On 8 Aug, 12:17, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 7 Aug, 19:23, Peter Scott wrote:
On 07/08/2010 16:21, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
"Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

However, the World Health Organistion estimates that the final toll from
Chernobyl may be about 4,000 early deaths

I estimate that the toll from fatuous posts made to usenet may be about
100,000 deaths. Obviously you're now a prime candidate for early demise.

My claim has about as much value as that made by (some unknown numpty)
at the WHO.

The WHO estimate is based upon the number of people who suffered from
thyroid cancer as a direct result of exposure to radiation. While all
but nine recovered, the probability is that the majority will have a
reduced life expectancy. However, the real point was that, even
including the highest number of deaths that anyone can come up with,
nuclear power still comes out as by far the safest form of energy.

Colin Bignell

In the latest New Scientist there's an article about the effect of
radiation on health. Well worth reading. In summary single large doses
are invariably bad for you. Slightly smaller doses spaced out to allow
the cells to recover (as in radio-therapy) need not be bad. Lower level
up to about 1000 times current 'safe levels' seem to do little or no
harm. Our cells have evolved with an ability to recover from background
and cosmic radiation. Once the initial high levels of radiation fell
away in Nagasaki the population actually turned out to have only
slightly higher levels of illness than similar cities elsewhere in Japan.

Peter Scott- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is complete ********. *Radiation exposure is cumulative.

Radiation expert now, are we?

The NS
is a political magazine representing entrenched interests in the USA.
(Mainly medical)
No level of radiation exposure is safe.

Better build yourself a lead coffin and seal yourself inside it then

Every time you expose yourself to uk.d-i-y, you reinforce the impression
that you are a total ****wit

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are clearly the ****wit.
http://www.marts100.com/radiation.htm#Q11

On 8 Aug, 12:44, "Mark Spice" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...
On 8 Aug, 10:15, Tim Streater wrote:





In article
,

harry wrote:
That is complete ********. Radiation exposure is cumulative. The NS
is a political magazine representing entrenched interests in the USA.
(Mainly medical)
No level of radiation exposure is safe.

Better get your lead underwear on, then. You're exposed to radiation all
the time. Hmmm. cosmic-ray levels are quite high at 30k ft, so all
flying is out, better not go anywhere where there's granite (lots of
radium) or near any coal fired power station (1 part per million of
uranium in coal, lots of Radon emitted).

No place to hide, really, for you :-)

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

-Quite right. *Why do you suppose there has always been people died of
-cancer?
-The more you get, the greater chance of getting cancer.

May I suggest that chemical mutagens in the environment - for example
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and heterocyclic amines which are produced
when cooking meat (or fish) - may have some small input. *Historically
people have tended to die of infectious disease before cancers have had a
chance to get going. *Personally I would rather take a chance of cancer at
70+ than TB at 35.

You say above "No level of radiation exposure is safe." *If it would not be
too taxing I wonder if you could enlighten us all with the definition of
'safe' that you would like to use. *I suspect that you are going to be
missing out on all of the acoutriments of modern (and most historic ones
too) life if you wish to insist on perfect safety - certainly you won't want
to use any form of transport or medicine.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's best to avoid unnecessary dangers. Why do you suppose asbestos is
being removed from the environment? It's because it's an unnessary
hazard.
In the case of medicines all have adverse as well as good effects.
It's a case of balance.
I fly fairly regularly but I don't use a skateboard.

In message
,
harry writes
On 8 Aug, 12:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 7 Aug, 20:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 6 Aug, 12:18, Owain wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:18 pm, Peter Scott *wrote:
You (well, one) can buy a black box type reactor. Comes sealed, on a
lorry, effectively with a couple of sockets to allow you take the power
out. Wish I could give a reference but remember it being announced two
or three years back on a reputable medium, probably radio 4, or
possibly
New Scientist. When its 20 year life is up the supplier takes it away,
still sealed.
Problems may occur when counterfeit ones start arriving from China.
Lucky Golden Hedgehog Nucurear Power Plant Make All Glow With
Happiness.
Owain
There is no such device. Nor will there be.
There are, more or less, such devices. You or I cannot by one though.

It's pretty much what goes in a nuclear sub.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Afraid not. *The nuclear sub has the sea for cooling pirposes. Not
available to any "portable device".

Are you really as stupid as you seem, or its it just an act?- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am a technocrat. Not a feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle.

So, what do you actually do, what qualifications do you have ?

--
geoff

In message
,
harry writes
On 8 Aug, 12:17, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 7 Aug, 19:23, Peter Scott wrote:
On 07/08/2010 16:21, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
"Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

However, the World Health Organistion estimates that the final
toll from
Chernobyl may be about 4,000 early deaths

I estimate that the toll from fatuous posts made to usenet may be about
100,000 deaths. Obviously you're now a prime candidate for
early demise.

My claim has about as much value as that made by (some unknown numpty)
at the WHO.

The WHO estimate is based upon the number of people who suffered from
thyroid cancer as a direct result of exposure to radiation. While all
but nine recovered, the probability is that the majority will have a
reduced life expectancy. However, the real point was that, even
including the highest number of deaths that anyone can come up with,
nuclear power still comes out as by far the safest form of energy.

Colin Bignell

In the latest New Scientist there's an article about the effect of
radiation on health. Well worth reading. In summary single large doses
are invariably bad for you. Slightly smaller doses spaced out to allow
the cells to recover (as in radio-therapy) need not be bad. Lower level
up to about 1000 times current 'safe levels' seem to do little or no
harm. Our cells have evolved with an ability to recover from background
and cosmic radiation. Once the initial high levels of radiation fell
away in Nagasaki the population actually turned out to have only
slightly higher levels of illness than similar cities elsewhere in Japan.

Peter Scott- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is complete ********. *Radiation exposure is cumulative.

Radiation expert now, are we?

The NS
is a political magazine representing entrenched interests in the USA.
(Mainly medical)
No level of radiation exposure is safe.

Better build yourself a lead coffin and seal yourself inside it then

Every time you expose yourself to uk.d-i-y, you reinforce the impression
that you are a total ****wit

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are clearly the ****wit.
http://www.marts100.com/radiation.htm#Q11

One single resource which you keep on regurgitating

as I asked before, what are your actual qualifications ?





--
geoff

In message
,
harry writes
On 8 Aug, 12:12, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 7 Aug, 14:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:
On Aug 7, 4:54 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:

What it needs is for a few members of endangered or protected
bird species
to get ****ted by the things.

We've got lots of endangered birds in NZ, like the Kiwi, Weka and Moa.
I think they are all quite safe from those nasty wind turbines

come Fall... - or crash and burn, as these fans do at times.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

I would interested to know where I can see a Moa.
You are what's known over here as a complete ******.

I'm starting to wonder if harry and dennis aren't one and the same

Harry - in a 40 mph zone, how fast do you drive ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am not Dennis, whoever he may be.
I drive at whatever speed seems safe to me under 40mph.
i have passed my advanced driving test.
I have no wish to become a voluntary taxpayer.
i have never had a speeding or parking ticket

You ARE dennis

AICMFP



--
geoff

On 8 Aug, 12:59, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 8 Aug, 12:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 7 Aug, 20:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 6 Aug, 12:18, Owain wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:18 pm, Peter Scott *wrote:
You (well, one) can buy a black box type reactor. Comes sealed, on a
lorry, effectively with a couple of sockets to allow you take the power
out. Wish I could give a reference but remember it being announced two
or three years back on a reputable medium, probably radio 4, or
possibly
New Scientist. When its 20 year life is up the supplier takes it away,
still sealed.
Problems may occur when counterfeit ones start arriving from China.
Lucky Golden Hedgehog Nucurear Power Plant Make All Glow With
Happiness.
Owain
There is no such device. Nor will there be.
There are, more or less, such devices. You or I cannot by one though.

It's pretty much what goes in a nuclear sub.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Afraid not. *The nuclear sub has the sea for cooling pirposes. Not
available to any "portable device".

Are you really as stupid as you seem, or its it just an act?- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am a technocrat. Not a feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle.

So, what do you actually do, what qualifications do you have ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am now retired . The last job I had was energy efficiency engineer
in the NHS. Previously I was in charge of operations and maintenence
at various large hospitals. I had to deal with radiocactive materials
there. I have HNC in electrical machines, power and control sytems
also in applied heat and mechanic.
i came up from the tools.

On 8 Aug, 13:06, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 8 Aug, 12:12, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes

On 7 Aug, 14:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:
On Aug 7, 4:54 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:

What it needs is for a few members of endangered or protected
bird species
to get ****ted by the things.

We've got lots of endangered birds in NZ, like the Kiwi, Weka and Moa.
I think they are all quite safe from those nasty wind turbines

come Fall... - or crash and burn, as these fans do at times.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

I would interested to know where I can see a Moa.
You are what's known over here as a complete ******.

I'm starting to wonder if harry and dennis aren't one and the same

Harry - in a 40 mph zone, how fast do you drive ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am not Dennis, whoever he may be.
I drive at whatever speed seems safe to me under 40mph.
i have passed my advanced driving test.
I have no wish to become a voluntary taxpayer.
i have never had a speeding or parking ticket

You ARE dennis

AICMFP

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

'Fraid not. If i sound like him, he must be knowledgeable, sensible
and can't abide uneducated fools.

On 8 Aug, 13:05, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 8 Aug, 12:17, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes

On 7 Aug, 19:23, Peter Scott wrote:
On 07/08/2010 16:21, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
"Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

However, the World Health Organistion estimates that the final
toll from
Chernobyl may be about 4,000 early deaths

I estimate that the toll from fatuous posts made to usenet may be about
100,000 deaths. Obviously you're now a prime candidate for
early demise.

My claim has about as much value as that made by (some unknown numpty)
at the WHO.

The WHO estimate is based upon the number of people who suffered from
thyroid cancer as a direct result of exposure to radiation. While all
but nine recovered, the probability is that the majority will have a
reduced life expectancy. However, the real point was that, even
including the highest number of deaths that anyone can come up with,
nuclear power still comes out as by far the safest form of energy..

Colin Bignell

In the latest New Scientist there's an article about the effect of
radiation on health. Well worth reading. In summary single large doses
are invariably bad for you. Slightly smaller doses spaced out to allow
the cells to recover (as in radio-therapy) need not be bad. Lower level
up to about 1000 times current 'safe levels' seem to do little or no
harm. Our cells have evolved with an ability to recover from background
and cosmic radiation. Once the initial high levels of radiation fell
away in Nagasaki the population actually turned out to have only
slightly higher levels of illness than similar cities elsewhere in Japan.

Peter Scott- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is complete ********. *Radiation exposure is cumulative.

Radiation expert now, are we?

The NS
is a political magazine representing entrenched interests in the USA.
(Mainly medical)
No level of radiation exposure is safe.

Better build yourself a lead coffin and seal yourself inside it then

Every time you expose yourself to uk.d-i-y, you reinforce the impression
that you are a total ****wit

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are clearly the ****wit.
http://www.marts100.com/radiation.htm#Q11

One single resource which you keep on regurgitating

as I asked before, what are your actual qualifications ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's easy to find stuff on Wiki. The stuff I regurgitate I know to be
true. I am awaew there is crap on Wikipedia. However much of it is
pretty good I find. If I do find any crap, I amend it.

harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 13:06, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 8 Aug, 12:12, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes

On 7 Aug, 14:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:
On Aug 7, 4:54 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:

What it needs is for a few members of endangered or protected
bird species
to get ****ted by the things.

We've got lots of endangered birds in NZ, like the Kiwi, Weka
and Moa. I think they are all quite safe from those nasty wind
turbines

come Fall... - or crash and burn, as these fans do at times.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

I would interested to know where I can see a Moa.
You are what's known over here as a complete ******.

I'm starting to wonder if harry and dennis aren't one and the same

Harry - in a 40 mph zone, how fast do you drive ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am not Dennis, whoever he may be.
I drive at whatever speed seems safe to me under 40mph.
i have passed my advanced driving test.
I have no wish to become a voluntary taxpayer.
i have never had a speeding or parking ticket

You ARE dennis

AICMFP

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

'Fraid not. If i sound like him, he must be knowledgeable, sensible
and can't abide uneducated fools.

That's not Dennis.
--
Adam

harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 12:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 7 Aug, 19:23, Peter Scott wrote:
On 07/08/2010 16:21, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
"Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:
However, the World Health Organistion estimates that the final toll from
Chernobyl may be about 4,000 early deaths
I estimate that the toll from fatuous posts made to usenet may be about
100,000 deaths. Obviously you're now a prime candidate for early demise.
My claim has about as much value as that made by (some unknown numpty)
at the WHO.
The WHO estimate is based upon the number of people who suffered from
thyroid cancer as a direct result of exposure to radiation. While all
but nine recovered, the probability is that the majority will have a
reduced life expectancy. However, the real point was that, even
including the highest number of deaths that anyone can come up with,
nuclear power still comes out as by far the safest form of energy.
Colin Bignell
In the latest New Scientist there's an article about the effect of
radiation on health. Well worth reading. In summary single large doses
are invariably bad for you. Slightly smaller doses spaced out to allow
the cells to recover (as in radio-therapy) need not be bad. Lower level
up to about 1000 times current 'safe levels' seem to do little or no
harm. Our cells have evolved with an ability to recover from background
and cosmic radiation. Once the initial high levels of radiation fell
away in Nagasaki the population actually turned out to have only
slightly higher levels of illness than similar cities elsewhere in Japan.
Peter Scott- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
That is complete ********. Radiation exposure is cumulative. The NS
is a political magazine representing entrenched interests in the USA.
Er No.

The NS has been consistently anti nuclear and greenie as long as I gave
uop reading it.

That was why I was surprised to see the article there.

Of course its written by someone else, who happens to be a professor of
nuclear something.

(Mainly medical)
No level of radiation exposure is safe.
Well then life is not safe, because there is a ****load of radiation all
around you naturally.

Its been a long time since we have had a Naive Believer on the group!
Welcome!

Do you think the Jews made the Holocaust up as well?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

http://www.marts100.com/radiation.htm#Q11
There you go. Shouting off your big mouth again on topics you have no
understanding of.

On the contrary, that link does not support the statements you make. but
then, you don't know any science. So you must think it does.

LNT is the current way that *safety standards are established*. That
doesn't make it true, and indeed only second rate scientists with axes
to grind have ever claimed that it was. Its a *worst case assumption*,
and as such, is highly suitable for safety standards. . The whole point
of the NS article was to point out that LNT is not supported by the
actual evidence.

harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 12:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 7 Aug, 20:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 6 Aug, 12:18, Owain wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:18 pm, Peter Scott wrote:
You (well, one) can buy a black box type reactor. Comes sealed, on a
lorry, effectively with a couple of sockets to allow you take the power
out. Wish I could give a reference but remember it being announced two
or three years back on a reputable medium, probably radio 4, or possibly
New Scientist. When its 20 year life is up the supplier takes it away,
still sealed.
Problems may occur when counterfeit ones start arriving from China.
Lucky Golden Hedgehog Nucurear Power Plant Make All Glow With
Happiness.
Owain
There is no such device. Nor will there be.
There are, more or less, such devices. You or I cannot by one though.
It's pretty much what goes in a nuclear sub.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Afraid not. The nuclear sub has the sea for cooling pirposes. Not
available to any "portable device".
Are you really as stupid as you seem, or its it just an act?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am a technocrat. Not a feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle.
You are no technocrat. Or god help whoever you are in charge of if you are.

You sound to me like a 15 years smartass.

harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 12:59, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 8 Aug, 12:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 7 Aug, 20:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 6 Aug, 12:18, Owain wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:18 pm, Peter Scott wrote:
You (well, one) can buy a black box type reactor. Comes sealed, on a
lorry, effectively with a couple of sockets to allow you take the power
out. Wish I could give a reference but remember it being announced two
or three years back on a reputable medium, probably radio 4, or
possibly
New Scientist. When its 20 year life is up the supplier takes it away,
still sealed.
Problems may occur when counterfeit ones start arriving from China.
Lucky Golden Hedgehog Nucurear Power Plant Make All Glow With
Happiness.
Owain
There is no such device. Nor will there be.
There are, more or less, such devices. You or I cannot by one though.
It's pretty much what goes in a nuclear sub.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Afraid not. The nuclear sub has the sea for cooling pirposes. Not
available to any "portable device".
Are you really as stupid as you seem, or its it just an act?- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I am a technocrat. Not a feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle.
So, what do you actually do, what qualifications do you have ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am now retired . The last job I had was energy efficiency engineer
in the NHS.

Public sector arsehole then. Learsn akll te rules and thinks he knows
someothing.

Previously I was in charge of operations and maintenence
at various large hospitals. I had to deal with radiocactive materials
there. I have HNC in electrical machines, power and control sytems
also in applied heat and mechanic.
i came up from the tools.

Indeed, never a truer word spoken.

Nevber mind I'll toss a cambridge honours degree in the bin then,.
Obviously pointless against your experience of being a complete tool.

harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 12:12, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 7 Aug, 14:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:
On Aug 7, 4:54 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
What it needs is for a few members of endangered or protected bird species
to get ****ted by the things.
We've got lots of endangered birds in NZ, like the Kiwi, Weka and Moa.
I think they are all quite safe from those nasty wind turbines
come Fall... - or crash and burn, as these fans do at times.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
I would interested to know where I can see a Moa.
You are what's known over here as a complete ******.
I'm starting to wonder if harry and dennis aren't one and the same

Harry - in a 40 mph zone, how fast do you drive ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am not Dennis, whoever he may be.
I drive at whatever speed seems safe to me under 40mph.
i have passed my advanced driving test.
I have no wish to become a voluntary taxpayer.
i have never had a speeding or parking ticket

Have you been alive at all?

Its Dennis, it has to be.

In message
,
harry writes
On 8 Aug, 12:59, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 8 Aug, 12:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 7 Aug, 20:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 6 Aug, 12:18, Owain wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:18 pm, Peter Scott *wrote:
You (well, one) can buy a black box type reactor. Comes sealed, on a
lorry, effectively with a couple of sockets to allow you
take the power
out. Wish I could give a reference but remember it being
announced two
or three years back on a reputable medium, probably radio 4, or
possibly
New Scientist. When its 20 year life is up the supplier
takes it away,
still sealed.
Problems may occur when counterfeit ones start arriving from China.
Lucky Golden Hedgehog Nucurear Power Plant Make All Glow With
Happiness.
Owain
There is no such device. Nor will there be.
There are, more or less, such devices. You or I cannot by one though.

It's pretty much what goes in a nuclear sub.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Afraid not. *The nuclear sub has the sea for cooling pirposes. Not
available to any "portable device".

Are you really as stupid as you seem, or its it just an act?- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am a technocrat. Not a feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle.

So, what do you actually do, what qualifications do you have ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am now retired . The last job I had was energy efficiency engineer
in the NHS. Previously I was in charge of operations and maintenence
at various large hospitals. I had to deal with radiocactive materials
there. I have HNC in electrical machines, power and control sytems
also in applied heat and mechanic.
i came up from the tools.


Sound more like a "feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle" than a technocrat to me

Energy efficiency engineer - is that the bloke who stokes the boiler ?

HNC in electrical machines - wossat then ?

Sounds like you were and always will be a tool


--
geoff

In message
,
harry writes
On 8 Aug, 13:06, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 8 Aug, 12:12, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes

On 7 Aug, 14:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:
On Aug 7, 4:54 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:

What it needs is for a few members of endangered or protected
bird species
to get ****ted by the things.

We've got lots of endangered birds in NZ, like the Kiwi, Weka

I think they are all quite safe from those nasty wind turbines

come Fall... - or crash and burn, as these fans do at times.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

I would interested to know where I can see a Moa.
You are what's known over here as a complete ******.

I'm starting to wonder if harry and dennis aren't one and the same

Harry - in a 40 mph zone, how fast do you drive ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am not Dennis, whoever he may be.
I drive at whatever speed seems safe to me under 40mph.
i have passed my advanced driving test.
I have no wish to become a voluntary taxpayer.
i have never had a speeding or parking ticket

You ARE dennis

AICMFP

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

'Fraid not. If i sound like him, he must be knowledgeable, sensible
and can't abide uneducated fools.

But you seem to be the least educated (in the conventional sense) of
those participating in this discussion


--
geoff

geoff wrote:


Sound more like a "feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle" than a technocrat to me

Energy efficiency engineer - is that the bloke who stokes the boiler ?

Its teh amn whose salary is always 10% more than teh money he saceves
telling people to switch the lights off.

HNC in electrical machines - wossat then ?


Not a lot. City and Guilds. Tradesmans ticket. A little theory and a lot
of learning how to wire stuff up, and a deep knowledge of Rules and
Regulations. But no actual understanding of why they are there.

All right for a sparky, not nearly enough to be in a planning position.

Only in the public sector...




Sounds like you were and always will be a tool


Agreed.

Over promoted and gone to his head.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On 8 Aug, 12:44, "Mark Spice" wrote:
"harry" wrote in message

...
On 8 Aug, 10:15, Tim Streater wrote:





In article
,

harry wrote:
That is complete ********. Radiation exposure is cumulative. The NS
is a political magazine representing entrenched interests in the USA.
(Mainly medical)
No level of radiation exposure is safe.

Better get your lead underwear on, then. You're exposed to radiation
all
the time. Hmmm. cosmic-ray levels are quite high at 30k ft, so all
flying is out, better not go anywhere where there's granite (lots of
radium) or near any coal fired power station (1 part per million of
uranium in coal, lots of Radon emitted).

No place to hide, really, for you :-)

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

-Quite right. Why do you suppose there has always been people died of
-cancer?
-The more you get, the greater chance of getting cancer.

May I suggest that chemical mutagens in the environment - for example
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and heterocyclic amines which are
produced
when cooking meat (or fish) - may have some small input. Historically
people have tended to die of infectious disease before cancers have had a
chance to get going. Personally I would rather take a chance of cancer
at
70+ than TB at 35.

You say above "No level of radiation exposure is safe." If it would not
be
too taxing I wonder if you could enlighten us all with the definition of
'safe' that you would like to use. I suspect that you are going to be
missing out on all of the acoutriments of modern (and most historic ones
too) life if you wish to insist on perfect safety - certainly you won't
want
to use any form of transport or medicine.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ----
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's best to avoid unnecessary dangers. Why do you suppose asbestos is
being removed from the environment? It's because it's an unnessary
hazard.
In the case of medicines all have adverse as well as good effects.
It's a case of balance.
I fly fairly regularly but I don't use a skateboard.

Very wise. Most don't have wings, and it's hard to get them up to enough
speed to fly. No, you stick with using an aeroplane for flying - makes much
more sense ... :-)

Arfa

"harry" wrote in message
...
On 8 Aug, 13:05, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 8 Aug, 12:17, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes

On 7 Aug, 19:23, Peter Scott wrote:
On 07/08/2010 16:21, Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
"Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote:

However, the World Health Organistion estimates that the final
toll from
Chernobyl may be about 4,000 early deaths

I estimate that the toll from fatuous posts made to usenet may
be about
100,000 deaths. Obviously you're now a prime candidate for
early demise.

My claim has about as much value as that made by (some unknown
numpty)
at the WHO.

The WHO estimate is based upon the number of people who suffered
from
thyroid cancer as a direct result of exposure to radiation. While
all
but nine recovered, the probability is that the majority will
have a
reduced life expectancy. However, the real point was that, even
including the highest number of deaths that anyone can come up
with,
nuclear power still comes out as by far the safest form of
energy.

Colin Bignell

In the latest New Scientist there's an article about the effect of
radiation on health. Well worth reading. In summary single large
doses
are invariably bad for you. Slightly smaller doses spaced out to
allow
the cells to recover (as in radio-therapy) need not be bad. Lower
level
up to about 1000 times current 'safe levels' seem to do little or
no
harm. Our cells have evolved with an ability to recover from
background
and cosmic radiation. Once the initial high levels of radiation
fell
away in Nagasaki the population actually turned out to have only
slightly higher levels of illness than similar cities elsewhere in
Japan.

Peter Scott- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is complete ********. Radiation exposure is cumulative.

Radiation expert now, are we?

The NS
is a political magazine representing entrenched interests in the USA.
(Mainly medical)
No level of radiation exposure is safe.

Better build yourself a lead coffin and seal yourself inside it then

Every time you expose yourself to uk.d-i-y, you reinforce the
impression
that you are a total ****wit

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are clearly the ****wit.
http://www.marts100.com/radiation.htm#Q11

One single resource which you keep on regurgitating

as I asked before, what are your actual qualifications ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's easy to find stuff on Wiki. The stuff I regurgitate I know to be
true. I am awaew there is crap on Wikipedia. However much of it is
pretty good I find. If I do find any crap, I amend it.

Which is part of the problem with Wiki articles that are freely amendable
....

Arfa

"harry" wrote in message
...
On 8 Aug, 12:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 7 Aug, 20:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 6 Aug, 12:18, Owain wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:18 pm, Peter Scott wrote:
You (well, one) can buy a black box type reactor. Comes sealed, on
a
lorry, effectively with a couple of sockets to allow you take the
power
out. Wish I could give a reference but remember it being announced
two
or three years back on a reputable medium, probably radio 4, or
possibly
New Scientist. When its 20 year life is up the supplier takes it
away,
still sealed.
Problems may occur when counterfeit ones start arriving from China.
Lucky Golden Hedgehog Nucurear Power Plant Make All Glow With
Happiness.
Owain
There is no such device. Nor will there be.
There are, more or less, such devices. You or I cannot by one though.

It's pretty much what goes in a nuclear sub.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Afraid not. The nuclear sub has the sea for cooling pirposes. Not
available to any "portable device".

Are you really as stupid as you seem, or its it just an act?- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

I am a technocrat.

Bwah ha ha ha ha !

Arfa


Not a feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 12:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 7 Aug, 20:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
harry wrote:
On 6 Aug, 12:18, Owain wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:18 pm, Peter Scott wrote:
You (well, one) can buy a black box type reactor. Comes sealed, on
a
lorry, effectively with a couple of sockets to allow you take the
power
out. Wish I could give a reference but remember it being announced
two
or three years back on a reputable medium, probably radio 4, or
possibly
New Scientist. When its 20 year life is up the supplier takes it
away,
still sealed.
Problems may occur when counterfeit ones start arriving from China.
Lucky Golden Hedgehog Nucurear Power Plant Make All Glow With
Happiness.
Owain
There is no such device. Nor will there be.
There are, more or less, such devices. You or I cannot by one though.
It's pretty much what goes in a nuclear sub.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Afraid not. The nuclear sub has the sea for cooling pirposes. Not
available to any "portable device".
Are you really as stupid as you seem, or its it just an act?- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am a technocrat. Not a feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle.
You are no technocrat. Or god help whoever you are in charge of if you
are.

You sound to me like a 15 years smartass.

A "technological expert" eh ? Hmmm

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/technocrat

Arfa

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember harry saying
something like:

Problems may occur when counterfeit ones start arriving from China.

Lucky Golden Hedgehog Nucurear Power Plant Make All Glow With
Happiness.

Owain

There is no such device.

********.

Nor will there be.

********.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Champ
saying something like:

Remember Aberfan.

Dig up your own talent.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember harry saying
something like:

I am not Dennis, whoever he may be.

There can be only one.

I drive at whatever speed seems safe to me under 40mph.

Figures.

i have passed my advanced driving test.

Figures.

I have no wish to become a voluntary taxpayer.

I think you missed an 'in'.

i have never had a speeding or parking ticket

Figures.

Dennis sco 7.5 7.6 8.4 2.8 9.0
Romanian judge, he know nothing.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember harry saying
something like:


Only in the movies to petrol tankers normally go up like napalm.

Tell that to those poor ****ers in Africa a few weeks back.

Which ones are they?

The Congolese ones who got fried by a tanker leaking and exploding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssk0rw85ZaQ

harry wrote:
On 6 Aug, 12:18, Owain wrote:
On Aug 5, 5:18 pm, Peter Scott wrote:

You (well, one) can buy a black box type reactor. Comes sealed, on a
lorry, effectively with a couple of sockets to allow you take the power
out. Wish I could give a reference but remember it being announced two
or three years back on a reputable medium, probably radio 4, or possibly
New Scientist. When its 20 year life is up the supplier takes it away,
still sealed.
Problems may occur when counterfeit ones start arriving from China.

Lucky Golden Hedgehog Nucurear Power Plant Make All Glow With
Happiness.

Owain

There is no such device. Nor will there be.

Toshiba have been working on micro reactors for some years and Hyperion
make a sealed for life 25MW nuclear power unit that is delivered and, at
the end of its 40 year life, removed by lorry, although it is designed
to be buried while in use.

Colin Bignell

On 8 Aug, 14:47, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,

*harry wrote:
I am not Dennis, whoever he may be.
I drive at whatever speed seems safe to me under 40mph.
i have passed my advanced driving test.
I have no wish to become a voluntary taxpayer.
i have never had a speeding or parking ticket

What do you mean by "voluntary taxpayer"?

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" *-- *Bill of Rights 1689

A voluntary taxpayer is a person who donates money voluntarily to the
gov.
Like lottery tickets, speeding fines and parking tickets.
Most of the donors, for some baffling reason, seem to be people least
able to afford it.

On 8 Aug, 14:46, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,

*harry wrote:
You are clearly the ****wit.
http://www.marts100.com/radiation.htm#Q11

You will note, bozo, that it is the Linear No Threshold *hypothesis*. A
hypothesis is a possible explanation for some phenomenon. When there's
solid, repeatable, evidence to support a hypothesis, it can become a
theory. Only theories are worth paying attention to.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" *-- *Bill of Rights 1689

Just on step back. Gravity was a hypothesis at one point. As was a
globular earth.
Why do you suppose X-ray machine operators wear a lead apron?

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember harry saying
something like:

The NS
is a political magazine representing entrenched interests in the USA.

Christ, it's not been bought by Murdoch/Kellogg/DuPont/GOP, has it?

I suspect you're spouting ********.

On 8 Aug, 14:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
geoff wrote:

Sound more like a "feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle" than a technocrat to me

Energy efficiency engineer - is that the bloke who stokes the boiler ?

Its teh amn whose salary is always 10% more than teh money he saceves
telling people to switch the lights off.

HNC in electrical machines - wossat then ?

Not a lot. City and Guilds. Tradesmans ticket. A little theory and a lot
of learning how to wire stuff up, and a deep knowledge *of Rules and
Regulations. But no actual understanding of why they are there.

All right for a sparky, not nearly enough to be in a planning position.

Only in the public sector...

Sounds like you were and always will be a tool

Agreed.

Over promoted and gone to his head.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just slightly less than a degree. With the advantage of knowing
practical application of the theory.

On 8 Aug, 14:57, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,





*harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 10:15, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,

*harry wrote:
That is complete ********. *Radiation exposure is cumulative. *The NS
is a political magazine representing entrenched interests in the USA.
(Mainly medical)
No level of radiation exposure is safe.

Better get your lead underwear on, then. You're exposed to radiation all
the time. Hmmm. cosmic-ray levels are quite high at 30k ft, so all
flying is out, better not go anywhere where there's granite (lots of
radium) or near any coal fired power station (1 part per million of
uranium in coal, lots of Radon emitted).

No place to hide, really, for you :-)
Quite right. *Why do you suppose there has always been people died of
cancer?
The more you get, the greater chance of getting cancer.

The greatest cause of cancer is the oxygen you breathe.It is carefully
transported around the body and delivered to your cells where combustion
takes place, and energy is produced. Some of the by product of this is
oxygen radicals that are *highly* reactive chemically and attack your
DNA. This causes damage. Fortunately all cells have repair mechanisms
that fix this damage up, continually. Above a certain level of damage,
however, these mechanisms can't cope. And for reasons I won't go into,
this gets worse as you get older.

Radiation splits up water molecules and produces the same sort of oxygen
radicals, which is why the damage is similar. Below a certain radiation
level, the body copes. Above it, it can't. That's why Linear no
Threshold is cobblers.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" *-- *Bill of Rights 1689- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another hypothesis here says the exact opposite.
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/co...5/8/1617.short

Another one here casts doubt on the whole idea.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...n/antioxidants

In message
,
harry writes
On 8 Aug, 14:46, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,

*harry wrote:
You are clearly the ****wit.
http://www.marts100.com/radiation.htm#Q11

You will note, bozo, that it is the Linear No Threshold *hypothesis*. A
hypothesis is a possible explanation for some phenomenon. When there's
solid, repeatable, evidence to support a hypothesis, it can become a
theory. Only theories are worth paying attention to.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" *-- *Bill of Rights 1689

Just on step back. Gravity was a hypothesis at one point. As was a
globular earth.
Why do you suppose X-ray machine operators wear a lead apron?

Just because one hypothesis evolves into a theory doesn't mean that all
hypotheses do

which seems to be what you are implying

stick to wiring up machines, you don't seem to be very good at this
science lark


--
geoff

In message
,
harry writes
On 8 Aug, 14:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
geoff wrote:

Sound more like a "feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle" than a technocrat to me

Energy efficiency engineer - is that the bloke who stokes the boiler ?

Its teh amn whose salary is always 10% more than teh money he saceves
telling people to switch the lights off.

HNC in electrical machines - wossat then ?

Not a lot. City and Guilds. Tradesmans ticket. A little theory and a lot
of learning how to wire stuff up, and a deep knowledge *of Rules and
Regulations. But no actual understanding of why they are there.

All right for a sparky, not nearly enough to be in a planning position.

Only in the public sector...

Sounds like you were and always will be a tool

Agreed.

Over promoted and gone to his head.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just slightly less than a degree. With the advantage of knowing
practical application of the theory.

Slightly less ?

You really are a clueless ****wit


--
geoff

In message
,
harry writes
On 8 Aug, 14:47, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,

*harry wrote:
I am not Dennis, whoever he may be.
I drive at whatever speed seems safe to me under 40mph.
i have passed my advanced driving test.
I have no wish to become a voluntary taxpayer.
i have never had a speeding or parking ticket

What do you mean by "voluntary taxpayer"?

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" *-- *Bill of Rights 1689

A voluntary taxpayer is a person who donates money voluntarily to the
gov.
Like lottery tickets, speeding fines and parking tickets.
Most of the donors, for some baffling reason, seem to be people least
able to afford it.


Speeding fines?

How exactly are they voluntary ?

Don't say that you invited it because you were driving too fast

And how do you equate it with those can't afford it

Your logic is somewhat off planet

Laydeez 'n gentilmenn I think we have finally found the only person who
dennis has sworn at for holding him up


--
geoff

Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:

You are clearly the ****wit.
http://www.marts100.com/radiation.htm#Q11

You will note, bozo, that it is the Linear No Threshold *hypothesis*. A
hypothesis is a possible explanation for some phenomenon. When there's
solid, repeatable, evidence to support a hypothesis, it can become a
theory. Only theories are worth paying attention to.

Not quite correct, SCIENTIFIC theories are refutable hypotheses.

When they fail to be refuted often enough, they become what third rate
people call 'scientific fact'. However there are no scientific facts,
only more or less refuted hypotheses, In this case LNT is well on the
way to being refuted.

harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 14:46, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,

harry wrote:
You are clearly the ****wit.
http://www.marts100.com/radiation.htm#Q11
You will note, bozo, that it is the Linear No Threshold *hypothesis*. A
hypothesis is a possible explanation for some phenomenon. When there's
solid, repeatable, evidence to support a hypothesis, it can become a
theory. Only theories are worth paying attention to.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

Just on step back. Gravity was a hypothesis at one point. As was a
globular earth.

Both still are.

Why do you suppose X-ray machine operators wear a lead apron?

Cos they can't **** straight?

harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 14:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
geoff wrote:

Sound more like a "feeble minded old retard masquerading as an
oracle" than a technocrat to me
Energy efficiency engineer - is that the bloke who stokes the boiler ?
Its teh amn whose salary is always 10% more than teh money he saceves
telling people to switch the lights off.

HNC in electrical machines - wossat then ?
Not a lot. City and Guilds. Tradesmans ticket. A little theory and a lot
of learning how to wire stuff up, and a deep knowledge of Rules and
Regulations. But no actual understanding of why they are there.

All right for a sparky, not nearly enough to be in a planning position.

Only in the public sector...

Sounds like you were and always will be a tool
Agreed.

Over promoted and gone to his head.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just slightly less than a degree. With the advantage of knowing
practical application of the theory.

No, a hell of a lot less than a degree IF you took it when you imply you
did.


Nowadays 'degrees' are as common as used toilet paper.

All jolly good for self esteem, but no substitute for actually
understanding what science really is.

In message
,
harry writes
On 8 Aug, 14:57, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,





*harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 10:15, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,

*harry wrote:
That is complete ********. *Radiation exposure is cumulative. *The NS
is a political magazine representing entrenched interests in the USA.
(Mainly medical)
No level of radiation exposure is safe.

Better get your lead underwear on, then. You're exposed to radiation all
the time. Hmmm. cosmic-ray levels are quite high at 30k ft, so all
flying is out, better not go anywhere where there's granite (lots of
radium) or near any coal fired power station (1 part per million of
uranium in coal, lots of Radon emitted).

No place to hide, really, for you :-)
Quite right. *Why do you suppose there has always been people died of
cancer?
The more you get, the greater chance of getting cancer.

The greatest cause of cancer is the oxygen you breathe.It is carefully
transported around the body and delivered to your cells where combustion
takes place, and energy is produced. Some of the by product of this is
oxygen radicals that are *highly* reactive chemically and attack your
DNA. This causes damage. Fortunately all cells have repair mechanisms
that fix this damage up, continually. Above a certain level of damage,
however, these mechanisms can't cope. And for reasons I won't go into,
this gets worse as you get older.

Radiation splits up water molecules and produces the same sort of oxygen
radicals, which is why the damage is similar. Below a certain radiation
level, the body copes. Above it, it can't. That's why Linear no
Threshold is cobblers.

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" *-- *Bill of Rights
1689- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another hypothesis here says the exact opposite.
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/co...5/8/1617.short

Another one here casts doubt on the whole idea.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...n/antioxidants

So there you have it

plenty of viable hypotheses, no definitive theory yet by your own
admission

and you seem to be ignoring what is becoming increasingly apparent -
that there are numerous causes of the various cancers that exist.

E.g. Prostate cancer which seems to be genetic in when it happens, but
that it will eventually happen is almost certain. Wanking also has shown
to postpone the onset of prostate cancer - should keep you safe

What about the innoculation program for young girls to reduce the risk
of uterine cancer, which is considered to be caused by a virus

melanomas - UV radiation, not really the same as the radioactivity you
were referring to, is it?


Etc etc


--
geoff

harry wrote:
On 8 Aug, 14:47, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,

harry wrote:
I am not Dennis, whoever he may be.
I drive at whatever speed seems safe to me under 40mph.
i have passed my advanced driving test.
I have no wish to become a voluntary taxpayer.
i have never had a speeding or parking ticket

What do you mean by "voluntary taxpayer"?

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of
Rights 1689

A voluntary taxpayer is a person who donates money voluntarily to the
gov.
Like lottery tickets, speeding fines and parking tickets.
Most of the donors, for some baffling reason, seem to be people least
able to afford it.

Thats me then. I smoke (lots of tax), I drink (lots of tax), I drive (lots
of tax) and I gamble (very little tax).


--
Adam

In message
,
harry writes
On 8 Aug, 12:12, geoff wrote:
In message
,
harry writes





On 7 Aug, 14:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:48:22 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:
On Aug 7, 4:54 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:

What it needs is for a few members of endangered or protected
bird species
to get ****ted by the things.

We've got lots of endangered birds in NZ, like the Kiwi, Weka and Moa.
I think they are all quite safe from those nasty wind turbines

come Fall... - or crash and burn, as these fans do at times.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

I would interested to know where I can see a Moa.
You are what's known over here as a complete ******.

I'm starting to wonder if harry and dennis aren't one and the same

Harry - in a 40 mph zone, how fast do you drive ?

--
geoff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am not Dennis, whoever he may be.
I drive at whatever speed seems safe to me under 40mph.
i have passed my advanced driving test.

When my mother passed her IAM test, I realised that there was very
little point.

I have no wish to become a voluntary taxpayer.

Yet you drive, you worked (FSVO) and you buy goods.

i have never had a speeding or parking ticket

--
geoff

Got a link for that?

Cant find it on the new scientist site.




New Scientist dated 31 July 2010 P24 'Who's afraid of radiation?'

Haven't looked on the web site.

Peter Scott