I replaced our toilet syphon with a drop valve type flush some years
ago, and disconnected the external water overflow warning pipe. However,
the drop valve stuck open a few days ago and as we are on a water meter
I have decided to go back to a syphon.

Looking at the descriptions of syphons for sale I see that some claim to
have an internal overflow. This is what I need but surely any syphon
provides an internal overflow as long as it is installed with the
internal spill-over height well below the level of any unsealed holes in
the cistern.

Is the internal overflow claim for these syphons just marketing hype, or
have I missed something and they really are different in some way?

JonMcD

On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 21:01:59 +0100, JonMcD wrote:

Is the internal overflow claim for these syphons just marketing hype, or
have I missed something and they really are different in some way?

It's not marketing hype but the difference is they're shorter - 7" rather
than 9.5" or thereabouts (off the top of my head)





--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Sent from my Difference Engine

In article , says...
It's not marketing hype but the difference is they're shorter - 7" rather
than 9.5" or thereabouts (off the top of my head)


Not sure I could spare 9.5" off the top of my head.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On 08/04/2011 23:41, YAPH wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 21:01:59 +0100, JonMcD wrote:

Is the internal overflow claim for these syphons just marketing
hype, or have I missed something and they really are different in
some way?

It's not marketing hype but the difference is they're shorter - 7"
rather than 9.5" or thereabouts (off the top of my head)

http://www.opella.co.uk/flushingvalves-1.html answers my original
question, at least for Delchem Dualflush Siphons. These come in 7½€�, 8€�,
9€�, 9½€� heights and they say you get the internal overflow feature by
buying the correct height syphon for the cistern.

What caused me some doubt originally was on-line shops who repeat the
internal overflow claim for Dualflush Siphons but dont stock the
smaller sizes or only stock one size.

JonMcD

On Apr 8, 9:01*pm, JonMcD wrote:
I replaced our toilet syphon with a drop valve type flush some years
ago, and disconnected the external water overflow warning pipe. However,
the drop valve stuck open a few days ago and as we are on a water meter
I have decided to go back to a syphon.

Looking at the descriptions of syphons for sale I see that some claim to
have an internal overflow. This is what I need but surely any syphon
provides an internal overflow as long as it is installed with the
internal spill-over height well below the level of any unsealed holes in
the cistern.

Is the internal overflow claim for these syphons just marketing hype, or
have I missed something and they really are different in some way?

JonMcD

You are right. The tradional syphon can't be beaten. Fail safe as
well so it doesn't cost a fortune in water.
The traditional overflow was a water byelaw requirement on all water
tanks.
Also the "pumptype" syphon is relatively new. In days of yore,
operating the lever lifted the whole cast iron syphon device, when it
was released is scooshed the water up and startedt he syphon. There
was no possibilty of using the flush pipe as overflow
The problem I find with leaving it over flow down the flush pipe is
that sometimes you don't see that it is leaking slightly.

On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 01:04:09 -0700, harry wrote:

You are right. The tradional syphon can't be beaten. Fail safe as well
so it doesn't cost a fortune in water. The traditional overflow was a
water byelaw requirement on all water tanks.
Also the "pumptype" syphon is relatively new.

"New" in geological time :-)

In days of yore, operating
the lever lifted the whole cast iron syphon device, when it was released
is scooshed the water up and startedt he syphon. There was no
possibilty of using the flush pipe as overflow

Au contraire, I think it would work

The problem I find with
leaving it over flow down the flush pipe is that sometimes you don't see
that it is leaking slightly.

On the other hand a badly placed overflow/warning pipe can be ****ing
away for ages without being spotted - particularly during winter if
people don't go wherever it's located.


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Sent from my PDP-11

harry :
The problem I find with leaving it over flow down the flush pipe is
that sometimes you don't see that it is leaking slightly.

Didn't we discuss this some years ago? I came to the conclusion that you
can divide the population into two groups: those that would never
notice, and those that can't fail to notice. With a female/male bias,
for fairly obvious reasons.

--
Mike Barnes

On Apr 9, 9:04*am, harry wrote:

The problem I find with leaving it over flow down the flush pipe is
that sometimes you don't see that it is leaking slightly.

The problem I see is when you have both a blocked loo and an overflow.
And don't anyone suggest that Murphy doesn't have that one well in
hand :-)

Chris

On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 05:36:47 -0700, chrisj.doran wrote:

The problem I see is when you have both a blocked loo and an overflow.
And don't anyone suggest that Murphy doesn't have that one well in hand
:-)

Well that would solve the 'not noticing it' problem ;-)


--
John Stumbles

People don't need to be born again - they need to grow up.

On Apr 9, 9:04*am, harry wrote:

The problem I find with leaving it over flow down the flush pipe is
that sometimes you don't see that it is leaking slightly.

Our university bogs (1960s building) couldn't be ignored. The overflow
was central, external and didn't require outdoor plumbing as it was
mounted conveniently over the sitter's head!

Worst of all was our house in N Ireland. Cistern on an inside wall, so
the plumber (an inbred halfwit with vestigial gills) merely led it
into the cavity and stopped there!

On 08/04/2011 21:01, JonMcD wrote:
I replaced our toilet syphon with a drop valve type flush some years
ago, and disconnected the external water overflow warning pipe. However,
the drop valve stuck open a few days ago and as we are on a water meter
I have decided to go back to a syphon.

Looking at the descriptions of syphons for sale I see that some claim to
have an internal overflow. This is what I need but surely any syphon
provides an internal overflow as long as it is installed with the
internal spill-over height well below the level of any unsealed holes in
the cistern.

Is the internal overflow claim for these syphons just marketing hype, or
have I missed something and they really are different in some way?

I've found these to be very easy to install & adjust & they seem very
reliable http://tinyurl.com/44rvvwy

They also do a 'leak sentry' version which I have never fitted, but
seems worth a look.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Apr 10, 11:21*am, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
On 08/04/2011 21:01, JonMcD wrote:

I replaced our toilet syphon with a drop valve type flush some years
ago, and disconnected the external water overflow warning pipe. However,
the drop valve stuck open a few days ago and as we are on a water meter
I have decided to go back to a syphon.

Looking at the descriptions of syphons for sale I see that some claim to
have an internal overflow. This is what I need but surely any syphon
provides an internal overflow as long as it is installed with the
internal spill-over height well below the level of any unsealed holes in
the cistern.

Is the internal overflow claim for these syphons just marketing hype, or
have I missed something and they really are different in some way?

I've found these to be very easy to install & adjust & they seem very
reliablehttp://tinyurl.com/44rvvwy

They also do a 'leak sentry' version which I have never fitted, but
seems worth a look.

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

What is the operating principle?

On 10/04/2011 11:21, The Medway Handyman wrote:


I've found these to be very easy to install & adjust & they seem very
reliable http://tinyurl.com/44rvvwy

They also do a 'leak sentry' version which I have never fitted, but
seems worth a look.


Thanks for the suggestion, but I've gone off cable operated flushes. It
was the cable sticking that stopped the drop valve seating in the first
place. We have hard water and I assume limescale build-up on the cable
was to blame since once I'd taken it out and operated it a few times it
freed up. Think I'll stick to lever operation from now on.

JonMcD

On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 11:21:41 +0100, The Medway Handyman wrote:

They also do a 'leak sentry' version which I have never fitted, but
seems worth a look.

Didn't follow the link but if it's the fluidmaster flap valve the one
(first and last :-|) I fitted was bloody fiddly.





--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Never believe anyone who claims to be a liar

On 14/04/2011 02:20, YAPH wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 11:21:41 +0100, The Medway Handyman wrote:

They also do a 'leak sentry' version which I have never fitted, but
seems worth a look.

Didn't follow the link but if it's the fluidmaster flap valve the one
(first and last :-|) I fitted was bloody fiddly.

Flap valves are OK for furriners I spose, but agin nature & no good will
ever come of them...



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk