To comply with insurance requirements need to chain my trailer to an
immovable object.

Easiest way would see to be to use some 10mm thick link chain around trailer
cross beam, and then fix it back on itself with a suitable padlock.


I did look at security anchors for setting into floor but they are pricey.

Thought are instead to fix either one end of chain to wood stud (wood frame
construction ) or fix a saddle, hoop, eye or similar to studs that would
allow to pass chain through (could then padlock both ends together (2nd
method would see preferable)


Anybody know of any suitable item that I can screw/bolt to the studs to
provide this loop.

I know you could say if I fixed a 'saddle' with a couple of large coach
screws ,,, they could be 'undone' ... but probably Ok for security, as it
needs tools to undo ... and you could bolt crop through chain anyway.

Rick Hughes wrote:
To comply with insurance requirements need to chain my trailer to an
immovable object.


Stop right there.

all the cycle maniacs that infest the Cambridge groups agree that there
is nothing easier to cut than the *average* chain, or padlock, and bike
thieves and bolt cutters are inseparable.

So be clear as to whether you are actually trying to prevent theft, or
merely comply with stupid insurance regulations.



Easiest way would see to be to use some 10mm thick link chain around
trailer cross beam, and then fix it back on itself with a suitable padlock.


I did look at security anchors for setting into floor but they are pricey.


thats because they are purpose made.

chip out a big hole in the floor. Get some serious steel bar, and bend a
U shape with 'serifs' and cement the lot in place.



Thought are instead to fix either one end of chain to wood stud (wood
frame construction ) or fix a saddle, hoop, eye or similar to studs
that would allow to pass chain through (could then padlock both ends
together (2nd method would see preferable)



If you want real security, make up some masonry somewhere and embed a
massive steel ring in it.

Any wood structure is way weaker than the chain, and will be a natural
point of attack.


Anybody know of any suitable item that I can screw/bolt to the studs to
provide this loop.

I know you could say if I fixed a 'saddle' with a couple of large coach
screws ,,, they could be 'undone' ... but probably Ok for security, as
it needs tools to undo ... and you could bolt crop through chain anyway.

precisely. There are chains that you cant crop through..high carbon
steel? for example. Likewise padlocks that are not mild steel.

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:08:52 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

So be clear as to whether you are actually trying to prevent theft, or
merely comply with stupid insurance regulations.

Hear, hear, if some one wants something bad enough you may as well
let tham have it otherwise the colateral damage is far more than the
object they want. See JCB's and ATMs...

OK stop some who just happens to be passing by walking off with it
but some one "going equipped" with bolt cutters doesn't fall into
that category.

We don't know what ground this trailer is stored over. Is it over a
floor slab in a garage, a bit of tarmac on the drive or just a bit of
rough ground. Over rough ground I'd look at those spiral screw in
ground anchor things but I can imagine those being difficult to get
into most ground due to stones or simple lack of soil depth.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 20 July, 11:38, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:

I did look at security anchors for setting into floor but they are pricey.

Dig hole

Insert loop of chain, with a foot or two of rebar threaded through it
at the bottom. Support it dangling down the hole with a stick through
the chain above.

Fill hole with concrete.

Voila. Fixed chain loop embedded in concrete.


Other method - foot or two of railway line, cut off at the end with a
fishplate bolt hole. Set in concrete, with the bolt hole accessible.


One common way of removing security chain-downs like this is to smash
the padlock with a large sledgehammer. So make sure that it can be
locked up so that the padlock isn't on the ground and can't be
manipulated to be on it.

On 20 July, 16:02, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

OK stop some who just happens to be passing by walking off with it
but some one "going equipped" with bolt cutters doesn't fall into
that category.

A decent chain will stop bolt cutters. A bigger threat is a cordless
angle grinder. Petrol disc saws are practically unstoppable, but are
however noisy.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote:
To comply with insurance requirements need to chain my trailer to an
immovable object.


Stop right there.

all the cycle maniacs that infest the Cambridge groups agree that there is
nothing easier to cut than the *average* chain, or padlock, and bike
thieves and bolt cutters are inseparable.

So be clear as to whether you are actually trying to prevent theft, or
merely comply with stupid insurance regulations.


To comply with stupid insurance regulations.


This is not a Motorbike.
It is a boat (on trailer) trailer has a Towhitch lock and a wheel clamp
...... Insurance states it must also be chained to immovable object.
Now I know that a timber frame construction could be smashed away with a
sledge, or chain cut with bolt croppers, but I have to do this.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...


We don't know what ground this trailer is stored over. Is it over a
floor slab in a garage, a bit of tarmac on the drive or just a bit of
rough ground. Over rough ground I'd look at those spiral screw in
ground anchor things but I can imagine those being difficult to get
into most ground due to stones or simple lack of soil depth.


This is a purpose built boat shed .... like a large Oak barn, reinforced
concrete raft foundation 450mm thick .... with 6" x 6" support posts for
roof bolted into steel retainers cast into concrete ... which is what I
propose to fix chain to ........... worst case is I'll just wrap chain
around post and padlock it.
It meets requirements of 'immovable'

As mentioned I did look at the drill and fix in chain anchors for bikes ...
but they don't come in stainless, and can't see them lasting long once water
gets at them.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 20 July, 11:38, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:

I did look at security anchors for setting into floor but they are
pricey.

Dig hole


in my nice new power floated reinforced concrete slab .... not an option I
want to do.

As it has 3 layer of mesh and 2 of rebar, would be a pain to dig out.

If I could get a stainless or galv eye bolt I would resin fix one of them in
..... easy enough & neat.
Can you get stainless or galv eyebolts on a length of rod ? ..... only seen
'screw-on' eyes or rawlbolts.

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...


in my nice new power floated reinforced concrete slab .... not an option I
want to do.

As it has 3 layer of mesh and 2 of rebar, would be a pain to dig out.

If I could get a stainless or galv eye bolt I would resin fix one of them
in .... easy enough & neat.
Can you get stainless or galv eyebolts on a length of rod ? ..... only
seen 'screw-on' eyes or rawlbolts.


Had a thought - but open to ideas .... could take a standard 16mm galv
lifting eye ....
http://www.tecni-cable.co.uk/M16-Gal...gs-106-053-016

Weld it onto a piece of 175mm rebar to give me around 200mm 'stud' and
resin fix that into a 16mm hole.

Easy to drill and fix ... and resin fix is better than expansion bolt.

Rick Hughes wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote:
To comply with insurance requirements need to chain my trailer to an
immovable object.


Stop right there.

all the cycle maniacs that infest the Cambridge groups agree that
there is nothing easier to cut than the *average* chain, or padlock,
and bike thieves and bolt cutters are inseparable.

So be clear as to whether you are actually trying to prevent theft, or
merely comply with stupid insurance regulations.


To comply with stupid insurance regulations.


This is not a Motorbike.
It is a boat (on trailer) trailer has a Towhitch lock and a wheel
clamp ..... Insurance states it must also be chained to immovable object.
Now I know that a timber frame construction could be smashed away with a
sledge, or chain cut with bolt croppers, but I have to do this.

Right.

now we can switch to 'what will convince loss adjuster you tried' from
what will stop thief'

In article , Rick Hughes
writes


Had a thought - but open to ideas .... could take a standard 16mm galv
lifting eye ....
http://www.tecni-cable.co.uk/M16-Gal...80-WLL-700kgs-
106-053-016

Weld it onto a piece of 175mm rebar to give me around 200mm 'stud' and
resin fix that into a 16mm hole.

Easy to drill and fix ... and resin fix is better than expansion bolt.

Female thread might be better:
http://www.wixroyd.com/purchase.php?p_no=1884&id=766

Then it can go on a length of threaded rod and welded up if you like.
I'd be nervous of giving someone a lever to rotate a resin bonded anchor
with, I could see it shearing out of the resin or shearing the threaded
rod.

If you still want to go through the wood then a shear nut would be good
for the back: http://www.securityfasteners.net/ShearNutsAndBolts.htm

Sources chosen at random, I've seen similar at Screwfix etc.

Final thought, if you go through the wood with a clearance hole for the
studding you could make it freely rotating to avoid torque attack.
Washered under the eye & back nut, shear nut as a lock nut with both
nuts protected from attack by counterboring them into the back surface.
You could cover the rear with a metal plate to make the workings less
obvious too.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

Rick Hughes wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...


We don't know what ground this trailer is stored over. Is it over a
floor slab in a garage, a bit of tarmac on the drive or just a bit of
rough ground. Over rough ground I'd look at those spiral screw in
ground anchor things but I can imagine those being difficult to get
into most ground due to stones or simple lack of soil depth.


This is a purpose built boat shed .... like a large Oak barn, reinforced
concrete raft foundation 450mm thick .... with 6" x 6" support posts for
roof bolted into steel retainers cast into concrete ... which is what I
propose to fix chain to ........... worst case is I'll just wrap chain
around post and padlock it.
It meets requirements of 'immovable'

As mentioned I did look at the drill and fix in chain anchors for bikes
... but they don't come in stainless, and can't see them lasting long
once water gets at them.


stainless is not strong, merely stainless.


And the boa is normally under cover surely?

Sounds like a bit of serious anchor chain round the post and a bloody
big padlock is all you need.

On 20 July, 11:38, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:
To comply with insurance requirements need to chain my trailer to an
immovable object.

Easiest way would see to be to use some 10mm thick link chain around trailer
cross beam, and then fix it back on itself with a suitable padlock.

I did look at security anchors for setting into floor but they are pricey..

Thought are instead to fix either one end of chain to wood stud *(wood frame
construction ) *or fix a saddle, hoop, eye or similar to studs that would
allow to pass chain through *(could then padlock both ends together *(2nd
method would see preferable)

Anybody know of any suitable item that I can screw/bolt to the studs to
provide this loop.

I know you could say if I fixed a 'saddle' with a couple of large coach
screws ,,, they could be 'undone' *... but probably Ok for security, as it
needs tools to undo ... and you could bolt crop through chain anyway.

There are security screws and bolts available that screw in but not
out. They are in Screwfix cat.

On 20 July, 17:15, "Rick Hughes"
wrote:

in my nice new power floated reinforced concrete slab .... not an option I
want to do.

Then if you're drilling, the best option is a couple of 12-14mm holes
downwards in a vee, and set a steel hairpin into them. For a neat
job, you can do this below a shallow hole a couple of inch diameter
that you've core-drilled at the top.

There are also M16 scaffolding eyes that a pretty strong and come with
shield bolt or expanding sleeve fittings. They're usually intended to
be unscrewable though, so either use two (chain between prevents
rotation) or weld something on. On the whole though, I prefer a big
hole and cement mortar rather than faffing about with mechanical plugs.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote:
To comply with insurance requirements need to chain my trailer to an
immovable object.


Stop right there.

all the cycle maniacs that infest the Cambridge groups agree that there is
nothing easier to cut than the *average* chain, or padlock, and bike
thieves and bolt cutters are inseparable.

So be clear as to whether you are actually trying to prevent theft, or
merely comply with stupid insurance regulations.



Easiest way would see to be to use some 10mm thick link chain around
trailer cross beam, and then fix it back on itself with a suitable
padlock.


I did look at security anchors for setting into floor but they are
pricey.


thats because they are purpose made.

chip out a big hole in the floor. Get some serious steel bar, and bend a U
shape with 'serifs' and cement the lot in place.



Thought are instead to fix either one end of chain to wood stud (wood
frame construction ) or fix a saddle, hoop, eye or similar to studs that
would allow to pass chain through (could then padlock both ends together
(2nd method would see preferable)



If you want real security, make up some masonry somewhere and embed a
massive steel ring in it.

Any wood structure is way weaker than the chain, and will be a natural
point of attack.


Anybody know of any suitable item that I can screw/bolt to the studs to
provide this loop.

I know you could say if I fixed a 'saddle' with a couple of large coach
screws ,,, they could be 'undone' ... but probably Ok for security, as
it needs tools to undo ... and you could bolt crop through chain anyway.

precisely. There are chains that you cant crop through..high carbon steel?
for example. Likewise padlocks that are not mild steel.

Next door but one to me bought a swamp buggy/beach buggy/bike or whatever
they are called these days. He anchored it on both sides with chains
through holes in masonry with reinforcing rods in.

In broad daylight some 'workmen' arrived, cut and hammered their way through
the concrete and reinforcing rods; loaded it on a trailer, and left. With
so much house and garden renovation and extension going on, nobody knew they
were thieves.

The only safe thing is something nobody wants.

S

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

precisely. There are chains that you cant crop through..high carbon
steel? for example.

Almax is the only one that survives attack with extreme boltcutter
prejudice. Obviously an AG will eventually get through it.