Hi all,

There is a fairly low bath in my bathroom with 12inches of tiling
around the rim.

My landlord has had fitted an electric shower fitted at one end of the bath,
but has not put any tiling at the shower end around the shower down to the
bath.



The walls are matt emulsion painted plasterboard.

Is the plasterboard around the shower going to be ok with getting wet?

Mick.

"Mick." wrote in message
...
Hi all,

There is a fairly low bath in my bathroom with 12inches of tiling
around the rim.

My landlord has had fitted an electric shower fitted at one end of the
bath, but has not put any tiling at the shower end around the shower down
to the bath.



The walls are matt emulsion painted plasterboard.

Is the plasterboard around the shower going to be ok with getting wet?

Mick.


No! If you value your deposit get him to tile the area.

Tom

In article ,
"Tom" writes:
"Mick." wrote in message
...
Hi all,

There is a fairly low bath in my bathroom with 12inches of tiling
around the rim.

My landlord has had fitted an electric shower fitted at one end of the
bath, but has not put any tiling at the shower end around the shower down
to the bath.

The walls are matt emulsion painted plasterboard.

Any shower curtain or screen to protect the rest of the room?

Is the plasterboard around the shower going to be ok with getting wet?

Mick.


No! If you value your deposit get him to tile the area.

and _exactly who_ fitted the shower?
Demand to see the electrical test certificate before
you go anywhere near it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

Any shower curtain or screen to protect the rest of the room?
I put a shower curtin up afterwards as I could see the floor would soon be
very wet.

and _exactly who_ fitted the shower?
Demand to see the electrical test certificate before
you go anywhere near it.
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

I do know it was a proper electrician who put it up, but no idea about who
did the pluming bit.
Mick

Mick. wrote:
Hi all,

There is a fairly low bath in my bathroom with 12inches of tiling
around the rim.

My landlord has had fitted an electric shower fitted at one end of the bath,
but has not put any tiling at the shower end around the shower down to the
bath.



The walls are matt emulsion painted plasterboard.

Is the plasterboard around the shower going to be ok with getting wet?

No.

Tile it.

Mick.

On Oct 13, 7:01*am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Mick. wrote:
Hi all,

* * * There is a fairly low bath in my bathroom with 12inches of tiling
around the rim.

My landlord has had fitted an electric shower fitted at one end of the bath,
but has not put any tiling at the shower end around the shower down to the
bath.

The walls are matt emulsion painted plasterboard.

Is the plasterboard around the shower going to be ok with getting wet?

No.

Tile it.

Mick.

I once went through the wall of a shower that had tiles on
plasterboard, the grout needed redoing. I'd tile on something more
substantial.

misterroy wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:01 am, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Mick. wrote:
Hi all,
There is a fairly low bath in my bathroom with 12inches of tiling
around the rim.
My landlord has had fitted an electric shower fitted at one end of the bath,
but has not put any tiling at the shower end around the shower down to the
bath.
The walls are matt emulsion painted plasterboard.
Is the plasterboard around the shower going to be ok with getting wet?
No.

Tile it.

Mick.

I once went through the wall of a shower that had tiles on
plasterboard, the grout needed redoing. I'd tile on something more
substantial.

I wouldn't.

The tiles will not be soaked..water will run down rather than puddle.

Only problem with tiling happen when water pools.

Then it will soak into grout.

Hi all,

Perhaps it would be best to give the background to this problem.

This is a Housing Association flat.

Because of Osteoarthritis in my knees and hands, I asked if my bath could be
changed to a walk in shower

The Housing Association referred me to an occupational assessment unit to
seek funding.



A kitchen and bathroom upgrade was planned for all the flats in the complex.

When this started the builders told me I was not having a bathroom upgrade,
they were fitting an over bath electric shower instead.

Which is what has happened, a shower only.



The Housing Association has not sent anyone to final check the whole kitchen
and bathroom upgrade which was done by different teams.



This is why I wanted to ask if a builder would fit a shower without any
tiling.



When we were told the general upgrades were planned I offered to pay the
cost of the shower if it could be installed at the time of the upgrade
hoping they would then build a walk in unit.



We are not allowed to do work ourselves we have to get permission to get a
qualified approved builder to carry out the work, but I wonder what the
Housing Association would say if I had had the shower installed without
tiling?

Would they then hold me responsible when the plasterboard walls are damaged?

Mick.

"

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 21:52:11 +0100, Mick. wrote:

Is the plasterboard around the shower going to be ok with getting wet?

In a word no assuming it is plasterboard not one of the similar
waterproof boards that are available. Even those boards really ought
to be tiled and grouted with a waterproof grout, keeping paint clean
and mould out of it I think would be nigh on impossible.

I don't see how this work carried out by the landlord can affect your
deposit if/when damage to the structure of the building is cause by
you simply using what he has (badly) provided. It may give him wiggle
room though so best to get sorted out now, keep copies of letters
that show your concern that the job has not been done properly etc.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Oct 12, 9:52*pm, "Mick." wrote:
Hi all,

* * * There is a fairly low bath in my bathroom with 12inches of tiling
around the rim.

My landlord has had fitted an electric shower fitted at one end of the bath,
but has not put any tiling at the shower end around the shower down to the
bath.

The walls are matt emulsion painted plasterboard.

Is the plasterboard around the shower going to be ok with getting wet?

Mick.

No, no way. I wouldnt tile it either, I'd get rid of the plasterboard,
use something that'll survive then tile that.


NT

On Oct 13, 11:17*am, Tabby wrote:
On Oct 12, 9:52*pm, "Mick." wrote:

Hi all,

* * * There is a fairly low bath in my bathroom with 12inches of tiling
around the rim.

My landlord has had fitted an electric shower fitted at one end of the bath,
but has not put any tiling at the shower end around the shower down to the
bath.

The walls are matt emulsion painted plasterboard.

Is the plasterboard around the shower going to be ok with getting wet?

Mick.

No, no way. I wouldnt tile it either, I'd get rid of the plasterboard,
use something that'll survive then tile that.


or they could tank the plasterboard and then tile on top.

Robert

On 13 Oct, 11:17, Tabby wrote:

No, no way. I wouldnt tile it either, I'd get rid of the plasterboard,
use something that'll survive then tile that.

now this is something I don;t get (yet?)

big NOs to tiling plasterboard, presumably cos *if* your grouting/
silicone fails water may permeate through to the pboard and it will
begin to crumble/rot/fail etc..

general shouts of "use something else" - ply, aquapanel, wedi, tile
backer etc cos they're not affected by water - being made of cement
and/or other moisture proof substances....

yebbut assuming there will be a leak, to realise the benefit of the
latter *new* style boards,

1) how do you know there is/has been a leak
2) where does that water go and what effect does it have once it is
behind the grout/silicone and saturating the substructure - unbeknown
to the occupant....

at least with poard (in the worst case scenario of a leak) you find
out sooner rather than later that you have a problemo?

Jim K

On 13 Oct, 09:39, "Mick." wrote:
Hi all,

* * * Perhaps it would be best to give the background to this problem.

This is a Housing Association flat.

Because of Osteoarthritis in my knees and hands, I asked if my bath could be
changed to a walk in shower

The Housing Association referred me to an occupational assessment unit to
seek funding.

A kitchen and bathroom upgrade was planned for all the flats in the complex.

When this started the builders told me I was not having a bathroom upgrade,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I didn't realise builders were experts in disability assessment!

At best, it sounds like a breakdown in communication.

At worst, it sounds like someone is taking the ****.

Speak to the Housing Asociation, the Citizen's Advice Bureau, your
local MP, or anyone else who can raise hell on your behalf.

--
Halmyre

On 13 Oct, 11:37, Jim K wrote:
On 13 Oct, 11:17, Tabby wrote:

No, no way. I wouldnt tile it either, I'd get rid of the plasterboard,
use something that'll survive then tile that.

now this is something I don;t get (yet?)

big NOs to tiling plasterboard, presumably cos *if* your grouting/
silicone fails water may permeate through to the pboard and it will
begin to crumble/rot/fail etc..

general shouts of "use something else" - ply, aquapanel, wedi, tile
backer etc cos they're not affected by water - being made of cement
and/or other moisture proof substances....

yebbut assuming there will be a leak, to realise the benefit of the
latter *new* style boards,

1) how do you know there is/has been a leak
2) where does that water go and what effect does it have once it is
behind the grout/silicone and saturating the substructure - unbeknown
to the occupant....

at least with poard (in the worst case scenario of a leak) you find

ahem "Pboard" ;)

out sooner rather than later that you have a problemo?

Jim K

"Mick." wrote in message
...
Hi all,

There is a fairly low bath in my bathroom with 12inches of tiling
around the rim.

My landlord has had fitted an electric shower fitted at one end of the
bath, but has not put any tiling at the shower end around the shower down
to the bath.



The walls are matt emulsion painted plasterboard.

Is the plasterboard around the shower going to be ok with getting wet?

For perhaps 2-3 days til it all starts to turn to papier-mache, otherwise
NO.

Tim..

On 13/10/10 11:37, Jim K wrote:
On 13 Oct, 11:17, wrote:

No, no way. I wouldnt tile it either, I'd get rid of the plasterboard,
use something that'll survive then tile that.

now this is something I don;t get (yet?)

big NOs to tiling plasterboard, presumably cos *if* your grouting/
silicone fails water may permeate through to the pboard and it will
begin to crumble/rot/fail etc..

Indeed. However, there is plenty of PB that is tiled in shower areas -
you just have to make sure it is glued and grouted bloody well, and keep
and eye on it - especially the lower areas.

If it does leak for any length of time, it swells and bows and generall
falls to bits - been there, done that in a rented house.

general shouts of "use something else" - ply, aquapanel, wedi, tile
backer etc cos they're not affected by water - being made of cement
and/or other moisture proof substances....

yebbut assuming there will be a leak, to realise the benefit of the
latter *new* style boards,

If you have the choice, the waterproof materials are better. Marmox is
one specific brand - works like PB, but is cement/fibreglass faces
plastic foam. Light and totally waterproof.

1) how do you know there is/has been a leak
2) where does that water go and what effect does it have once it is
behind the grout/silicone and saturating the substructure - unbeknown
to the occupant....

Unless you can see the back, it usually only becomes apparent when the
tiles start lifting.

at least with poard (in the worst case scenario of a leak) you find
out sooner rather than later that you have a problemo?

Jim K


--
Tim Watts

On 13 Oct, 12:31, Tim Watts wrote:
yebbut assuming there will be a leak, to realise the benefit of the
latter *new* style boards,

If you have the choice, the waterproof materials are better. Marmox is
one specific brand - works like PB, but is cement/fibreglass faces
plastic foam. Light and totally waterproof.

1) how do you know there is/has been a leak
2) where does that water go and what effect does it have once it is
behind the grout/silicone and saturating the substructure - unbeknown
to the occupant....

Unless you can see the back,

erm...have you ever seen the back of a piece of tiled backer board
displayed ? ;)

it usually only becomes apparent when the
tiles start lifting.

exactly, if things have got so bad that even the tiles on the backer
board are coming off (due to adhesive failure? *not* board failure) is
it not likely that the water from the leak has *already* found it's
way down below the backer board into more conventional (and possibly
absorbent) building materials? - wood, brick, plaster/pboard and
potentially causing hidden problems there?

Seems to me you;d *want* to know there is a leak, not help conceal it
until something poss. worse eventually happens? particularly on the
premise that you are doing a "better job" by using backer boards
etc.....

is backer board's only real advantage that they don;t fall apart when
they get damp - so they don;t need replacing *when* they get wet?
(assuming you realise they are getting damp before something worse
happens elsewhere)....

Jim K

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:25:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I once went through the wall of a shower that had tiles on
plasterboard, the grout needed redoing. I'd tile on something more
substantial.

I wouldn't.

The tiles will not be soaked..water will run down rather than puddle.

Only problem with tiling happen when water pools.

I wouldn't take the risk, TBH - it's about $18 here (11 quid or so?) for
a 4x8' 1/4" sheet of cement board, so I'd at least put that up (or just
go with thicker board if not attaching to existing plasterboard behind).

cheers

Jules

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies.
It is shown from your replies that the plasterboard should be at least
tiled, but how do I get that over to the Housing Ass?
I have written to one of the many heads of departments twice with no reply!
Mick.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 04:52:37 -0700, Jim K wrote:
Seems to me you;d *want* to know there is a leak, not help conceal it
until something poss. worse eventually happens? particularly on the
premise that you are doing a "better job" by using backer boards
etc.....

is backer board's only real advantage that they don;t fall apart when
they get damp - so they don;t need replacing *when* they get wet?
(assuming you realise they are getting damp before something worse
happens elsewhere)....

I think that if the grout fails it's really not going to be much of an
issue - by the time water's worked its way down the backs of the tile to
somewhere where it can do real damage, tiles are going to be falling off
and it'll be obvious that there's a problem anyway.

From memory, seams between backerboard panels should be filled and then
taped, with appropritate numbers of fixings so that there's no flex, so I
think it's extremely unlikely that water would ever get behind the
backerboard via the joints.

I'd estimate the chances of a problem being somewhat less than the
chances of a plumbing leak causing damage, and even then that's only if
the tile grout fails (which I don't think it should with modern grouts,
assuming that the sub-wall's designed to be strong and rigid enough)

cheers

Jules

Mick. wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks for the replies.
It is shown from your replies that the plasterboard should be at least
tiled, but how do I get that over to the Housing Ass?
I have written to one of the many heads of departments twice with no reply!
Mick.


contact building control?

Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 04:52:37 -0700, Jim K wrote:
Seems to me you;d *want* to know there is a leak, not help conceal it
until something poss. worse eventually happens? particularly on the
premise that you are doing a "better job" by using backer boards
etc.....

is backer board's only real advantage that they don;t fall apart when
they get damp - so they don;t need replacing *when* they get wet?
(assuming you realise they are getting damp before something worse
happens elsewhere)....

I think that if the grout fails it's really not going to be much of an
issue - by the time water's worked its way down the backs of the tile to
somewhere where it can do real damage, tiles are going to be falling off
and it'll be obvious that there's a problem anyway.

From memory, seams between backerboard panels should be filled and then
taped, with appropritate numbers of fixings so that there's no flex, so I
think it's extremely unlikely that water would ever get behind the
backerboard via the joints.

I'd estimate the chances of a problem being somewhat less than the
chances of a plumbing leak causing damage, and even then that's only if
the tile grout fails (which I don't think it should with modern grouts,
assuming that the sub-wall's designed to be strong and rigid enough)


Despite the myth on here that plasterboard cant be tiled on direct, its
very common and gives no problems. Provided the water doesn't pool.

People who tell horror stories never say that in fact water had pooled
somewhere becase the job was not done properly, in which case its better
the plasterbaord goes before the studwork rots.


I would only use waterproof board if I was NOT tiling it.

cheers

Jules

On 13 Oct, 15:36, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Mick. wrote:
Hi all,
* * * *Thanks for the replies.
It is shown from your replies that the plasterboard should be at least
tiled, but how do I get that over to the Housing Ass?
I have written to one of the many heads of departments twice with no reply!
Mick.

contact building control?

This I suspect is one of those cases where the Housing Assoc has taken
the lowest bid and doesn't have the skills to vet it properly.

Mick, you will seen as a stirrer and likely to get thrown out until
they discover all these bathrooms with collapsing PB !

I like the suggestion of going to local authority Building Control as
they should support what has been said here and rapidly descend on HA.

Rob

"robgraham" wrote in message
...
On 13 Oct, 15:36, The Natural Philosopher
contact building control?

This I suspect is one of those cases where the Housing Assoc has taken
the lowest bid and doesn't have the skills to vet it properly.

Mick, you will seen as a stirrer and likely to get thrown out until
they discover all these bathrooms with collapsing PB !

I like the suggestion of going to local authority Building Control as
they should support what has been said here and rapidly descend on HA.

Rob

Hi Rob,
Thanks for the suggestion.
I will go and see the Building Control and have a word, before I start
anything.
Yes I can see that some jobsworth who knows nothing about bathrooms could
decide I am just string truble.
Thanks,
Mick.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:40:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 04:52:37 -0700, Jim K wrote:
Seems to me you;d *want* to know there is a leak, not help conceal it
until something poss. worse eventually happens? particularly on the
premise that you are doing a "better job" by using backer boards
etc.....

is backer board's only real advantage that they don;t fall apart when
they get damp - so they don;t need replacing *when* they get wet?
(assuming you realise they are getting damp before something worse
happens elsewhere)....

I think that if the grout fails it's really not going to be much of an
issue - by the time water's worked its way down the backs of the tile
to somewhere where it can do real damage, tiles are going to be falling
off and it'll be obvious that there's a problem anyway.

From memory, seams between backerboard panels should be filled and then
taped, with appropritate numbers of fixings so that there's no flex, so
I think it's extremely unlikely that water would ever get behind the
backerboard via the joints.

I'd estimate the chances of a problem being somewhat less than the
chances of a plumbing leak causing damage, and even then that's only if
the tile grout fails (which I don't think it should with modern grouts,
assuming that the sub-wall's designed to be strong and rigid enough)


Despite the myth on here that plasterboard cant be tiled on direct, its
very common and gives no problems. Provided the water doesn't pool.

I don't know, I need to replace some in our bathroom because the room's
never had an extractor fan and the humidity over the years has caused the
PB toward the tops of the walls above the shower to deteriorate. That's a
project on the to-do list, along with fitting an extractor and tiling
around the bath (it's all ****ty plastic panels right now, urgh)

"pooling" can also include "water getting into cracks in the paint/grout
and rarely having the chance to evaporate", I suppose - so maybe you're
right, but I don't think it needs something obviously sitting in a puddle
for it to be near-constantly wet.

cheers

Jules

Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:40:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 04:52:37 -0700, Jim K wrote:
Seems to me you;d *want* to know there is a leak, not help conceal it
until something poss. worse eventually happens? particularly on the
premise that you are doing a "better job" by using backer boards
etc.....

is backer board's only real advantage that they don;t fall apart when
they get damp - so they don;t need replacing *when* they get wet?
(assuming you realise they are getting damp before something worse
happens elsewhere)....
I think that if the grout fails it's really not going to be much of an
issue - by the time water's worked its way down the backs of the tile
to somewhere where it can do real damage, tiles are going to be falling
off and it'll be obvious that there's a problem anyway.

From memory, seams between backerboard panels should be filled and then
taped, with appropritate numbers of fixings so that there's no flex, so
I think it's extremely unlikely that water would ever get behind the
backerboard via the joints.

I'd estimate the chances of a problem being somewhat less than the
chances of a plumbing leak causing damage, and even then that's only if
the tile grout fails (which I don't think it should with modern grouts,
assuming that the sub-wall's designed to be strong and rigid enough)


Despite the myth on here that plasterboard cant be tiled on direct, its
very common and gives no problems. Provided the water doesn't pool.

I don't know, I need to replace some in our bathroom because the room's
never had an extractor fan and the humidity over the years has caused the
PB toward the tops of the walls above the shower to deteriorate. That's a
project on the to-do list, along with fitting an extractor and tiling
around the bath (it's all ****ty plastic panels right now, urgh)

"pooling" can also include "water getting into cracks in the paint/grout
and rarely having the chance to evaporate", I suppose - so maybe you're
right, but I don't think it needs something obviously sitting in a puddle
for it to be near-constantly wet.


condensation IS a puddle :-)


cheers

Jules

On 13 Oct, 23:10, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I don't know, I need to replace some in our bathroom because the room's
never had an extractor fan and the humidity over the years has caused the
PB toward the tops of the walls above the shower to deteriorate. That's a
project on the to-do list, along with fitting an extractor and tiling
around the bath (it's all ****ty plastic panels right now, urgh)

"pooling" can also include "water getting into cracks in the paint/grout
and rarely having the chance to evaporate", I suppose - so maybe you're
right, but I don't think it needs something obviously sitting in a puddle
for it to be near-constantly wet.

condensation IS a puddle :-)


.....and "puddles" classically occur on vertical surfaces - obvious
really...

Jim K