http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ze-Heres-.html

Well I am very happy with mine...am I unique?

"Vortex10" wrote in message
...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ze-Heres-.html

Well I am very happy with mine...am I unique?



Some daft responses from readers (eg the one with the draughty front door)

I had a frozen condensate pipe - so I need to think about re-routing it in
the better weather. In the meantime it is working with a by-pass. No reason
to condemn the boiler type. Know your system - understand the fault codes -
take some responsibility.

On 29/12/2010 9:02 AM, John wrote:
wrote in message
...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ze-Heres-.html

Well I am very happy with mine...am I unique?



Some daft responses from readers (eg the one with the draughty front door)

I had a frozen condensate pipe - so I need to think about re-routing it in
the better weather. In the meantime it is working with a by-pass. No reason
to condemn the boiler type. Know your system - understand the fault codes -
take some responsibility.



I think teh article itself also contains a load of misinformed
********.....but then it is the Daily Mail.

"Vortex10" wrote in message
...


I think teh article itself also contains a load of misinformed
********.....but then it is the Daily Mail.

I read it, most of it is true. What do you have issues with?

On 29/12/2010 11:06 AM, dennis@home wrote:


"Vortex10" wrote in message
...


I think teh article itself also contains a load of misinformed
********.....but then it is the Daily Mail.

I read it, most of it is true. What do you have issues with?

The statement under the photo:

"In cold weather, the pipe that takes waste water from the back of the
condensing boiler - which isn’t there in a normal boiler - freezes
solid, shutting down the system."

Inaccurate scaremongering ********. It's not the boiler manufacturers'
fault if it is installed incompetently.

On 29/12/2010 12:36, Vortex10 wrote:
On 29/12/2010 11:06 AM, dennis@home wrote:


"Vortex10" wrote in message
...


I think teh article itself also contains a load of misinformed
********.....but then it is the Daily Mail.

I read it, most of it is true. What do you have issues with?

The statement under the photo:

"In cold weather, the pipe that takes waste water from the back of the
condensing boiler - which isn’t there in a normal boiler - freezes
solid, shutting down the system."

Inaccurate scaremongering ********. It's not the boiler manufacturers'
fault if it is installed incompetently.

'Illegal to fit any other kind' - exceptions apply I thought.

'£2000 for a better new boiler' - £1000 nearer the mark.

Most of the first half, and the final sentence, of the article refers to
installation problems, not the boiler or its technology.

'No point replacing a functioning older boiler' - 2 points - scrappage,
cheaper to run.

A number of points require technical knowledge - condensing temps,
acidic water and corrosion. I see little point trusting that source,
although from what little I know I do think the whole condensing boiler
issue has been poorly thought through.

Rob

"Vortex10" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2010 11:06 AM, dennis@home wrote:


"Vortex10" wrote in message
...


I think teh article itself also contains a load of misinformed
********.....but then it is the Daily Mail.

I read it, most of it is true. What do you have issues with?

The statement under the photo:

"In cold weather, the pipe that takes waste water from the back of the
condensing boiler - which isn’t there in a normal boiler - freezes solid,
shutting down the system."

Inaccurate scaremongering ********. It's not the boiler manufacturers'
fault if it is installed incompetently.

However it is perfectly true and is correct in the context of the story.
It is freezing of this pipe that caused most of the breakdowns as they said.

dennis@home wrote:
"Vortex10" wrote in message
...


I think teh article itself also contains a load of misinformed
********.....but then it is the Daily Mail.

I read it, most of it is true. What do you have issues with?

Most of it is scare-mongering ********.

In article ,
says...
I think teh article itself also contains a load of misinformed
********.....but then it is the Daily Mail.


Ah - the Bile Duct strikes again.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

In message , John
wrote

I had a frozen condensate pipe - so I need to think about re-routing it in
the better weather. In the meantime it is working with a by-pass. No reason
to condemn the boiler type. Know your system - understand the fault codes -
take some responsibility.

Or get back the highly trained GasSafe engineers to install them
correctly!

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 08:54:27 +0000, Vortex10 wrote:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ze-Heres-.html

Well I am very happy with mine...am I unique?

Probaly not, because plenty of people have been taken in.

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a very doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no comparison.

My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but sadly, it will have to go
soon. :-(

In article ,
Andy Cap wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 08:54:27 +0000, Vortex10 wrote:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ze-Heres-.html

Well I am very happy with mine...am I unique?

Probaly not, because plenty of people have been taken in.

How so?

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a very
doubtful saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no
comparison.

I suppose it depends on your gas usage. If you have a small well insulated
house, any savings in gas bills might not be recoverable. But it's
difficult to estimate like for like replacement costs when your old boiler
fails since condensers are now the norm.

My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but sadly, it will have
to go soon. :-(

My estimate is at current gas prices my condenser is saving me 300 quid a
year over the original RS one. One more year and it will have paid for
itself.

As with the old one, I don't believe in paying out for so called
maintenance.

Like all these things you have to buy a decently designed and built one.
Fitting the cheapest on the market may mean you pay more in the long run.

--
*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:28:22 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

How so?


Because they believe they are saving money.

I suppose it depends on your gas usage. If you have a small well insulated
house, any savings in gas bills might not be recoverable. But it's
difficult to estimate like for like replacement costs when your old boiler
fails since condensers are now the norm.

My bill this year. including latest increase will be £500, so I guess I could
save £125 ???? Over 10 years, that wouldn't pay for a replacement. I find it
amazing that some people now believe that anything over 5 years is satisfactory.
Boilers have been cleverly positioned in the same sector are washing machines
and dishwashers, which don't have the associated installation costs.

My estimate is at current gas prices my condenser is saving me 300 quid a
year over the original RS one. One more year and it will have paid for
itself.

As with the old one, I don't believe in paying out for so called
maintenance.

The unnecessary complexity makes it almost inevitable unless you are *very*
lucky.

Like all these things you have to buy a decently designed and built one.
Fitting the cheapest on the market may mean you pay more in the long run.

Can't argue with that, one the decision has to be made.

In article ,
Andy Cap wrote:

The unnecessary complexity makes it almost inevitable unless you are
*very* lucky.

Which parts of this 'unnecessary complexity' do you think will fail? I
know the PCBs on some badly designed boilers give trouble - but then so
did those on some non condensing types.

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 13:15:45 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Cap wrote:

The unnecessary complexity makes it almost inevitable unless you are
*very* lucky.

Which parts of this 'unnecessary complexity' do you think will fail? I
know the PCBs on some badly designed boilers give trouble - but then so
did those on some non condensing types.

What PCB ? ;-)

Yes the ridiculously expensive PCBs and just the regular stream of horror
stories. OOI what does BG charge for a 'service'? A mate of a mate left BG
because he wasn't allowed to do anything other than place a 'sniffer' in the
flue ?? They rust through simple neglect and the early unavailability of spare
parts is all very suspicious.

What would you suggest as the most reliable boiler/manufacturer because I'm
going to have to bite the bullet soon. I'm genuinely concerned at having my
present very modest outgoings, go through the roof when I get it changed.

On Dec 29, 11:33*am, Andy Cap wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:28:22 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

wrote:

How so?

Because they believe they are saving money.

I suppose it depends on your gas usage. If you have a small well insulated
house, any savings in gas bills might not be recoverable. But it's
difficult to estimate like for like replacement costs when your old boiler
fails since condensers are now the norm.

My bill this year. including latest increase will be 500, so I guess I could
save 125 ???? *Over 10 years, that wouldn't pay for a replacement. I find it
amazing that some people now believe that anything over 5 years is satisfactory.
Boilers have been cleverly positioned in the same sector are washing machines
and dishwashers, which don't have the associated installation costs.

My estimate is at current gas prices my condenser is saving me 300 quid a
year over the original RS one. One more year and it will have paid for
itself.

As with the old one, I don't believe in paying out for so called
maintenance. *

*The unnecessary complexity makes it almost inevitable unless you are *very*
lucky.

Like all these things you have to buy a decently designed and built one.
Fitting the cheapest on the market may mean you pay more in the long run..

Can't argue with that, one the decision has to be made.

The price of gas will rise.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 11:33:51 +0000, Andy Cap wrote:

As with the old one, I don't believe in paying out for so called
maintenance.

If you've got an old conventional flue boiler that's a good plan. If it
needs maintenance it'll quite possibly just soot up and the carbon
monoxide will kill you, then you won't have to even worry about gas bills.


The unnecessary complexity makes it almost inevitable unless you are *very*
lucky.

Actually that's not a like-for-like comparison.

Standard efficiency non-condensing boilers have for decades had
fanned flues, and the fan eventually packs up (ask Geoff: he makes a
living from selling refurbished ones) so there you've got a non-condensing
boiler that's less reliable than a non-condensing boiler.

And for decades boilers have had electronic ignition and a bunch of
electronics which occasionally fails (ask Geoff about that too) even
though they should be vastly more reliable than some of them are (cough!
Suprima cough!)

And increasingly boilers have had the system pump built-in rather than
installed externally. And many are combis, which moves the diverter valve
out of the airing cupboard and into the boiler, so now when either pump or
valve goes wrong (which they do periodically) it's the "boiler" that's
broken down, not the external component.

And most boilers also have an expansion vessel and pressure-relief
discharge valve built-in instead of having a feed and expansion ("header")
tank in the attic, so instead of the ball valve in the tank failing, if
the PRD valve or expansion vessel fails it's a "boiler" fault again.

Condensing boilers add the elements of a condensate drain which can
freeze or otherwise block up if incorrectly installed - which also gets
the boiler the blame.

To be fair most high efficiency (condensing) boilers also have heat
exchangers with narrow waterways, most of which are arranged in a loop in
a vertical plane, which are asking to get blocked up by the sort of crud
found in an old, poorly cleaned or poorly maintained system.
http://www.gas-news.co.uk/archive/st...mment/1006.htm

And most have more smarts in the gas-air mixing arrangement feeding the
burner (like electronic fuel injection in a car) so we should probably
expect some duff designs amongst the new generation of boilers.

Even so the single most notoriously unreliable new generation condensing
boiler design owes its unreliability to its electronics which is nothing to
do with condensing technology and everything to do with bad design.


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous

On 3 Jan 2011 21:59:09 GMT Yaph wrote :
Even so the single most notoriously unreliable new generation condensing
boiler design owes its unreliability to its electronics which is nothing
to with condensing technology and everything to do with bad design.

Potterton Envoy? (which I had the misfortune to own at one time)

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.eurobeam.co.uk www.greentram.com

"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a very
doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no comparison.

My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but sadly, it will have to
go
soon. :-(


That's about the same as mine.
However with a heating bill of about £300 pa there just isn't any prospect
of getting the cost of a new condensing boiler back, ever!
And I doubt if many condensing boilers were actually condensing in the
weather we have had in the last few weeks or with the forecast weather.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
That's about the same as mine. However with a heating bill of about £300
pa there just isn't any prospect of getting the cost of a new
condensing boiler back, ever! And I doubt if many condensing boilers
were actually condensing in the weather we have had in the last few
weeks or with the forecast weather.

Given the plume from the exhaust on mine, it appears to condense in all
weathers.

--
*I have my own little world - but it's OK...they know me here*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
That's about the same as mine. However with a heating bill of about £300
pa there just isn't any prospect of getting the cost of a new
condensing boiler back, ever! And I doubt if many condensing boilers
were actually condensing in the weather we have had in the last few
weeks or with the forecast weather.

Given the plume from the exhaust on mine, it appears to condense in all
weathers.

Plumes mean nothing.. I get a plume from my non condensing boiler when its
cold. The cold air mixes in and causes the flu gases to condense making a
plume.

What's the return temp, that is what determines how much it condenses.

The only certain way to know is to measure the condensate, you get a fixed
conversion between the gas burnt and the amount of water generated. You can
actually workout how much is condensed in the heat exchanger where it is
useful, anywhere else and it isn't.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
Given the plume from the exhaust on mine, it appears to condense in all
weathers.

Plumes mean nothing.. I get a plume from my non condensing boiler when
its cold. The cold air mixes in and causes the flu gases to condense
making a plume.

There's a big difference between the plume from a condensing and non
condensing boiler.

--
*I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

dennis@home wrote:
"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a very
doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no
comparison. My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but sadly, it
will
have to go
soon. :-(


That's about the same as mine.
However with a heating bill of about £300 pa there just isn't any
prospect of getting the cost of a new condensing boiler back, ever!
And I doubt if many condensing boilers were actually condensing in the
weather we have had in the last few weeks or with the forecast
weather.

So all these frozen condensate drains were figments of the owners
imagination?

Tim

Daily Mail bolleaux.

Plumbing trade secrets;
1) water freezes at 0 degC
and
2) **** flows downhill.

Is this too technical for the UK plumbing industry? Yes, apparently it
is.
What do they do in Europe, Scandinavia, Russia, USA, etc., where they
use condensing boilers AND they have serious amounts of snow and ice
in winters that last for months?
Simple; run the condense pipe indoors OR lag it and trace heat it.
Lagging alone will reduce the risk of freezing, but will not prevent
it. The pipe has to be open to the atmosphere and the air inside will
be freezing.

"Onetap" wrote in message
...

Is this too technical for the UK plumbing industry? Yes, apparently it
is.
What do they do in Europe, Scandinavia, Russia, USA, etc., where they
use condensing boilers AND they have serious amounts of snow and ice
in winters that last for months?
Simple; run the condense pipe indoors OR lag it and trace heat it.
Lagging alone will reduce the risk of freezing, but will not prevent
it. The pipe has to be open to the atmosphere and the air inside will
be freezing.


Why does it have to be open?
Inside ones are not always open so why external ones.

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a very
doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no
comparison. My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but sadly,
it will
have to go
soon. :-(


That's about the same as mine.
However with a heating bill of about £300 pa there just isn't any
prospect of getting the cost of a new condensing boiler back, ever!
And I doubt if many condensing boilers were actually condensing in the
weather we have had in the last few weeks or with the forecast
weather.

So all these frozen condensate drains were figments of the owners
imagination?

I said "many" not all, maybe all the ones that froze were condensing and
wouldn't have frozen if the owner knew that they could wind the return temp
up and avoid condensate going down the pipe? There you are just wind them up
to be non condensing when they are using most gas, easy if somewhat
expensive.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 11:58:01 +0000, Tim Downie wrote:

dennis@home wrote:
"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a very
doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no comparison.
My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but sadly, it will
have to go
soon. :-(


That's about the same as mine.
However with a heating bill of about £300 pa there just isn't any
prospect of getting the cost of a new condensing boiler back, ever! And
I doubt if many condensing boilers were actually condensing in the
weather we have had in the last few weeks or with the forecast weather.

So all these frozen condensate drains were figments of the owners
imagination?

LOL!

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

Tim Downie wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a
very doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no
comparison. My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but
sadly, it will
have to go
soon. :-(


That's about the same as mine.
However with a heating bill of about £300 pa there just isn't any
prospect of getting the cost of a new condensing boiler back, ever!
And I doubt if many condensing boilers were actually condensing in
the weather we have had in the last few weeks or with the forecast
weather.

So all these frozen condensate drains were figments of the owners
imagination?

Pipes freeze in winter shock! Pictures on pages 7-23

Steve Walker wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a
very doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no
comparison. My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but
sadly, it will
have to go
soon. :-(


That's about the same as mine.
However with a heating bill of about £300 pa there just isn't any
prospect of getting the cost of a new condensing boiler back, ever!
And I doubt if many condensing boilers were actually condensing in
the weather we have had in the last few weeks or with the forecast
weather.

So all these frozen condensate drains were figments of the owners
imagination?

Pipes freeze in winter shock! Pictures on pages 7-23

Nipples are bigger in the cold weather, read all about it in the Sun
--
Adam

On Dec 29, 11:58*am, "Tim Downie" wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"Andy Cap" wrote in message
.. .

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, *there is a very
doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no
comparison. My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but sadly, it
will
have to go
soon. * :-(

That's about the same as mine.
However with a heating bill of about £300 pa there just isn't any
prospect of getting the cost of a new condensing boiler back, ever!
And I doubt if many condensing boilers were actually condensing in the
weather we have had in the last few weeks or with the forecast
weather.

So all these frozen condensate drains were figments of the owners
imagination?

Tim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, poor installation. The condense should have been piped to an
internal drain.

On 30/12/2010 14:24 harry wrote:

No, poor installation. The condense should have been piped to an
internal drain.

Our boiler is in the garage and there's no drain in there. The
condensate pipe goes through the wall at just below boiler level and
then outside to an elbow. The elbow hangs into a vertical plastic pipe
which leads to an external drain around three metres away. And the
condensate freezes and backs up until it eventually blocks the exit pipe
at the elbow.

Solution? Lower the external vertical pipe until there's a gap of around
20mm between the top of it and the bottom of the elbow. In non-freezing
conditions the condensate drips, falls down inside the vertical pipe and
is carried away. In freezing conditions it gradually backs up the pipe
until it reaches the top. After that, it hits the ice plug, runs down
the outside of the vertical pipe and freezes to it but doesn't build up
to block the elbow.

Crude, simple, far from ideal, but it costs nothing and solves the problem.

--
F

dennis@home wrote:
"Andy Cap" wrote in message
...

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a very
doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no
comparison. My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but sadly, it
will
have to go
soon. :-(


That's about the same as mine.
However with a heating bill of about £300 pa there just isn't any
prospect of getting the cost of a new condensing boiler back, ever!


And I doubt if many condensing boilers were actually condensing in the
weather we have had in the last few weeks or with the forecast
weather.

So how did the condensate pipe manage to freeze then?

--
Adam

On 29/12/2010 12:37, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
"Andy wrote in message
...

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a very
doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no
comparison. My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but sadly, it
will
have to go
soon. :-(


That's about the same as mine.
However with a heating bill of about £300 pa there just isn't any
prospect of getting the cost of a new condensing boiler back, ever!


And I doubt if many condensing boilers were actually condensing in the
weather we have had in the last few weeks or with the forecast
weather.

So how did the condensate pipe manage to freeze then?


Yes, I don't follow that, and as I posted, gallons of condensate has
come out of my boiler in the past week or two.

In article om, Rob
writes

Yes, I don't follow that, and as I posted, gallons of condensate has
come out of my boiler in the past week or two.

Hint for dennis: *warm* condensate.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Rob wrote:
On 29/12/2010 12:37, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
"Andy wrote in message
...

Simply in terms of longevity and replacement costs, there is a
very doubtful
saving. Add maintenance and breakdown costs and there's no
comparison. My boiler has cost me £136 in close on 30 years but
sadly, it will
have to go
soon. :-(


That's about the same as mine.
However with a heating bill of about £300 pa there just isn't any
prospect of getting the cost of a new condensing boiler back, ever!


And I doubt if many condensing boilers were actually condensing in
the weather we have had in the last few weeks or with the forecast
weather.

So how did the condensate pipe manage to freeze then?


Yes, I don't follow that, and as I posted, gallons of condensate has
come out of my boiler in the past week or two.

Just Dennis talking ********.

--
Adam

Vortex10 wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ze-Heres-.html

Well I am very happy with mine...am I unique?

Not at all. There are plenty of happy owners, even those who had to de-ice
once or twice.

However, Daily Mail = ********.
--
Adam

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 08:54:27 +0000, Vortex10 wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ntral-heating-
break-big-freeze-Heres-.html

Well I am very happy with mine...am I unique?

Not at all. Ours is fine, the condensate pipe was installed with a good
fall, a wide bore, and insulation. Despite very low temperatures, no
problem.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 08:54:27 +0000, Vortex10 wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ntral-heating-
break-big-freeze-Heres-.html

Well I am very happy with mine...am I unique?

Not at all. Ours is fine, the condensate pipe was installed with a good
fall, a wide bore, and insulation. Despite very low temperatures, no
problem.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor


---
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But the article was not just about the unreliability and possibly the
maintenance cost of the condensing boiler for Mr and Mrs Average but its
actual running cost when you expect the efficiency to be at its best. I can
only say of the folk we know with a condensing boilers, a little under 25%
have had problems involving £200 + parts (circuit boards most frequently
mentioned item) and labour bills with 2 in 10 buying a new boiler because
the cost of the repair does not appear to make sense. Not one has got
details to say 'yes our gas bill has dropped by ££ or know what their fuel
usage was before and after and all of them generalise by saying "our bills
are smaller now", which should be the case and is what the marketing
salesmanship have got then to repeat. I admit I do not know the make and
models so it could be a factor here?

At the end of the day the question remains, have any of them recovered the
initial replacement costs and ongoing parts replacement after taking out
their old but working unit for new boiler?? Not one can confirm they have
broke-even but all know it is 'saving them money and 'estimate' they are
saving £££'.

Many folk also have beefed up their insulation / draft-proofing, turned down
the house temperature etc etc so no longer is it a level playing field for
them to justify the actual saving that was down to the boiler.

Gio




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On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 11:03:02 +0000, Gio wrote:

... I can
only say of the folk we know with a condensing boilers, a little under 25%
have had problems involving £200 + parts (circuit boards most frequently
mentioned item)

Ideal Icos and Isar, by any chance?


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Little Johnny's gone away, his like we'll see no more
For what he thought was H20 was H2SO4

In article , Vortex10
writes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...heating-break-
big-freeze-Heres-.html

You know the article is going to be a load of **** when the opening
sentence is a dig at NuLab.

The Mail is supposed to be one of the most popular on-line news sites,
god only knows why. The level of intelligence required to read it is
only marginally more than that required to view page 3 of the Sun.

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