By request, detailed pictures of spinning a brass lid on a lathe.
Here's the finished lid on the left, with the sheet brass it was cut
from. The 100 year old original lid is at bottom right, and the other
lid I previously made is at the back. It's already become tarnished by
sitting on a hot steam engine for a few weeks:
http://i56.tinypic.com/ei5y4i.jpg

Here's the circle of brass clamped against the wooden mandrel with a
large steel washer:
http://i52.tinypic.com/23rx0sx.jpg

The edge has been pushed halfway across by the tool that is free to
rotate:
http://i52.tinypic.com/np2wqc.jpg

I didn't use any lubrication as it shouldn't be necessary when using a
roller, and I would have to burn it off when annealing.

Since the brass was too hard to spin easily, I had to anneal it half a
dozen times during the spinning operation. When the edge starts to get
wavy it's time to anneal. Annealing the brass on a brick:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2eztx8y.jpg

The edge is now pushed flat against the mandrel. The brass has to be
compressed to get rid of the excess metal on the outside. That seems
to work OK.
http://i56.tinypic.com/2dvuz5h.jpg

Trimming the rough edge:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2dheopl.jpg

A lid in place at lower right on the steam engine:
http://i55.tinypic.com/28lw86e.jpg

On Apr 24, 12:28*pm, Matty F wrote:
By request, detailed pictures of spinning a brass lid on a lathe.
Here's the finished lid on the left, with the sheet brass it was cut
from. The 100 year old original lid is at bottom right, and the other
lid I previously made is at the back. It's already become tarnished by
sitting on a hot steam engine for a few weeks:http://i56.tinypic.com/ei5y4i.jpg

Here's the circle of brass clamped against the wooden mandrel with a
large steel washer:http://i52.tinypic.com/23rx0sx.jpg

The edge has been pushed halfway across by the tool that is free to
rotate:http://i52.tinypic.com/np2wqc.jpg

I didn't use any lubrication as it shouldn't be necessary when using a
roller, and I would have to burn it off when annealing.

Since the brass was too hard to spin easily, I had to anneal it half a
dozen times during the spinning operation. When the edge starts to get
wavy it's time to anneal. Annealing the brass on a brick:http://i54.tinypic.com/2eztx8y.jpg

The edge is now pushed flat against the mandrel. The brass has to be
compressed to get rid of the excess metal on the outside. That seems
to work OK.http://i56.tinypic.com/2dvuz5h.jpg

Trimming the rough edge:http://i54.tinypic.com/2dheopl.jpg

A lid in place at lower right on the steam engine:http://i55.tinypic.com/28lw86e.jpg

Thanks Matty - I don;t have any immediate requirement but it's good
to see how it should be done. All I have to do now is to snaffle your
photos onto my pc.

Rob

On Apr 24, 12:28*pm, Matty F wrote:
By request, detailed pictures of spinning a brass lid on a lathe.
Here's the finished lid on the left, with the sheet brass it was cut
from. The 100 year old original lid is at bottom right, and the other
lid I previously made is at the back. It's already become tarnished by
sitting on a hot steam engine for a few weeks:http://i56.tinypic.com/ei5y4i.jpg

Here's the circle of brass clamped against the wooden mandrel with a
large steel washer:http://i52.tinypic.com/23rx0sx.jpg

The edge has been pushed halfway across by the tool that is free to
rotate:http://i52.tinypic.com/np2wqc.jpg

I didn't use any lubrication as it shouldn't be necessary when using a
roller, and I would have to burn it off when annealing.

Since the brass was too hard to spin easily, I had to anneal it half a
dozen times during the spinning operation. When the edge starts to get
wavy it's time to anneal. Annealing the brass on a brick:http://i54.tinypic.com/2eztx8y.jpg

The edge is now pushed flat against the mandrel. The brass has to be
compressed to get rid of the excess metal on the outside. That seems
to work OK.http://i56.tinypic.com/2dvuz5h.jpg

Trimming the rough edge:http://i54.tinypic.com/2dheopl.jpg

A lid in place at lower right on the steam engine:http://i55.tinypic.com/28lw86e.jpg

Can we drop that and he pics onto the ukdiy wiki? Then its there for
people to learn from indefinitely.


NT

On Apr 24, 11:52 pm, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 24, 12:28 pm, Matty F wrote:



By request, detailed pictures of spinning a brass lid on a lathe.
Here's the finished lid on the left, with the sheet brass it was cut
from. The 100 year old original lid is at bottom right, and the other
lid I previously made is at the back. It's already become tarnished by
sitting on a hot steam engine for a few weeks:http://i56.tinypic.com/ei5y4i.jpg

Here's the circle of brass clamped against the wooden mandrel with a
large steel washer:http://i52.tinypic.com/23rx0sx.jpg

The edge has been pushed halfway across by the tool that is free to
rotate:http://i52.tinypic.com/np2wqc.jpg

I didn't use any lubrication as it shouldn't be necessary when using a
roller, and I would have to burn it off when annealing.

Since the brass was too hard to spin easily, I had to anneal it half a
dozen times during the spinning operation. When the edge starts to get
wavy it's time to anneal. Annealing the brass on a brick:http://i54.tinypic.com/2eztx8y.jpg

The edge is now pushed flat against the mandrel. The brass has to be
compressed to get rid of the excess metal on the outside. That seems
to work OK.http://i56.tinypic.com/2dvuz5h.jpg

Trimming the rough edge:http://i54.tinypic.com/2dheopl.jpg

A lid in place at lower right on the steam engine:http://i55.tinypic.com/28lw86e.jpg

Can we drop that and he pics onto the ukdiy wiki? Then its there for
people to learn from indefinitely.

Sure. But I don't claim to be an expert, and people told me that this
wouldn't work. And I used the wrong kind of brass, because it was
free.

On Apr 24, 1:49*pm, Matty F wrote:
On Apr 24, 11:52 pm, Tabby wrote:



On Apr 24, 12:28 pm, Matty F wrote:

By request, detailed pictures of spinning a brass lid on a lathe.
Here's the finished lid on the left, with the sheet brass it was cut
from. The 100 year old original lid is at bottom right, and the other
lid I previously made is at the back. It's already become tarnished by
sitting on a hot steam engine for a few weeks:http://i56.tinypic.com/ei5y4i.jpg

Here's the circle of brass clamped against the wooden mandrel with a
large steel washer:http://i52.tinypic.com/23rx0sx.jpg

The edge has been pushed halfway across by the tool that is free to
rotate:http://i52.tinypic.com/np2wqc.jpg

I didn't use any lubrication as it shouldn't be necessary when using a
roller, and I would have to burn it off when annealing.

Since the brass was too hard to spin easily, I had to anneal it half a
dozen times during the spinning operation. When the edge starts to get
wavy it's time to anneal. Annealing the brass on a brick:http://i54.tinypic.com/2eztx8y.jpg

The edge is now pushed flat against the mandrel. The brass has to be
compressed to get rid of the excess metal on the outside. That seems
to work OK.http://i56.tinypic.com/2dvuz5h.jpg

Trimming the rough edge:http://i54.tinypic.com/2dheopl.jpg

A lid in place at lower right on the steam engine:http://i55.tinypic.com/28lw86e.jpg

Can we drop that and he pics onto the ukdiy wiki? Then its there for
people to learn from indefinitely.

Sure. But I don't claim to be an expert, and people told me that this
wouldn't work. And I used the wrong kind of brass, because it was
free.

great, ta


NT

On Apr 24, 3:13*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/04/2011 13:49, Matty F wrote:



On Apr 24, 11:52 pm, *wrote:
On Apr 24, 12:28 pm, Matty *wrote:

By request, detailed pictures of spinning a brass lid on a lathe.
Here's the finished lid on the left, with the sheet brass it was cut
from. The 100 year old original lid is at bottom right, and the other
lid I previously made is at the back. It's already become tarnished by
sitting on a hot steam engine for a few weeks:http://i56.tinypic.com/ei5y4i.jpg

Here's the circle of brass clamped against the wooden mandrel with a
large steel washer:http://i52.tinypic.com/23rx0sx.jpg

The edge has been pushed halfway across by the tool that is free to
rotate:http://i52.tinypic.com/np2wqc.jpg

I didn't use any lubrication as it shouldn't be necessary when using a
roller, and I would have to burn it off when annealing.

Since the brass was too hard to spin easily, I had to anneal it half a
dozen times during the spinning operation. When the edge starts to get
wavy it's time to anneal. Annealing the brass on a brick:http://i54.tinypic.com/2eztx8y.jpg

The edge is now pushed flat against the mandrel. The brass has to be
compressed to get rid of the excess metal on the outside. That seems
to work OK.http://i56.tinypic.com/2dvuz5h.jpg

Trimming the rough edge:http://i54.tinypic.com/2dheopl.jpg

A lid in place at lower right on the steam engine:http://i55.tinypic.com/28lw86e.jpg

Can we drop that and he pics onto the ukdiy wiki? Then its there for
people to learn from indefinitely.

Sure. But I don't claim to be an expert, and people told me that this
wouldn't work. And I used the wrong kind of brass, because it was
free.

Kind of embodies the DIY ethos nicely... not only tight
fisted^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h frugal, but interrupts the expert commentary
about how something is impossible, by actually doing it!


I've been told so many times, including on here, that things were
impossible, but done a lot of them were. There has to be a life lesson
in that somewhere.


NT

In article
,
Matty F writes
By request, detailed pictures of spinning a brass lid on a lathe.
Here's the finished lid on the left, with the sheet brass it was cut
from. The 100 year old original lid is at bottom right, and the other
lid I previously made is at the back. It's already become tarnished by
sitting on a hot steam engine for a few weeks:
http://i56.tinypic.com/ei5y4i.jpg

Here's the circle of brass clamped against the wooden mandrel with a
large steel washer:
http://i52.tinypic.com/23rx0sx.jpg

The edge has been pushed halfway across by the tool that is free to
rotate:
http://i52.tinypic.com/np2wqc.jpg

I didn't use any lubrication as it shouldn't be necessary when using a
roller, and I would have to burn it off when annealing.

Since the brass was too hard to spin easily, I had to anneal it half a
dozen times during the spinning operation. When the edge starts to get
wavy it's time to anneal. Annealing the brass on a brick:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2eztx8y.jpg

The edge is now pushed flat against the mandrel. The brass has to be
compressed to get rid of the excess metal on the outside. That seems
to work OK.
http://i56.tinypic.com/2dvuz5h.jpg

Trimming the rough edge:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2dheopl.jpg

A lid in place at lower right on the steam engine:
http://i55.tinypic.com/28lw86e.jpg

Again, lovely job and thanks for recording the stages. It almost looks
easy.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

Matty F wrote:

Sure. But I don't claim to be an expert, and people told me that this
wouldn't work. And I used the wrong kind of brass, because it was
free.

I dunno, but I find it inspiring that old crafts are still alive like this.

On Apr 25, 7:53 am, Tabby wrote:
On Apr 24, 3:13 pm, John Rumm wrote:



On 24/04/2011 13:49, Matty F wrote:

Sure. But I don't claim to be an expert, and people told me that this
wouldn't work. And I used the wrong kind of brass, because it was
free.

Kind of embodies the DIY ethos nicely... not only tight
fisted^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h frugal, but interrupts the expert commentary
about how something is impossible, by actually doing it!

I've been told so many times, including on here, that things were
impossible, but done a lot of them were. There has to be a life lesson
in that somewhere.

I have taken careful note of critical comments, and sometimes changed
the methods. The roller tool ended up way below the centre of the work
and I decided that was a good thing. If there was too much pressure
applied, the tool would bend away from the work.

I was impressed by this 1930s example of spinning aluminium.
They must have had a very big lathe:
http://i53.tinypic.com/29wtxk5.jpg

And the rest of the device is much bigger, like 50 feet high.

On 24/04/2011 23:02, Matty F wrote:
On Apr 25, 7:53 am, wrote:
On Apr 24, 3:13 pm, John wrote:



On 24/04/2011 13:49, Matty F wrote:

Sure. But I don't claim to be an expert, and people told me that this
wouldn't work. And I used the wrong kind of brass, because it was
free.

Kind of embodies the DIY ethos nicely... not only tight
fisted^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h frugal, but interrupts the expert commentary
about how something is impossible, by actually doing it!

I've been told so many times, including on here, that things were
impossible, but done a lot of them were. There has to be a life lesson
in that somewhere.

I have taken careful note of critical comments, and sometimes changed
the methods. The roller tool ended up way below the centre of the work
and I decided that was a good thing. If there was too much pressure
applied, the tool would bend away from the work.

I was impressed by this 1930s example of spinning aluminium.
They must have had a very big lathe:
http://i53.tinypic.com/29wtxk5.jpg

And the rest of the device is much bigger, like 50 feet high.


30 years ago, I went to a demonstration that included the spinning of
aluminium pans. Each one could be made well within 5 minutes, including
the two pouring lips on the side. I suspect the aluminium was of the
type that could be solution treated, so as to not go off and harden
until after treatment and working. I estimate 60 minutes after solution
treatment.

Dave

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 23:30:24 +0100, Dave
wrote:


30 years ago, I went to a demonstration that included the spinning of
aluminium pans. Each one could be made well within 5 minutes, including
the two pouring lips on the side. I suspect the aluminium was of the
type that could be solution treated, so as to not go off and harden
until after treatment and working.

I've never heard of "solution treated" aluminium. Have you any details
please? Which solution?

TIA -

--
Frank Erskine

On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 04:28:25 -0700, Matty F wrote:
A lid in place at lower right on the steam engine:
http://i55.tinypic.com/28lw86e.jpg

Nice job!

JOOI, do you scribe / stamp something on the underside of the lid (or
somehow log elsewhere) the fact that it's a reproduction rather than
period part? I'm not sure what's typical practice for restoration of
engineering items? (I suppose over the working lifetime of the engine it
may have had all sorts of tweaks and parts replaced with something
slightly different anyway)

cheers

Jules

On 25/04/2011 00:26, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 23:30:24 +0100,
wrote:


30 years ago, I went to a demonstration that included the spinning of
aluminium pans. Each one could be made well within 5 minutes, including
the two pouring lips on the side. I suspect the aluminium was of the
type that could be solution treated, so as to not go off and harden
until after treatment and working.

I've never heard of "solution treated" aluminium. Have you any details
please? Which solution?

I used to work in the aerospace industry and the solution treatment was
used so that L72 and L73 could be softened to work the sheets to complex
shapes. The treatment would last for about 4 hours before the sheet
would revert back to the unworkable state.

I can't supply any details, as that was not my area.

L72 used to convert into L73 after it generated an oxide coating on it,
giving it a protection against corrosion.

Dave

On 24/04/2011 20:53, Tabby wrote:

I've been told so many times, including on here, that things were
impossible, but done a lot of them were. There has to be a life lesson
in that somewhere.


Clarke's First Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws

Andy

On Apr 26, 4:22 am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 04:28:25 -0700, Matty F wrote:
A lid in place at lower right on the steam engine:
http://i55.tinypic.com/28lw86e.jpg

Nice job!

JOOI, do you scribe / stamp something on the underside of the lid (or
somehow log elsewhere) the fact that it's a reproduction rather than
period part? I'm not sure what's typical practice for restoration of
engineering items? (I suppose over the working lifetime of the engine it
may have had all sorts of tweaks and parts replaced with something
slightly different anyway)

I engraved my name and the date underneath the lid.
These are probably the only things that will be left of my work after
another 100 years. Except that someone will pinch them and melt them
down for the brass! Damn!

On 25/04/2011 19:22, Dave wrote:

I used to work in the aerospace industry and the solution treatment was
used so that L72 and L73 could be softened to work the sheets to complex
shapes. The treatment would last for about 4 hours before the sheet
would revert back to the unworkable state.

I can't supply any details, as that was not my area.

I'd never heard of it either, but it seems to be annealing (heat
treatment) by another name, and with more precise time/temperature
control than you'd get with the traditional "heat until the soap goes
black" method:

http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/conte...eid=1051278944

--
Andy

On 26/04/2011 10:27, Andy Wade wrote:
On 25/04/2011 19:22, Dave wrote:

I used to work in the aerospace industry and the solution treatment was
used so that L72 and L73 could be softened to work the sheets to complex
shapes. The treatment would last for about 4 hours before the sheet
would revert back to the unworkable state.

I can't supply any details, as that was not my area.

I'd never heard of it either, but it seems to be annealing (heat
treatment) by another name, and with more precise time/temperature
control than you'd get with the traditional "heat until the soap goes
black" method:

http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/conte...eid=1051278944

L72 and L73 can be annealed and it results in a much longer workable
time. AFAIR until it gets treated again to make it stiffen up.

Dave

On 26/04/2011 16:31, Dave wrote:

L72 and L73 can be annealed and it results in a much longer workable
time. AFAIR until it gets treated again to make it stiffen up.

I don't think so. Certainly the 2000-series ('dural' type) AlCu alloys
age harden - I remember that from O-level metalwork where we were taught
to re-anneal our work if it had been left for a few days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duralumin is interesting.

I've no idea what L72 and L73 are. Can you relate them to modern
4-digit IADS designations?

--
Andy

On 27/04/2011 09:39, Andy Wade wrote:
On 26/04/2011 16:31, Dave wrote:

L72 and L73 can be annealed and it results in a much longer workable
time. AFAIR until it gets treated again to make it stiffen up.

I don't think so. Certainly the 2000-series ('dural' type) AlCu alloys
age harden - I remember that from O-level metalwork where we were taught
to re-anneal our work if it had been left for a few days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duralumin is interesting.

I've no idea what L72 and L73 are. Can you relate them to modern 4-digit
IADS designations?

Is this what you mean... L72 = 2014 T4?

Take a look at this link for more info.

http://www.denchmetal.com/main/info/Aluminum%202014.htm

Dave, Out of the industry for 13 years now.

"Steve Walker" writes:

Matty F wrote:

Sure. But I don't claim to be an expert, and people told me that this
wouldn't work. And I used the wrong kind of brass, because it was
free.
I dunno, but I find it inspiring that old crafts are still alive like this.

I'm always astonished, amazed, hugely impressed that there are people
who can do things like this. Whether it's something old or new, to do
with metal working or building your own light plane, the sheer
craftsmanship overwhelms.

Myself, I'm usually lucky to be able to come up with minor variations
while assembling something from ready-made pieces.


--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
@ O n e t e l
. c o m