Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

Regards

On 14/02/11 14:47, TMC wrote:
Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

It depends whether your router supports ADSL 2+ or not. If it does then
you should see some improvement. If your router only supports ADSL 1
then you shouldn't see any change.


--
Bernard Peek

On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:47:04 -0000, TMC wrote:

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

What speed do you currently get?

The "up to 24Mbps" ADSL2+ service really is pushing things very hard.
The graphs of speed v line length for ADSL2 and ADSL2+ that I have
seen have the two more or less the same after about 6 kilo feet
(1.8km).

I've also heard that on long lines switching to ADSL2+ makes things
worse as everything has to work "that bit harder". Might be worth a
bit of research into seeing if you modem can be forced into ADSL2
only mode. You may have to go in via the telnet command line
interface rather than the web one.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 14/02/2011 in message TMC
wrote:

Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

Regards

Probably not but live in hope anyway :-)

ADSL2 is no help on long lines. When I was converted the speed didn't
change but the line kept dropping. In the end I got my ISP to put me back
to ADSL.

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day.
Tomorrow, isn't looking good either.

In message , Tim
Streater writes
In article ,
"TMC" wrote:

Hi All
Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+
next week and that I could get faster broadband as a result
Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from
the green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted
together am I likely to see any improvement?

And do you have any old (i.e. more than 15 years or so) phones there?
If not, have you had the bell wire removed at the BT Master socket?
That will improve your speed.

From discussions on the support NG for my ISP (Demon), it would appear
that getting an upgrade from ADSL to ADSL2+ might, on occasions, be
detrimental to those hanging on the end of a long phone line.

My understanding is that, with a poor SNR, the modem/router can spend a
lot of time wondering what speed it can work at, and correcting errors
if it settles for a speed which is too high for comfort. It seemed that
if you were already getting at least 3Mb/s, the speed should definitely
increase. Less than that, and there is a chance that the speed COULD be
less. I only get 1.4Mb/s (albeit very solid), so it remains to be seen
what happens to me.

BTW, I have disconnected the 3rd (bell) wire. It made not a scrap of
difference - probably because the signal is too far gone in the first
place. But it does indeed work for some.
--
Ian

TMC wrote:
Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?


What do you currently get?

Chances are you MAY see a bit more.

Regards

"Bernard Peek" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/11 14:47, TMC wrote:
Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

It depends whether your router supports ADSL 2+ or not. If it does then
you should see some improvement. If your router only supports ADSL 1
then you shouldn't see any change.




Yes it does support adsl 2+

In message , TMC
writes

"Bernard Peek" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/11 14:47, TMC wrote:
Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

It depends whether your router supports ADSL 2+ or not. If it does then
you should see some improvement. If your router only supports ADSL 1
then you shouldn't see any change.




Yes it does support adsl 2+

I have to admit I've never explored what can be done with routers and
modems (regarding talking to them directly from the PC, and configuring
them to do what you want them to do). Am I wrong in thinking that you
should be able to lock a router into a lower-speed mode (where you know
it works OK) rather than allowing it to try for speeds which it cannot
attain reliably?
--
Ian

On 14/02/11 16:44, Ian Jackson wrote:

I have to admit I've never explored what can be done with routers and
modems (regarding talking to them directly from the PC, and configuring
them to do what you want them to do). Am I wrong in thinking that you
should be able to lock a router into a lower-speed mode (where you know
it works OK) rather than allowing it to try for speeds which it cannot
attain reliably?

There's nothing to stop a manufacturer building that capability in, and
perhaps some of them have.

--
Bernard Peek

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , TMC
writes

"Bernard Peek" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/11 14:47, TMC wrote:
Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+
next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from
the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

It depends whether your router supports ADSL 2+ or not. If it does then
you should see some improvement. If your router only supports ADSL 1
then you shouldn't see any change.




Yes it does support adsl 2+

I have to admit I've never explored what can be done with routers and
modems (regarding talking to them directly from the PC, and configuring
them to do what you want them to do). Am I wrong in thinking that you
should be able to lock a router into a lower-speed mode (where you know
it works OK) rather than allowing it to try for speeds which it cannot
attain reliably?

AFAIK that can only be done by the ISP/BT openreach at the DSLAM.

You can at best on some routers, sometimes adjust the gain downwards to
get a bit more stability, otherwise if its an ADSL signal not tied to a
fixed rate, it will auto negotiate (or not) to try and get the best.

In practice BT monitor resynchs and slap the noise margin down on the
dslam.

That effectively forces your router to connect with a better SNR at
slower speeds.

In article , TMC
scribeth thus
Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

Regards



At one of our remote suits we've been "upgraded" on a very similar line
some 6.5 K long prolly longer, well as best BT estimate it at, an its
been a bit better the upstream improved and we went from 1 and a bit to
3.5 M on the down with an 8 dB S/N ratio and its oddly enough been that
bit more stable..
--
Tony Sayer

On 14/02/2011 16:44, Ian Jackson wrote:


I have to admit I've never explored what can be done with routers and
modems (regarding talking to them directly from the PC, and configuring
them to do what you want them to do). Am I wrong in thinking that you
should be able to lock a router into a lower-speed mode (where you know
it works OK) rather than allowing it to try for speeds which it cannot
attain reliably?
Have both cable and ADSL here, (for various reasons) and certainly my
Netgear ADSL router, (with the DGT tool) can be told which SNR ratios to
use, which can effectively change the synch rate.

I get 14Mbps as standard (6db) and 16Mbps when tweaked (2db) on an "up
to 24Mb" connection.
By comparison, the previous router could only manage 10Mbps - everything
else being exactly the same.

Tweak it too far and it drops out - as you'd expect

Lee

TMC wrote:

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

Before cabletheft1 I was on ADSL1 and got about 2.4Mbps

Between cabletheft1 and cabletheft2 I got about 2.8Mbps

After cabletheft2 my speeds went *way* down and wouldn't recover until
my ISP reset BT's training data for my line, I then briefly went up to
3.2Mbps, but soon settled back down to 2.6Mbps

I then changed to a different package, not expecting it to switch me to
ADSL2+ but it did. On day one my ADSL1 router (Westell) connected at
3.6Mbps but wouldn't establish a PPP session, so I changed to an ADSL2+
router (Zyxel) and it connected at about 3.4Mbps and seemed quite solid
to me, but according to BT the line kept dropping, and the speed worked
its way back dowen to 2.2Mbps, In the meantime I've changed to a
different ADSL1 router (Cisco 837) and the connection is is now stable
at 2.2Mbps.

My neighbour has also switched from ADSL1 to ADSL2+ and his speed has
increased from 2.4Mbps to 2.8Mbps and stable, he does have an ADSL2+
router, can't remember the model.

Bernard Peek wrote:

On 14/02/11 16:44, Ian Jackson wrote:

Am I wrong in thinking that you
should be able to lock a router into a lower-speed mode (where you know
it works OK) rather than allowing it to try for speeds which it cannot
attain reliably?

There's nothing to stop a manufacturer building that capability in, and
perhaps some of them have.

The cisco 837 and 877 allow you offset the noise margin, transmit gain
and receive gain various by plus or minus a few dB - haven't finished
fiddling to see how much effect that can have yet ... but does seem to
be able to reduce the error rate by preventing it trying too hard for
the line.

Ian Jackson wrote:

From discussions on the support NG for my ISP (Demon), it would appear
that getting an upgrade from ADSL to ADSL2+ might, on occasions, be
detrimental to those hanging on the end of a long phone line.

That was the conclusion from speaking to one of the better techies at my
ISP too, and therefore I had wanted to stay on ADSL1 when I changed to a
different package from them, however I got regraded to ADSL2+ anyway,
and ended up losing my 832kbps upload speed into the bargain which I'd
"accidentally" got while I was on ADSL1 :-(

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
TMC wrote:

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

Before cabletheft1 I was on ADSL1 and got about 2.4Mbps

Between cabletheft1 and cabletheft2 I got about 2.8Mbps

After cabletheft2 my speeds went *way* down and wouldn't recover until
my ISP reset BT's training data for my line, I then briefly went up to
3.2Mbps, but soon settled back down to 2.6Mbps

I then changed to a different package, not expecting it to switch me to
ADSL2+ but it did. On day one my ADSL1 router (Westell) connected at
3.6Mbps but wouldn't establish a PPP session, so I changed to an ADSL2+
router (Zyxel) and it connected at about 3.4Mbps and seemed quite solid
to me, but according to BT the line kept dropping, and the speed worked
its way back dowen to 2.2Mbps, In the meantime I've changed to a
different ADSL1 router (Cisco 837) and the connection is is now stable
at 2.2Mbps.

My neighbour has also switched from ADSL1 to ADSL2+ and his speed has
increased from 2.4Mbps to 2.8Mbps and stable, he does have an ADSL2+
router, can't remember the model.



Hi Andy

Are these figues from your router or from speed checker sites?

I ask as my router shows 2.6Mbps at the moment was only showing 2.2Mbps
after second cable theft

Actual download tests from a range of speed check sites average out at
1.8Mbps

As I am with BT I use their 2wire router which is ADSL2+ compatible

Regards

TMC wrote:

Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+ next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

Regards

AT 6km from the exchange I think it's likely to be worse for you, as BT seem
to have included there god awful bRAS profile system on adsl2+

FWIW im now on Virgin, via Cable and Wireless LLU adsl2+ which does not use
a BT like bRAS profile, line Attenuation of 48dB, noisy overhead line at
night, and i went from 1.5 Mbps to 5.0 Mbps DL with the change from adsl to
adsl2+

-

TMC wrote:

Are these figues from your router or from speed checker sites?

Those are the sync speed of the router, IP profiles are usually a notch
down from the sync speed. Downloads are generally around 225 +/- 25 kB/s

As I am with BT I use their 2wire router which is ADSL2+ compatible

Supposedly good on ling lines, on;ly used one once, back in the fixed
profile 512kbps ADSL days

In article ,
says...
Supposedly good on ling lines,


Fishing around for a better connection?

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On Feb 14, 4:50*pm, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 14/02/11 16:44, Ian Jackson wrote:

I have to admit I've never explored what can be done with routers and
modems (regarding talking to them directly from the PC, and configuring
them to do what you want them to do). Am I wrong in thinking that you
should be able to lock a router into a lower-speed mode (where you know
it works OK) rather than allowing it to try for speeds which it cannot
attain reliably?

There's nothing to stop a manufacturer building that capability in, and
perhaps some of them have.

My Belkin has a hidden test page where I can individually enable/
disable every frequency bin. I am not going to try.

MBQ

On Feb 14, 6:08*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , TMC
writes

"Bernard Peek" wrote in message
...
On 14/02/11 14:47, TMC wrote:
Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+
next
week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from
the
green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together am I
likely to see any improvement?

It depends whether your router supports ADSL 2+ or not. If it does then
you should see some improvement. If your router only supports ADSL 1
then you shouldn't see any change.

Yes it does support adsl 2+

I have to admit I've never explored what can be done with routers and
modems (regarding talking to them directly from the PC, and configuring
them to do what you want them to do). Am I wrong in thinking that you
should be able to lock a router into a lower-speed mode (where you know
it works OK) rather than allowing it to try for speeds which it cannot
attain reliably?

AFAIK that can only be done by the ISP/BT openreach at the DSLAM.

You can at best on some routers, sometimes adjust the gain downwards to
get a bit more stability, otherwise if its an ADSL signal not tied to a
fixed rate, it will auto negotiate (or not) to try and get the best.

In practice BT monitor resynchs and slap the noise margin down on the
dslam.

Your ISP can change it (or get it changed). It's quite quick with
talktalk (on BT lines, no ISP hardware in our exchange).

MBQ

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...

I have to admit I've never explored what can be done with routers and
modems (regarding talking to them directly from the PC, and configuring
them to do what you want them to do). Am I wrong in thinking that you
should be able to lock a router into a lower-speed mode (where you know it
works OK) rather than allowing it to try for speeds which it cannot attain
reliably?

You can do this with some of the Netgear modem/routers. Though I think that
most people try to reduce the SNR margin to gain higher speeds!


--
Michael Chare

In message , TMC
writes
Hi All

Have just been told by BT that I am being moved from ADSL to ADSL2+
next week and that I could get faster broadband as a result

Considering that I am 6km from the exchange and that the cables from
the green boxes are circa 1966 aluminium and probably knotted together
am I likely to see any improvement?

Check that your modem can handle ADSL2+

I came up against this problem when Demon (spit) suddenly announced that
they were upgrading me the next day. I had to go out and buy a new modem
( the one they promised me didn't turn up)


--
geoff