Hi All,

I think I mentioned a while back about metal primers and I've got a
bit nearer the project again and wondered if anything had changed in
the meantime.

By that I mean I have a can of red oxide in the workshop and was
considering using it on the two (new but slightly weathered) steel
gate posts I'm about to plant [1] but I think it was suggested there
are 'better' solutions out there now (better than red oxide I mean).

However, this seems good vfm:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13032/...rimer-1Ltr-Red
http://tinyurl.com/38dn6lx

And if it's been used on a narrow boat?

Similar he

http://preview.tinyurl.com/32zrt4n

Both a lot cheaper than Hammerite but do you get what you pay for?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/36sqqhx

or less for mo

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3axfy2b

What about this (in less quantity):

http://preview.tinyurl.com/376yks9

or:

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/t/TORZPP/

etc etc.

I don't mind spending a few quid on summmat that really /is/ better
(and I don't have to come back to for a few years).

Cheers, T i m


[1] A mate gave me an old - large can of something that smelled like
Hammerite but was full of bits. I sealed one end of each post, poured
half the can in each, sealed the other end and moved them about a bit
before draining the surplus off, hoping it would give the insides a
good coating.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

I think I mentioned a while back about metal primers and I've got a
bit nearer the project again and wondered if anything had changed in
the meantime.

By that I mean I have a can of red oxide in the workshop and was
considering using it on the two (new but slightly weathered) steel
gate posts I'm about to plant [1] but I think it was suggested there
are 'better' solutions out there now (better than red oxide I mean).

However, this seems good vfm:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13032/...rimer-1Ltr-Red
http://tinyurl.com/38dn6lx


I would not buy any Screwfix home brand products ... find quality too poor.

If you have a can of Red Lead Oxide primer, and it's still usable ... I
would have no hesitation to use it on steel or iron.

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 11:32:46 +0100, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
Hi All,

I think I mentioned a while back about metal primers and I've got a
bit nearer the project again and wondered if anything had changed in
the meantime.

By that I mean I have a can of red oxide in the workshop and was
considering using it on the two (new but slightly weathered) steel
gate posts I'm about to plant [1] but I think it was suggested there
are 'better' solutions out there now (better than red oxide I mean).

However, this seems good vfm:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13032/...rimer-1Ltr-Red
http://tinyurl.com/38dn6lx


I would not buy any Screwfix home brand products ... find quality too poor.

Noted, thanks.

If you have a can of Red Lead Oxide primer, and it's still usable ...

I do and I'll check (not been touched in a while but kept in the dry
and off the floor etc). I can do a test paint on something and see how
well it dries and how tough it is when it does.

I
would have no hesitation to use it on steel or iron.

Thanks again.

I was asking because I know these things /can/ move on and didn't want
to waste my time and risk decent protection for the sake of a can of
something good.

Cheers, T i m

T i m gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

However, this seems good vfm:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13032/...onsense-Oxide-
Primer-1Ltr-Red

It's very, very soft, even when it's left to dry for several months.

Both a lot cheaper than Hammerite but do you get what you pay for?

I find it difficult to believe anything could be worse value than
Hammer****e.

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 12:21:30 GMT, Cicero
wrote:


Hammerite has a tendency to 'pinhole' even when carefully applied

Yeah. When I made the steel tri-fold doors on the garage I noticed I
was starting to run out on the 3rd door hence it got a more
'brushed-out' coat. Some years later the first two doors look pretty
well as they were done but the 3rd is showing a general coating of
rust.

whereas
red oxide produces a good solid flat finish.

I've just tested the red oxide I had on an old galv fuel store I was
given for daughters (Tree Surgeon) b/f and it went on a bit like
treacle. It could well have done with some thinning but I'm sure it
still looks better even with the odd run and a few 'bits'. ;-)

Red oxide takes a cover of
Bitumastic paint very well, making a very damp-impervious finish.

This particular red oxide has a gloss finish and feels like it will
tolerate a light sand once hard ready for a top coat of something
prettier. ;-)

If you want to treat the inside of your posts you could use 'Waxoyl'
although it will drain down after about 20 years.

Already done with this old (possibly industrial / military) bulk green
stuff and it seems to be stuck / covered pretty well. However I am
considering some Waxoil for the sills on a couple of the cars as I
repair them (via a Shutz gun probably).

A litre of paint at £5-00p or less is very good value, so you can't go
far wrong with those on offer.

I suppose I look for good functionality at the right price and am
aware how much markup and branding some of the basic stuff can get
(doubling it's price and making it no 'better' of course). The trick
is finding / buying the good stuff in the white label can. ;-) [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] We have been trying much of the Sainsburys white label stuff and
in the main found it perfectly satisfactory. Ok, their 'sweet pickle'
doesn't taste exactly the same as Branston but then we don't care as
long as we like the taste whatever it is. Similar with corn flakes,
tea bags or pretty well anything else we are happy with in it's
de-frilled format (especially at often a quarter of the price). ;-)

p.s. Our local branch recently removed all 'Basics' cereals,
apparently at the frustration of many of their customers (inc us).

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

I think I mentioned a while back about metal primers and I've got a
bit nearer the project again and wondered if anything had changed in
the meantime.

By that I mean I have a can of red oxide in the workshop and was
considering using it on the two (new but slightly weathered) steel
gate posts I'm about to plant [1] but I think it was suggested there
are 'better' solutions out there now (better than red oxide I mean).

However, this seems good vfm:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13032/...rimer-1Ltr-Red
http://tinyurl.com/38dn6lx

And if it's been used on a narrow boat?

Similar he

http://preview.tinyurl.com/32zrt4n

Both a lot cheaper than Hammerite but do you get what you pay for?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/36sqqhx

or less for mo

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3axfy2b

What about this (in less quantity):

http://preview.tinyurl.com/376yks9

or:

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/t/TORZPP/

etc etc.

I don't mind spending a few quid on summmat that really /is/ better
(and I don't have to come back to for a few years).

Cheers, T i m


[1] A mate gave me an old - large can of something that smelled like
Hammerite but was full of bits. I sealed one end of each post, poured
half the can in each, sealed the other end and moved them about a bit
before draining the surplus off, hoping it would give the insides a
good coating.

I worked as a structural steel painter in the chemical industry, ICI to be
precise, and their specs for painting steelwork was 1 coat of red lead, 2
coats of MIO (micaceous iron oxide) and 1 coat of gloss.
The gloss was merely for colour coding, all the acid pipes were green,
oxygen white etc, MIO is what's normally seen on electricity pylons and
steel lamp posts.

We occasionally used zinc oxide primer, because it was quick drying and
sometimes it was stipulated depending upon the job in hand, a word of
caution if you decide to use ZO, wear goggles, it (seriously!!!) stings for
about an hour if you get a splash in your eye

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

I think I mentioned a while back about metal primers and I've got a
bit nearer the project again and wondered if anything had changed in
the meantime.

By that I mean I have a can of red oxide in the workshop and was
considering using it on the two (new but slightly weathered) steel
gate posts I'm about to plant [1] but I think it was suggested there
are 'better' solutions out there now (better than red oxide I mean).

However, this seems good vfm:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13032/...rimer-1Ltr-Red
http://tinyurl.com/38dn6lx

And if it's been used on a narrow boat?

Similar he

http://preview.tinyurl.com/32zrt4n

Both a lot cheaper than Hammerite but do you get what you pay for?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/36sqqhx

or less for mo

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3axfy2b

What about this (in less quantity):

http://preview.tinyurl.com/376yks9

or:

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/t/TORZPP/

etc etc.

I don't mind spending a few quid on summmat that really /is/ better
(and I don't have to come back to for a few years).

Cheers, T i m


[1] A mate gave me an old - large can of something that smelled like
Hammerite but was full of bits. I sealed one end of each post, poured
half the can in each, sealed the other end and moved them about a bit
before draining the surplus off, hoping it would give the insides a
good coating.

Its been some years now, but when I was refurbishing bikes I went through a
range of expensive treatments and coatings, but in the end nothing worked
better than red lead and brushing enamel.

I doubt if things have progressed much.

Having said that, I have also been quite pleased with the Screwfix grey
metal primer, which feels satisfyingly heavy, though I have not used it on
any serious outdoor stuff yet.

S

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 16:07:56 GMT, Cicero
wrote:

However I am
considering some Waxoil for the sills on a couple of the cars as I
repair them (via a Shutz gun probably).

If you mean inside the sills there is a spray kit with various 'bendy'
tubes and rose ends for internal spraying.

Yeah, I was looking into that a while ago. I did some work on the
Astra and need to do some more again soon and thought (FWIW) that
doing a bit of preventative work might not be a bad idea (especially
as there is now bare metal behind where I was welding).

Strategically drilled entry
holes allow you to slowly withdraw the spray to allow full coverage.
Blind rubber grommets seal the drilled holes.

I (hope) I found the only bit of rust on the Corsa we bought recently
at the front of the n/s/r wheel arch. I got the angle grinder with a
wire cup in there then some back Hammerite to protect the outside for
now. It was my intention to remove the road wheels one at some point,
pressure wash the arches (full of Scottish mud) and check for any
other failure of the under seal before it becomes an issue.

Whilst there I found some blanking grommets so I assume they were
either there from the factory or dealer etc. I have a compressor so
thought a Shutz version of Waxoil (and as you say I think it comes
with the long 'wand') would be worth a go, or are you saying there is
a cheaper 'bulk' way of doing that?

snip

p.s. Our local branch recently removed all 'Basics' cereals, apparently
at the frustration of many of their customers (inc us).

Much the same here with Lidl - some stuff (Muesli, fresh veg) good but
don't touch jam as it's so runny it can hardly stand still.

Hehe.

I bought a little folding sack barrow from there the other day. I
couldn't buy the parts for £14.99.

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:52:37 +0100, "Phil L"
wrote:


I worked as a structural steel painter in the chemical industry, ICI

(did they always make Hammerite do you know?)

http://www.icipaints.co.uk/index.jsp?brand=hammerite

to be
precise, and their specs for painting steelwork was 1 coat of red lead,

Is that the same a 'Red Oxide' (Red Lead Oxide)?

2
coats of MIO (micaceous iron oxide) and 1 coat of gloss.

Ok.

The gloss was merely for colour coding,

So didn't provide any extra protection?

all the acid pipes were green,
oxygen white etc, MIO is what's normally seen on electricity pylons and
steel lamp posts.

Ah, thanks.

We occasionally used zinc oxide primer, because it was quick drying and
sometimes it was stipulated depending upon the job in hand,

So would you say it's 'better' than red oxide?

This is the current version of what I dug out of my workshop ..

http://preview.tinyurl.com/388f7na

a word of
caution if you decide to use ZO, wear goggles, it (seriously!!!) stings for
about an hour if you get a splash in your eye

Noted. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

What are you planting the posts in?
Use SBR with 2" surround of concrete should work pretty well.

The problem with any coating is anything scratching the surface will
eventually pinhole and underground water can migrate in. The only
coating that would really work is an epoxy coating, a cheapish one for
cars is POR-15, the best would be 2pk zinc rich epoxy primer or
cheaper epoxy mastic. Critical rebar sections are epoxy coated for
proper corrosion protection under saline conditions.

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 17:54:15 +0100, "Spamlet"
wrote:



[1] A mate gave me an old - large can of something that smelled like
Hammerite but was full of bits. I sealed one end of each post, poured
half the can in each, sealed the other end and moved them about a bit
before draining the surplus off, hoping it would give the insides a
good coating.

Its been some years now, but when I was refurbishing bikes I went through a
range of expensive treatments and coatings, but in the end nothing worked
better than red lead and brushing enamel.

Funny that isn't it. Dad painted the inside of a fibreglass dinghy and
used 'special' primer for the purpose, cleaning the hull meticulously
and monitoring the temperature and humidity as per the instructions. A
month later if fell off in large patches. ;-(

I painted out the inside of my 14' fibreglass dinghy with some
slightly diluted polyurethane paint, followed by a neat coat and two
weeks sailing in the Lake District and it stuck like s to a b!

Similar a mate used to paint his stock cars with Re-Paint. One day he
ran out so used Dulux gloss and never went back. ;-)

I doubt if things have progressed much.

Seems to be the case in many fields.

Having said that, I have also been quite pleased with the Screwfix grey
metal primer, which feels satisfyingly heavy, though I have not used it on
any serious outdoor stuff yet.

And that's the big one isn't it.

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:35:56 -0700 (PDT), "js.b1"
wrote:

What are you planting the posts in?

Not really thought about it yet. The wood or concrete posts I've done
previously were just a plain concrete mix and a bit of rubble in the
big gaps. Depending on how it all goes, I might be removing the old
wooden 5" sq stump from the concrete hole and the 4" sq steel post
could sit back in the middle of that? Maybe I could use something
'lighter' (self leveling vinyl?) and pour it around the steel post
(less chance of damaging the paint but would it work)?

Use SBR with 2" surround of concrete should work pretty well.

Ok cheers.

The problem with any coating is anything scratching the surface will
eventually pinhole and underground water can migrate in.

Ah.

The only
coating that would really work is an epoxy coating, a cheapish one for
cars is POR-15, the best would be 2pk zinc rich epoxy primer or
cheaper epoxy mastic.

So the post is actually encapsulated in a plastic jacket (below ground
anyway).

Critical rebar sections are epoxy coated for
proper corrosion protection under saline conditions.

So (if I don't use any epoxy etc) a good few layers of paint should
also help, plus a bit of care re not scratching the paint etc?

Cheers, T i m

Cicero wrote:



It's usually recommended that Waxoyl is thinned for spraying with white
spirit/turps substitute as it can be very stiff and viscous even in
Summer temperatures.

No it isn't that just makes it too*fluid it doesn't stick to anything and
just dries to a puddle at the bottom of the sill.
Use a proper air powered*applicator sprayer and if it's that cold that the
waxoil is as thick as beeswax put the tin in a bucket of worm water for a
bit before poring into gun.*



The original genuine Waxoyl sprayer

is utterly useless
\0

T i m wrote:
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:52:37 +0100, "Phil L"
wrote:


I worked as a structural steel painter in the chemical industry, ICI

(did they always make Hammerite do you know?)

http://www.icipaints.co.uk/index.jsp?brand=hammerite


They never used to make it originally, and they wouldn't use it on their
stuff, it's far too important :-)

to be
precise, and their specs for painting steelwork was 1 coat of red
lead,

Is that the same a 'Red Oxide' (Red Lead Oxide)?

Don't remember 'oxide' we always called it red lead, and it weighed a ton,
so it may have contained lead. It had a consistency of cheese spread and
obviously we used to dilute it with about 30% turps / 70% paint- it was the
only way to get it out of the tin.


2
coats of MIO (micaceous iron oxide) and 1 coat of gloss.

Ok.

The gloss was merely for colour coding,

So didn't provide any extra protection?

Very little as MIO is a finish on it's own, I've a feeling it was more to do
with H&S than anything else, handrails painted yellow (and nothing else
could be painted yellow), structural steel like stairways, gantrys etc were
blue, and as I said all pipes and vessels were colour coded.
I suppose it may have offered slight protection, but not very much in those
settings, very close to Mersey estuary, in a huge plant processing mainly
salt mined from Cheshire


all the acid pipes were green,
oxygen white etc, MIO is what's normally seen on electricity pylons
and steel lamp posts.

Ah, thanks.

We occasionally used zinc oxide primer, because it was quick drying
and sometimes it was stipulated depending upon the job in hand,

So would you say it's 'better' than red oxide?

I didn't stay long enough to find out, I only worked there for 2 years and
nothing we did in that time needed doing again while we was there


This is the current version of what I dug out of my workshop ..

http://preview.tinyurl.com/388f7na


I'd just use that if I were you, the steelwork I worked on was lucky to be
treated every 20 years, and even then 90% of it was unblemished, so if you
can give your steel a few coats of that, followed by 2 gloss, it should last
easily 10 - 15 years before it needs doing again, barring collisions or
other acidental damage etc

By slightly weathered, do you mean they have surface rust? - if so, give
them a good rub down on a dry, warm day and apply first coat immediately, we
often worked alongside shotblasters who would start off blasting and we
would be 10 feet behind them all the time as rust can form *very* quickly -
the following day the blasters would strip 6ft of paint so as to be sure it
was all blasted and painted at the same time,

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 22:59:53 +0100, Mark wrote:


Use a proper air powered*applicator sprayer and if it's that cold that the
waxoil is as thick as beeswax put the tin in a bucket of worm water for a
bit before poring into gun.*

So that's the Shutz gun:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/383d3a2

and compressor and some:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3y7bms2

?

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 22:59:53 +0100, Mark wrote:


Use a proper air powered*applicator sprayer and if it's that cold that the
waxoil is as thick as beeswax put the tin in a bucket of worm water for a
bit before poring into gun.

So that's the Shutz gun:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/383d3a2

and compressor and some:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3y7bms2

?

Cheers, T i m

The black waxoyl is more of an underseal used on exposed chassis bits likely
to suffer stone damage.
This is the original waxoyl for sills and inside doors etc
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...egoryId_165594
this is more like mine,
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SEALEY-SG19-Wa...-/350291653423
but mine is all metal and the container is pressurised so it sprays really
thick waxoyl out of a long hose you can do all of a sill in one go, and*very
little runs out of the drain holes in sills and door panels, as yet i can't
find anyone online stocking exactly the same product.**
\0

T i m wrote:

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 22:59:53 +0100, Mark wrote:


Use a proper air powered*applicator sprayer and if it's that cold that the
waxoil is as thick as beeswax put the tin in a bucket of worm water for a
bit before poring into gun.

So that's the Shutz gun:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/383d3a2


This is my waxoyl applicator*gun but unfortunately i can't find anyone that
now stock this.
http://i34.tinypic.com/1109kwm.jpg
\0

On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 23:02:29 +0100, Mark wrote:

T i m wrote:

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 22:59:53 +0100, Mark wrote:


Use a proper air powered*applicator sprayer and if it's that cold that the
waxoil is as thick as beeswax put the tin in a bucket of worm water for a
bit before poring into gun.

So that's the Shutz gun:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/383d3a2

and compressor and some:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3y7bms2

?

Cheers, T i m

The black waxoyl is more of an underseal used on exposed chassis bits likely
to suffer stone damage.
This is the original waxoyl for sills and inside doors etc
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...egoryId_165594

The words on your tin are the same on my tin except that mine is
'Black and yours is 'Clear'?

this is more like mine,
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SEALEY-SG19-Wa...-/350291653423

Thanks.

So that replaces the Shutz gun and container.

but mine is all metal and the container

(so I see from the later post). It's looks a properly made bit of kit.
;-)

is pressurised so it sprays really
thick waxoyl out of a long hose you can do all of a sill in one go, and*very
little runs out of the drain holes in sills and door panels,

I guess you want a transparent mock-sill to practice on and to
reassure it's doing what it should. ;-)

as yet i can't
find anyone online stocking exactly the same product.**

I'm hoping the (cheap) Shutz gun and disposable (refillable?)
cartridge would be ok for the small amount of use I hope to put it to
but thanks for the feedback.

Cheers, T i m