HI Folks
Recent discussions about recovering files from broken Windows installs
reminded me that I _always_ meant to take a look at Linux....

Downloaded Knoppix and created a bootable USB 'pendisk'.
So far, so good.
Actually boots as well!

Unfortunately, Knoppix seems unable to find my lan card -
and googling around the problem only adds to the confusion as folks
start bandying around all kinds of techie stuff g -
I was hoping for a 'windows-like' install (as in, it finds the hardware
& runs it) rather than delving about in the pc's innards.

PC is Dell Vostro 200, netcard is on the motherboard but Knoppix
couldn't find a USB wireless card either...

Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Thanks
Adrian

On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:


Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.


--
Bernard Peek

On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:


Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.


HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue? g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian

On Jun 20, 3:47*pm, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:

On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.

HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue? g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian

Buy a new network card ?

I must admit to being a little surprised too. IME Ubuntu has detected
every network *card* (whether PCI or motherboard) and a fair few USB
wi-fi sticks - certain all the belkin ones I've had.

Can you confirm it's a lack of drivers ? Sure the card is enabled in
the BIOS and actually works ?

If you have windows on the machine already, does it find and use the
network ?

I'd always advise anyone installing Linux on a machine which has
windows on *already* to do a side-by-side (dual boot) install. That
way you can always boot back to windows in the event of hardware not
working to eliminate the hardware, and confirm it as a Linux issue.
Especially since any post on a Linux forum will result it loads of
answers telling you your problem can't be Linux .....

On Jun 20, 3:59*pm, Jethro wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:47*pm, Adrian Brentnall wrote:









On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:

On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.

HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue? g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian

Buy a new network card ?

I must admit to being a little surprised too. IME Ubuntu has detected
every network *card* (whether PCI or motherboard) and a fair few USB
wi-fi sticks - certain all the belkin ones I've had.

Can you confirm it's a lack of drivers ? Sure the card is enabled in
the BIOS and actually works ?

If you have windows on the machine already, does it find and use the
network ?

I'd always advise anyone installing Linux on a machine which has
windows on *already* to do a side-by-side (dual boot) install. That
way you can always boot back to windows in the event of hardware not
working to eliminate the hardware, and confirm it as a Linux issue.
Especially since any post on a Linux forum will result it loads of
answers telling you your problem can't be Linux .....

I would try Unbuntu from a CD or USB stick. I found the Ubutu forums
to be very helpful, not at all as you describe.

MBQ

On 20/06/2011 15:47, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:


Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.


HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue? g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?


That chipset is part of the Intel PRO/1000 family of adapters (though it
doesn't do Gigabit). The driver file is e1000.ko

You might have it?

Start from doing

modprobe e1000

and then

ifconfig -a

or look at the output of the dmesg command to find if it loads.

--
Adrian C

"Adrian Brentnall" wrote

On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:


Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.


HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue? g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian


Hi Adrian

I've used Ubuntu 8.10 Live CD either for boot and file recovery or as an
installed OS.

So far this has worked on:
Sony laptop for file recovery to USB stick - don't know about network didn't
check
IBM Thinkpad installed as OS - networked OK (my home internet access is via
network)
Dell Optiplex desktop - for boot only and play
HP PC for file recovery to USB stick - network showed attached devices, but
there is some issue with seeing shares on a Windows domain that I didn't
resolve.

Having only just completed the HP PC exercise this is fairly fresh - the
only further comment would be that I tried booting a Dell laptop with the
Ubuntu CD and it threw up a load of errors (I believe it was struggling to
read the CD, certainly wasn't a network issue).

HTH

Phil

On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:24:50 +0100, Adrian C wrote:

That chipset is part of the Intel PRO/1000 family of adapters (though it
doesn't do Gigabit). The driver file is e1000.ko

You might have it?

Start from doing

modprobe e1000

and then

ifconfig -a

or look at the output of the dmesg command to find if it loads.

Bzzzzt...

Needs the user to know how to star and use the command line
interface.

"Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play"
live
distro available?"

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 20/06/2011 15:59, Jethro wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:47 pm, Adrian wrote:
On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:

On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.

HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue?g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian

Buy a new network card ?

g - that's a possibility, but it does work already under Windows.....


I must admit to being a little surprised too. IME Ubuntu has detected
every network *card* (whether PCI or motherboard) and a fair few USB
wi-fi sticks - certain all the belkin ones I've had.

Can you confirm it's a lack of drivers ? Sure the card is enabled in
the BIOS and actually works ?

Yes - under Windows


If you have windows on the machine already, does it find and use the
network ?

Yup!


I'd always advise anyone installing Linux on a machine which has
windows on *already* to do a side-by-side (dual boot) install. That
way you can always boot back to windows in the event of hardware not
working to eliminate the hardware, and confirm it as a Linux issue.
Especially since any post on a Linux forum will result it loads of
answers telling you your problem can't be Linux .....

g - Yes - I'd noticed those attitudes......

Thanks
Adrian

On 20/06/2011 16:24, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:59 pm, wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:47 pm, Adrian wrote:









On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:

On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.

HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue?g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian

Buy a new network card ?

I must admit to being a little surprised too. IME Ubuntu has detected
every network *card* (whether PCI or motherboard) and a fair few USB
wi-fi sticks - certain all the belkin ones I've had.

Can you confirm it's a lack of drivers ? Sure the card is enabled in
the BIOS and actually works ?

If you have windows on the machine already, does it find and use the
network ?

I'd always advise anyone installing Linux on a machine which has
windows on *already* to do a side-by-side (dual boot) install. That
way you can always boot back to windows in the event of hardware not
working to eliminate the hardware, and confirm it as a Linux issue.
Especially since any post on a Linux forum will result it loads of
answers telling you your problem can't be Linux .....

I would try Unbuntu from a CD or USB stick. I found the Ubutu forums
to be very helpful, not at all as you describe.


Thanks - might try that....
Adrian

On 20/06/2011 16:24, Adrian C wrote:
On 20/06/2011 15:47, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:


Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.


HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue? g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?


That chipset is part of the Intel PRO/1000 family of adapters (though it
doesn't do Gigabit). The driver file is e1000.ko

You might have it?

Start from doing

modprobe e1000

and then

ifconfig -a

or look at the output of the dmesg command to find if it loads.


Thanks.
I've printed that out - and I'll have a try....

I'm not totally opposed to command-line stuff (have been into
programming and particularly real-time industrial control systems for
about 20 years) - but looking to just 'try' a modern Linux without
having to get all down and dirty with the hardware.

Took a few tentative steps along this route about 5 years ago - but
backed out fairly quickly when the install did unspeakable things to the
c:drive and I ended up with a high-tech doorstop rather than a PC
(probably my fault as much as the distro's!)

A 'live' Linux seemed like a good way of dipping a toe in the water -
but if it can't see the network then it's not encouraging.

Thanks
Adrian

On 20/06/2011 16:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:24:50 +0100, Adrian C wrote:

That chipset is part of the Intel PRO/1000 family of adapters (though it
doesn't do Gigabit). The driver file is e1000.ko

You might have it?

Start from doing

modprobe e1000

and then

ifconfig -a

or look at the output of the dmesg command to find if it loads.

Bzzzzt...

Needs the user to know how to star and use the command line
interface.

"Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play"
live
distro available?"


I can probably manage that g - it's when the support forums talk gaily
of downloading this widget, reassembling it having first translated into
Serbo-Croat, and lighting the black candles, that I tend to go a bit
'ooo-er'.....

On 20/06/2011 16:39, TheScullster wrote:
"Adrian Brentnall" wrote

On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:


Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.


HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue?g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian


Hi Adrian

I've used Ubuntu 8.10 Live CD either for boot and file recovery or as an
installed OS.

So far this has worked on:
Sony laptop for file recovery to USB stick - don't know about network didn't
check
IBM Thinkpad installed as OS - networked OK (my home internet access is via
network)
Dell Optiplex desktop - for boot only and play
HP PC for file recovery to USB stick - network showed attached devices, but
there is some issue with seeing shares on a Windows domain that I didn't
resolve.

Having only just completed the HP PC exercise this is fairly fresh - the
only further comment would be that I tried booting a Dell laptop with the
Ubuntu CD and it threw up a load of errors (I believe it was struggling to
read the CD, certainly wasn't a network issue).

HTH

Phil



Hi Phil

Thanks.
there's an amount of dark mutterings about Dell hardware in the forums....

but I'll give Knoppix another go & see where it takes me

Adrian

Adrian C wrote:


You might have it?

Start from doing

modprobe e1000


That's a core mainline driver (rather than a 3rd party add on) and
definitely will be present in any linux distro from *about* 2004 until well
into the future from now.
--
Tim Watts

Jethro wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:47 pm, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:

On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?
Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.
It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.
HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue? g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian

Buy a new network card ?

I must admit to being a little surprised too. IME Ubuntu has detected
every network *card* (whether PCI or motherboard) and a fair few USB
wi-fi sticks - certain all the belkin ones I've had.

Can you confirm it's a lack of drivers ? Sure the card is enabled in
the BIOS and actually works ?

If you have windows on the machine already, does it find and use the
network ?

I'd always advise anyone installing Linux on a machine which has
windows on *already* to do a side-by-side (dual boot) install. That
way you can always boot back to windows in the event of hardware not
working to eliminate the hardware, and confirm it as a Linux issue.
Especially since any post on a Linux forum will result it loads of
answers telling you your problem can't be Linux .....

Only time I couldn't get onboard networking to work with Linux neither
could windows. Buggered board.

Intel based onboard Network ****e fully supported by all distros

I haven't seen OP on this. what are the symptoms? You may need to do
different with USB.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:24:50 +0100, Adrian C wrote:

That chipset is part of the Intel PRO/1000 family of adapters (though it
doesn't do Gigabit). The driver file is e1000.ko

You might have it?

Start from doing

modprobe e1000

and then

ifconfig -a

or look at the output of the dmesg command to find if it loads.

Bzzzzt...

Needs the user to know how to star and use the command line
interface.


If a windows distro goes tits uup, what do YOU do. regedit?

"Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play"
live
distro available?"


How many 'live windows distros' can you mention?

Its not so easy to cram EVERYTHING you want on a 'live' CD.

Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 20/06/2011 16:24, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:59 pm, wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:47 pm, Adrian wrote:









On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:

On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play"
live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If
the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.

HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue?g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian

Buy a new network card ?

I must admit to being a little surprised too. IME Ubuntu has detected
every network *card* (whether PCI or motherboard) and a fair few USB
wi-fi sticks - certain all the belkin ones I've had.

Can you confirm it's a lack of drivers ? Sure the card is enabled in
the BIOS and actually works ?

If you have windows on the machine already, does it find and use the
network ?

I'd always advise anyone installing Linux on a machine which has
windows on *already* to do a side-by-side (dual boot) install. That
way you can always boot back to windows in the event of hardware not
working to eliminate the hardware, and confirm it as a Linux issue.
Especially since any post on a Linux forum will result it loads of
answers telling you your problem can't be Linux .....

I would try Unbuntu from a CD or USB stick. I found the Ubutu forums
to be very helpful, not at all as you describe.


Thanks - might try that....
Adrian


yes, ubuntu is the nearest to a 'newbie distro' there is.

I use debian for historic reasons. More or less similar.

On 20/06/2011 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


If a windows distro goes tits uup, what do YOU do. regedit?

"Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play"
live
distro available?"


Operating systems are meant to be installed and supported by the
retailer or an ongoing support agreement with the user. The user is
meant to enjoy running just the loaded applications and web activities.
The OS should be invisible to the user, and just get on with the data
lifting.

And, all of this mucking about with installing *this* and upgrading
*that*, is the preserve of geeks employed to do support mainly for
business users. Unfortunately the business software was brought home and
foisted on users without much checking of suitability of purpose. Had
the 'home computer' been given a chance to grow up [1], things could
have been rather different...

But anyway, we have the situation that Mabel of 43 Acacia Avenue is
expected to know that Java and Flash should be regulary kept upto date
on her PC, that OS patches should be regulary applied, an Antivirus
scanner *working* is a necessary thing, and so is a Firewall and she
should not visit dodgy sites. And that's without even considering
playing with a command line.

Mabel is 'out there' and rather unsupported. Most of the thoughts in her
head about this computer thingy are variations of WTF?

Mind ye, I've just seen this about Windows 8 and am also thinking WTF...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I


[1] - part of me says it did - and the result is Apple ...

--
Adrian C

In message , Adrian C
writes

Mind ye, I've just seen this about Windows 8 and am also thinking
WTF...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I

If I buy it will Mr Gates be able to afford to pop down to Radio Shack
and invest in a lapel mic?
--
Bill

Adrian C wrote:


Mind ye, I've just seen this about Windows 8 and am also thinking WTF...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I


[1] - part of me says it did - and the result is Apple ...


My first thought was "they just reinvented iOS" a few years late...

--
Tim Watts

On 20/06/2011 16:24, Adrian C wrote:
On 20/06/2011 15:47, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:


Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.


HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue? g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?


That chipset is part of the Intel PRO/1000 family of adapters (though it
doesn't do Gigabit). The driver file is e1000.ko

You might have it?

Start from doing

modprobe e1000

and then

ifconfig -a

or look at the output of the dmesg command to find if it loads.

Some info from doing as you said

modprobe e1000

Knoppix didn't comment (not sure if it should have said something ?)

ifconfig -a

lo Link encap : local loopback
inet addr : 127:0:0:1 Mask 255.0.0.0
inet addr6 : ::1/128 Scope host
up loopback running mtu : 16434 MTE??(can't read my writing!) :1
rx packets : 12 errors : 0 dropped : 0 overruns : 0 Frame : 0
tx packets : 12 errors : 0 dropped : 0 overruns : 0 carrier : 0
Collisions : 0 Txqueueln : 0
Rxbytes : 600 (600.0 b) Txbyters : 600 (600.0 b)

dmesg

(loadsa log messages - ending in
Intel Pro/1000 network driver V7.2.9-K4


Any of this give us a clue ?
(doesn't mean a lot to me ....)

Thanks
Adrian

On 20/06/2011 18:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 20/06/2011 16:24, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:59 pm, wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:47 pm, Adrian wrote:









On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:

On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a
"plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.

It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work.
If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.

HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue?g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian

Buy a new network card ?

I must admit to being a little surprised too. IME Ubuntu has detected
every network *card* (whether PCI or motherboard) and a fair few USB
wi-fi sticks - certain all the belkin ones I've had.

Can you confirm it's a lack of drivers ? Sure the card is enabled in
the BIOS and actually works ?

If you have windows on the machine already, does it find and use the
network ?

I'd always advise anyone installing Linux on a machine which has
windows on *already* to do a side-by-side (dual boot) install. That
way you can always boot back to windows in the event of hardware not
working to eliminate the hardware, and confirm it as a Linux issue.
Especially since any post on a Linux forum will result it loads of
answers telling you your problem can't be Linux .....

I would try Unbuntu from a CD or USB stick. I found the Ubutu forums
to be very helpful, not at all as you describe.


Thanks - might try that....
Adrian


yes, ubuntu is the nearest to a 'newbie distro' there is.

So I'm likely to have more luck with that than I'm having with Knoppix ?
On a live pendrive 'install' ??

Thanks
Adrian

I use debian for historic reasons. More or less similar.

On 20/06/2011 18:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Jethro wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:47 pm, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On 20/06/2011 15:22, Bernard Peek wrote:

On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play"
live
distro available?
Knoppix hardware detection is about as good as it gets, it's
significantly better than Windows XP. I'm surprised that it failed to
identify the network card, less surprised about the WiFi card.
It's possible that one of the other distros has included drivers for
your hardware but I don't know which one is more likely to work. If the
hardware manufacturer hasn't released technical information then it's
entirely possible that there are no drivers available.
HI Bernard
Thanks for your comments.
Windows thinks that the netcard is an Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network
Connection (and who am I to argue? g)

Whatever it is - it's built onto the motherboard....
Is there an easy way forward for me ?

Thanks
Adrian

Buy a new network card ?

I must admit to being a little surprised too. IME Ubuntu has detected
every network *card* (whether PCI or motherboard) and a fair few USB
wi-fi sticks - certain all the belkin ones I've had.

Can you confirm it's a lack of drivers ? Sure the card is enabled in
the BIOS and actually works ?

If you have windows on the machine already, does it find and use the
network ?

I'd always advise anyone installing Linux on a machine which has
windows on *already* to do a side-by-side (dual boot) install. That
way you can always boot back to windows in the event of hardware not
working to eliminate the hardware, and confirm it as a Linux issue.
Especially since any post on a Linux forum will result it loads of
answers telling you your problem can't be Linux .....

Only time I couldn't get onboard networking to work with Linux neither
could windows. Buggered board.

Intel based onboard Network ****e fully supported by all distros

I haven't seen OP on this. what are the symptoms? You may need to do
different with USB.

I was the OP

Dell Vostro 200 - runs winxp pro no problems (network etc)

Pendrive (USB) live distro of Knoppix - can't find the network card, so
no local network and no connection to router.

Thanks
Adrian

In message , Adrian Brentnall
writes
Pendrive (USB) live distro of Knoppix - can't find the network card, so
no local network and no connection to router.

I'm interested in this having just been guided by someone to use my
Ubuntu "stick" to successfully identify hardware on a machine.

Am I being stupid to ask: Isn't the point of having a distro on a usb
drive that you can write to it and treat it not like a live CD distro,
but as a permanent installation?

My Ubuntu on a stick isn't a "Live" version, but is a full install. Is
there any difference between the two?

I appreciate that it probably doesn't affect the problem being
addressed.
--
Bill

Adrian Brentnall wrote:


modprobe e1000

and then

ifconfig -a

or look at the output of the dmesg command to find if it loads.

Some info from doing as you said

modprobe e1000

Knoppix didn't comment (not sure if it should have said something ?)

No, it's usually silent.

ifconfig -a

lo Link encap : local loopback
inet addr : 127:0:0:1 Mask 255.0.0.0
inet addr6 : ::1/128 Scope host
up loopback running mtu : 16434 MTE??(can't read my writing!) :1
rx packets : 12 errors : 0 dropped : 0 overruns : 0 Frame : 0
tx packets : 12 errors : 0 dropped : 0 overruns : 0 carrier : 0
Collisions : 0 Txqueueln : 0
Rxbytes : 600 (600.0 b) Txbyters : 600 (600.0 b)

Still not registered a driver to the NIC.

dmesg

(loadsa log messages - ending in
Intel Pro/1000 network driver V7.2.9-K4


Any of this give us a clue ?
(doesn't mean a lot to me ....)

Thanks
Adrian

If you could do:

lspci

and

lspci -n

and paste both outputs back here, it is possible to identify the PCI ID and
find a driver - I'll have a look for you...

--
Tim Watts

Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Can you confirm it's a lack of drivers ? Sure the card is enabled in
the BIOS and actually works ?

Yes - under Windows

Note that madwifi is a Linux progam which allows Windows drivers
to be used under Linux

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

Tim Watts wrote:
Adrian Brentnall wrote:


modprobe e1000

and then

ifconfig -a

or look at the output of the dmesg command to find if it loads.

Some info from doing as you said

modprobe e1000

Knoppix didn't comment (not sure if it should have said something ?)

No, it's usually silent.

ifconfig -a

lo Link encap : local loopback
inet addr : 127:0:0:1 Mask 255.0.0.0
inet addr6 : ::1/128 Scope host
up loopback running mtu : 16434 MTE??(can't read my writing!) :1
rx packets : 12 errors : 0 dropped : 0 overruns : 0 Frame : 0
tx packets : 12 errors : 0 dropped : 0 overruns : 0 carrier : 0
Collisions : 0 Txqueueln : 0
Rxbytes : 600 (600.0 b) Txbyters : 600 (600.0 b)

Still not registered a driver to the NIC.

dmesg

(loadsa log messages - ending in
Intel Pro/1000 network driver V7.2.9-K4


Any of this give us a clue ?
(doesn't mean a lot to me ....)

Thanks
Adrian

If you could do:

lspci

and

lspci -n

and paste both outputs back here, it is possible to identify the PCI ID and
find a driver - I'll have a look for you...


Interesting.. my integrated boards (both Intel but different CPUS) show...

03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 01)

so it looks like that's a common chipset. generic driver is IIRC '8168'

there is a knoppx netconfig propgram..try running that..

On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI Folks
Recent discussions about recovering files from broken Windows installs
reminded me that I _always_ meant to take a look at Linux....

Downloaded Knoppix and created a bootable USB 'pendisk'.
So far, so good.
Actually boots as well!

Unfortunately, Knoppix seems unable to find my lan card -
and googling around the problem only adds to the confusion as folks
start bandying around all kinds of techie stuff g -
I was hoping for a 'windows-like' install (as in, it finds the hardware
& runs it) rather than delving about in the pc's innards.

PC is Dell Vostro 200, netcard is on the motherboard but Knoppix
couldn't find a USB wireless card either...

Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Thanks
Adrian
Try Ubuntu. The install CD can be used as a live disc, or installed. I'm
using it now on a IBM Thinkpad, and it detected *all* of the hardware
successfully.

On 21/06/2011 00:05, Timothy Murphy wrote:
Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Can you confirm it's a lack of drivers ? Sure the card is enabled in
the BIOS and actually works ?

Yes - under Windows

Note that madwifi is a Linux progam which allows Windows drivers
to be used under Linux

Thanks - but the Wifi was only really a last-ditch 'let's try this'
thing - I'd much rather connect via the wired network..
Adrian

On 21/06/2011 00:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
Adrian Brentnall wrote:


modprobe e1000

and then

ifconfig -a

or look at the output of the dmesg command to find if it loads.

Some info from doing as you said

modprobe e1000

Knoppix didn't comment (not sure if it should have said something ?)

No, it's usually silent.

ifconfig -a

lo Link encap : local loopback
inet addr : 127:0:0:1 Mask 255.0.0.0
inet addr6 : ::1/128 Scope host
up loopback running mtu : 16434 MTE??(can't read my writing!) :1
rx packets : 12 errors : 0 dropped : 0 overruns : 0 Frame : 0
tx packets : 12 errors : 0 dropped : 0 overruns : 0 carrier : 0
Collisions : 0 Txqueueln : 0
Rxbytes : 600 (600.0 b) Txbyters : 600 (600.0 b)

Still not registered a driver to the NIC.

dmesg

(loadsa log messages - ending in
Intel Pro/1000 network driver V7.2.9-K4


Any of this give us a clue ?
(doesn't mean a lot to me ....)

Thanks
Adrian

If you could do:

lspci

and
lspci -n

and paste both outputs back here, it is possible to identify the PCI
ID and find a driver - I'll have a look for you...


Interesting.. my integrated boards (both Intel but different CPUS) show...

03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 01)

so it looks like that's a common chipset. generic driver is IIRC '8168'

there is a knoppx netconfig propgram..try running that..


I think I did try that - but not a lot of success...
Last night I did the lspi / lspi -n thing - but couldn't work out where
to save the resultant file (got as far as copy/paste into Open Office -
but ended up printing the text! - Will scan it back in and provide a
weblink in a moment or two...)

Thanks
Adrian

On 21/06/2011 08:05, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 20/06/11 15:07, Adrian Brentnall wrote:
HI Folks
Recent discussions about recovering files from broken Windows installs
reminded me that I _always_ meant to take a look at Linux....

Downloaded Knoppix and created a bootable USB 'pendisk'.
So far, so good.
Actually boots as well!

Unfortunately, Knoppix seems unable to find my lan card -
and googling around the problem only adds to the confusion as folks
start bandying around all kinds of techie stuff g -
I was hoping for a 'windows-like' install (as in, it finds the hardware
& runs it) rather than delving about in the pc's innards.

PC is Dell Vostro 200, netcard is on the motherboard but Knoppix
couldn't find a USB wireless card either...

Is Linux still the preserve of geeks - or is there a "plug'n'play" live
distro available?

Thanks
Adrian
Try Ubuntu. The install CD can be used as a live disc, or installed. I'm
using it now on a IBM Thinkpad, and it detected *all* of the hardware
successfully.

Hi Chris
That's a couple of votes for Ubuntu....
thanks - I'll look into it.

(Actually - I think I d'loaded the image last night - need to find
another memory stick! g)

Adrian

On 21/06/2011 08:18, Huge wrote:
On 2011-06-21, Adrian wrote:

Last night I did the lspi / lspi -n thing - but couldn't work out where
to save the resultant file (got as far as copy/paste into Open Office -
but ended up printing the text! - Will scan it back in and provide a
weblink in a moment or two...)

lspci ~/file.txt




Hi
I knew it'd be something easy like that!
Anyway - the listing is now here

http://www.ambquality.co.uk/debug1.jpg

Actually - I was a bit uncertain of where I could save the file to -
I didn't see anything that looked like my C: drive, and wasn't sure how
much room there was left on the pendrive, and didn't want to break it
completely!

Clearly I don;t have the right 'pioneer spirit' !g
Adrian

On 20/06/2011 21:04, Tim Watts wrote:
Adrian Brentnall wrote:


modprobe e1000

and then

ifconfig -a

or look at the output of the dmesg command to find if it loads.

Some info from doing as you said

modprobe e1000

Knoppix didn't comment (not sure if it should have said something ?)

No, it's usually silent.

ifconfig -a

lo Link encap : local loopback
inet addr : 127:0:0:1 Mask 255.0.0.0
inet addr6 : ::1/128 Scope host
up loopback running mtu : 16434 MTE??(can't read my writing!) :1
rx packets : 12 errors : 0 dropped : 0 overruns : 0 Frame : 0
tx packets : 12 errors : 0 dropped : 0 overruns : 0 carrier : 0
Collisions : 0 Txqueueln : 0
Rxbytes : 600 (600.0 b) Txbyters : 600 (600.0 b)

Still not registered a driver to the NIC.

dmesg

(loadsa log messages - ending in
Intel Pro/1000 network driver V7.2.9-K4


Any of this give us a clue ?
(doesn't mean a lot to me ....)

Thanks
Adrian

If you could do:

lspci

and

lspci -n

and paste both outputs back here, it is possible to identify the PCI ID and
find a driver - I'll have a look for you...


Hi Tim
That's very kind of you....

There's a copy of the debug info here

http://www.ambquality.co.uk/debug1.jpg

Thanks
Adrian

Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Last night I did the lspi
Anyway - the listing is now here

http://www.ambquality.co.uk/debug1.jpg

Wow that's one confused bunny. How old is the knoppix version, and how
new is the motherboard?

On 21/06/2011 08:31, Andy Burns wrote:
Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Last night I did the lspi
Anyway - the listing is now here

http://www.ambquality.co.uk/debug1.jpg

Wow that's one confused bunny. How old is the knoppix version, and how
new is the motherboard?

Hi
Me or the distro ? g
I'll assume you meant the distro....

The file was named
KNOPPIX_V5.1.1CD-2007-01-04-EN.iso

and the motherboard lives inside a Dell that was purchased maybe 3 years
ago...

I see there's now a 6.2 - perhaps that's a better bet ?

Thanks
Adrian

Adrian Brentnall wrote:

On 21/06/2011 08:31, Andy Burns wrote:

Wow that's one confused bunny.

I'll assume you meant the distro....

Yeah, never seen a distro recognise *none* of the hardware ...

The file was named
KNOPPIX_V5.1.1CD-2007-01-04-EN.iso
and the motherboard lives inside a Dell that was purchased maybe 3 years
ago...

The first entry for your PCI controller in the PCI-IDs database stems
from December 2006,

http://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/8086/29c1

The right voodoo on the kernel boot line *might* persuade it to use
older drivers for similar PCI IDs that would work, but probably not the
sort of under-th-bonnet furtling you want when you're trying Linux for
the first time (useful to know eventually though).

So yes, a newer distro should help.

On 21/06/2011 08:49, Andy Burns wrote:
Adrian Brentnall wrote:

On 21/06/2011 08:31, Andy Burns wrote:

Wow that's one confused bunny.

I'll assume you meant the distro....

Yeah, never seen a distro recognise *none* of the hardware ...

The file was named
KNOPPIX_V5.1.1CD-2007-01-04-EN.iso
and the motherboard lives inside a Dell that was purchased maybe 3 years
ago...

The first entry for your PCI controller in the PCI-IDs database stems
from December 2006,

http://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/8086/29c1

The right voodoo on the kernel boot line *might* persuade it to use
older drivers for similar PCI IDs that would work, but probably not the
sort of under-th-bonnet furtling you want when you're trying Linux for
the first time (useful to know eventually though).

So yes, a newer distro should help.

Hi Andy
Thanks for that - downloading a later distro now....
looks like it might take a while g

Thanks
Adrian

On 21/06/2011 09:33, Huge wrote:
On 2011-06-21, Adrian wrote:
On 21/06/2011 08:18, Huge wrote:
On 2011-06-21, Adrian wrote:

Last night I did the lspi / lspi -n thing - but couldn't work out where
to save the resultant file (got as far as copy/paste into Open Office -
but ended up printing the text! - Will scan it back in and provide a
weblink in a moment or two...)

lspci ~/file.txt




Hi
I knew it'd be something easy like that!
Anyway - the listing is now here

http://www.ambquality.co.uk/debug1.jpg

Actually - I was a bit uncertain of where I could save the file to -
I didn't see anything that looked like my C: drive,

There is no such thing in Linux, fortunately. Drive letters are a hideous
50 year old anachronism which should have been swept away years ago.

Anyway, the "~" means "my home directory" in the command line I gave.

HI
Ah - OK.....
So if I'd used the command line you suggested

lspci ~/file.txt

would I then be able to boot up the PC under Windows and see the
resultant file, in order to copy/paste the info into an email ?

I'm guessing that file would be sitting on the pendrive..... somewhere....?

Still downloading the later version of Knoppix in the hope that it can
see my hardware.

Adrian

Adrian Brentnall wrote:



I think I did try that - but not a lot of success...
Last night I did the lspi / lspi -n thing - but couldn't work out where
to save the resultant file (got as far as copy/paste into Open Office -
but ended up printing the text! - Will scan it back in and provide a
weblink in a moment or two...)

Thanks
Adrian

Either do it in a graphical terminal window (Usually under
Menu/Accessories/Terminal)

select the text and middle-click paste into your newsreader

or right click the terminal window, Copy then paste as usual.


If all Dell Vostros are the same (big assumption) then you might have a
RTL8111/8168B chip. Those can be a pain as you may have to download and
install a driver:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=723569

But I can tell you for certain with your lcpsi (-n) output.

The reason I'd like both outputs, is the second gives the exact PCI ID/subID
which is easy to check online what it really is (and I can peek in the
driver source and confirm that download-X will actually load against it)

The first version of lspci saves a bit of time because I can spot which one
in the -n list is actually the NIC without checking them all...



--
Tim Watts

Adrian Brentnall wrote:

Note that madwifi is a Linux progam which allows Windows drivers
to be used under Linux

Thanks - but the Wifi was only really a last-ditch 'let's try this'
thing - I'd much rather connect via the wired network..

I think you're very wise.
I only use madwifi if it is absolutely vital.
(I last used it with a no-name PCMCIA WiFi card I bought at Lidl.)

Incidentally, I googled quickly for your device,
and it was clear that many people have had problems with it under Linux.
In fact I didn't see anyone who had solved the problem.

I doubt if changing the distro would make much difference -
they all use the same kernel, and we are talking about a kernel module.

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland