I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double glazing units.
(I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

Well probably the greenies won't let them use Co2?

If its argon, surprised they don't put electoodes in each side and turn it
into some kind of light!

I am joking..
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"harryagain" wrote in message
...
I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double glazing units.
(I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:54:06 +0100
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

Well probably the greenies won't let them use Co2?

If its argon, surprised they don't put electoodes in each side and
turn it into some kind of light!

I am joking..
Brian


Sounds like a good idea........
--
Davey.

On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double glazing units.
(I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 16/08/2011 10:19, PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double glazing units.
(I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

Some are.

Colin Bignell

PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double glazing
units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

It would effectively turn it into single glazing, though, except around teh
edges.



--
Register as an organ donor with the NHS online. It takes 1 minute and
saves you carrying an organ donor card with you.
http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/h...me_a_donor.jsp

Nightjar wrote:
On 16/08/2011 10:19, PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double
glazing units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

Some are.

You often see concave DG units but I've been told that that is due to poor
manufacturing technique rather than deliberate policy. It happens when a
window unit is sealed whilst it is laying flat rather than on edge.

Tim

GB wrote:
PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double glazing
units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.
They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

It would effectively turn it into single glazing, though, except around teh
edges.



eh?

Tim Downie wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 16/08/2011 10:19, PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double
glazing units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

Some are.

You often see concave DG units but I've been told that that is due to
poor manufacturing technique rather than deliberate policy. It happens
when a window unit is sealed whilst it is laying flat rather than on edge.

Tim
bull****

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 16/08/2011 10:19, PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double
glazing units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

Some are.

You often see concave DG units but I've been told that that is due to
poor manufacturing technique rather than deliberate policy. It
happens when a window unit is sealed whilst it is laying flat rather
than on edge. Tim
bull****

Why do you think that? I was told it by a DG installer. Makes perfect
sense to me that if a large window is laid flat, the top pane will sag under
its own weight. If the unit is sealed in that position, you end you with a
permenantly concave unit (which looks a bit crap in my opinion). Sealing
the units whilst upright prevents this happening.

Tim

In article ,
Tim Downie wrote:
You often see concave DG units but I've been told that that is due to
poor manufacturing technique rather than deliberate policy. It
happens when a window unit is sealed whilst it is laying flat rather
than on edge. Tim
bull****

Why do you think that? I was told it by a DG installer. Makes perfect
sense to me that if a large window is laid flat, the top pane will sag
under its own weight. If the unit is sealed in that position, you end
you with a permenantly concave unit (which looks a bit crap in my
opinion). Sealing the units whilst upright prevents this happening.

Hmm. Gravity versus air pressure. Discuss. ;-)

--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 16/08/2011 10:19, PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double
glazing units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

Some are.

You often see concave DG units but I've been told that that is due to
poor manufacturing technique rather than deliberate policy. It
happens when a window unit is sealed whilst it is laying flat rather
than on edge. Tim
bull****

Why do you think that? I was told it by a DG installer. Makes perfect
sense to me that if a large window is laid flat, the top pane will sag
under its own weight. If the unit is sealed in that position, you end you
with a permenantly concave unit (which looks a bit crap in my opinion).
Sealing the units whilst upright prevents this happening.

Glass doesn't bow much under its own weight in the typical sizes used for
glazing.
Its more likely that they made it on a hot day and the temperature and
pressure dropped after they sealed it.

"GB" wrote in message
...
PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double glazing
units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

It would effectively turn it into single glazing, though, except around
teh edges.

A vacuum doesn't conduct heat, glass does so its not the same.

Tim Downie wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 16/08/2011 10:19, PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double
glazing units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

Some are.

You often see concave DG units but I've been told that that is due to
poor manufacturing technique rather than deliberate policy. It
happens when a window unit is sealed whilst it is laying flat rather
than on edge. Tim
bull****

Why do you think that? I was told it by a DG installer.

QED

Makes perfect
sense to me that if a large window is laid flat, the top pane will sag
under its own weight. If the unit is sealed in that position, you end
you with a permenantly concave unit (which looks a bit crap in my
opinion). Sealing the units whilst upright prevents this happening.


Google youngs elastic modulus

Tim

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
GB wrote:
PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double
glazing units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.
They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

It would effectively turn it into single glazing, though, except
around teh edges.



eh?

Vacuum inside. 14 psi (in old money) pressure on the panes from the
atmosphere. The panes will bend inwards until they touch in the middle. The
edges are kept aupported at the sides by the spacers, assuming that these
are strong enough not to be crushed by the very considerable force on them.
Come on guys, think back to O level physics.





--
Register as an organ donor with the NHS online. It takes 1 minute and
saves you carrying an organ donor card with you.
http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/h...me_a_donor.jsp

Vacuum inside. 14 psi (in old money) pressure on the panes from the
atmosphere. The panes will bend inwards until they touch in the
middle. The edges are kept aupported at the sides by the spacers,
assuming that these are strong enough not to be crushed by the very
considerable force on them. Come on guys, think back to O level
physics.

Pilkington telling porkies?

http://www.pilkington.com/products/b...ia/default.htm

which includes

"Pilkington Spacia is the world's first commercially available vacuum
glazing. It offers the thermal performance of conventional double
glazing in the same thickness as single glass (6 mm). "




--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

"Robin" wrote in message
...
Vacuum inside. 14 psi (in old money) pressure on the panes from the
atmosphere. The panes will bend inwards until they touch in the
middle. The edges are kept aupported at the sides by the spacers,
assuming that these are strong enough not to be crushed by the very
considerable force on them. Come on guys, think back to O level
physics.

Pilkington telling porkies?

http://www.pilkington.com/products/b...ia/default.htm

which includes

"Pilkington Spacia is the world's first commercially available vacuum
glazing. It offers the thermal performance of conventional double glazing
in the same thickness as single glass (6 mm). "

indeed clever stuff with tiny "dimples" acting as a spacer - frighteningly
expensive methinks, mainly to do with the only plant that can make it
is/was? in Japan and even then a limited range of sizes... what are the
seals made of though as that's the weak link with all of 'em??

Jim K

On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:37:17 +0100, Robin wrote:

Vacuum inside. 14 psi (in old money) pressure on the panes from the
atmosphere. The panes will bend inwards until they touch in the
middle. The edges are kept aupported at the sides by the spacers,
assuming that these are strong enough not to be crushed by the very
considerable force on them. Come on guys, think back to O level
physics.

Pilkington telling porkies?

http://www.pilkington.com/products/b...ia/default.htm

which includes

"Pilkington Spacia is the world's first commercially available vacuum
glazing. It offers the thermal performance of conventional double
glazing in the same thickness as single glass (6 mm). "

Probably only for small(ish) units.
Rather worryingly, under "How it works", it mentions that conventional units
have a gas-filled gap of up to 20mm so the o/a thickness is 24mm - rather
thin glass methinks.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:20:58 +0100, GB wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
GB wrote:
PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double
glazing units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.
They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

It would effectively turn it into single glazing, though, except
around teh edges.



eh?

Vacuum inside. 14 psi (in old money) pressure on the panes from the
atmosphere. The panes will bend inwards until they touch in the middle. The
edges are kept aupported at the sides by the spacers, assuming that these
are strong enough not to be crushed by the very considerable force on them.
Come on guys, think back to O level physics.

Not if it's a special HP vacuum it won't.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Probably only for small(ish) units.
AIUI the reverse is true: there is a *minimum*size (200x350mm). Max. is
1500 × 2500 for the really thin stuff. So in typical cases of old
buildings it is fitted as laregish panes (by old standards) and dummy
bars applied. With bigger spacing they can go up to nearly 2800x6000.

I've also read that the spacers are not fixed to the glass but are held
in place by the pressure on each pane. So if the vacuum fails the dots
fall down and you can see that in order to maintain your stately pile
you need to sell another serving wench, son, kidney etc.........
(Fortunately for me I was sitting down when I asked about price some
time ago.).

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

On Aug 16, 8:11*pm, "Robin" wrote:
Probably only for small(ish) units.

AIUI the reverse is true: there is a *minimum*size (200x350mm). Max. is
1500 × 2500 for the really thin stuff. *So in typical cases of old
buildings it is fitted as laregish panes (by old standards) and dummy
bars applied. *With bigger spacing they can go up to nearly 2800x6000.

I've also read that the spacers are not fixed to the glass but are held
in place by the pressure on each pane. *So if the vacuum fails the dots
fall down and you can see that in order to maintain your stately pile
you need to sell another serving wench, son, kidney etc.........
(Fortunately for me I was sitting down when I asked about price some
time ago.).

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

There is an alternative. That is quadruple glazing which I have. But
it's a lot thicker than 24mm.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Aug 16, 8:11 pm, "Robin" wrote:
Probably only for small(ish) units.

AIUI the reverse is true: there is a *minimum*size (200x350mm). Max. is
1500 × 2500 for the really thin stuff. So in typical cases of old
buildings it is fitted as laregish panes (by old standards) and dummy
bars applied. With bigger spacing they can go up to nearly 2800x6000.

I've also read that the spacers are not fixed to the glass but are held
in place by the pressure on each pane. So if the vacuum fails the dots
fall down and you can see that in order to maintain your stately pile
you need to sell another serving wench, son, kidney etc.........
(Fortunately for me I was sitting down when I asked about price some
time ago.).

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

"There is an alternative. That is quadruple glazing which I have. But
it's a lot thicker than 24mm."

how are the perimeter seals constructed?

Jim K

On Aug 16, 9:22*pm, "Jim K" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...
On Aug 16, 8:11 pm, "Robin" wrote:





Probably only for small(ish) units.

AIUI the reverse is true: there is a *minimum*size (200x350mm). Max. is
1500 × 2500 for the really thin stuff. So in typical cases of old
buildings it is fitted as laregish panes (by old standards) and dummy
bars applied. With bigger spacing they can go up to nearly 2800x6000.

I've also read that the spacers are not fixed to the glass but are held
in place by the pressure on each pane. So if the vacuum fails the dots
fall down and you can see that in order to maintain your stately pile
you need to sell another serving wench, son, kidney etc.........
(Fortunately for me I was sitting down when I asked about price some
time ago.).

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

"There is an alternative. That is quadruple glazing which I have. *But
it's a lot thicker than 24mm."

how are the perimeter seals constructed?

Jim K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I made the windows myself. It is two double glazing units in a timber
frame. They are just sealed with silicon. I occasionally get slight
misting problems but it goes away.

On 16/08/2011 18:23, PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:20:58 +0100, GB wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
GB wrote:
PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double
glazing units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.
They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

It would effectively turn it into single glazing, though, except
around teh edges.



eh?

Vacuum inside. 14 psi (in old money) pressure on the panes from the
atmosphere. The panes will bend inwards until they touch in the middle. The
edges are kept aupported at the sides by the spacers, assuming that these
are strong enough not to be crushed by the very considerable force on them.
Come on guys, think back to O level physics.

Not if it's a special HP vacuum it won't.

Are you suggesting that there are different grades of vacuums? Where a
common or garden vacuum will allow the atmosphere to exert nominally 1
bar on the pane, but a "special HP" one won't??

Do you have any qualifications in physics?

On Aug 16, 11:49*am, "GB" wrote:
PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double glazing
units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.

They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

It would effectively turn it into single glazing, though, except around teh
edges.

No they keep the panes separate will tiny metal spacers. Looks awful
in my view.

Robert

On Aug 16, 7:37*am, "harryagain" wrote:
I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double glazing units.
(I wonder why they don't use CO2.)

Argon has a (slightly) lower thermal conductivity than CO2 (about
0.1 vs 0.15 W/m/K).

Robert

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 16:07:36 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 16/08/2011 18:23, PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:20:58 +0100, GB wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
GB wrote:
PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:37:45 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I wonder how long the argon stays in these gas filled double
glazing units. (I wonder why they don't use CO2.)
No way of telling if/when it's all leaked out.
Waste of money if you ask me.
They should be filled with a vacuum - that won't leak out.

It would effectively turn it into single glazing, though, except
around teh edges.



eh?

Vacuum inside. 14 psi (in old money) pressure on the panes from the
atmosphere. The panes will bend inwards until they touch in the middle. The
edges are kept aupported at the sides by the spacers, assuming that these
are strong enough not to be crushed by the very considerable force on them.
Come on guys, think back to O level physics.

Not if it's a special HP vacuum it won't.

Are you suggesting that there are different grades of vacuums? Where a
common or garden vacuum will allow the atmosphere to exert nominally 1
bar on the pane, but a "special HP" one won't??

Do you have any qualifications in physics?

Oh, sorry, ;-)
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

PeterC wrote:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 16:07:36 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 16/08/2011 18:23, PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:20:58 +0100, GB wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
eh?
Vacuum inside. 14 psi (in old money) pressure on the panes from the
atmosphere. The panes will bend inwards until they touch in the middle. The
edges are kept aupported at the sides by the spacers, assuming that these
are strong enough not to be crushed by the very considerable force on them.
Come on guys, think back to O level physics.

Thinking back to my "A" level physics, and knowing the strength of
glass, roughly, a two foot square pane would have just under four tons
squeezing it together. It should meet in the centre of the pane, but the
bending stresses near the edges will break it. Unless the panes are
thick enough, which would probably mean about an inch thickness of
toughened glass. Never mind the spacers....


--
Tciao for Now!

John.