I've read this piece on the website of a local paper:

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.c...l/article.html
or http://tinyurl.com/68kao8g

Probably written by someone with a proverbial lack of knowledge, but
this bit puzzled me:

'All properties in the UK have electricity supplied at 240 volts.
However, without copper earthing, this can soar to 400 volts'.

Any ideas?

On Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:23:40 -0700 (PDT), Part timer wrote:

'All properties in the UK have electricity supplied at 240 volts.
However, without copper earthing, this can soar to 400 volts'.

415v between phases, 240 phase to neutral. The neutral is bonded to
real earth at the substation. Remove that bond and weird things can
happen depending on how well balanced the load is on the 3 phases. It
may also be influenced by how the loads are connected, delta or star.
That is about the extent of my 3 phase knowledge, someone will be
along in a while with chapter and verse.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 25/03/2011 14:41, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:23:40 -0700 (PDT), Part timer wrote:

415v between phases, 240 phase to neutral. The neutral is bonded to
real earth at the substation. Remove that bond and weird things can
happen [...]

It's neutral, not earthing, links that are being stolen, AFAIK. Each
outgoing circuit will have three line fuses and a solid neutral link,
the last being removable for complete isolation. Take away the neutral
bond on an unbalanced 3-ph 4-wire circuit and you unbalance the phase
voltages, some rising and some falling, wrt the now-floating neutral
conductor in the cable.

--
Andy

Part timer wrote:

Any ideas?

Pikeys

--
Adam

On Mar 25, 3:31*pm, Andy Wade wrote:
On 25/03/2011 14:41, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:23:40 -0700 (PDT), Part timer wrote:
415v between phases, 240 phase to neutral. The neutral is bonded to
real earth at the substation. Remove that bond and weird things can
happen [...]

It's neutral, not earthing, links that are being stolen, AFAIK. *Each
outgoing circuit will have three line fuses and a solid neutral link,
the last being removable for complete isolation. *Take away the neutral
bond on an unbalanced 3-ph 4-wire circuit and you unbalance the phase
voltages, some rising and some falling, wrt the now-floating neutral
conductor in the cable.

--
Andy

In Norway there is no Neutral. Everyone gets three phases and the
sockets in each room uses two of them. there is 220V between the
phases. there's a fuse in each of the three.

I was told the reason was to reduce the maximum voltage relative to
earth.

if you blow one fuse then you end up having some rooms with their
sockets in series with the sockets in another room - turn on the
heater in one room and the TV comes on in the next room etc.

Robert

Part timer explained :
I've read this piece on the website of a local paper:

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.c...l/article.html
or http://tinyurl.com/68kao8g

Probably written by someone with a proverbial lack of knowledge, but
this bit puzzled me:

'All properties in the UK have electricity supplied at 240 volts.
However, without copper earthing, this can soar to 400 volts'.

Any ideas?

All supplies are 415v 3 phase, which is 415v measured from any phase to
any other phase. The 240v is derived by connecting from any one of
those phases to a Neutral wire which is effectively the ground/ earth
connection at the sub-station. Basically, the idea is that all of the
240v supplies should be equally balanced loads on each phase, so that
no current flows down the neutral. Now if someone removes that bit of
bus-bar which connects it to ground and should the 240v supplies happen
to be badly balanced, then that 240v can rise upto the phase to phase
voltage of 415v. So instead of the 240v a domestic consumer might get
normally, they get 415v instead.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

All supplies are 415v 3 phase, which is 415v measured from any phase
to any other phase. The 240v is derived by connecting from any one of
those phases to a Neutral wire which is effectively the ground/ earth
connection at the sub-station. Basically, the idea is that all of the
240v supplies should be equally balanced loads on each phase, so that
no current flows down the neutral. Now if someone removes that bit of
bus-bar which connects it to ground and should the 240v supplies
happen to be badly balanced, then that 240v can rise upto the phase
to phase voltage of 415v. So instead of the 240v a domestic consumer
might get normally, they get 415v instead.

Is there a reasonable chance that something would burn out and (hopefully)
trip the mains switch?





--
Murphy's ultimate law is that if something that could go wrong doesn't,
it turns out that it would have been better if it had gone wrong.

On Mar 25, 1:23*pm, Part timer wrote:
I've read this piece on the website of a local paper:

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.c...-Headline/arti...
orhttp://tinyurl.com/68kao8g

Probably written by someone with a proverbial lack of knowledge, but
this bit puzzled me:

'All properties in the UK have electricity supplied at 240 volts.
However, without copper earthing, this can soar to 400 volts'.

Any ideas?

It happened to a housing development I was in 25 years ago. Builders
dug through the UG cable neutral and left 400 v on some flats due to
unbalanced load. Midlands Electric, as it was then, replaced a large
number of TV's, kettles,fridges, heaters etc. etc. which went up in
smoke and flames. No one injured fortunately.

rusty.

GB wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

All supplies are 415v 3 phase, which is 415v measured from any phase
to any other phase. The 240v is derived by connecting from any one of
those phases to a Neutral wire which is effectively the ground/ earth
connection at the sub-station. Basically, the idea is that all of the
240v supplies should be equally balanced loads on each phase, so that
no current flows down the neutral. Now if someone removes that bit of
bus-bar which connects it to ground and should the 240v supplies
happen to be badly balanced, then that 240v can rise upto the phase
to phase voltage of 415v. So instead of the 240v a domestic consumer
might get normally, they get 415v instead.

Is there a reasonable chance that something would burn out and (hopefully)
trip the mains switch?

We had a copier burn out at work one night, due to some
ill-executed site electrical maintenance. Luckily the smoke was
spotted before it took the building with it.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

In article , Andy Wade spambucket@maxw
ell.myzen.co.uk scribeth thus
On 25/03/2011 14:41, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:23:40 -0700 (PDT), Part timer wrote:

415v between phases, 240 phase to neutral. The neutral is bonded to
real earth at the substation. Remove that bond and weird things can
happen [...]

It's neutral, not earthing, links that are being stolen, AFAIK. Each
outgoing circuit will have three line fuses and a solid neutral link,
the last being removable for complete isolation. Take away the neutral
bond on an unbalanced 3-ph 4-wire circuit and you unbalance the phase
voltages, some rising and some falling, wrt the now-floating neutral
conductor in the cable.


I've noticed that the copper lightning earth's at communication sites
are now being replaced with Ally and signs to the effect of "No Copper
on this site" are starting to appear..
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
says...
Is there a reasonable chance that something would burn out and (hopefully)
trip the mains switch?

Taking the Sky box first - so not all bad.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

Any ideas?

Pikeys

Alpha mark to Adam.

(He would have merited 'Alpha +' for "pikeys, and our best hope is a
genetic engineering solution")
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

On 25/03/2011 16:04, RobertL wrote:

In Norway there is no Neutral. Everyone gets three phases and the
sockets in each room uses two of them. there is 220V between the
phases. there's a fuse in each of the three.

That's 3-ph 3-wire rather than the more usual 3-ph 4-wire. The downside
is the low line voltage 230 V rather than 400, so currents are higher.

Do industrial & commercial premises get the same, or a higher voltage?

I was told the reason was to reduce the maximum voltage relative to
earth.

Isn't it an IT system too? How are earth faults detected and cleared?

if you blow one fuse then you end up having some rooms with their
sockets in series with the sockets in another room - turn on the
heater in one room and the TV comes on in the next room etc.

Linked 3-pole MCBs would prevent that.

--
Andy

On 25/03/2011 18:02, tony sayer wrote:

I've noticed that the copper lightning earth's at communication sites
are now being replaced with Ally and signs to the effect of "No Copper
on this site" are starting to appear..

Sounds like a different sort of copper is called for...

--
Andy

"Part timer" wrote in message
...

Any ideas?

Do what I did a few weeks ago, phone 999 and have the idiot arrested.
Call the network operator too as the police won't enter the substation.

Robin wrote:
Any ideas?

Pikeys

Alpha mark to Adam.

(He would have merited 'Alpha +' for "pikeys, and our best hope is a
genetic engineering solution")

I have identified the problem. YOU suggested the solution, is it your own
idea?

--
Adam

dennis@home wrote:
"Part timer" wrote in message
...

Any ideas?

Do what I did a few weeks ago, phone 999 and have the idiot arrested.

You got yourself arrested?


--
Adam

I have identified the problem.

And it was a first class solution.

YOU suggested the solution, is it your
own idea?

Ummm - I'm not sure - I think that Austrian bloke who was painter in the
1910s might have had it first. But I don't want to be a DIY China
syndrome so I hope it's OK if I (i) stop digging and (ii) go to the pub.

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

I have identified the problem.

And it was a first class solution.

Bugger - I meant of course a first class identification of the problem.

(Why didn't SWMBO look over my shoulder sooner? Why doesn't the toast
know to land butter side up? Why doesn't Pi = 3? .........)

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

Robin wrote:
I have identified the problem.

And it was a first class solution.

Bugger - I meant of course a first class identification of the
problem.
(Why didn't SWMBO look over my shoulder sooner? Why doesn't the toast
know to land butter side up? Why doesn't Pi = 3? .........

You could blame the Jews:-)

--
Adam

Robin wrote:
I have identified the problem.
And it was a first class solution.

What? Gene pool cleansing through early-life electrocution?

Why doesn't the toast know to land butter side up?

'cos the butter moves the centre of mass slightly butter-side-wards,
so
a randomly spinning buttered slice is more predispensed to land on the
side nearest the centre of gravity - the buttered side.

Ypou could balance it out by buttering both sides, then it's equally
likely to land on either side...

JGH

On Mar 25, 1:23*pm, Part timer wrote:

Probably written by someone with a proverbial lack of knowledge, but
this bit puzzled me:

Yes, it's a real problem. Pikeys are now smart enough to realise that
nicking live busbars tends to end in Flaming Sparky Death, so they're
focussing on the earth straps instead. Once no longer bonded, it's
easy for domestic supplies to start floating around by a few hundred
volts.

On Mar 25, 6:02*pm, tony sayer wrote:

I've noticed that the copper lightning earth's at communication sites
are now being replaced with Ally and signs to the effect of "No Copper
on this site" are starting to appear..

MODplod overtime is supposed to have gone up recently too, patrolling
the perimeters of aerial farms.

In article
..com, Andy Dingley scribeth thus
On Mar 25, 1:23*pm, Part timer wrote:

Probably written by someone with a proverbial lack of knowledge, but
this bit puzzled me:

Yes, it's a real problem. Pikeys are now smart enough to realise that
nicking live busbars tends to end in Flaming Sparky Death, so they're
focussing on the earth straps instead. Once no longer bonded, it's
easy for domestic supplies to start floating around by a few hundred
volts.

Yes they nicked a lightning earth from a comms site near Peterborough
around 6 inches of copper braiding, makes me wonder just how much it
cost them in petrol to drive there and take it !?..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Bill
scribeth thus
In message , tony sayer
writes
In article
.com, Andy Dingley scribeth thus
On Mar 25, 1:23*pm, Part timer wrote:

Probably written by someone with a proverbial lack of knowledge, but
this bit puzzled me:

Yes, it's a real problem. Pikeys are now smart enough to realise that
nicking live busbars tends to end in Flaming Sparky Death, so they're
focussing on the earth straps instead. Once no longer bonded, it's
easy for domestic supplies to start floating around by a few hundred
volts.

Yes they nicked a lightning earth from a comms site near Peterborough
around 6 inches of copper braiding, makes me wonder just how much it
cost them in petrol to drive there and take it !?..

Come on Tony, do you actually think they paid for the petrol??

Well I suppose we can take that as read;!..


They also pinched the copper earth strapping from Kempston MF a few
years ago, the quick fix was rather inventive.

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/bedford_kempston-bp-01.jpg

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/bedford_kempston-bp-02.jpg

The earths for the new re-built Peterborough mast were nicked even
before they started transmissions;!..



--
Tony Sayer

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mar 25, 6:02 pm, tony sayer wrote:

I've noticed that the copper lightning earth's at communication sites
are now being replaced with Ally and signs to the effect of "No Copper
on this site" are starting to appear..

MODplod overtime is supposed to have gone up recently too, patrolling
the perimeters of aerial farms.

MoD plod? That sort of job is usually done by GuardFarce.