In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...

Not if the OP is only using 230V appliances.

Please pay attention to what is written.

Do pay attention, he has two 9 kW fryers, they are not going to be 230V.
Even the dishwasher I put in was three phase and that was only 7 kW.
And no I don't know enough about 3 phase to answer the OPs questions.
FFS pay attention


There will be two electrical fryers,
each loading at 2 x 9kW,

--
hugh
"Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, Or who said it, Even if
I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own
common sense." Buddha

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 14/04/2011 16:05, harry wrote:

We all still love you :-)

But only in a manly, viking way....



like this

http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar

errrrm.

Now why is it that a very camp customer last year offered me an extra £20 if
he could give me a blow job whereas my girlfriend says "if you give me £20
go shopping I might give you a blowjob"?

In the end no one got a tip.

--
Adam

"The Wanderer" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:31:05 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

"The Wanderer" wrote in message
...


OK. All understood. That form has now been filled out and faxed to our
liason guy at NPower.

snip

Is this a completely new supply or is he extending the installation to
give
you a sub-main off the existing installation? If that's the case, you'll
be
paying the landlord through a private meter, nothing to do with the
distribution company.


It is a new supply.

OK, that's a new supply to you.

The landlord has sent us a copy of the letter from EON
regarding them putting it in. In that letter, they request that a meter
supplier is appointed. However, that said, as he has told us that it will
be
a 40 kVA supply, I have to assume that EON will be re-working the
existing
75 kVA supply into 2 x 40 kVA supplies, one being for us, and one to
serve
the remaining 1k sq ft unit that is still to be let. Does that make sense
?

I guess the Landlord has told EON to install a 40kva supply, based on what
you've said to him[1]. I think you mentioned in your OP that there was
already a supply into the original unit and that it was located in the
part
that wasn't in your tenancy. I would expect that to be left in situ to
supply the other half of the building. (Gentle) questions I'd be putting
to
the LL, is the existing supply remaining for the other half of the
building, and has he merely asked for a 40kva supply based on your
estimates to him? (You can tell him you just want to be clear about the
arrangements.)


Good point, but I don't think that we entered into any specifics about what
our demand would be on any supply, before he told us that it would be a 40
kVA supply that EON would be putting in.



The distribution compan need a reasonable estimate of maximum demand for
any commercial or industrial premises to ensure they are installing the
correct cable and equipment to meet that demand. They will install a
supply
with a nominal maximum capacity of 75kva, even if you only need 40kva.
(Single phase will only give a nominal MD of 25 kva, no use to you).

snip

I have now revisited this, and enquired with my daughter as to why she
chose
fryer units with such a large power demand. It turns out that it was, to
some extent, an 'arbitrary' decision, based on the fact that the
particular
model in question seemed to be the best value for money, whilst
fulfilling
our performance needs. She had not considered the potential for two of
these
gobbling up all of our incoming electricity supply capacity.

Unlikely, you finish up with more capacity through the cable and meter
than
you will need.

We have now found another model from the same manufacturer and range,
which
is 2 x 6 kW per unit. This is capable of a 17 kilo per hour throughput of
frozen chips, so we think that two of these will be plenty adequate for
the
busy nights. So, with those both on, there is the potential for a 24 kW
draw
worst case, both thermostats on together. Now, a slightly different
question arises. According to the specs, this unit can be configured for
single phase or two phase operation. What would be the story there ?
Would
it be both 6 kW elements paralleled up for single phase, and one element
on
each of two phases for a two phase configuration ? Given the knowledge of
what supply we are going to have, which would be the preferred way of
hooking them up - all factors such as cost of fittings, cable, labour,
practicality for supply loading etc, considered ?

If it were me, I'd go for the 9kw models as long as they can be connected
across three phases, 3kw per phase. You should aim to keep your load
reasonably well balanced across the three phases.


OK. Mostly understood, I think. However, as each of those fryers has 2 x 9
kW of heating elements, would that not equate to 6 kW per phase for each
fryer i.e. a total of 12 kW per phase when both fryers are in use, and
happen to both be 'statted on at the same time ? Do the three demands then
just add up to amount to a grand total of 36 kW ? If so, then that seems to
be coming pretty close to the system capacity of 40 kVA (am I right in
thinking that for resistive loads kW = kVA ??)

Arfa



[1] It's a while since I had anything to to do with commercial/industrial
tariffs, but your LL might be doing you a favour. From memory anything
over
a nominal 50kva supply will only be metered on a maximum demand tariff.
Below 50kvz you have the choice of straight kwh or maximum demand.[2]

[2] An MD tariff is most beneficial to a customer with a very high load
factor, i.e. he is running continuous processes that are drawing a steady
kwh demand more or less continuously. If you have a process that ticks
over
at a nominal demand of 30kva but for 5 minutes in every hour kicks up to
200kva, you will be penalised because the supply company has needed to
install much larger cables that are really only needed for just 5 minutes
in every hour. Bit of an over-simplification but I hope that makes sense.



--
The Wanderer

There is no place like 127.0.0.1

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-14, Arfa Daily wrote:

This is capable of a 17 kilo per hour throughput of
frozen chips,

That's a serious chip dependency you have there.

But seriously, what is this business? I can't see a chip shop in an
industrial unit ...


--

Not all 'units' are *industrial* units, and not all places that serve chips,
are 'chip shops' ... !!

It is a retail unit, in a terrace of other retail units, and we will be
selling mainly American-style char-grilled burgers. Sort of 'quality' junk
food, if you like ... :-)

Arfa

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 02:14:55 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:


OK. Mostly understood, I think. However, as each of those fryers has 2 x 9
kW of heating elements, would that not equate to 6 kW per phase for each
fryer i.e. a total of 12 kW per phase when both fryers are in use, and
happen to both be 'statted on at the same time ? Do the three demands then
just add up to amount to a grand total of 36 kW ? If so, then that seems to
be coming pretty close to the system capacity of 40 kVA (am I right in
thinking that for resistive loads kW = kVA ??)


No need to worry about it, the supply that is installed will have a nominal
capacity of 75kva. You won't be in some way limited just to 40kva.

What you need to be aware about, if the busness expands, and you start
installing more equipment, you have a ceiling of 75kva. Seems unlikely
you'd reach that figure.

I'm guessing you are taking the place with an electricity supply, so the
landlord has started the ball rolling, rather than telling you to contact
the DisCo to make arrangements. He's probably done it before and has the
(not unreasonable) figure of 40kva set in his mind as a reasonable demand
for the type of unit. It's the sort of figure I would expect to see in a
request for supply.

As to kva and kwh, yes for resistive loads the two will be more or less the
same. As far as all tariffs are concerned units are charged per kwh, not
per kvah, but.....

Where some industrial processes are concerned, the total demand on the
supply may be greater than the load in kw. i.e. a load of 200kw resistive,
but a demand of say 220kva. This is because motors and some other equipment
don't represent a purely resistive load. Imagine a 5-12-13 right-angled
triangle, the 12 side is the resistive load, the 5 side is reactive load at
right angles to the resistive load, the 13 side is the actual maximum
demand on the supply system.

As an aside measuring the demand used to be by using a very clever bit of
electro-mechanical metering, a trivector. This had a meter measuring kwh
another measuring rkvah, and the two were summated using an awe-inspiring
gear train, with all sorts of differentials, epicyclics, the sort of thing
to bring a real gleam to the eye of any experimenter here. :-)



--
The Wanderer

When you hear the toilet flush and your child says 'Uh oh'
It's already too late!

Owain wrote:
On Apr 14, 11:39 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote:
Now why is it that a very camp customer last year offered me an
extra £20 if he could give me a blow job whereas my girlfriend says
"if you give me £20 go shopping I might give you a blowjob"?
In the end no one got a tip.

If you'd accepted both offers you could have got two blowjobs for zero
total outlay.

:-)

--
Adam

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-15, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-14, Arfa Daily wrote:

This is capable of a 17 kilo per hour throughput of
frozen chips,

That's a serious chip dependency you have there.

But seriously, what is this business? I can't see a chip shop in an
industrial unit ...

Not all 'units' are *industrial* units, and not all places that serve
chips,
are 'chip shops' ... !!

It is a retail unit, in a terrace of other retail units, and we will be
selling mainly American-style char-grilled burgers.

Ah, OK. The very best of luck to you.


Why thank you, kind sir ! Actually, should be a success. My wife and
daughter have run food outlets for quite a long time, and been very
successful at it. They sold both their cafes recently, in order to finance
this latest project, that they've wanted to do for some time. It is actually
very hard to get a decent take out burger from anywhere. Mostly, your only
option is Burger King for a mass produced flame grilled burger, Mickey D's
for a mass produced griddled burger, or the local chip shop for a poorly
hand-made griddled or microwaved cheeseburger. There is a quality
char-grilled burger take out in a town not far from me, and he celebrated 30
years a few months ago. His quality both of product and staff has never
dropped in all that time, and I think that has got a lot to do with his
ongoing success.

It has taken us a long time to find suitable premises. One of the big
stumbling blocks is getting A5 planning. The landlord had just applied on
this unit when we were first interested. A local councilor did object, but
he was over-ruled by the rest of the committee on the grounds that it was
better to have the unit doing something rather than standing empty, and that
there was already a precedent set by other food establishments in the same
retail area. There is very good footfall to a late night supermarket, and a
massive pool of housing surrounding the area on three sides, and a large
free car park serving the shops right outside. Also, a large pub across the
road, and an industrial estate at the other end of the road that the complex
sits on, as well as a main road connecting this town to the next one, just a
hundred yards away, so we are hopeful that it will be really successful. I
think many businesses like this fail due to wrong location, lack of business
savvy, and wrong attitude to customer service. This is an 'eyes wide open'
enterprise that the girls are embarking upon, and one that they are bringing
a big chunk of business and food expertise to ....

Arfa

"The Wanderer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 02:14:55 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:


OK. Mostly understood, I think. However, as each of those fryers has 2 x
9
kW of heating elements, would that not equate to 6 kW per phase for each
fryer i.e. a total of 12 kW per phase when both fryers are in use, and
happen to both be 'statted on at the same time ? Do the three demands
then
just add up to amount to a grand total of 36 kW ? If so, then that seems
to
be coming pretty close to the system capacity of 40 kVA (am I right in
thinking that for resistive loads kW = kVA ??)


No need to worry about it, the supply that is installed will have a
nominal
capacity of 75kva. You won't be in some way limited just to 40kva.

What you need to be aware about, if the busness expands, and you start
installing more equipment, you have a ceiling of 75kva. Seems unlikely
you'd reach that figure.

I'm guessing you are taking the place with an electricity supply, so the
landlord has started the ball rolling, rather than telling you to contact
the DisCo to make arrangements. He's probably done it before and has the
(not unreasonable) figure of 40kva set in his mind as a reasonable demand
for the type of unit. It's the sort of figure I would expect to see in a
request for supply.

As to kva and kwh, yes for resistive loads the two will be more or less
the
same. As far as all tariffs are concerned units are charged per kwh, not
per kvah, but.....

Where some industrial processes are concerned, the total demand on the
supply may be greater than the load in kw. i.e. a load of 200kw resistive,
but a demand of say 220kva. This is because motors and some other
equipment
don't represent a purely resistive load. Imagine a 5-12-13 right-angled
triangle, the 12 side is the resistive load, the 5 side is reactive load
at
right angles to the resistive load, the 13 side is the actual maximum
demand on the supply system.

As an aside measuring the demand used to be by using a very clever bit of
electro-mechanical metering, a trivector. This had a meter measuring kwh
another measuring rkvah, and the two were summated using an awe-inspiring
gear train, with all sorts of differentials, epicyclics, the sort of thing
to bring a real gleam to the eye of any experimenter here. :-)



OK. Many thanks. that explains it all very well. I think I agree that 40kVA
should satisfy our needs, at least for now, and particularly if we do drop
the fryers to 6 kW types. If the 'actual' capacity of the supply is 75 kVA,
then I guess that would give us the option of being able to upgrade to make
use of more or all of that, in the future. We don't have a date yet for when
EON are proposing to do the work, but it should be in the next couple of
weeks. It will be interesting to see exactly how they provide this new
supply, and the level that they fuse it to. Is that what ultimately
determines the 'size' of supply that they give you ? Or is the figure of 40
kVA just an arbitrary amount, and when they see a request for a supply that
size, it just counts as "not more than a minimum-sized 75 kVA supply, so
that's what we fit" ??

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:


"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-15, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-14, Arfa Daily wrote:

This is capable of a 17 kilo per hour throughput of
frozen chips,

That's a serious chip dependency you have there.

But seriously, what is this business? I can't see a chip shop in an
industrial unit ...

Not all 'units' are *industrial* units, and not all places that serve
chips,
are 'chip shops' ... !!

It is a retail unit, in a terrace of other retail units, and we will be
selling mainly American-style char-grilled burgers.

Ah, OK. The very best of luck to you.


Why thank you, kind sir ! Actually, should be a success. My wife and
daughter have run food outlets for quite a long time, and been very
successful at it. They sold both their cafes recently, in order to
finance this latest project, that they've wanted to do for some time. It
is actually very hard to get a decent take out burger from anywhere.
Mostly, your only option is Burger King for a mass produced flame
grilled burger, Mickey D's for a mass produced griddled burger, or the
local chip shop for a poorly hand-made griddled or microwaved
cheeseburger. There is a quality char-grilled burger take out in a town
not far from me, and he celebrated 30 years a few months ago. His
quality both of product and staff has never dropped in all that time,
and I think that has got a lot to do with his ongoing success.

It has taken us a long time to find suitable premises. One of the big
stumbling blocks is getting A5 planning. The landlord had just applied
on this unit when we were first interested. A local councilor did
object, but he was over-ruled by the rest of the committee on the
grounds that it was better to have the unit doing something rather than
standing empty, and that there was already a precedent set by other food
establishments in the same retail area. There is very good footfall to a
late night supermarket, and a massive pool of housing surrounding the
area on three sides, and a large free car park serving the shops right
outside. Also, a large pub across the road, and an industrial estate at
the other end of the road that the complex sits on, as well as a main
road connecting this town to the next one, just a hundred yards away, so
we are hopeful that it will be really successful. I think many
businesses like this fail due to wrong location, lack of business savvy,
and wrong attitude to customer service. This is an 'eyes wide open'
enterprise that the girls are embarking upon, and one that they are
bringing a big chunk of business and food expertise to ....

Sounds a brilliant plan Only thing to object to apart from late night
disturbances would be the smell of greasy frying !

And your daughter appears to have realised something that is blindingly
obvious to all but the catering trade: food costs in this kind of
enterprise are typically very low. Maybe 10% or less.

A **** burger (or whatever) will cost 2 quid (20p food cost), a really
**** burger 1.95 (5p food cost), and you can do a really good one for
£2.50,.(60p food cost) for the same overall gross profit per burger.


I mean, we can cook, using retail priced Waitrose special buns and
burgers, and salads, a fantastically delicious burger for about £1.50
food cost each.If the cooking and overheads contribute the same margin -
say £1.90 - then a completely gourmet burger is £4.40!

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 17:21:44 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:


It will be interesting to see exactly how they provide this new
supply, and the level that they fuse it to.

Should be a nominal 100a fuses, although I have a feeling there is a
tendency to use 80a fuses these days. To all intents and purposes you will
have a 75kva supply.

The operating characteristics of the fuses fitted in the main cutouts are
quite different to those used within the installation. They will tolerate a
modest overload for sustained periods. They will blow (evntually) with a
sustained overload, but it could be quite a while. They do blow very
quickly if the overload is severe.

Their purpose ain't reazlly to protect you and your installation, although
that does happen as an incidental benefit. They're there to protect the
distribution network from faults on customers' premises.



--
The Wanderer

Formal education will make you a living;
self-education will make you a fortune.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:


"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-15, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-14, Arfa Daily wrote:

This is capable of a 17 kilo per hour throughput of
frozen chips,

That's a serious chip dependency you have there.

But seriously, what is this business? I can't see a chip shop in an
industrial unit ...

Not all 'units' are *industrial* units, and not all places that serve
chips,
are 'chip shops' ... !!

It is a retail unit, in a terrace of other retail units, and we will be
selling mainly American-style char-grilled burgers.

Ah, OK. The very best of luck to you.


Why thank you, kind sir ! Actually, should be a success. My wife and
daughter have run food outlets for quite a long time, and been very
successful at it. They sold both their cafes recently, in order to
finance this latest project, that they've wanted to do for some time. It
is actually very hard to get a decent take out burger from anywhere.
Mostly, your only option is Burger King for a mass produced flame grilled
burger, Mickey D's for a mass produced griddled burger, or the local chip
shop for a poorly hand-made griddled or microwaved cheeseburger. There is
a quality char-grilled burger take out in a town not far from me, and he
celebrated 30 years a few months ago. His quality both of product and
staff has never dropped in all that time, and I think that has got a lot
to do with his ongoing success.

It has taken us a long time to find suitable premises. One of the big
stumbling blocks is getting A5 planning. The landlord had just applied on
this unit when we were first interested. A local councilor did object,
but he was over-ruled by the rest of the committee on the grounds that it
was better to have the unit doing something rather than standing empty,
and that there was already a precedent set by other food establishments
in the same retail area. There is very good footfall to a late night
supermarket, and a massive pool of housing surrounding the area on three
sides, and a large free car park serving the shops right outside. Also, a
large pub across the road, and an industrial estate at the other end of
the road that the complex sits on, as well as a main road connecting this
town to the next one, just a hundred yards away, so we are hopeful that
it will be really successful. I think many businesses like this fail due
to wrong location, lack of business savvy, and wrong attitude to customer
service. This is an 'eyes wide open' enterprise that the girls are
embarking upon, and one that they are bringing a big chunk of business
and food expertise to ....

Sounds a brilliant plan Only thing to object to apart from late night
disturbances would be the smell of greasy frying !

And your daughter appears to have realised something that is blindingly
obvious to all but the catering trade: food costs in this kind of
enterprise are typically very low. Maybe 10% or less.

A **** burger (or whatever) will cost 2 quid (20p food cost), a really
**** burger 1.95 (5p food cost), and you can do a really good one for
£2.50,.(60p food cost) for the same overall gross profit per burger.


I mean, we can cook, using retail priced Waitrose special buns and
burgers, and salads, a fantastically delicious burger for about £1.50 food
cost each.If the cooking and overheads contribute the same margin - say
£1.90 - then a completely gourmet burger is £4.40!

Yes, pretty much on the nose for costings. As to the generation of any
smells, this is pretty tightly controlled by the local authority, who
granted the planning subject to their approval of the extraction system.
This is required to have appropriate filtration to remove cooking smells
before they can escape into the environment. This is one of the biggest
capital costs of the venture, amounting to over ten grand by the time you
have added in VAT and installation. We have worked long and hard to even get
it down to this figure. We are not envisaging disturbance to residents to be
a problem, either. Although we will be surrounded by huge amounts of
housing, the closest any actual dwellings are, is probably 100 yards. There
is also an 11pm supermarket just a couple of doors down from us, that
generates substantial footfall right up until when they close. We are
expecting to close at the same time, so will not generate any real
additional disturbance. In front of us is a large car park, followed by a
road, followed by a large pub, and then open countryside for probably a
quarter mile, before yet another huge housing estate, so that direction
won't be a problem either. It's a good location, and it has taken us a long
time to find it. Plus, many of our long-standing cafe customers have stayed
in touch, and are waiting eagerly for our grand opening !

Arfa

"Owain" wrote in message
...
On Apr 15, 5:09 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
for a mass produced griddled burger, or the local chip shop for a poorly
hand-made griddled or microwaved cheeseburger.

Round here, the chippy burgers go in the fryer along with the pizza
and marsbars

Owain


Yep ! Sounds about right. :-) Ours certainly won't be. We are using a
commercial gas powered char grill for that 'proper' American burger taste. A
couple of grand on its own ...

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:


"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-15, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-14, Arfa Daily wrote:

This is capable of a 17 kilo per hour throughput of
frozen chips,

That's a serious chip dependency you have there.

But seriously, what is this business? I can't see a chip shop in an
industrial unit ...

Not all 'units' are *industrial* units, and not all places that
serve chips,
are 'chip shops' ... !!

It is a retail unit, in a terrace of other retail units, and we
will be
selling mainly American-style char-grilled burgers.

Ah, OK. The very best of luck to you.


Why thank you, kind sir ! Actually, should be a success. My wife and
daughter have run food outlets for quite a long time, and been very
successful at it. They sold both their cafes recently, in order to
finance this latest project, that they've wanted to do for some time.
It is actually very hard to get a decent take out burger from
anywhere. Mostly, your only option is Burger King for a mass produced
flame grilled burger, Mickey D's for a mass produced griddled burger,
or the local chip shop for a poorly hand-made griddled or microwaved
cheeseburger. There is a quality char-grilled burger take out in a
town not far from me, and he celebrated 30 years a few months ago.
His quality both of product and staff has never dropped in all that
time, and I think that has got a lot to do with his ongoing success.

It has taken us a long time to find suitable premises. One of the big
stumbling blocks is getting A5 planning. The landlord had just
applied on this unit when we were first interested. A local councilor
did object, but he was over-ruled by the rest of the committee on the
grounds that it was better to have the unit doing something rather
than standing empty, and that there was already a precedent set by
other food establishments in the same retail area. There is very good
footfall to a late night supermarket, and a massive pool of housing
surrounding the area on three sides, and a large free car park
serving the shops right outside. Also, a large pub across the road,
and an industrial estate at the other end of the road that the
complex sits on, as well as a main road connecting this town to the
next one, just a hundred yards away, so we are hopeful that it will
be really successful. I think many businesses like this fail due to
wrong location, lack of business savvy, and wrong attitude to
customer service. This is an 'eyes wide open' enterprise that the
girls are embarking upon, and one that they are bringing a big chunk
of business and food expertise to ....

Sounds a brilliant plan Only thing to object to apart from late night
disturbances would be the smell of greasy frying !

And your daughter appears to have realised something that is
blindingly obvious to all but the catering trade: food costs in this
kind of enterprise are typically very low. Maybe 10% or less.

A **** burger (or whatever) will cost 2 quid (20p food cost), a really
**** burger 1.95 (5p food cost), and you can do a really good one for
£2.50,.(60p food cost) for the same overall gross profit per burger.


I mean, we can cook, using retail priced Waitrose special buns and
burgers, and salads, a fantastically delicious burger for about £1.50
food cost each.If the cooking and overheads contribute the same margin
- say £1.90 - then a completely gourmet burger is £4.40!

Yes, pretty much on the nose for costings. As to the generation of any
smells, this is pretty tightly controlled by the local authority, who
granted the planning subject to their approval of the extraction system.
This is required to have appropriate filtration to remove cooking smells
before they can escape into the environment. This is one of the biggest
capital costs of the venture, amounting to over ten grand by the time
you have added in VAT and installation. We have worked long and hard to
even get it down to this figure. We are not envisaging disturbance to
residents to be a problem, either. Although we will be surrounded by
huge amounts of housing, the closest any actual dwellings are, is
probably 100 yards. There is also an 11pm supermarket just a couple of
doors down from us, that generates substantial footfall right up until
when they close. We are expecting to close at the same time, so will not
generate any real additional disturbance. In front of us is a large car
park, followed by a road, followed by a large pub, and then open
countryside for probably a quarter mile, before yet another huge housing
estate, so that direction won't be a problem either. It's a good
location, and it has taken us a long time to find it. Plus, many of our
long-standing cafe customers have stayed in touch, and are waiting
eagerly for our grand opening !


well let us DIYers know and we will all come down and cop a burger there.

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
On Apr 15, 5:09 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
for a mass produced griddled burger, or the local chip shop for a poorly
hand-made griddled or microwaved cheeseburger.

Round here, the chippy burgers go in the fryer along with the pizza
and marsbars

Owain


Yep ! Sounds about right. :-) Ours certainly won't be. We are using
a commercial gas powered char grill for that 'proper' American burger
taste. A couple of grand on its own ...


still not that real 'charcoal' flavour.


Arfa

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
On Apr 15, 5:09 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
for a mass produced griddled burger, or the local chip shop for a
poorly
hand-made griddled or microwaved cheeseburger.

Round here, the chippy burgers go in the fryer along with the pizza
and marsbars

Owain


Yep ! Sounds about right. :-) Ours certainly won't be. We are using a
commercial gas powered char grill for that 'proper' American burger
taste. A couple of grand on its own ...


still not that real 'charcoal' flavour.


Arfa

It depends on what type you have. The one in the place that's been going for
30 years, produces burgers that taste like they've just come off my
barbecue, unlike BK's flame-grilled ones for instance which, although they
taste ok compared to Mickey D's griddled ones for instance, don't taste like
that. We also have a kebab joint in our village that sells proper hand-made
skewered ones that are cooked to order on a proper gas char grill. They too
taste like they have just come off a garden charcoal barbecue.

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


I mean, we can cook, using retail priced Waitrose special buns and
burgers, and salads, a fantastically delicious burger for about £1.50
food cost each.If the cooking and overheads contribute the same margin -
say £1.90 - then a completely gourmet burger is £4.40!

Yes, pretty much on the nose for costings. As to the generation of any
smells, this is pretty tightly controlled by the local authority, who
granted the planning subject to their approval of the extraction system.
This is required to have appropriate filtration to remove cooking smells
before they can escape into the environment. This is one of the biggest
capital costs of the venture, amounting to over ten grand by the time you
have added in VAT and installation.

There was a diving shop near me that used to compress air for divers.
they successfully opposed a licence for a takeaway on the basis the cooking
smells could be dangerous when its 1000 times the concentration.

I never knew how the takeaway was different from the school kitchen next
door or the houses on the other side.

No diving shops near you I take it.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


I mean, we can cook, using retail priced Waitrose special buns and
burgers, and salads, a fantastically delicious burger for about £1.50
food cost each.If the cooking and overheads contribute the same margin -
say £1.90 - then a completely gourmet burger is £4.40!

Yes, pretty much on the nose for costings. As to the generation of any
smells, this is pretty tightly controlled by the local authority, who
granted the planning subject to their approval of the extraction system.
This is required to have appropriate filtration to remove cooking smells
before they can escape into the environment. This is one of the biggest
capital costs of the venture, amounting to over ten grand by the time you
have added in VAT and installation.

There was a diving shop near me that used to compress air for divers.
they successfully opposed a licence for a takeaway on the basis the
cooking smells could be dangerous when its 1000 times the concentration.

I never knew how the takeaway was different from the school kitchen next
door or the houses on the other side.

No diving shops near you I take it.



No, no diving shops ! Local authorities differ in their approach to this
'problem'. Ours is fairly strict, and it was a requirement of the A5
planning consent that they granted for our premises, that the fume
extraction system that we install has appropriate odour filtration, and that
the specs for it are submitted to them for approval. Proper fume extraction
and odour control is not a cheap business. We have worked hard to get the
price of ours down to the best that we possibly can. To that end, we have
had four different suppliers / builders of this equipment, fighting each
other for the business. We have finally chosen what we consider to be the
best VFM system from the most reputable (looking) outfit, and it amounts to
around ten grand's worth. At the end of the day, if you are going to do this
sort of thing, then it has to be done properly. I think that if I had been
the people applying next to the diving shop, and had been turned down on
those grounds, I would have fought back on the basis that the planning
committee did not understand what was available to remove cooking smells. Of
course, it could have been that they were not prepared to spend the money to
do the job properly ...

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


I mean, we can cook, using retail priced Waitrose special buns and
burgers, and salads, a fantastically delicious burger for about £1.50
food cost each.If the cooking and overheads contribute the same
margin - say £1.90 - then a completely gourmet burger is £4.40!

Yes, pretty much on the nose for costings. As to the generation of any
smells, this is pretty tightly controlled by the local authority, who
granted the planning subject to their approval of the extraction system.
This is required to have appropriate filtration to remove cooking smells
before they can escape into the environment. This is one of the biggest
capital costs of the venture, amounting to over ten grand by the time
you have added in VAT and installation.

There was a diving shop near me that used to compress air for divers.
they successfully opposed a licence for a takeaway on the basis the
cooking smells could be dangerous when its 1000 times the concentration.

I never knew how the takeaway was different from the school kitchen next
door or the houses on the other side.

No diving shops near you I take it.



No, no diving shops ! Local authorities differ in their approach to this
'problem'. Ours is fairly strict, and it was a requirement of the A5
planning consent that they granted for our premises, that the fume
extraction system that we install has appropriate odour filtration, and
that the specs for it are submitted to them for approval. Proper fume
extraction and odour control is not a cheap business. We have worked hard
to get the price of ours down to the best that we possibly can. To that
end, we have had four different suppliers / builders of this equipment,
fighting each other for the business. We have finally chosen what we
consider to be the best VFM system from the most reputable (looking)
outfit, and it amounts to around ten grand's worth. At the end of the day,
if you are going to do this sort of thing, then it has to be done
properly. I think that if I had been the people applying next to the
diving shop, and had been turned down on those grounds, I would have
fought back on the basis that the planning committee did not understand
what was available to remove cooking smells. Of course, it could have been
that they were not prepared to spend the money to do the job properly ...

I would have complained to the H&S that the diving shop didn't adequately
filter the air they used myself.
It should be easy for them to filter a few thousand litres of air at a low
volume.

In article , Huge
writes

I can understand that. A good burger is a delight.

My local pub does hand-made burgers. Bit pricey at a fiver, but you get
chips, salad and onion rings too. The chilli and coriander burgers are
to die for.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Huge
writes

I can understand that. A good burger is a delight.

My local pub does hand-made burgers. Bit pricey at a fiver, but you get
chips, salad and onion rings too. The chilli and coriander burgers are
to die for.

Is that chilli and coriander in the burger meat itself ? How hot chilli ?
Typical cayenne ? I'll pass this on to the girls

Arfa


--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2011-04-19, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Huge
writes

I can understand that. A good burger is a delight.

My local pub does hand-made burgers. Bit pricey at a fiver, but you get
chips, salad and onion rings too. The chilli and coriander burgers are
to die for.

Is that chilli and coriander in the burger meat itself ? How hot chilli ?
Typical cayenne ? I'll pass this on to the girls

Have you tried "inside out" cheeseburgers? Embed some cheese in the raw
burger,
then cook as normal.


--

Ah, so you watch Guy on Diners, Drive-ins and Dives as well ... :-)
We have that episode stored away on the Sky + box. It will be one of the
offerings in our new place !

Arfa