I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in
view, shouting things like "a bit to the left, Dave" and guiding
the payloads into their final resting place. Not one of them
was wearing a H/H, though I briefly saw one lying, discarded close
to where the work was taking place.
Is this the sort of work environment that you'd normally expect to
see people wearing protection? or are there special rules for
private property or when making TV programmes?
I didn't stay with the programme very long, so I don't know if this
was an exception to the show's usual practices, but it did seem
a little lax.


--
http://thisreallyismyhost.99k.org/27...1319591197.php

On 28 Oct, 09:51, pete wrote:
I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in
view, shouting things like "a bit to the left, Dave" and guiding
the payloads into their final resting place. Not one of them
was wearing a H/H, though I briefly saw one lying, discarded close
to where the work was taking place.
Is this the sort of work environment that you'd normally expect to
see people wearing protection? or are there special rules for
private property or when making TV programmes?
I didn't stay with the programme very long, so I don't know if this
was an exception to the show's usual practices, but it did seem
a little lax.

--http://thisreallyismyhost.99k.org/272010101319591197.php

Kevin seems to be wearing hard hats on site less recently. Maybe he's
realised it is wearing the hair off his head.
In previous series he would put one on just to go to the toilet.
But I also used to notice lots of "hard hats must be worn" signs.
Simon.

On 28 Oct, 09:51, pete wrote:
I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in
view, shouting things like "a bit to the left, Dave" and guiding
the payloads into their final resting place. Not one of them
was wearing a H/H, though I briefly saw one lying, discarded close
to where the work was taking place.
Is this the sort of work environment that you'd normally expect to
see people wearing protection? or are there special rules for
private property or when making TV programmes?
I didn't stay with the programme very long, so I don't know if this
was an exception to the show's usual practices, but it did seem
a little lax.

--http://thisreallyismyhost.99k.org/272010101319591197.php

Remember the making of a tv programme may be very different to the
reality of the situation.

Quite possibly they recorded the crane operations one day, and filmed
the builders directing an imaginary crane another.

On 28 Oct, 10:16, " wrote:
On 28 Oct, 09:51, pete wrote:



I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in
view, shouting things like "a bit to the left, Dave" and guiding
the payloads into their final resting place. Not one of them
was wearing a H/H, though I briefly saw one lying, discarded close
to where the work was taking place.
Is this the sort of work environment that you'd normally expect to
see people wearing protection? or are there special rules for
private property or when making TV programmes?
I didn't stay with the programme very long, so I don't know if this
was an exception to the show's usual practices, but it did seem
a little lax.

--http://thisreallyismyhost.99k.org/272010101319591197.php

Remember the making of a tv programme may be very different to the
reality of the situation.

Quite possibly they recorded the crane operations one day, and filmed
the builders directing an imaginary crane another.

That is quite contentious since this program is supposed to be reality
(even more so than (un)reality TV).
By the way, why is TV still using "noddy" shots? Everyone is wised up
to this sort of thing now. The Xfactor is exposing things even more
with its extreme levels of fakery.
I think in general, politics, TV, people are getting annoyed about
being conned and lied to.
Simon.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 08:51:13 GMT, pete wrote:

Is this the sort of work environment that you'd normally expect to
see people wearing protection? or are there special rules for
private property or when making TV programmes?

The HSE would take a dim view. Bear in mind that most building site
employers won't allow a worker to put a foot onto the site unless
they have a hard hat, steel toe cap boots and a hi-viz jacket as a
minimum.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 28 Oct, 09:51, pete wrote:

Is this the sort of work environment that you'd normally expect to
see people wearing protection?

Single house building sites are usually (IMHE) very lax on such
issues. Estates and commercial probably more conscientuous

If you look at Kevin's hat, it often changes colour within the same
"scene". I suspect that it's not always shot in realtime.

On Oct 28, 9:51 am, pete wrote:
I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in

one would hope that simple common sense prevailed .....

what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?

Jim K

On Oct 28, 11:54*am, Jim K wrote:
what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?

Zero. Indeed I noted on a USA building program recently (SF science
museum) where they had bolt-together 10-ton girders that hard hats
were not universally worn. Not that surprising since it would afford
no viable protection. Hard hats are basically aimed at a dropped
hammer or walking into a steel beam or scaffolding pole, a bit like
tape-crossing glass on site. It is about fatigue related injuries, eg,
standing up under a beam or scaffolding pole which really will hurt.

A little worrying however is how on the USA program they lifted one of
the 10-ton roofing beams and stood directly underneath the lifting
eyes.

That is quite contentious since this program is supposed to be reality

Hmmm - I've seen bits in old series that are obviously faked up - bits
of stuff that have already been fitted, being *refitted* for the
cameras.

Jim K wrote:
On Oct 28, 9:51 am, pete wrote:
I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in

one would hope that simple common sense prevailed .....

what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?

Indeed. And what F'ing use is it to wear a hard hat when climbing up, or
standing at the top of, a telegraph pole? They introduced that many moons
ago when I was on BT and the lads still have to do it these days, but for
the life of me I can't see why.

On 28/10/2010 09:51, pete wrote:
I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in
view, shouting things like "a bit to the left, Dave" and guiding
the payloads into their final resting place. Not one of them
was wearing a H/H, though I briefly saw one lying, discarded close
to where the work was taking place.
Is this the sort of work environment that you'd normally expect to
see people wearing protection? or are there special rules for
private property or when making TV programmes?
I didn't stay with the programme very long, so I don't know if this
was an exception to the show's usual practices, but it did seem
a little lax.


Despite what some HSE Inspectors might try to claim, the regulations are
fairly flexible. Regulation 13 of the Workplace (Health Safety and
Welfare) Regulations 1992 states

(1) So far as is reasonable practical, suitable and effective means
shall be taken to prevent any event specified in paragraph (3)

(2) So far as is reasonably practical, the measures required by
paragraph (1) shall be measures other than the provision of personal
protective equipment, information, instruction, training or supervision.

(3) The events specified in this paragraph are

(a) any person falling a distance likely to cause personal injury

(b) any person being struck by a falling object likely to cause personal
injury

So, if there are reasonably practical precautions in place that are not
the provision of personal protective equipment, information,
instruction, training or supervision, then no PPE is required. In any
case, would a hard hat be a suitable and effective way to prevent
personal injury if someone were struck by an object that needed a crane
to lift?

The idea that hard hats are worn at all times no doubt arises from the
fact that on a large building site it is simpler to enforce that than to
assess every situation to decide whether PPE is appropriate, especially
as each case may change from day to day as building progresses.

In fact, in terms of safety, PPE is almost the last resort. The ideal is
to completely separate people from any danger. A fully automated factory
with no human access, except for maintenance when everything is stopped,
is an example of that. The next best choice is to guard people from
individual sources of danger, for example safety guards on a machine.
Then comes PPE and finally, information, instruction, training or
supervision.

Colin Bignell

On 28/10/2010 10:51, sm_jamieson wrote:
On 28 Oct, 10:16, wrote:
snip
By the way, why is TV still using "noddy" shots? Everyone is wised up
to this sort of thing now.

So they can shoot an interview in close up with one camera.

On 28 Oct, 13:34, nicknoxx wrote:
On 28/10/2010 10:51, sm_jamieson wrote:

On 28 Oct, 10:16, *wrote:
snip
By the way, why is TV still using "noddy" shots? Everyone is wised up
to this sort of thing now.

So they can shoot an interview in close up with one camera.

Yes I know, but I mean why are they using them when they look so
stupid ? They invariably show the jaw of the talking person, and it
obviously not moving in sync with the words.
Simon.

"Jim K" wrote in message
...
On Oct 28, 9:51 am, pete wrote:
I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in

one would hope that simple common sense prevailed .....

what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?


Perhaps the nuts and bolts that secure the steel work might hurt a bit if
they bounced of your bonce.

mark

On 28 Oct, 11:54, Jim K wrote:
On Oct 28, 9:51 am, pete wrote:

I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in

one would hope that simple common sense prevailed .....

what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?

So because a hat won't protect you in every possible accident scenario
there's no point in wearing one at all?
You'll be made very welcome in u.r.c.m.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 08:51:13 GMT, pete
wrote:


I didn't stay with the programme very long, so I don't know if this
was an exception to the show's usual practices,

Any 'usual practices' that you might usually see will not be those of
the show but those of the contractor running the site. It this case
the designer was the contractor.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 28 Oct, 09:51, pete wrote:

Is this the sort of work environment that you'd normally expect to
see people wearing protection?

Single house building sites are usually (IMHE) very lax on such
issues. Estates and commercial probably more conscientuous

That's my experience of things.
I have never seen a builder or any one else wear a hardhat on a single house
building site.

Typical rules on an estate would be that if you are second fixing then the
hat and hi viz can be removed when you are in a property but must be worn at
all times when outside the propery. Some safety officers take things too
far - there is often a no eating of drinking rule apart from in the canteen
area. The ones with the common sense allow drinks to be consumed wherever
you want when the sun is blazing and the mercury is touching 30 deg. The
ones that cannot be flexible are usually the ones that have to deal with
problems later as no-one bothers to report things to them.

--
Adam

"pcb1962" wrote in message
...
On 28 Oct, 11:54, Jim K wrote:
On Oct 28, 9:51 am, pete wrote:

I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in

one would hope that simple common sense prevailed .....

what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?

So because a hat won't protect you in every possible accident scenario
there's no point in wearing one at all?
You'll be made very welcome in u.r.c.m.




I think that many accidents have minor causes - eg. bumped my head -
flinched to protect myself and fell.

I recall hitting my head on the bonnet catch of my car when I thought I had
received a HT shock from my car engine - it was just a bit of sharp wire.
Protective instincts can be quite dangerous.

On Oct 28, 11:54*am, Jim K wrote:
On Oct 28, 9:51 am, pete wrote:

I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in

one would hope that simple common sense prevailed .....

what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?

Jim K

It wont stop you from being killed, but it cut down on the paper work.

On Oct 28, 3:14 pm, pcb1962 wrote:

So because a hat won't protect you in every possible accident scenario
there's no point in wearing one at all?
You'll be made very welcome in u.r.c.m.

er... who said that?
stunning (if misguided) presumptuousness on your part....

Jim K

On Oct 28, 3:14 pm, Huge wrote:
On 2010-10-28, mark wrote:





"Jim K" wrote in message
...
On Oct 28, 9:51 am, pete wrote:
I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in

one would hope that simple common sense prevailed .....

what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?

Perhaps the nuts and bolts that secure the steel work might hurt a bit if
they bounced of your bonce.

That was my thought.

he said it first ;)

Jim K

In message
, Jim
K writes
On Oct 28, 9:51 am, pete wrote:
I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in

one would hope that simple common sense prevailed .....

what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?

No use if it drops and lands on you no, but it may offer useful
protection from e.g. a glancing blow from a steel girder etc. as it is
manoeuvred.
--
Chris French

On Oct 28, 4:59 pm, chris French
wrote:
In message
, Jim
K writesOn Oct 28, 9:51 am, pete wrote:
I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in

one would hope that simple common sense prevailed .....

what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?

No use if it drops and lands on you no, but it may offer useful
protection from e.g. a glancing blow from a steel girder etc. as it is
manoeuvred.

I doubt it very much - a 1.5 inch diameter falling dead branch cracked
my BS safety helmet not long back in a "glancing blow" incident - it
hurt like F (from the webbing contact points) for a week or so - I
suspect a girder would be rather too much ....

Jim K

"insertmysurnamehere wrote on 28/10/2010 :
In fact, in terms of safety, PPE is almost the last resort. The ideal is to
completely separate people from any danger. A fully automated factory with no
human access, except for maintenance when everything is stopped, is an
example of that. The next best choice is to guard people from individual
sources of danger, for example safety guards on a machine. Then comes PPE and
finally, information, instruction, training or supervision.

The best PPE, is to use your head and your eyes to avoid and minimise
risks.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 28/10/2010 22:00, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
"insertmysurnamehere wrote on 28/10/2010 :
In fact, in terms of safety, PPE is almost the last resort. The ideal
is to completely separate people from any danger. A fully automated
factory with no human access, except for maintenance when everything
is stopped, is an example of that. The next best choice is to guard
people from individual sources of danger, for example safety guards on
a machine. Then comes PPE and finally, information, instruction,
training or supervision.

The best PPE, is to use your head and your eyes to avoid and minimise
risks.


There is a saying, which usually applies, that safety is a state of mind.

Colin Bignell

On Oct 29, 12:08 am, "js.b1" wrote:
On Oct 28, 11:54 am, Jim K wrote:

what Fing use is a plastic hat when there is a crane needed to lift a
steel structure that could squash you like a fly with or without a hat
on?

Zero. Indeed I noted on a USA building program recently (SF science
museum) where they had bolt-together 10-ton girders that hard hats
were not universally worn. Not that surprising since it would afford
no viable protection. Hard hats are basically aimed at a dropped
hammer or walking into a steel beam or scaffolding pole, a bit like
tape-crossing glass on site.

When we went abseiling, we were supposed to wear helmets. Sure
sometimes rocks would dislodge, but most places e.g. wooden abseling
towers, the only thing that could possibly fall was a safety helmet.
So as often the case the safety equipment causes more problems than it
solves.

On 28 Oct, 11:08, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

The HSE would take a dim view. Bear in mind that most building site
employers won't allow a worker to put a foot onto the site unless
they have a hard hat, steel toe cap boots and a hi-viz jacket as a
minimum.

I used to work in an office park, with a new build going up alongside
us. Big name builder, big signs for "No hat, no boots, no service". We
watched in surprise as the scaffolding was swarmed over by a bunch of
barefoot Sri Lankans. This went on for a few weeks and no-one seemed
bothered by it.

(Our Sri Lankans used to go and have lunch with their Sri Lankans)

On 2010-10-28 09:51:13 +0100, pete said:

I was flicking across the channels last night (Wed, 27 Oct) and
started watching a part of GD. The scene in question involved
craning in a steel lift shaft and a circular staircase, to a part-
finished building. There were about half a dozen builders in
view, shouting things like "a bit to the left, Dave" and guiding
the payloads into their final resting place. Not one of them
was wearing a H/H, though I briefly saw one lying, discarded close
to where the work was taking place.
Is this the sort of work environment that you'd normally expect to
see people wearing protection? or are there special rules for
private property or when making TV programmes?
I didn't stay with the programme very long, so I don't know if this
was an exception to the show's usual practices, but it did seem
a little lax.

I was watching one of the recent series the other night and noticed
that the first scene in the old barn they didn't bother wearing hats or
vests, but for the next scene, when work had started, they did.