Article in local paper about a cable theft resulting in 400volts being fed
to a pub and destroying almost everything electrical. I suppose it was an
earth wire on a transformer.

It occurred to me that I didn't know if a typical domestic set-up would
react to this - would the trips activate? In view of the increasing number
of scroats who have a hunger for cable, is there anything a householder can
do to protect against such surges?


Regards

John Plant

DerbyBoy wrote:

Article in local paper about a cable theft resulting in 400volts being fed
to a pub and destroying almost everything electrical. I suppose it was an
earth wire on a transformer.

It occurred to me that I didn't know if a typical domestic set-up would
react to this - would the trips activate? In view of the increasing number
of scroats who have a hunger for cable, is there anything a householder
can do to protect against such surges?

Can't think of any protection - this isn't a little spike that can be
potentially dissipated. This will likely carry the full force of the local
supply.

--
Tim Watts

On Jun 9, 6:08*pm, "DerbyBoy" No-one wrote:
Article in local paper about a cable theft resulting in 400volts being fed
to a pub and destroying almost everything electrical. I suppose it was an
earth wire on a transformer.

It occurred to me that I didn't know if a typical domestic set-up would
react to this - would the trips activate? In view of the increasing number
of scroats who have a hunger for cable, is there anything a householder can
do to protect against such surges?

Regards

John Plant

If the neutral wire was stolen and the sytem was locally unblanced
then a higher than usual voltage would result on the phases taking the
least current.
And lower voltage in the phases drawing the most current.

On Jun 9, 6:08*pm, "DerbyBoy" No-one wrote:
Article in local paper about a cable theft resulting in 400volts being fed
to a pub and destroying almost everything electrical. I suppose it was an
earth wire on a transformer.

It occurred to me that I didn't know if a typical domestic set-up would
react to this - would the trips activate? In view of the increasing number
of scroats who have a hunger for cable, is there anything a householder can
do to protect against such surges?

Regards

John Plant

BTW, it would not be a surge, the effect would remain as long as the
neutral wire was missing.
Offhand, I can't think of any way of protecting on's self against
this. Light bulbs would be soonest effected. You might notice they
were burning unusually brightly. Most stuff will stand a degree of
overvoltage.

harry wrote:
On Jun 9, 6:08Â*pm, "DerbyBoy" No-one wrote:
Article in local paper about a cable theft resulting in 400volts being fed
to a pub and destroying almost everything electrical. I suppose it was an
earth wire on a transformer.

It occurred to me that I didn't know if a typical domestic set-up would
react to this - would the trips activate? In view of the increasing number
of scroats who have a hunger for cable, is there anything a householder can
do to protect against such surges?

Regards

John Plant

If the neutral wire was stolen and the sytem was locally unblanced
then a higher than usual voltage would result on the phases taking the
least current.
And lower voltage in the phases drawing the most current.

We had a fault like this on the local supply from the nearest
transformer in Colchester. One third of the houses fed by the
transformer got extra high '250' volts, one third got less and I'm not
really sure what the remaining third got. It was a fault as opposed
to someone stealing the wire. In our house it killed a couple of PC
power supplies and blew a some lamp bulbs but that was about it.

--
Chris Green

wrote:

We had a fault like this on the local supply from the nearest
transformer in Colchester. One third of the houses fed by the
transformer got extra high '250' volts, one third got less and I'm not
really sure what the remaining third got. It was a fault as opposed
to someone stealing the wire. In our house it killed a couple of PC
power supplies and blew a some lamp bulbs but that was about it.

Who covered your costs?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Jun 9, 8:09*pm, wrote:
harry wrote:
On Jun 9, 6:08*pm, "DerbyBoy" No-one wrote:
Article in local paper about a cable theft resulting in 400volts being fed
to a pub and destroying almost everything electrical. I suppose it was an
earth wire on a transformer.

It occurred to me that I didn't know if a typical domestic set-up would
react to this - would the trips activate? In view of the increasing number
of scroats who have a hunger for cable, is there anything a householder can
do to protect against such surges?

Regards

John Plant

If the neutral wire was *stolen and the sytem was locally unblanced
then a higher than usual voltage would result on the phases taking the
least current.
And lower voltage in the phases drawing the most current.

We had a fault like this on the local supply from the nearest
transformer in Colchester. *One third of the houses fed by the
transformer got extra high '250' volts, one third got less and I'm not
really sure what the remaining third got. *It was a fault as opposed
to someone stealing the wire. *In our house it killed a couple of PC
power supplies and blew a some lamp bulbs but that was about it.

--
Chris Green

I posted this on 25th March - same problem reported in Hull local rag
http://tinyurl.com/63cms9e

On 09/06/2011 18:08, DerbyBoy wrote:
Article in local paper about a cable theft resulting in 400volts being
fed to a pub and destroying almost everything electrical. I suppose it
was an earth wire on a transformer.

It occurred to me that I didn't know if a typical domestic set-up would
react to this - would the trips activate? In view of the increasing
number of scroats who have a hunger for cable, is there anything a
householder can do to protect against such surges?

Someone did tell me that there is a very simple solution to this which
is fitted as standard by the power companies in some less civilised
countries where copper theft is much more common.

If I remember correctly it's something like this: an RCD is fitted with
an appropriate value resistor to earth so that the RCD does not trip
with the normal voltage but when the voltage increases the current
through the resistor to earth increases and trips the RCD thus
disconnecting everything from the mains supply. When the cable is
replaced you just have to reset the RCD.

I wouldn't recommend trying it though unless you really know what you
are doing and even then I think copper thefts are still sufficiently
rare that it wouldn't be worth all the false trips you would probably get.

On Jun 9, 8:35*pm, Chris J Dixon wrote:
wrote:
We had a fault like this on the local supply from the nearest
transformer in Colchester. *One third of the houses fed by the
transformer got extra high '250' volts, one third got less and I'm not
really sure what the remaining third got. *It was a fault as opposed
to someone stealing the wire. *In our house it killed a couple of PC
power supplies and blew a some lamp bulbs but that was about it.

Who covered your costs?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon *Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

The voltage has to remain within statutory limits. If it could be
shown the power company let it go outside limits then their fault.

Chris J Dixon wrote:
wrote:

We had a fault like this on the local supply from the nearest
transformer in Colchester. One third of the houses fed by the
transformer got extra high '250' volts, one third got less and I'm not
really sure what the remaining third got. It was a fault as opposed
to someone stealing the wire. In our house it killed a couple of PC
power supplies and blew a some lamp bulbs but that was about it.

Who covered your costs?

The electricity supplier, they paid against bills for replacement PC
power supplies etc. I guess they felt fairly lucky in our case as I
didn't charge them for a whole PC.

--
Chris Green

On Thu, 9 Jun 2011 22:14:33 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

Who covered your costs?

The voltage has to remain within statutory limits. If it could be
shown the power company let it go outside limits then their fault.

As we are talking private comapnies who only exist to give their
shareholders dividends I wouldn't be at all surprised if they didn't
invoke force majeure.

Household contents insurance might cover it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 10/06/2011 06:14, harry wrote:
On Jun 9, 8:35 pm, Chris J wrote:
wrote:
We had a fault like this on the local supply from the nearest
transformer in Colchester. One third of the houses fed by the
transformer got extra high '250' volts, one third got less and I'm not
really sure what the remaining third got. It was a fault as opposed
to someone stealing the wire. In our house it killed a couple of PC
power supplies and blew a some lamp bulbs but that was about it.

Who covered your costs?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

The voltage has to remain within statutory limits. If it could be
shown the power company let it go outside limits then their fault.

It is not an absolute requirement. The legislation allows for variation
from the declared voltage and frequency in exceptional circumstances.

In practice, it will probably be the supply company's insurers who cover
the cost of any consequential damage if it was an equipment failure. I'm
not sure what the position would be if it was due to theft of cable.
When I was in the industry, the only place that was expected to happen
was in Nigeria, where some of our engineers were seconded. They had to
make sure that all high voltage equipment was live before they left each
evening, or it would not be there next day.

Colin Bignell

I think copper thefts are still sufficiently
rare that it wouldn't be worth all the false trips you would probably get.

hmm dunno about rare,
the big substation that feeds this area has had loads of cameras, beam break
sensors and stuff like that recently installed, not heard of any thefts from
it so seems to be a precautionary measure,

mind, a few years back a security guard confronted a couple of pikeys
nicking the signaling cable at a train station, one of them promptly took
off most of his jaw with a shovel before they legged it,

On 10/06/2011 09:09, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 10/06/2011 06:14, harry wrote:
On Jun 9, 8:35 pm, Chris J wrote:
wrote:
We had a fault like this on the local supply from the nearest
transformer in Colchester. One third of the houses fed by the
transformer got extra high '250' volts, one third got less and I'm not
really sure what the remaining third got. It was a fault as opposed
to someone stealing the wire. In our house it killed a couple of PC
power supplies and blew a some lamp bulbs but that was about it.

Who covered your costs?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

The voltage has to remain within statutory limits. If it could be
shown the power company let it go outside limits then their fault.

It is not an absolute requirement. The legislation allows for variation
from the declared voltage and frequency in exceptional circumstances.

In practice, it will probably be the supply company's insurers who cover
the cost of any consequential damage if it was an equipment failure. I'm
not sure what the position would be if it was due to theft of cable.
When I was in the industry, the only place that was expected to happen
was in Nigeria, where some of our engineers were seconded. They had to
make sure that all high voltage equipment was live before they left each
evening, or it would not be there next day.

Colin Bignell

Ah, Nigeria. I sent a load of equipment there to refurbish/replace the
control systems for three large gas engine/compressor units. We shipped
the stuff in containers, had customs inspect each container as it
arrived and immediately welded the doors shut. Angle grinder job to get
them open at site.

SteveW

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:36:31 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 10/06/2011 09:09, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 10/06/2011 06:14, harry wrote:
On Jun 9, 8:35 pm, Chris J wrote:
wrote:
We had a fault like this on the local supply from the nearest
transformer in Colchester. One third of the houses fed by the
transformer got extra high '250' volts, one third got less and I'm not
really sure what the remaining third got. It was a fault as opposed
to someone stealing the wire. In our house it killed a couple of PC
power supplies and blew a some lamp bulbs but that was about it.

Who covered your costs?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

The voltage has to remain within statutory limits. If it could be
shown the power company let it go outside limits then their fault.

It is not an absolute requirement. The legislation allows for variation
from the declared voltage and frequency in exceptional circumstances.

In practice, it will probably be the supply company's insurers who cover
the cost of any consequential damage if it was an equipment failure. I'm
not sure what the position would be if it was due to theft of cable.
When I was in the industry, the only place that was expected to happen
was in Nigeria, where some of our engineers were seconded. They had to
make sure that all high voltage equipment was live before they left each
evening, or it would not be there next day.

Colin Bignell

Ah, Nigeria. I sent a load of equipment there to refurbish/replace the
control systems for three large gas engine/compressor units. We shipped
the stuff in containers, had customs inspect each container as it
arrived and immediately welded the doors shut. Angle grinder job to get
them open at site.

For a moment I thought you were going to finish by saying:

"...and the stuff _still_ vanished by the time they arrived on site."

Nick

Nick Odell wrote in
:

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:36:31 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 10/06/2011 09:09, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
On 10/06/2011 06:14, harry wrote:
On Jun 9, 8:35 pm, Chris J wrote:
wrote:
We had a fault like this on the local supply from the nearest
transformer in Colchester. One third of the houses fed by the
transformer got extra high '250' volts, one third got less and
I'm not really sure what the remaining third got. It was a fault
as opposed to someone stealing the wire. In our house it killed a
couple of PC power supplies and blew a some lamp bulbs but that
was about it.

Who covered your costs?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

The voltage has to remain within statutory limits. If it could be
shown the power company let it go outside limits then their fault.

It is not an absolute requirement. The legislation allows for
variation from the declared voltage and frequency in exceptional
circumstances.

In practice, it will probably be the supply company's insurers who
cover the cost of any consequential damage if it was an equipment
failure. I'm not sure what the position would be if it was due to
theft of cable. When I was in the industry, the only place that was
expected to happen was in Nigeria, where some of our engineers were
seconded. They had to make sure that all high voltage equipment was
live before they left each evening, or it would not be there next
day.

Colin Bignell

Ah, Nigeria. I sent a load of equipment there to refurbish/replace the
control systems for three large gas engine/compressor units. We
shipped the stuff in containers, had customs inspect each container as
it arrived and immediately welded the doors shut. Angle grinder job to
get them open at site.

For a moment I thought you were going to finish by saying:

"...and the stuff _still_ vanished by the time they arrived on site."

He said Nigeria not Liverpool

--

All the best,

Chris

In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:36:31 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 10/06/2011 09:09, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
When I was in the industry, the only place that was expected to happen
was in Nigeria, where some of our engineers were seconded. They had to
make sure that all high voltage equipment was live before they left each
evening, or it would not be there next day.

Ah, Nigeria. I sent a load of equipment there to refurbish/replace the
control systems for three large gas engine/compressor units. We shipped
the stuff in containers, had customs inspect each container as it
arrived and immediately welded the doors shut. Angle grinder job to get
them open at site.

For a moment I thought you were going to finish by saying:

"...and the stuff _still_ vanished by the time they arrived on site."

No, but he got emails offering to sell it back to him for the next six months.

Nick
--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 29th March 2010)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

On Jun 11, 2:18*am, Nick Leverton wrote:
In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:





On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:36:31 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 10/06/2011 09:09, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
When I was in the industry, the only place that was expected to happen
was in Nigeria, where some of our engineers were seconded. They had to
make sure that all high voltage equipment was live before they left each
evening, or it would not be there next day.

Ah, Nigeria. I sent a load of equipment there to refurbish/replace the
control systems for three large gas engine/compressor units. We shipped
the stuff in containers, had customs inspect each container as it
arrived and immediately welded the doors shut. Angle grinder job to get
them open at site.

For a moment I thought you were going to finish by saying:

"...and the stuff _still_ vanished by the time they arrived on site."

No, but he got emails offering to sell it back to him for the next six months.

Nick
--
Serendipity:http://www.leverton.org/blosxom(last update 29th March 2010)
* * * * "The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
* * * * * * * * -- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I had stuff stolen from me in the street in PNG. They sold me my
airtickets and passport back the next day.

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:29:28 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

I had stuff stolen from me in the street in PNG. They sold me my
airtickets and passport back the next day.

Sounds like a good business model. You've got your stuff back for
some one else to nick and sell back later on.

--
Cheers
Dave.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Nick Odell
saying something like:

Ah, Nigeria. I sent a load of equipment there to refurbish/replace the
control systems for three large gas engine/compressor units. We shipped
the stuff in containers, had customs inspect each container as it
arrived and immediately welded the doors shut. Angle grinder job to get
them open at site.

For a moment I thought you were going to finish by saying:

"...and the stuff _still_ vanished by the time they arrived on site."

"... and not a trace of how they did it."

harry wrote:
On Jun 11, 2:18 am, Nick Leverton wrote:
In article ,
Nick Odell wrote:





On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:36:31 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:
On 10/06/2011 09:09, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
When I was in the industry, the only place that was expected to happen
was in Nigeria, where some of our engineers were seconded. They had to
make sure that all high voltage equipment was live before they left each
evening, or it would not be there next day.
Ah, Nigeria. I sent a load of equipment there to refurbish/replace the
control systems for three large gas engine/compressor units. We shipped
the stuff in containers, had customs inspect each container as it
arrived and immediately welded the doors shut. Angle grinder job to get
them open at site.
For a moment I thought you were going to finish by saying:
"...and the stuff _still_ vanished by the time they arrived on site."
No, but he got emails offering to sell it back to him for the next six months.

Nick
--
Serendipity:http://www.leverton.org/blosxom(last update 29th March 2010)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I had stuff stolen from me in the street in PNG. They sold me my
airtickets and passport back the next day.

This is essentially how government works. They take the money from you
and subtract a management fee, and give you back services you could have
bought for yourself cheaper and better.

On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 13:02:59 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

This is essentially how government works. They take the money from you
and subtract a management fee, and give you back services you could have
bought for yourself cheaper and better.

Sometimes get cheaper and better. Just looked at getting Lasting
Power of Attorney set up. £120 fee for registration. You may well
need both types, one is for property/money the other health/well
being. Each attracts a seperate £120 fee so fo a couple that is £480!
Now I don't mind paying a single small fee (say £25) to cover real
costs (paper, postage) but that strikes me as paying their fing wages
which I'm surely doing already via tax...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 11/06/2011 00:09, Nick Odell wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:36:31 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

Ah, Nigeria. I sent a load of equipment there to refurbish/replace the
control systems for three large gas engine/compressor units. We shipped
the stuff in containers, had customs inspect each container as it
arrived and immediately welded the doors shut. Angle grinder job to get
them open at site.

For a moment I thought you were going to finish by saying:

"...and the stuff _still_ vanished by the time they arrived on site."

Nick

No. The stuff was okay, but the supervisor was kidnapped a few times!

SteveW

On Jun 11, 12:01*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:29:28 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:
I had stuff stolen from me in the street in PNG. *They sold me my
airtickets and passport back the next day.

Sounds like a good business model. You've got your stuff back for
some one else to nick and sell back later on.

--
Cheers
Dave.

That's what I was thinking at the time.

On Jun 11, 6:36 pm, Steve Walker
wrote:
On 11/06/2011 00:09, Nick Odell wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:36:31 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

Ah, Nigeria. I sent a load of equipment there to refurbish/replace the
control systems for three large gas engine/compressor units. We shipped
the stuff in containers, had customs inspect each container as it
arrived and immediately welded the doors shut. Angle grinder job to get
them open at site.

For a moment I thought you were going to finish by saying:

"...and the stuff _still_ vanished by the time they arrived on site."

Nick

No. The stuff was okay, but the supervisor was kidnapped a few times!


presuambly by his relatives.....

Jim K

Huge wrote:

Ah, Nigeria. When I worked for Xerox, we sent a shipload of copier spares
there, which all vanished between the port and the warehouse. A few days
later someone strolled into our offices and offered to sell them all back
to us.

Ah, Essex, we had a transit, chipper and trailer stolen from a guarded
compound. A few days later...

AJH

On Jun 12, 10:54 am, Huge wrote:
On 2011-06-12, andrew wrote:

Huge wrote:

Ah, Nigeria. When I worked for Xerox, we sent a shipload of copier spares
there, which all vanished between the port and the warehouse. A few days
later someone strolled into our offices and offered to sell them all back
to us.

Ah, Essex, we had a transit, chipper and trailer stolen from a guarded
compound. A few days later...

LOL

I bet no-one ever threw a corpse over your compound wall, though? (According
to my friend who was on a 2 year secondment there, they threw it back.)

shurely they'd just use the chipper and no one could throw it back
over ;)

Jim K

On 12/06/2011 10:12, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 11, 6:36 pm, Steve Walker
wrote:
On 11/06/2011 00:09, Nick Odell wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:36:31 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

Ah, Nigeria. I sent a load of equipment there to refurbish/replace the
control systems for three large gas engine/compressor units. We shipped
the stuff in containers, had customs inspect each container as it
arrived and immediately welded the doors shut. Angle grinder job to get
them open at site.

For a moment I thought you were going to finish by saying:

"...and the stuff _still_ vanished by the time they arrived on site."

Nick

No. The stuff was okay, but the supervisor was kidnapped a few times!


presuambly by his relatives.....

Jim K

No. The supervisor was British, the locals kidnapped him a few times for
small ransoms of either cash or work done for the local community - all
quite civilised by the sound of it!

SteveW