Have seen made by Barrettine 'creocote' in Selco being sold for £4.75 for
4Litres.

Since creocote as it used to be has been banned, is this new product up to
scratch?

we had some fencing put up about five years ago and the timber running
horizontally along the top is now quickly going down hill, although the
vertical panes are fine.

Is this likeley to be worth the expense of applying such a product would you
say?

"john morgan" wrote in message
...
Have seen made by Barrettine 'creocote' in Selco being sold for
£4.75 for
4Litres.

Since creocote as it used to be has been banned, is this new product
up to
scratch?

we had some fencing put up about five years ago and the timber
running
horizontally along the top is now quickly going down hill, although
the
vertical panes are fine.

Is this likeley to be worth the expense of applying such a product
would you
say?




No idea if 'Creocote' is any good, but the original 'Creosote' is
still available to professional users, and an adequate 'Creosote
Substitute' is available from Wickes - if fact I have a man applying
it here as I type!

AWEM

In message , Andrew Mawson
writes

"john morgan" wrote in message
...
Have seen made by Barrettine 'creocote' in Selco being sold for
£4.75 for
4Litres.

Since creocote as it used to be has been banned, is this new product
up to
scratch?

we had some fencing put up about five years ago and the timber
running
horizontally along the top is now quickly going down hill, although
the
vertical panes are fine.

Is this likeley to be worth the expense of applying such a product
would you
say?




No idea if 'Creocote' is any good, but the original 'Creosote' is
still available to professional users, and an adequate 'Creosote
Substitute' is available from Wickes - if fact I have a man applying
it here as I type!

I have some original creosote and some of the replacement stuff (bought
just after they banned the original). They look and smell the same. Just
what IS the difference?
--
Ian

I have some original creosote and some of the replacement stuff (bought
just after they banned the original). They look and smell the same. Just
what IS the difference?

Ha. Ditto. Only difference that I can spot is that the price went up
3-fold, as soon as creosote was banned (in order to stop hordes of
diyers and gardeners keeling over and dying, as they had been doing in
their hundreds until then), and the miracle "special recipe" Creocote &
friends were created in its stead.

Not that I'm cynical :-)

John

p.s. to the OP, John Morgan: Yes, in my humble opinion creocote is just
as good as creosote.

Jj.

Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Andrew Mawson
writes

"john morgan" wrote in message
...
Have seen made by Barrettine 'creocote' in Selco being sold for
£4.75 for
4Litres.

Since creocote as it used to be has been banned, is this new product
up to
scratch?

we had some fencing put up about five years ago and the timber
running
horizontally along the top is now quickly going down hill, although
the
vertical panes are fine.

Is this likeley to be worth the expense of applying such a product
would you
say?




No idea if 'Creocote' is any good, but the original 'Creosote' is
still available to professional users, and an adequate 'Creosote
Substitute' is available from Wickes - if fact I have a man applying
it here as I type!

I have some original creosote and some of the replacement stuff (bought
just after they banned the original). They look and smell the same. Just
what IS the difference?

Quite a lot if you do a test with the two, on the same bit of wood, and
leave it outside in the rain and sun for 18months.
I will post a picture of one i did tomorrow.


-

In message , Mark
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Andrew Mawson
writes

"john morgan" wrote in message
...
Have seen made by Barrettine 'creocote' in Selco being sold for
£4.75 for
4Litres.

Since creocote as it used to be has been banned, is this new product
up to
scratch?

we had some fencing put up about five years ago and the timber
running
horizontally along the top is now quickly going down hill, although
the
vertical panes are fine.

Is this likeley to be worth the expense of applying such a product
would you
say?




No idea if 'Creocote' is any good, but the original 'Creosote' is
still available to professional users, and an adequate 'Creosote
Substitute' is available from Wickes - if fact I have a man applying
it here as I type!

I have some original creosote and some of the replacement stuff (bought
just after they banned the original). They look and smell the same. Just
what IS the difference?

Quite a lot if you do a test with the two, on the same bit of wood, and
leave it outside in the rain and sun for 18months.
I will post a picture of one i did tomorrow.

I look forward to seeing it. But would I be correct in guessing that the
new stuff isn't a patch on the old?
--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote:

I look forward to seeing it. But would I be correct in guessing that the
new stuff isn't a patch on the old?

I cannot say but as the old stuff was a by product of town gas plants ( the
product of thermal destructive distillation) and contained phenolic
compounds which were long lasting toxins...

I do know that life of fencing products has been drastically cut since the
newer copper organic salts were used.

AJH

In message , andrew
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:

I look forward to seeing it. But would I be correct in guessing that the
new stuff isn't a patch on the old?

I cannot say but as the old stuff was a by product of town gas plants ( the
product of thermal destructive distillation) and contained phenolic
compounds which were long lasting toxins...

I do know that life of fencing products has been drastically cut since the
newer copper organic salts were used.

I suspect that all the "goodness" has been taken out of the old
creosote!
--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote:


No idea if 'Creocote' is any good, but the original 'Creosote' is
still available to professional users, and an adequate 'Creosote
Substitute' is available from Wickes - if fact I have a man applying
it here as I type!

I have some original creosote and some of the replacement stuff (bought
just after they banned the original). They look and smell the same. Just
what IS the difference?

Quite a lot if you do a test with the two, on the same bit of wood, and
leave it outside in the rain and sun for 18months.
I will post a picture of one i did tomorrow.

I look forward to seeing it. But would I be correct in guessing that the
new stuff isn't a patch on the old?

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5296/sta40798.jpg
Left side original Coal Tar Creosote, right side Creocote from Toolstation
completely washed away in 18 months
I have no axe to grind about this, it would have been nice if the supposedly
safe replacement product did work as well as the original, and not just
smelled the same.

-

In message , Mark
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:


No idea if 'Creocote' is any good, but the original 'Creosote' is
still available to professional users, and an adequate 'Creosote
Substitute' is available from Wickes - if fact I have a man applying
it here as I type!

I have some original creosote and some of the replacement stuff (bought
just after they banned the original). They look and smell the same. Just
what IS the difference?

Quite a lot if you do a test with the two, on the same bit of wood, and
leave it outside in the rain and sun for 18months.
I will post a picture of one i did tomorrow.

I look forward to seeing it. But would I be correct in guessing that the
new stuff isn't a patch on the old?

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5296/sta40798.jpg
Left side original Coal Tar Creosote, right side Creocote from Toolstation
completely washed away in 18 months
I have no axe to grind about this, it would have been nice if the supposedly
safe replacement product did work as well as the original, and not just
smelled the same.

That's very revealing.

Of course, it may be that colour is not a good indicator of resistance
to rot. Some of the other wood preservatives are crystal clear.
--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Mark
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:


No idea if 'Creocote' is any good, but the original 'Creosote' is
still available to professional users, and an adequate 'Creosote
Substitute' is available from Wickes - if fact I have a man applying
it here as I type!

I have some original creosote and some of the replacement stuff
(bought just after they banned the original). They look and smell the
same. Just what IS the difference?

Quite a lot if you do a test with the two, on the same bit of wood, and
leave it outside in the rain and sun for 18months.
I will post a picture of one i did tomorrow.

I look forward to seeing it. But would I be correct in guessing that the
new stuff isn't a patch on the old?

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5296/sta40798.jpg
Left side original Coal Tar Creosote, right side Creocote from Toolstation
completely washed away in 18 months
I have no axe to grind about this, it would have been nice if the
supposedly safe replacement product did work as well as the original, and
not just smelled the same.

That's very revealing.

Of course, it may be that colour is not a good indicator of resistance
to rot. Some of the other wood preservatives are crystal clear.

indeed that could be true, but somehow i don't think so.


-

In article , andrew wrote:
I cannot say but as the old stuff was a by product of town gas plants ( the
product of thermal destructive distillation) and contained phenolic
compounds which were long lasting toxins...

Which is part of what made it effective of course. What you really want
is something that's a long lasting toxin to anything that might attack wood,
but not toxic to some handwavy value of "the environment in general".
It's not surprising that finding something that's good on both measures
isn't easy.

In message , Alan Braggins
writes
In article , andrew wrote:
I cannot say but as the old stuff was a by product of town gas plants ( the
product of thermal destructive distillation) and contained phenolic
compounds which were long lasting toxins...

Which is part of what made it effective of course. What you really want
is something that's a long lasting toxin to anything that might attack wood,
but not toxic to some handwavy value of "the environment in general".
It's not surprising that finding something that's good on both measures
isn't easy.

I would say it's impossible! I guess it's the toxicity which kills the
micro-bugs which are responsible for the deterioration of the wood.
Unfortunately, the same micro-bugs are needed to keep nature working.
The best compromise must surely consist of allowing the toxins to do
their job, but that the preservative stays in the wood, and doesn't wash
out or leach into the surroundings.

I understand that used engine oil, thinned with paraffin (or even
creosote), is a pretty effective preservative. I suppose that that too
would be frowned upon these days. Unfortunately these days, few people
service their own cars (I don't), so the ready availability (and
disposal) of used oil is a problem.
--
Ian

Alan Braggins wrote:

In article , andrew wrote:
I cannot say but as the old stuff was a by product of town gas plants (
the product of thermal destructive distillation) and contained phenolic
compounds which were long lasting toxins...

Which is part of what made it effective of course. What you really want
is something that's a long lasting toxin to anything that might attack
wood, but not toxic to some handwavy value of "the environment in
general". It's not surprising that finding something that's good on both
measures isn't easy.


Yes

The other point is that town coal gas plants don't exist anymore and I doubt
the ones making smokeless coal bother with condensing distillate. So
latterly creosote comes from oil and I wonder if that id treated to the
temperatures that change linear molecules to benzene rings. I'm assuming
its the phenolic compounds that inhibit fungi and kill bacteria. I think
that fungi are by far the major contribution to wood rot.

I'm told that utility poles are back with pressure treated creosote after
cca was banned and the copper organic salt not deemed long lived enough. It
will be interesting to see how the new wooden sleepers ( still used on
bridges) fair.

AJH

Used to get the real creosote pickle for railway sleepers. Burned like heck and still have "tattoo"40 years later, but the shed is as black as ever and the wood originally from a railway booking office floor is still as hard as the day the shed was built 50 years ago. Sadly all modern additions have had to be done in modern stuff and are already fading and losing protection after only 3 years.

Progress what!!!

As for the toxins leeching when putting up fence post we used to wrap in HD Polythene to stop it, also helps when fence needs moving just slide out. And yes the fence stood up to 1997 tornado through Suffolk!!

sorry meant 1987 tornado. 1997 was wife in a mood shed even withstood that

I know I know. I don't actually remember anyone saying there were mounting
bodies due to this substance or indeed massive wildlife loss. What exactly
was the problem with it?
When you buy treated timber it seems to me that the treatment goes in only
a little way, However some of the older treated timber I can recall when I
could see and you cut it, you could see it a long way inside the wood.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
wrote in message
...
Used to get the real creosote pickle for railway sleepers. Burned like heck
and still have "tattoo"40 years later, but the shed is as black as ever and
the wood originally from a railway booking office floor is still as hard as
the day the shed was built 50 years ago. Sadly all modern additions have had
to be done in modern stuff and are already fading and losing protection
after only 3 years.

Progress what!!!

As for the toxins leeching when putting up fence post we used to wrap in HD
Polythene to stop it, also helps when fence needs moving just slide out. And
yes the fence stood up to 1997 tornado through Suffolk!!

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
I know I know. I don't actually remember anyone saying there were mounting
bodies due to this substance or indeed massive wildlife loss. What exactly
was the problem with it?
When you buy treated timber it seems to me that the treatment goes in only
a little way, However some of the older treated timber I can recall when
I could see and you cut it, you could see it a long way inside the wood.
Brian

That would be pressure treated.
Eg telegraph poles.