Just moved home.

The central heating and hot water systems are gravity fed. The HW
cylinder is in an upstairs airing cupboard above the stairs.The top of
the cylinder is only 6-8" below the ceiling with the cold water header
tank on a low platform in the roof space above. Even though the upstairs
hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to the bath and sink is
woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by the use of modern (no
washer) taps which seem to slow the flow even more.

Can I install a pump in the airing cupboard in the 22mm coming from the
top (output) of the HW cylinder? I only need to boost pressure for the
hot water supply as the cold is at mains pressure and flows fine.

If so can anyone recommend a suitable pump? all I want to do is cut a
length of pipe long enough for the pump to be fitted. I do have an
electrical supply in the airing cupboard already.

Is this the correct way to boost hot water pressure rather than having
to raise the cold water header tank in a gravity fed system?


Martyn

Count de Monet wrote:

Just moved home.

The central heating and hot water systems are gravity fed. The HW
cylinder is in an upstairs airing cupboard above the stairs.The top of
the cylinder is only 6-8" below the ceiling with the cold water header
tank on a low platform in the roof space above. Even though the upstairs
hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to the bath and sink is
woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by the use of modern (no
washer) taps which seem to slow the flow even more.

Can I install a pump in the airing cupboard in the 22mm coming from the
top (output) of the HW cylinder? I only need to boost pressure for the
hot water supply as the cold is at mains pressure and flows fine.

If so can anyone recommend a suitable pump? all I want to do is cut a
length of pipe long enough for the pump to be fitted. I do have an
electrical supply in the airing cupboard already.

Is this the correct way to boost hot water pressure rather than having
to raise the cold water header tank in a gravity fed system?


Martyn

yes, - but it shouldn't be that slow. Are you sure all the stop cocks are
fully on and not jammed etc? Before I had a combi boiler, my shower head was
only about 18" lower than the bottom of the tank the preasure was not
brillient but it was ok.

Next door has put in a power shower 22mm off the top of the tank and he says
it ok. With a power shower is more preasure, but less water.

--
zaax

On 21/03/2011 19:52, zaax wrote:
Count de Monet wrote:

Just moved home.

The central heating and hot water systems are gravity fed. The HW
cylinder is in an upstairs airing cupboard above the stairs.The top of
the cylinder is only 6-8" below the ceiling with the cold water header
tank on a low platform in the roof space above. Even though the upstairs
hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to the bath and sink is
woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by the use of modern (no
washer) taps which seem to slow the flow even more.

Can I install a pump in the airing cupboard in the 22mm coming from the
top (output) of the HW cylinder? I only need to boost pressure for the
hot water supply as the cold is at mains pressure and flows fine.

If so can anyone recommend a suitable pump? all I want to do is cut a
length of pipe long enough for the pump to be fitted. I do have an
electrical supply in the airing cupboard already.

Is this the correct way to boost hot water pressure rather than having
to raise the cold water header tank in a gravity fed system?


Martyn

yes, - but it shouldn't be that slow. Are you sure all the stop cocks are
fully on and not jammed etc? Before I had a combi boiler, my shower head was
only about 18" lower than the bottom of the tank the preasure was not
brillient but it was ok.

Next door has put in a power shower 22mm off the top of the tank and he says
it ok. With a power shower is more preasure, but less water.

When I put our power shower in I moved the take off to just above the
hot water cylinder. Cold has a separate take off from the cold tank.

The runs to the old shower had too many sharp right angle bends as well
as a poorish height of head.

Invisible Man wrote:
On 21/03/2011 19:52, zaax wrote:
Count de Monet wrote:

Just moved home.

Even though
the upstairs hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to
the bath and sink is woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by
the use of modern (no washer) taps which seem to slow the flow even
more.

This is an increasing problem, bearing in mind that the majority of the taps
now for sale in the UK are made in countries that do not have antiquated
gravity-fed water systems and hence are designed to operate with a minumum
mains pressure.

The hot water flow from our modern kitchen tap was pitiful (even though the
header tank was two floors up in the loft). When we switched to a combi
system the flow improved dramatically and is now fine.

--
Triff

On Mar 21, 8:10*pm, "Triffid" wrote:
Invisible Man wrote:
On 21/03/2011 19:52, zaax wrote:
Count de Monet wrote:

Just moved home.

*Even though

the upstairs hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to
the bath and sink is woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by
the use of modern (no washer) taps which seem to slow the flow even
more.

This is an increasing problem, bearing in mind that the majority of the taps
now for sale in the UK are made in countries that do not have antiquated
gravity-fed water systems and hence are designed to operate with a minumum
mains pressure.

The hot water flow from our modern kitchen tap was pitiful (even though the
header tank was two floors up in the loft). When we switched to a combi
system the flow improved dramatically and is now fine.

--
Triff

Combi boilers are just for cheapness. They have no other advantage.
Our traditional system if properly designed is far superior.

harry wrote:
On Mar 21, 8:10 pm, "Triffid" wrote:
Invisible Man wrote:
On 21/03/2011 19:52, zaax wrote:
Count de Monet wrote:

Just moved home.

Even though

the upstairs hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to
the bath and sink is woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by
the use of modern (no washer) taps which seem to slow the flow
even more.

This is an increasing problem, bearing in mind that the majority of
the taps now for sale in the UK are made in countries that do not
have antiquated gravity-fed water systems and hence are designed to
operate with a minumum mains pressure.

The hot water flow from our modern kitchen tap was pitiful (even
though the header tank was two floors up in the loft). When we
switched to a combi system the flow improved dramatically and is now
fine.

--
Triff

Combi boilers are just for cheapness. They have no other advantage.

I don't accept that at all. First of all, when you are not using hot water,
the boiler is concentrating entirely on heating the radiators. The boiler
only heats water that you actually need - so if you don't need much hot
water on a particular day, you aren't wasting money heating up gallons of
water that you will never use.


Our traditional system if properly designed is far superior.

IYO! I have absolutely no regrets about switching to a combi system.

--
Triff

In article 3552795d-bfb5-4397-af7d-7aaf37afdba3
@p3g2000vbv.googlegroups.com, says...
Combi boilers are just for cheapness. They have no other advantage.

Personally I'd rather not have a tank of hot water slowly cooling down.
You pays your money, you takes your choice.
As it happens I'm reluctant to fit a combi in place of our elderly but
still functional Glow Worm 40 because all I ever hear is tales of woe
about how unreliable and expensive they are to fix.
But that doesn't mean I wouldn't like one - just that I don't trust
them.


--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On 21/03/2011 20:33, harry wrote:

the upstairs hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to
the bath and sink is woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by
the use of modern (no washer) taps which seem to slow the flow even
more.

This is an increasing problem, bearing in mind that the majority of the taps
now for sale in the UK are made in countries that do not have antiquated
gravity-fed water systems and hence are designed to operate with a minumum
mains pressure.

The hot water flow from our modern kitchen tap was pitiful (even though the
header tank was two floors up in the loft). When we switched to a combi
system the flow improved dramatically and is now fine.

--
Triff

Combi boilers are just for cheapness. They have no other advantage.
Our traditional system if properly designed is far superior.

It's perfectly possible to have a mains pressure HW system without a combi.

A Mains pressure cylinder will provide the benefits of mains pressure
HW, along with the hot flow rate advantages of stored HW.

It's what most of the rest of the world does!

I'd be hard pushed to consider anything else now, having switched to a
Megaflo system. ( Other than perhaps a small flat with no bath and no
space for a cylinder where a combi would be the better choice. )

--
Ron

Triffid wrote:
This is an increasing problem, bearing in mind that the majority of the taps
now for sale in the UK are made in countries that do not have antiquated
gravity-fed water systems and hence are designed to operate with a minumum
mains pressure.

Solution: use a modern gravity-fed water system. Is there space to
raise
the cold water header tank as high(er) up as possible. Also, as others
have said, there needs to be a minimum of bends between the tank and
the shower, both hot and cold need to be fed from the same source,
ensure all appropriate taps are open and one other thing: ensure the
incoming ballcock is clear. I got a bit of crud in mine years ago
which meant the tank too 30mins to refill.

My cold water header tank is in the rear Jefferies tube about four
feet above floor level, resulting in about seven feet of head to the
1st floor shower (and a wonderful 18 feet of head to the ground floor
shower!).

The hot water flow from our modern kitchen tap was pitiful (even though the
header tank was two floors up in the loft). When we switched to a combi
system the flow improved dramatically and is now fine.

Like false trips on a RCD, it indicates the "circuitry" is at fault,
not the "supply".

JGH

Count de Monet wrote:
Just moved home.

The central heating and hot water systems are gravity fed. The HW
cylinder is in an upstairs airing cupboard above the stairs.The top of
the cylinder is only 6-8" below the ceiling with the cold water header
tank on a low platform in the roof space above. Even though the upstairs
hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to the bath and sink is
woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by the use of modern (no
washer) taps which seem to slow the flow even more.

Can I install a pump in the airing cupboard in the 22mm coming from the
top (output) of the HW cylinder? I only need to boost pressure for the
hot water supply as the cold is at mains pressure and flows fine.

If so can anyone recommend a suitable pump? all I want to do is cut a
length of pipe long enough for the pump to be fitted. I do have an
electrical supply in the airing cupboard already.

Is this the correct way to boost hot water pressure rather than having to
raise the cold water header tank in a gravity fed system?


If you planning on staying put for a good many years I'd recommend getting
a mains pressure hot water tank. Pumps can be noisy (unless very expensive)
and have a limited lifespan. The sound of the pump kicking in when someone
opens a hot tap at night is a potential annoyance.

Tim

If you planning on staying put for a good many years I'd recommend getting
a mains pressure hot water tank. Pumps can be noisy (unless very
expensive)
and have a limited lifespan. The sound of the pump kicking in when someone
opens a hot tap at night is a potential annoyance.


Stuart Turner pumps are quiet and reliable (but expensive). If you don't
have a shower, you just need a single impeller pump but, as other posters
said, you really want a Surry / Essex or similar flange on the tank which
might be a PITA to fit on an old system.

You don't really want to feed a shower from a single impeller pump on the
hot, and mains on the cold. It's probably breaking the water regs even with
a non-return valve on the cold.

On Mar 21, 7:41*pm, Count de Monet wrote:
Just moved home.

The central heating and hot water systems are gravity fed. The HW
cylinder is in an upstairs airing cupboard above the stairs.The top of
the cylinder is only 6-8" below the ceiling with the cold water header
tank on a low platform in the roof space above. Even though the upstairs
hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to the bath and sink is
woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by the use of modern (no
washer) taps which seem to slow the flow even more.

Can I install a pump in the airing cupboard in the 22mm coming from the
top (output) of the HW cylinder? I only need to boost pressure for the
hot water supply as the cold is at mains pressure and flows fine.

If so can anyone recommend a suitable pump? all I want to do is cut a
length of pipe long enough for the pump to be fitted. I do have an
electrical supply in the airing cupboard already.

Is this the correct way to boost hot water pressure rather than having
to raise the cold water header tank in a gravity fed system?

Martyn

Showers ideally need to have equal pressure on hot and cold supplies
to them. In a good installation the cold water for the shower comes
from the header tank too. You can buy an electric shower pump that has
two pumps, one on each side of the motor. (For the hot and cold
water.) These work well though some are noisy.
There are single pumps for the hot water too. There is a range of
these in the "Screwfix" catalogue.

On 21/03/2011 19:41, Count de Monet wrote:
Just moved home.

The central heating and hot water systems are gravity fed. The HW
cylinder is in an upstairs airing cupboard above the stairs.The top of
the cylinder is only 6-8" below the ceiling with the cold water header
tank on a low platform in the roof space above. Even though the upstairs
hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to the bath and sink is
woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by the use of modern (no
washer) taps which seem to slow the flow even more.

Can I install a pump in the airing cupboard in the 22mm coming from the
top (output) of the HW cylinder? I only need to boost pressure for the
hot water supply as the cold is at mains pressure and flows fine.

If so can anyone recommend a suitable pump? all I want to do is cut a
length of pipe long enough for the pump to be fitted. I do have an
electrical supply in the airing cupboard already.

Is this the correct way to boost hot water pressure rather than having
to raise the cold water header tank in a gravity fed system?

If there is enough height I would always raise the header/feed tank.
Although more work there is nothing to go wrong once the installation is
completed.

I live in a bungalow and have installed a shower which has pressure
which is arguably better than that of a pumped shower in a nearby house.
I built a tower for the header/feed tank in the loft. When full the
surface of the cold water is about 6ft above the ceiling joists. The
shower is fed from the hot tank with the cold feed coming from this
header/feed tank, thus equalling the pressures.

Incidentally, I have modern (ceramic disk) mixer taps in the kitchen.
The hot water flows through that tap just a well as it flows through any
of the other traditional taps in the property.


--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

On Mar 21, 9:12*pm, Old Codger wrote:
On 21/03/2011 19:41, Count de Monet wrote:





Just moved home.

The central heating and hot water systems are gravity fed. The HW
cylinder is in an upstairs airing cupboard above the stairs.The top of
the cylinder is only 6-8" below the ceiling with the cold water header
tank on a low platform in the roof space above. Even though the upstairs
hot water feed is plumbed in 22mm the hot supply to the bath and sink is
woefully slow flowing, this is not helped by the use of modern (no
washer) taps which seem to slow the flow even more.

Can I install a pump in the airing cupboard in the 22mm coming from the
top (output) of the HW cylinder? I only need to boost pressure for the
hot water supply as the cold is at mains pressure and flows fine.

If so can anyone recommend a suitable pump? all I want to do is cut a
length of pipe long enough for the pump to be fitted. I do have an
electrical supply in the airing cupboard already.

Is this the correct way to boost hot water pressure rather than having
to raise the cold water header tank in a gravity fed system?

If there is enough height I would always raise the header/feed tank.
Although more work there is nothing to go wrong once the installation is
completed.

I live in a bungalow and have installed a shower which has pressure
which is arguably better than that of a pumped shower in a nearby house.
* I built a tower for the header/feed tank in the loft. *When full the
surface of the cold water is about 6ft above the ceiling joists. *The
shower is fed from the hot tank with the cold feed coming from this
header/feed tank, thus equalling the pressures.

Incidentally, I have modern (ceramic disk) mixer taps in the kitchen.
The hot water flows through that tap just a well as it flows through any
of the other traditional taps in the property.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Way to go. Far more sensible.

harry wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:12 pm, Old Codger wrote:
On 21/03/2011 19:41, Count de Monet wrote:

Incidentally, I have modern (ceramic disk) mixer taps in the kitchen.
The hot water flows through that tap just a well as it flows through
any of the other traditional taps in the property.

It's not a question of whether the tap has ceramic disks - but rather
whether the tap is designed to operate on low pressure gravity systems or
higher pressure mains-fed systems. There certainly *are* some modern ceramic
disk taps designed to work with low pressure gravity feeds (and the better
on-line retailers make this clear) - but the majority of modern taps are
designed for mains pressure and provide a poor flow with gravity fed
systems.

--
Triff

On 22/03/2011 10:43, Triffid wrote:
harry wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:12 pm, Old Codger wrote:
On 21/03/2011 19:41, Count de Monet wrote:

Incidentally, I have modern (ceramic disk) mixer taps in the kitchen.
The hot water flows through that tap just a well as it flows through
any of the other traditional taps in the property.

It's not a question of whether the tap has ceramic disks - but rather
whether the tap is designed to operate on low pressure gravity systems
or higher pressure mains-fed systems. There certainly *are* some modern
ceramic disk taps designed to work with low pressure gravity feeds (and
the better on-line retailers make this clear) - but the majority of
modern taps are designed for mains pressure and provide a poor flow with
gravity fed systems.

This (ceramic disk) mixer tap has cold at mains pressure on one side and
hot at low (header tank) pressure on the other. The hot output is
obviously slower than the cold but it is adequate and indistinguishable
from the output from all the other hot taps which are old fashioned
"washer" taps.

Do they make mixer taps with one low pressure side and one high pressure
side?

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

This is not to increase the flow to a shower, I can't stand for long due
to a disability, I need to up the flow of the upstairs hot water so the
bath fills without a long wait so a single impeller pump in the 22mm hot
flow is all I need. I was hoping this was easier than a: taking out a
perfectly good HW cylinder to replace with a mains pressure one or b:
raising the cold tank in the loft. The pump solution seems, for me the
easier DIY solution. The noise of the pump will only be heard when
running and I can live with that.

Has anyone installed a single impeller pump and which manufacturer was
preferred?

"Count de Monet" wrote in message
...
This is not to increase the flow to a shower, I can't stand for long due
to a disability, I need to up the flow of the upstairs hot water so the
bath fills without a long wait so a single impeller pump in the 22mm hot
flow is all I need. I was hoping this was easier than a: taking out a
perfectly good HW cylinder to replace with a mains pressure one or b:
raising the cold tank in the loft. The pump solution seems, for me the
easier DIY solution. The noise of the pump will only be heard when running
and I can live with that.

Has anyone installed a single impeller pump and which manufacturer was
preferred?

As I said before, Stuart Turner are the Rolls Royce. They have a clever
impeller (regenerative) which makes them quiet and powerful, and they are
brass and seem to last forever (and you can get spares if they die). I was
lucky enough to pick up a new one on eBay for about half list price.

BES lists a Grundfoss single impeller regenerative for only £112, but it is
plastic rather than brass. I was getting about 5 years out of cheap power
shower pumps before I moved to ST. BES also stocks several types of shower
pump flange.

19507 SSR-1.5 C (1.5 bar outlet) regenerative mains shower pump

On Mar 21, 9:57*pm, Count de Monet wrote:
This is not to increase the flow to a shower, I can't stand for long due
to a disability, I need to up the flow of the upstairs hot water so the
bath fills without a long wait so a single impeller pump in the 22mm hot
flow is all I need. I was hoping this was easier than a: taking out a
perfectly good HW cylinder to replace with a mains pressure one or b:
raising the cold tank in the loft. The pump solution seems, for me the
easier DIY solution. The noise of the pump will only be heard when
running and I can live with that.

Has anyone installed a single impeller pump and which manufacturer was
preferred?

You could get a mains pressure tank as an alternative, if the pump
doesn't suit.
However sometimes this can result in even slower fills.
As some one else remarked there can be problems with pumps sucking air
down the expansion pipe. There are several gadgets to help with this.
Have you considered just increasing the water temperature? Doesn't
fill any faster but you need less hot water (and obviously more cold).