my home and could do with your
advice on the best way to go about it.

I have just bought a wooden loft ladder,
http://www.midlandladders.com/produc...Loft_Ladder-17
5-54.html ,

The house is circa 1930 and the joist are 3"X2 " and about 12" apart,
variable!, I will need to cut 3 of these. The ladder is going on the
landing ceiling and this is about 3'6" wide with a brick supporting wall
on one side and a stud wall on the other. I have planned to make a frame
that would join the cut ends of the joists and form the box for the
ladder to fit in.

Do you think this will work or will it end in disaster?

The "fun" bit will be the ceiling, plaster and lath. I have already had
to replace the bathroom ceiling as a joist had split under the old water
tank. Rather messy, but satisfying.

My advice is to make the frame first and hang the door on it. Fixing the
frame to the joists can then be fiddled to accommodate lack of squareness.

In message
,
harry writes

3x2 rafters and joists are common in 1930's houses,I have them
throughout my place. The wood is much better quality than what we
usually get now.

Thanks for the comment on 3X2 I was slightly concerned, but then again
they are quite close together, I measured 4 of them in the are it is
going and none of the centres were the same! Looked almost hand built
by a guy without a tape measure.


It's commonly neccessary to have t cut out a joist to make a big
enough hole for the trapdoor. You need trimmers to support the cut
joist. I t might be a good idea to put in doublers down the sides of
the remaining joists on each side of the hole.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to cut 3 of them as the length of the
access hole runs across the joists. Slightly not happy about this. But
the plus side is that the sides of the hole are both about 8" in from a
brick wall on one side and a stud wall on the other. So not too worried
about it dropping, Just worried that the joists may start to move
outwards!

The ladder comes with a ready made softwood box that forms the sides of
the access, so my idea is to make a frame for it to sit in from some
spare 3x2, yes it is imperial and rather old but straight, and screw
this onto the ends of the cut joist and attach it to the uncut ones at
each end.



You need to be good with nails and accurately place them. If not,
use screws.

I'm happy with nails, when I was a kid we had a blacksmiths at the end
of the drive and I used to buy nails from him by the pound, weight.
Made all sorts of creations. But yes I do tend to get them in straight
and quick. Thought of screws in the above as I hoped they wouldn't creep
if there was tension on the joints.


If it's lathe & plaster this will do a lot of damage, it's quite
fragile.


Indeed, had to take the bathroom ceiling down a few years ago,
fortunately the room was totally stripped at the time, is there a market
for long dead flies? I have a very vicious pad saw that cuts on both
strokes so I'm hoping to do a reasonable job on just the upward stroke.
Failing that the landing isn't all that big and I quite enjoy fitting
plasterboard.



Be sure to examine the resting place of your ladder when in the "up"
position.

very fortunately this ladder hinges into 3 sections and sits over the
hole, so there is no overlap into the attic.

They take up a lot of space in the loft.
It's usual to create a little platform for the ladder to rest on when
up. This too can strengthen the area round the trapdoor.

I don't intend flooring the whole of the attic, but again I was going to
around the trapdoor. Some where to land when climbing in and also to
tie everything together.

Last slight irritation, why do electricians always run their cables
where I want to cut an access?? Ah it was me, should have planned
ahead, there again it was 15 years ago.

Should have said at the start, this is a new access, hence the cables
not routing around it already.

--
Bill

In message , stuart noble
writes


My advice is to make the frame first and hang the door on it. Fixing
the frame to the joists can then be fiddled to accommodate lack of
squareness.


I'm sure there will be lots of fiddling going on :-) It WILL be
square, maybe.

The ladder comes ready made with a softwood frame, with the ladder
attached to it and to the door. I'm a lazy so and so, so bought this
rather than constructing one.

Piece of cake.

Well it would have been if the joists ran the other way.

--
Bill

In message , MM
writes
the link I gave was to show the ladder, Titan Hobby. I did not in fact
order it from there, but from my local Gibbs and Dandy so I'm afraid I
cannot comment on the site. The paperwork that comes with it has a date
of 23/10/2007 revised 24/11/2009 but that is probably totally unrelated
to the sites Copyright ©2007. Sorry I can't be of any more help with
that one.

Did you pay roughly the same price?

MM

£127 + vat

it hurt!
memo to self, do more research!!

--
Bill

On Apr 23, 9:35*am, Bill wrote:
Hi all,
I am just about to attempt to destroy my home and could do with your
advice on the best way to go about it.

I have just bought a wooden loft ladder,
http://www.midlandladders.com/produc...Loft_Ladder-17
5-54.html ,

* The house is circa 1930 and the joist are 3"X2 " and about 12" apart,
variable!, I will need to cut 3 of these. *The ladder is going on the
landing ceiling and this is about 3'6" wide with a brick supporting wall
on one side and a stud wall on the other. *I have planned to make a
frame that would join the cut ends of the joists and form the box for
the ladder to fit in.

Do you think this will work or will it end in disaster?

The "fun" bit will be the ceiling, plaster and lath. *I have already had
to replace the bathroom ceiling as a joist had split under the old water
tank. Rather messy, but satisfying.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Loft_hatch
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...n_a_Wood_Floor


NT

In message
,
Tabby writes
On Apr 23, 9:35*am, Bill wrote:
Hi all,
I am just about to attempt to destroy my home and could do with your
advice on the best way to go about it.

I have just bought a wooden loft ladder,
http://www.midlandladders.com/produc...Loft_Ladder-17
5-54.html ,

* The house is circa 1930 and the joist are 3"X2 " and about 12" apart,
variable!, I will need to cut 3 of these. *The ladder is going on the
landing ceiling and this is about 3'6" wide with a brick supporting wall
on one side and a stud wall on the other. *I have planned to make a
frame that would join the cut ends of the joists and form the box for
the ladder to fit in.

Do you think this will work or will it end in disaster?

The "fun" bit will be the ceiling, plaster and lath. *I have already had
to replace the bathroom ceiling as a joist had split under the old water
tank. Rather messy, but satisfying.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Loft_hatch
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...n_a_Wood_Floor

Thanks for those, my main concern, as mentioned elsewhere is that I will
be cutting 3 joists.

Having just cleared away decades of detritus from the attic I have found
that the joists are lap jointed above the brick wall, this has given me
a bit more confidence that at least one side should not be a problem.
Unless of course they all start moving away longitudinally! Plans are
afoot to stop that though.

--
Bill

Bill wrote:
Last slight irritation, why do electricians always run their cables
where I want to cut an access?? *Ah it was me, should have planned
ahead, there again it was 15 years ago.

Why do electricians always run their cables /over/ the joists. I've
been precariously crawling around my brother's loft drilling through
joists and rethreading cables so we can put flooring down.

JGH

In message , Bill
writes
Hi all,
I am just about to attempt to destroy my home and could do with your
advice on the best way to go about it.

Thanks guys for all the comments. It is now fitted and so far the house
is still standing.

Great fun, biggest problem was that non of the joists were parallel, but
all was OK in the end. I am very fortunate to have a neighbour who had
a couple of hours to spare this afternoon. He also has a Paslode. This
made the fixing SO much easier and quicker.

All I need to do now is vacuum the ceiling out of the landing carpet.
And put a bit of architrave around the hatch.

Thoroughly enjoyed doing it and it could have been a one man job but
two, especially at the end, made it easier.
--
Bill