OK, I got the tiles (25mm x 40mm) with 5mm gap up on the kitchen wall
above the work surface.

Next stage is to do the grouting.

Do I need special tool for that or can I just make up grout mix and poke
it into gaps with my finger and smooth off with, say, a pencil? With
such large tiles , it doesn't seem to be need for a grout float?

Do I fill the horizontals first or the verticals? Or does it not make no
difference?

I am minded to fill internal corner joints with silicone instead of
grout. Is that the recommended way?

Also, fill the joint between work surface and bottom row of tiles with
silicone bead? Is that good/bad?

Ed

On 2 Nov, 14:28, Ed ex@directory wrote:
OK, I got the tiles (25mm x 40mm) with 5mm gap up on the kitchen wall
above the work surface.

eh? 250 X 400mm shurely?


Next stage is to do the grouting.

Do I need special tool for that or can I just make up grout mix and poke
it into gaps with my finger and smooth off with, say, a pencil?

whatever you fancy tho don;t use a colour printed pencil as the colour
can come off onto your grout.....

With
such large tiles , it doesn't seem to be need for a grout float?

grout squegee?


Do I fill the horizontals first or the verticals? Or does it not make no
difference?

no difference

I am minded to fill internal corner joints with silicone instead of
grout. Is that the recommended way?

depends how much hammer they are likely to get? some would say
silicone corners bit OTT?

Also, fill the joint between work surface and bottom row of tiles with
silicone bead? Is that good/bad?

Good I'd say but degrease with meths before so it will stick as good
as poss....

Fugenboy or finger to smooth off that was the question........

Jim K

On Nov 2, 2:28*pm, Ed ex@directory wrote:
OK, I got the tiles (25mm x 40mm) *with 5mm gap up on the kitchen wall
above the work surface.

Next stage is to do the grouting.

Do I need special tool for that or can I just make up grout mix and poke
it into gaps with my finger and smooth off with, say, a pencil? With
such large tiles , it doesn't seem to be need for a grout float?

Use a rubber edged grout spreader. Theyre only £1 or 2. Slop the grout
onto the tiles and run the spreader all voer to get the grout into the
gaps. Go over it repeatedly to push it in well. Wipe grout off the
surface by moving the spreader at 45 degs to the gaps, this leaves
nice concave grout.


Do I fill the horizontals first or the verticals? Or does it not make no
difference?

theres no distinguishing, just slop it over everything.


I am minded to fill internal corner joints with silicone instead of
grout. Is that the recommended way?

Also, fill the joint between work surface and bottom row of tiles with
silicone bead? Is that good/bad?

Ed

Silicone is flexible but not so hard wearing.


NT

Jim K wrote:
On 2 Nov, 14:28, Ed ex@directory wrote:
OK, I got the tiles (25mm x 40mm) with 5mm gap up on the kitchen wall
above the work surface.

eh? 250 X 400mm shurely?


Yikes, yes of course !!


Ed

On 02/11/2010 14:28, Ed wrote:
OK, I got the tiles (25mm x 40mm) with 5mm gap up on the kitchen wall
above the work surface.

Next stage is to do the grouting.

Do I need special tool for that or can I just make up grout mix and poke
it into gaps with my finger and smooth off with, say, a pencil? With
such large tiles , it doesn't seem to be need for a grout float?

You'll have sore fingers if you do. That stuff is very abrasive. Use a
paint scraper or a credit card to apply it and a finger shaped implement
of your choice to smooth it.

Do I fill the horizontals first or the verticals? Or does it not make no
difference?

No difference

I am minded to fill internal corner joints with silicone instead of
grout. Is that the recommended way?

Also, fill the joint between work surface and bottom row of tiles with
silicone bead? Is that good/bad?

Silicone if it's going to get wet, but not otherwise IMO. I don't like
it because, unless it's perfectly done, it tends to picks up grime in
every little imperfection (of which there are a few when I do it :-)).

stuart noble wrote:

snip?


Silicone if it's going to get wet, but not otherwise IMO. I don't like
it because, unless it's perfectly done, it tends to picks up grime in
every little imperfection (of which there are a few when I do it :-)).


How about putting a bead of silicone and then sprinkling it with a
dousing of grout powder from a sieve?

On 02/11/2010 15:54, Ed wrote:
stuart noble wrote:

snip?


Silicone if it's going to get wet, but not otherwise IMO. I don't like
it because, unless it's perfectly done, it tends to picks up grime in
every little imperfection (of which there are a few when I do it :-)).


How about putting a bead of silicone and then sprinkling it with a
dousing of grout powder from a sieve?

Try it! I wouldn't though

On 2 Nov, 16:38, stuart noble wrote:
On 02/11/2010 15:54, Ed wrote:

stuart noble wrote:

snip?

Silicone if it's going to get wet, but not otherwise IMO. I don't like
it because, unless it's perfectly done, it tends to picks up grime in
every little imperfection (of which there are a few when I do it :-)).

How about putting a bead of silicone and then sprinkling it with a
dousing of grout powder from a sieve?

Try it! I wouldn't though

nor me - get a fugenboy kit and go for the smoothest finish you can do
- should be fairly straightforward on a 5mm gap
google on here for loads on fugenboy s

Jim K

On 02/11/10 15:15, Tabby wrote:
On Nov 2, 2:28 pm, Edex@directory wrote:
OK, I got the tiles (25mm x 40mm) with 5mm gap up on the kitchen wall
above the work surface.

Next stage is to do the grouting.

Do I need special tool for that or can I just make up grout mix and poke
it into gaps with my finger and smooth off with, say, a pencil? With
such large tiles , it doesn't seem to be need for a grout float?

Use a rubber edged grout spreader. Theyre only £1 or 2. Slop the grout
onto the tiles and run the spreader all voer to get the grout into the
gaps. Go over it repeatedly to push it in well. Wipe grout off the
surface by moving the spreader at 45 degs to the gaps, this leaves
nice concave grout.

Yep - you can get a fairly rapid rate of fill that way. And a decent
(but not expensive) rubber "float" can take 95% of the excess off the
surface making cleanup easier (see below).


Do I fill the horizontals first or the verticals? Or does it not make no
difference?

theres no distinguishing, just slop it over everything.

That's how I did it - do a m2 at a time or so and keep an eye that it is
going well (ie no missing bits).

Then after 1-2m2 depending on your speed and the grout type (I'm basing
this off mix it yourself Mapei Keracolor) it will be firm enough, but
not too hard to sponge off.

Now take a bucket of fresh water and a nice big cuboid tiler's sponge,
wipe gently with a slightly wet but not dripping sponge *on the flat*
(ie not at an angle) and using several passes and rinses leave the tile
face clean ish (no lumps, but haze is fine). Depending how long you do
this or how wide your joints are, you can control how much you recess
the grout line.

Leave the haze - it dry polishes off later.

Note - this is for regular grout - epoxy would be a different kettle of
fish (I expect).


I am minded to fill internal corner joints with silicone instead of
grout. Is that the recommended way?

For walls that are solidly coupled (ie brick wall to brick wall), I
grouted mine - but I did add some additive to my grout that imparts
slight flexible properties (Mapei Fugolastic).

That was for a shower/bath so actually much less critical for you - use
grout as you go.

But if the walls were stud-walls (any covering) or wall to
wood/metal/plastic I would use silicone as stuff just moves more readily.

I also siliconed my wall-floor joint.

Also, fill the joint between work surface and bottom row of tiles with
silicone bead? Is that good/bad?


Silicone is good. Grout will usually crack here and it is the one place
you will have occasional standing water.

Ed

Silicone is flexible but not so hard wearing.


The trick is to engineer a decent gap (3-4mm or so wide) and clear it of
grout so you can pump in a decent bead of silicon right in to the depth
of the tiles. Applying a quadrant of silicon across the surface of the
tiles and worktop is pretty much guaranteed to fail in short order.

HTH

Tim


--
Tim Watts

On 02/11/10 16:56, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/11/10 15:15, Tabby wrote:
On Nov 2, 2:28 pm, Edex@directory wrote:
Use a rubber edged grout spreader. Theyre only £1 or 2. Slop the grout
onto the tiles and run the spreader all voer to get the grout into the
gaps. Go over it repeatedly to push it in well. Wipe grout off the
surface by moving the spreader at 45 degs to the gaps, this leaves
nice concave grout.

Yep - you can get a fairly rapid rate of fill that way. And a decent
(but not expensive) rubber "float" can take 95% of the excess off the
surface making cleanup easier (see below).


Do I fill the horizontals first or the verticals? Or does it not make no
difference?

theres no distinguishing, just slop it over everything.

That's how I did it - do a m2 at a time or so and keep an eye that it is
going well (ie no missing bits).

Then after 1-2m2 depending on your speed and the grout type (I'm basing
this off mix it yourself Mapei Keracolor) it will be firm enough, but
not too hard to sponge off.

Now take a bucket of fresh water and a nice big cuboid tiler's sponge,
wipe gently with a slightly wet but not dripping sponge *on the flat*
(ie not at an angle) and using several passes and rinses leave the tile
face clean ish (no lumps, but haze is fine). Depending how long you do
this or how wide your joints are, you can control how much you recess
the grout line.

Leave the haze - it dry polishes off later.

Note - this is for regular grout - epoxy would be a different kettle of
fish (I expect).

Epoxy is much the same: use a stiff heavy-duty grout-spreader, epoxy is
harder to spread and you probably want to work a smaller area at a time. To
clean off use a scotch-brite type scouring-pad and water in addition to the
sponge.


--
djc

On Nov 2, 4:44*pm, Jim K wrote:

nor me - get a fugenboy kit and go for the smoothest finish you can do

Grout ruins Fugenboys 8-( Scores their edges, then they no longer
slide smoothly over silicone.

On Nov 2, 2:28*pm, Ed ex@directory wrote:

Next stage is to do the grouting.

Do I need special tool

Yes. However they're simple and cheap. You need a soft bladed
squeegee, probably a specific grouting squeegee, to get something
stiffer than a window cleaner. They you need a natural rubber tiler's
sponge (both from Axminster) which works better than a cheap PU
sponge. If it's epoxy grout, take it off the tile surface when still
soft with a pack of kitchen plastic mesh NON-ABRASIVE scouring pads
(don't use 3M or Webrax abrasive ones). Also wash these in use (dunk
in a bucket and squeeze) and discard these as they fill with hard
grout, otherwise they scratch your grout surface.

The rest is easy and quite fun. Mostly work diagonally or crossways
in detail, as working along the gap tends to pull it out.

On Nov 2, 6:01 pm, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Nov 2, 4:44 pm, Jim K wrote:

nor me - get a fugenboy kit and go for the smoothest finish you can do

Grout ruins Fugenboys 8-( Scores their edges, then they no longer
slide smoothly over silicone.

mmm not noticed myself - but I'm a DIYer...

so grout after siliconing the worktop to tile boundary?
but thinking on - as the OP's are large format there won;t be *that*
many vertical grout lines to trash the fugenboy on the horizontal pass
- will there?

Jim K

On Nov 2, 4:56*pm, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/11/10 15:15, Tabby wrote:

On Nov 2, 2:28 pm, Edex@directory *wrote:

Do I fill the horizontals first or the verticals? Or does it not make no
difference?

theres no distinguishing, just slop it over everything.

That's how I did it - do a m2 at a time or so and keep an eye that it is
going well (ie no missing bits).

Then after 1-2m2 depending on your speed and the grout type (I'm basing
this off mix it yourself Mapei Keracolor) it will be firm enough, but
not too hard to sponge off.

Now take a bucket of fresh water and a nice big cuboid tiler's sponge,
wipe gently with a slightly wet but not dripping sponge *on the flat*
(ie not at an angle) and using several passes and rinses leave the tile
face clean ish (no lumps, but haze is fine). Depending how long you do
this or how wide your joints are, you can control how much you recess
the grout line.

Leave the haze - it dry polishes off later.

I've seen grouting ruined by the above, leave it much longer before
sponging.


NT

On 2 Nov, 15:15, Tabby wrote:
On Nov 2, 2:28*pm, Ed ex@directory wrote:

OK, I got the tiles (25mm x 40mm) *with 5mm gap up on the kitchen wall
above the work surface.

Next stage is to do the grouting.

Do I need special tool for that or can I just make up grout mix and poke
it into gaps with my finger and smooth off with, say, a pencil? With
such large tiles , it doesn't seem to be need for a grout float?

Use a rubber edged grout spreader. Theyre only £1 or 2. Slop the grout
onto the tiles and run the spreader all voer to get the grout into the
gaps. Go over it repeatedly to push it in well. Wipe grout off the
surface by moving the spreader at 45 degs to the gaps, this leaves
nice concave grout.

Do I fill the horizontals first or the verticals? Or does it not make no
difference?

theres no distinguishing, just slop it over everything.

What consistency should the grout be ?
In the future I will go for fairly thick (whipped cream or thicker),
not sloppy,
since it then firms up much more quickly in the gaps, ensuring that
you
don't wipe out too much when sponging, and it is spongeable before the
grout film you get sets too much on the tile surface.
Simon.

Anyone know of a good video of a professional grouting, with good
lighting and close ups so you can really see the exact technique and
consistency of the grout, how much he sponges off, how much grout left
on the file surface etc ?
Simon.

On 02/11/10 22:50, sm_jamieson wrote:

What consistency should the grout be ?

Probably a little less stiff than you want - as, at least with the
Mapei, it firms up a notch during the first 5 minutes after mixing.
seems to hold there for another 15 minutes at most (in the pot) and then
rapidly becomes unworkable (though even at 30 minutes you can still use
some for patching small missed bits.

YMMV, probably hugely with manufacturer and type. As I found zero
problems blending in (ie working new grout to grout I did yesterday -
with white grout there isn't much to go wrong) it's probbaly best just
to experiment in a less obvious location - once you've found the right
mix and style of application it speeds up...

You could start the way I did - mix using kitchen scales exactly to the
instructions - at least you know you'll be in the right ballpark, as the
manufacturer intended. It's very sensitive to ratios.

I found a wooden spoon and a stainless kitchen bowl (large one) ideal
for mixing the small quantities I needed on each batch.

In the future I will go for fairly thick (whipped cream or thicker),
not sloppy,
since it then firms up much more quickly in the gaps, ensuring that
you
don't wipe out too much when sponging, and it is spongeable before the
grout film you get sets too much on the tile surface.
Simon.

The fine surface film wasn't a problem IME - a dry polish with kitchen
roll after an hour or three sorts that out. If you are doing coloured
tiles with a bevel edge as I did, a dry kitchen roll at this stage is
just rough enough to smooth the grout off to a nice cut line finish
without damaging the bulk - a fingernail just to clean up any reticent
bits can also work.

If you leave that 24 hours, it becomes *much* harder.

Have the sealant ready too - stick that on as soon as permitted (the
spray ones at least can be applied whilst the grout is still damp after
the polishing. At least before it sees any real world abuse.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

On 02/11/10 22:53, sm_jamieson wrote:
Anyone know of a good video of a professional grouting, with good
lighting and close ups so you can really see the exact technique and
consistency of the grout, how much he sponges off, how much grout left
on the file surface etc ?
Simon.

No - but a rummage on Youtube might find some good snippets. I found a
few that weren't high quality photographically, but the bloke did seem
to know what he was doing and just watching how he applied the grout and
how fast was quite revealing.

--
Tim Watts

ensuring that
you
don't wipe out too much when sponging, and it is spongeable before the
grout film you get sets too much on the tile surface.
Simon.

With normal grout I skip the sponge stage altogether. However much you
leave on the face of the tile, it comes off easily with a coarse rag.
Just more dust, that's all

On Nov 3, 9:01 am, stuart noble wrote:
ensuring that

you
don't wipe out too much when sponging, and it is spongeable before the
grout film you get sets too much on the tile surface.
Simon.

With normal grout I skip the sponge stage altogether. However much you
leave on the face of the tile, it comes off easily with a coarse rag.
Just more dust, that's all

In a previous house I had a bugger of a job tidying someone else's
tiling and grouting efforts - they left a lot of grout slopped over
faces of tiles (in the vicinity of the grout lines) and it was a
b@stard to get off - I used a grout rake in the end - both to define
the grout into something passable and remove the excess from the tile
surfaces - I could not have done that with a coarse rag....

Jim K

On 03/11/2010 09:39, Jim K wrote:
On Nov 3, 9:01 am, stuart wrote:
ensuring that

you
don't wipe out too much when sponging, and it is spongeable before the
grout film you get sets too much on the tile surface.
Simon.

With normal grout I skip the sponge stage altogether. However much you
leave on the face of the tile, it comes off easily with a coarse rag.
Just more dust, that's all

In a previous house I had a bugger of a job tidying someone else's
tiling and grouting efforts - they left a lot of grout slopped over
faces of tiles (in the vicinity of the grout lines) and it was a
b@stard to get off - I used a grout rake in the end - both to define
the grout into something passable and remove the excess from the tile
surfaces - I could not have done that with a coarse rag....

Jim K

I've only ever left it a couple of hours, but after defining the grout
lines carefully. Maybe it gets more difficult if left for longer, but a
window scraper does a pretty good job on the faces IME.

On 2010-11-02, djc wrote:
On 02/11/10 16:56, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/11/10 15:15, Tabby wrote:
On Nov 2, 2:28 pm, Edex@directory wrote:
Use a rubber edged grout spreader. [...]
That's how I did it - do a m2 at a time or so and keep an eye that it is
going well (ie no missing bits).

Then after 1-2m2 depending on your speed and the grout type (I'm basing
this off mix it yourself Mapei Keracolor) it will be firm enough, but
not too hard to sponge off.

Now take a bucket of fresh water and a nice big cuboid tiler's sponge,
wipe gently with a slightly wet but not dripping sponge *on the flat*
(ie not at an angle) and using several passes and rinses leave the tile
face clean ish (no lumps, but haze is fine). Depending how long you do
this or how wide your joints are, you can control how much you recess
the grout line.

Leave the haze - it dry polishes off later.

Note - this is for regular grout - epoxy would be a different kettle of
fish (I expect).

Epoxy is much the same: use a stiff heavy-duty grout-spreader, epoxy is
harder to spread and you probably want to work a smaller area at a time. To
clean off use a scotch-brite type scouring-pad and water in addition to the
sponge.

But be sure to clean it off before the epoxy cures
completely. Once it's properly cured it's really hard work
to clean off. It might be easier if grout resist is applied
before grouting, but I've never tried that.

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2010-09-14)