Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

On Jan 21, 9:12*pm, CJC wrote:
Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. *Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
* * * * Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- * * * New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. *However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. *Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water. I say this because they are able to suck it out. You have to
look at the pipework and see if you can imagine a place where air/
gases might not be able to escape.
Because the pressure is low (fed from tank in loft) this "bubble"
can't be shifted. These days "plumbers" (as they call thmselves) don't
realise that on low pressure sytems the pipe works has to be installed
without high points, the air/gases has to be able to escape throught
the tap or back up to the vent (the one that curls over your tank in
the loft.)

The problem is you have employed ****** in the past who has buggered
up your system, it will need to be rectified for a permanent solution.

BTW, you don't need the Hoover. You need a short bit of hose to
connect the hot & cold taps. Open hot tap & then cold tap. Close in
reverse order. You might need assistant to hold the hoses in place.
Run for half a minute or so.This will push any air/gases out far more
thoroughly.
Adhere closely to above instructions or you will get wet!

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Jan 21, 9:12 pm, CJC wrote:
Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water. I say this because they are able to suck it out. You have to
look at the pipework and see if you can imagine a place where air/
gases might not be able to escape.
Because the pressure is low (fed from tank in loft) this "bubble"
can't be shifted. These days "plumbers" (as they call thmselves) don't
realise that on low pressure sytems the pipe works has to be installed
without high points, the air/gases has to be able to escape throught
the tap or back up to the vent (the one that curls over your tank in
the loft.)

The problem is you have employed ****** in the past who has buggered
up your system, it will need to be rectified for a permanent solution.

BTW, you don't need the Hoover. You need a short bit of hose to
connect the hot & cold taps. Open hot tap & then cold tap. Close in
reverse order. You might need assistant to hold the hoses in place.
Run for half a minute or so.This will push any air/gases out far more
thoroughly.
Adhere closely to above instructions or you will get wet!

I like harrys solution as it is easy and you can do it yourself,
If this works, even if you have to do every few weeks for a couple of months
then you can look for a permanent solution knowing what the cause is.

On Jan 22, 12:20*am, "SS" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...
On Jan 21, 9:12 pm, CJC wrote:



Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water. I say this because they are able to suck it out. *You have to
look at the pipework and see if you can imagine a place where air/
gases might not be able to escape.
Because the pressure is low (fed from tank in *loft) this "bubble"
can't be shifted. These days "plumbers" (as they call thmselves) don't
realise that on low pressure sytems the pipe works has to be installed
without high points, the air/gases has to be able to escape throught
the tap or back up to the vent (the one that curls over your tank in
the loft.)

The problem is you have employed ******* in the past who has buggered
up your system, it will need to be rectified for a permanent solution.

BTW, you don't need the Hoover. You need a short bit of hose to
connect the hot & cold taps. Open hot tap *& then cold tap. Close in
reverse order. You might need assistant to hold the hoses in place.
Run for half a minute or so.This will push any air/gases out far more
thoroughly.
Adhere closely to above instructions or you will get wet!

I like harrys solution as it is easy and you can do it yourself,
If this works, even if you have to do every few weeks for a couple of months
then you can look for a permanent solution knowing what the cause is.

Thanks for the response.

The only thing is, would the new boiler system change much of the
previous pipe work that worked for the previous system?

As far as I remember they change a little of the configuration of the
pipes in the airing cupboard to allow for the pump and controllers to
be placed conveniently but apart from that I think the pipe work would
have been the same.

Would getting a better pump resolve the gas bubble issue or is it
something that I am just going to have to sort out with the hose?

I would love to rectify it fully but stupidly the house has just
finished being decorated and I'd hate to pull up all the floors to put
in new pipes etc.

In the mean time I am off to buy a hose.

Thanks

On Jan 22, 12:07*pm, CJC wrote:
On Jan 22, 12:20*am, "SS" wrote:



"harry" wrote in message

....
On Jan 21, 9:12 pm, CJC wrote:

Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water. I say this because they are able to suck it out. *You have to
look at the pipework and see if you can imagine a place where air/
gases might not be able to escape.
Because the pressure is low (fed from tank in *loft) this "bubble"
can't be shifted. These days "plumbers" (as they call thmselves) don't
realise that on low pressure sytems the pipe works has to be installed
without high points, the air/gases has to be able to escape throught
the tap or back up to the vent (the one that curls over your tank in
the loft.)

The problem is you have employed ******* in the past who has buggered
up your system, it will need to be rectified for a permanent solution.

BTW, you don't need the Hoover. You need a short bit of hose to
connect the hot & cold taps. Open hot tap *& then cold tap. Close in
reverse order. You might need assistant to hold the hoses in place.
Run for half a minute or so.This will push any air/gases out far more
thoroughly.
Adhere closely to above instructions or you will get wet!

I like harrys solution as it is easy and you can do it yourself,
If this works, even if you have to do every few weeks for a couple of months
then you can look for a permanent solution knowing what the cause is.

Thanks for the response.

The only thing is, would the new boiler system change much of the
previous pipe work that worked for the previous system?

As far as I remember they change a little of the configuration of the
pipes in the airing cupboard to allow for the pump and controllers to
be placed conveniently but apart from that I think the pipe work would
have been the same.

Would getting a better pump resolve the gas bubble issue or is it
something that I am just going to have to sort out with the hose?

I would love to rectify it fully but stupidly the house has just
finished being decorated and I'd hate to pull up all the floors to put
in new pipes etc.

In the mean time I am off to buy a hose.

Thanks


Something doesn't look right about what's been said so far. You say
the cylinder's upstairs, yet an airlock is blocking water flow. Those
2 statements look fairly incompatible to me, if you've got that much
head, no matter how much air gets in there it'll simply get blasted
out by the water.

I suspect the issue may be this: The header tank feeding the HW
cylinder has a fill valve that isnt filling as fast as you're using
water, so eventually the header runs dry, air enters the cylinder, and
you lose head. This would explain the reduction of water flow and the
air appearing. In the end I can only guess though, having not seen the
system and not fully knowing its layout, or even type.


NT

[This followup was posted to uk.d-i-y and a copy was sent to the cited
author.]

In article ,
says...
If you have a genuine mixer tap (i.e. one that mixes rather than one
with separate concentric spouts, you can achieve the same effect by
putting you hand over the outlet to stop the flow, turn on the hot, and
then turn on the cold a little to force mains pressure water back up the
hot pipe.

Which is why such taps no longer comply with the rules - in case hot
water forces its way back into the mains and contaminates the supply.
Unlikely, I know, but IIRC, that's why.



--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

On Jan 22, 12:07*pm, CJC wrote:
On Jan 22, 12:20*am, "SS" wrote:





"harry" wrote in message

....
On Jan 21, 9:12 pm, CJC wrote:

Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water. I say this because they are able to suck it out. *You have to
look at the pipework and see if you can imagine a place where air/
gases might not be able to escape.
Because the pressure is low (fed from tank in *loft) this "bubble"
can't be shifted. These days "plumbers" (as they call thmselves) don't
realise that on low pressure sytems the pipe works has to be installed
without high points, the air/gases has to be able to escape throught
the tap or back up to the vent (the one that curls over your tank in
the loft.)

The problem is you have employed ******* in the past who has buggered
up your system, it will need to be rectified for a permanent solution.

BTW, you don't need the Hoover. You need a short bit of hose to
connect the hot & cold taps. Open hot tap *& then cold tap. Close in
reverse order. You might need assistant to hold the hoses in place.
Run for half a minute or so.This will push any air/gases out far more
thoroughly.
Adhere closely to above instructions or you will get wet!

I like harrys solution as it is easy and you can do it yourself,
If this works, even if you have to do every few weeks for a couple of months
then you can look for a permanent solution knowing what the cause is.

Thanks for the response.

The only thing is, would the new boiler system change much of the
previous pipe work that worked for the previous system?

As far as I remember they change a little of the configuration of the
pipes in the airing cupboard to allow for the pump and controllers to
be placed conveniently but apart from that I think the pipe work would
have been the same.

Would getting a better pump resolve the gas bubble issue or is it
something that I am just going to have to sort out with the hose?

I would love to rectify it fully but stupidly the house has just
finished being decorated and I'd hate to pull up all the floors to put
in new pipes etc.

In the mean time I am off to buy a hose.

Thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nearly all pipework should never be laid level, especially in long
runs. It could well be under the floor boards where the problem lies.
Only mains water can be level and laid without regard to falls.
Low pressure, steam and air for example needs to be laid to defined
and definite falls.

About the hose pipe. It's usually not possible to make a secure
connection with most taps. (ie withhose clips, it tends to slip
off.)
You end up having to wrap a piece of cloth round the hose an hold it
against the tap outlet. That's why you need assistance. One holds the
hose onto one tap. the other deals with the other tap. The object is
to get the high pressure mains water to flow into the hot tap. You
usually hear the air being displaced.
You only need a couple of feet of hose.
Don't try on mixer taps, they are sometimes fitted with non-return
valves which would defeat the operation. If the hot tap is closed when
the cold tap is open at any point you will get wet! :-)

On Jan 22, 3:58*pm, Tabby wrote:
On Jan 22, 12:07*pm, CJC wrote:



On Jan 22, 12:20*am, "SS" wrote:

"harry" wrote in message

....
On Jan 21, 9:12 pm, CJC wrote:

Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water. I say this because they are able to suck it out. *You have to
look at the pipework and see if you can imagine a place where air/
gases might not be able to escape.
Because the pressure is low (fed from tank in *loft) this "bubble"
can't be shifted. These days "plumbers" (as they call thmselves) don't
realise that on low pressure sytems the pipe works has to be installed
without high points, the air/gases has to be able to escape throught
the tap or back up to the vent (the one that curls over your tank in
the loft.)

The problem is you have employed ******* in the past who has buggered
up your system, it will need to be rectified for a permanent solution..

BTW, you don't need the Hoover. You need a short bit of hose to
connect the hot & cold taps. Open hot tap *& then cold tap. Close in
reverse order. You might need assistant to hold the hoses in place.
Run for half a minute or so.This will push any air/gases out far more
thoroughly.
Adhere closely to above instructions or you will get wet!

I like harrys solution as it is easy and you can do it yourself,
If this works, even if you have to do every few weeks for a couple of months
then you can look for a permanent solution knowing what the cause is.

Thanks for the response.

The only thing is, would the new boiler system change much of the
previous pipe work that worked for the previous system?

As far as I remember they change a little of the configuration of the
pipes in the airing cupboard to allow for the pump and controllers to
be placed conveniently but apart from that I think the pipe work would
have been the same.

Would getting a better pump resolve the gas bubble issue or is it
something that I am just going to have to sort out with the hose?

I would love to rectify it fully but stupidly the house has just
finished being decorated and I'd hate to pull up all the floors to put
in new pipes etc.

In the mean time I am off to buy a hose.

Thanks

Something doesn't look right about what's been said so far. You say
the cylinder's upstairs, yet an airlock is blocking water flow. Those
2 statements look fairly incompatible to me, if you've got that much
head, no matter how much air gets in there it'll simply get blasted
out by the water.

I suspect the issue may be this: The header tank feeding the HW
cylinder has a fill valve that isnt filling as fast as you're using
water, so eventually the header runs dry, air enters the cylinder, and
you lose head. This would explain the reduction of water flow and the
air appearing. In the end I can only guess though, having not seen the
system and not fully knowing its layout, or even type.

NT

Talking to local plumbing shop today. He also mentioned something
very similar to this. This had prompted me to take a look in the loft
and I have two tanks up there. One larger than the other. Please
ignore my ignorance but I sensed one must be for cold water and one
for hot? Someone had mentioned to me it could be possible that one of
these tanks are no longer in use which I am unsure. Unfortunately it
is really hard to look too much myself as they are in an eve with
restricted access.

However, whilst looking at the tanks I notice there are two brass taps
between the tanks are these the fill valves. Is there a danger of
changing them too much?

On Jan 22, 6:53*pm, harry wrote:
On Jan 22, 12:07*pm, CJC wrote:





On Jan 22, 12:20*am, "SS" wrote:

"harry" wrote in message

....
On Jan 21, 9:12 pm, CJC wrote:

Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water. I say this because they are able to suck it out. *You have to
look at the pipework and see if you can imagine a place where air/
gases might not be able to escape.
Because the pressure is low (fed from tank in *loft) this "bubble"
can't be shifted. These days "plumbers" (as they call thmselves) don't
realise that on low pressure sytems the pipe works has to be installed
without high points, the air/gases has to be able to escape throught
the tap or back up to the vent (the one that curls over your tank in
the loft.)

The problem is you have employed ******* in the past who has buggered
up your system, it will need to be rectified for a permanent solution..

BTW, you don't need the Hoover. You need a short bit of hose to
connect the hot & cold taps. Open hot tap *& then cold tap. Close in
reverse order. You might need assistant to hold the hoses in place.
Run for half a minute or so.This will push any air/gases out far more
thoroughly.
Adhere closely to above instructions or you will get wet!

I like harrys solution as it is easy and you can do it yourself,
If this works, even if you have to do every few weeks for a couple of months
then you can look for a permanent solution knowing what the cause is.

Thanks for the response.

The only thing is, would the new boiler system change much of the
previous pipe work that worked for the previous system?

As far as I remember they change a little of the configuration of the
pipes in the airing cupboard to allow for the pump and controllers to
be placed conveniently but apart from that I think the pipe work would
have been the same.

Would getting a better pump resolve the gas bubble issue or is it
something that I am just going to have to sort out with the hose?

I would love to rectify it fully but stupidly the house has just
finished being decorated and I'd hate to pull up all the floors to put
in new pipes etc.

In the mean time I am off to buy a hose.

Thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BTW, give it a real good blast of cold water, as much as possible.

On Jan 22, 7:06*pm, CJC wrote:
On Jan 22, 3:58*pm, Tabby wrote:





On Jan 22, 12:07*pm, CJC wrote:

On Jan 22, 12:20*am, "SS" wrote:

"harry" wrote in message

...
On Jan 21, 9:12 pm, CJC wrote:

Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water. I say this because they are able to suck it out. *You have to
look at the pipework and see if you can imagine a place where air/
gases might not be able to escape.
Because the pressure is low (fed from tank in *loft) this "bubble"
can't be shifted. These days "plumbers" (as they call thmselves) don't
realise that on low pressure sytems the pipe works has to be installed
without high points, the air/gases has to be able to escape throught
the tap or back up to the vent (the one that curls over your tank in
the loft.)

The problem is you have employed ******* in the past who has buggered
up your system, it will need to be rectified for a permanent solution.

BTW, you don't need the Hoover. You need a short bit of hose to
connect the hot & cold taps. Open hot tap *& then cold tap. Close in
reverse order. You might need assistant to hold the hoses in place.
Run for half a minute or so.This will push any air/gases out far more
thoroughly.
Adhere closely to above instructions or you will get wet!

I like harrys solution as it is easy and you can do it yourself,
If this works, even if you have to do every few weeks for a couple of months
then you can look for a permanent solution knowing what the cause is.

Thanks for the response.

The only thing is, would the new boiler system change much of the
previous pipe work that worked for the previous system?

As far as I remember they change a little of the configuration of the
pipes in the airing cupboard to allow for the pump and controllers to
be placed conveniently but apart from that I think the pipe work would
have been the same.

Would getting a better pump resolve the gas bubble issue or is it
something that I am just going to have to sort out with the hose?

I would love to rectify it fully but stupidly the house has just
finished being decorated and I'd hate to pull up all the floors to put
in new pipes etc.

In the mean time I am off to buy a hose.

Thanks

Something doesn't look right about what's been said so far. You say
the cylinder's upstairs, yet an airlock is blocking water flow. Those
2 statements look fairly incompatible to me, if you've got that much
head, no matter how much air gets in there it'll simply get blasted
out by the water.

I suspect the issue may be this: The header tank feeding the HW
cylinder has a fill valve that isnt filling as fast as you're using
water, so eventually the header runs dry, air enters the cylinder, and
you lose head. This would explain the reduction of water flow and the
air appearing. In the end I can only guess though, having not seen the
system and not fully knowing its layout, or even type.

NT

Talking to local plumbing shop today. *He also mentioned something
very similar to this. *This had prompted me to take a look in the loft
and I have two tanks up there. *One larger than the other. *Please
ignore my ignorance but I sensed one must be for cold water and one
for hot? *Someone had mentioned to me it could be possible that one of
these tanks are no longer in use which I am unsure. *Unfortunately it
is really hard to look too much myself as they are in an eve with
restricted access.

However, whilst looking at the tanks I notice there are two brass taps
between the tanks are these the fill valves. *Is there a danger of
changing them too much?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Traditionally, there would be a five gallon tank for the central
heating system (about 300mm x 300mm x 450 or so). This will be half
full or less. There is normally no water running in.out of this tank.

Then there is a forty gallon tank for your hot water system. (600mmx
600mm x 900mm or so.) When you open a hot tap, water runs from this
tank to your cylinder. It is replaced from a ball/float valve..
"Brass taps" is baffling unless you mean the ball/float valves. These
are connected to the cold water supply to keep the tanks full. Water
does not move between these tanks.

In message
,
Tabby writes
On Jan 22, 12:07*pm, CJC wrote:
On Jan 22, 12:20*am, "SS" wrote:



"harry" wrote in message

...
On Jan 21, 9:12 pm, CJC wrote:
I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.


It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water.
Thanks for the response.

The only thing is, would the new boiler system change much of the
previous pipe work that worked for the previous system?



Something doesn't look right about what's been said so far. You say
the cylinder's upstairs, yet an airlock is blocking water flow. Those
2 statements look fairly incompatible to me, if you've got that much
head, no matter how much air gets in there it'll simply get blasted
out by the water.

We can get airlocks in our upstairs paperwork (because of bad previous
installation). standard, indirect HW tank upstairs, with cistern in the
loft. Pipework from the cylinder to the bathroom duns a fairly long
distance, up into the roof space, when it gets to the bathroom, there ar
pipes going down to the shower, handbasin, WC and bath, the one to bath
runs down, along a bit and then up to the bath taps. AFAIK, this has all
or at least mostly been plumbed in 15mm.

HW flow to the bath is a bit ropey anyway, regularly get a bit of
spluttering etc. If however someone turns on the shower/tap/flushes
the loo when running a bath then normally it causes an airlock in the HW
pipe. Which generally doesn't clear itself, leastways not for a few days
at least. (can't even use the hose trick as the taps are all mixers,
easiest way is normally to open handbasin tap and put hand over the end
to force CW up the hot pipe that way)

I've never really managed to work out the mechanics of this, why drawing
off the CW say by flushing the toilet should cause an airlock in the HW?
It doesn't happen that often, now only if someone forgets, I'd do some
replumbing, but the bathrooms planned to go this year hopefully anyway.


I suspect the issue may be this: The header tank feeding the HW
cylinder has a fill valve that isnt filling as fast as you're using
water, so eventually the header runs dry, air enters the cylinder, and
you lose head. This would explain the reduction of water flow and the
air appearing. In the end I can only guess though, having not seen the
system and not fully knowing its layout, or even type.

Yup, this sounds like a possible explanation
--
Chris French

On Jan 24, 12:47*am, chris French
wrote:
In message
,
Tabby writes





On Jan 22, 12:07*pm, CJC wrote:
On Jan 22, 12:20*am, "SS" wrote:

"harry" wrote in message

...
On Jan 21, 9:12 pm, CJC wrote:
I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure..
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water.
Thanks for the response.

The only thing is, would the new boiler system change much of the
previous pipe work that worked for the previous system?

Something doesn't look right about what's been said so far. You say
the cylinder's upstairs, yet an airlock is blocking water flow. Those
2 statements look fairly incompatible to me, if you've got that much
head, no matter how much air gets in there it'll simply get blasted
out by the water.

We can get airlocks in our upstairs paperwork (because of bad previous
installation). standard, indirect HW tank upstairs, with cistern in the
loft. Pipework from the cylinder to the bathroom duns a fairly long
distance, up into the roof space, when it gets to the bathroom, there ar
pipes going down to the shower, handbasin, WC and bath, the one to bath
runs down, along a bit and then up to the bath taps. AFAIK, this has all
or at least mostly *been plumbed in 15mm.

HW flow to the bath is a bit ropey anyway, regularly get a bit of
spluttering etc. *If however someone *turns on the shower/tap/flushes
the loo when running a bath then normally it causes an airlock in the HW
pipe. Which generally doesn't clear itself, leastways not for a few days
at least. (can't even use the hose trick as the taps are all mixers,
easiest way is normally to open handbasin tap and put hand over the end
to force CW up the hot pipe that way)

I've never really managed to work out the mechanics of this, why drawing
off the CW say by flushing the toilet should cause an airlock in the HW?
It doesn't happen that often, now only if someone forgets, I'd do some
replumbing, but the bathrooms planned to go this year hopefully anyway.



I suspect the issue may be this: The header tank feeding the HW
cylinder has a fill valve that isnt filling as fast as you're using
water, so eventually the header runs dry, air enters the cylinder, and
you lose head. This would explain the reduction of water flow and the
air appearing. In the end I can only guess though, having not seen the
system and not fully knowing its layout, or even type.

Yup, this sounds like a possible explanation
--
Chris French- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It sounds as if your system is/has evolved into a really bad design.
When the work is done, you (or someone) needs to have a good think
about where things are located and how/where pipes are to run. Don't
dot things about randomly or simply for convenience. It usually ends
up very inconvenient.

In message , chris French
writes
In message
,
Tabby

writes
I've never really managed to work out the mechanics of this, why
drawing off the CW say by flushing the toilet should cause an airlock
in the HW? It doesn't happen that often, now only if someone forgets,
I'd do some replumbing, but the bathrooms planned to go this year
hopefully anyway.


I suspect the issue may be this: The header tank feeding the HW
cylinder has a fill valve that isnt filling as fast as you're using
water, so eventually the header runs dry, air enters the cylinder, and
you lose head. This would explain the reduction of water flow and the
air appearing. In the end I can only guess though, having not seen the
system and not fully knowing its layout, or even type.

Yup, this sounds like a possible explanation

Some time back here, there was a suggestion to double up the ball cocks
feeding the header tank. Are there any *gotchers* to this solution? Air
lock is a regular problem here although the pipe routeing would not seem
to encourage it. Youngsters showering (pumped system) and emptying the
header is obvious but guests using a remote gravity fed bathroom, less
so.

Supply pressure is around 5 bar so more noise. Anything else?

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On Jan 22, 12:20*am, "SS" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...
On Jan 21, 9:12 pm, CJC wrote:





Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

It's probable that someone has installed your hot water pipe with a
high point that fills up with gases/air that are dissolved in the
water. I say this because they are able to suck it out. *You have to
look at the pipework and see if you can imagine a place where air/
gases might not be able to escape.
Because the pressure is low (fed from tank in *loft) this "bubble"
can't be shifted. These days "plumbers" (as they call thmselves) don't
realise that on low pressure sytems the pipe works has to be installed
without high points, the air/gases has to be able to escape throught
the tap or back up to the vent (the one that curls over your tank in
the loft.)

The problem is you have employed ******* in the past who has buggered
up your system, it will need to be rectified for a permanent solution.

BTW, you don't need the Hoover. You need a short bit of hose to
connect the hot & cold taps. Open hot tap *& then cold tap. Close in
reverse order. You might need assistant to hold the hoses in place.
Run for half a minute or so.This will push any air/gases out far more
thoroughly.
Adhere closely to above instructions or you will get wet!

I like harrys solution as it is easy and you can do it yourself,
If this works, even if you have to do every few weeks for a couple of months
then you can look for a permanent solution knowing what the cause is.

Presumably there is no stop cock in the way? An old system then.

I have the same problem almost a trickle to fill the bath and bloody
knocking when I use any tap, cold ones too.

When I move out I am going to write a long list of stuff the landlord
expects me to do at my initial expense then get just a reimburement
for the materials. Then I am going to give it to my neighbours and
tell them to pass it on to the next unfortunate.

And write a not to myself not to get caught like that again. Notr tell
anyone that i am a carpenter. For some reason that translates as
plumber / dick head with some people.

CJC wrote:
Dear all,

I wonder if you can help.

I am having issues with my hot water, in regards to water pressure.
Long usage will result in the water chugging as though an air lock
wants to form. Or showers (which is a mixer tap, not power or
electric) are so weak and frustrating.

I remember my system running fairly adequately when I first moved in
but not no longer.

Things that have changed since:

- New boiler, pumps and controls
Heating system consists of tank in loft, cylinder upstairs (original
one),
boiler downstairs and bathroom downstairs only.

- New washing machine which is now cold fill only (no idea if its
related but as it no longer uses the hot fill, I thought I’d add it
in)

Now I have called in someone to check the issue and each time it has
happened they remove the lock by either draining the system or sucking
it out with a hoover. However, just a few weeks later the problem
comes back.

I wonder if there is anything I can do to improve the situation. Am I
right in thinking the issue is related to lack of pressure in the hot
water??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I am going mad with the
current situation.

It's possible that you have a partial blockage on the outlet side of your
hot water header tank. It could be something as simple as a gate valve
that's not fully open or it could be that the pipe is internally corroded
(if it's not copper) or some sludge/crud/dead bird has fallen to the bottom
of your tank and is partially blocking the outlet.

When this happen, drawing water from the hot tank pulls air into the system
via the expansion pipe (which usually curves over the top of the header tank
in the loft.

Got a camera? A few pictures would help.

Tim