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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

I need to replace the fence in my back yard. I currently have a 3'
chain link fence and I intend to reuse the same post positions (8'
span). Behind the fence, also on my property, are cedar hedges. My
back yard is 50'x50' with one of the four sides being the house and
gate.

I need to replace the fence because my dogs are escaping the yard.
I've already replaced the gate with a wooden one 7' tall. I want to
install a 7' fence around the entire yard (7' is my local residential
maximum height). Because I have cedar hedges that I enjoy, I'd like
to put in black or green chain link since the hedge will grown through
it and make it effectively invisible. Our current fence is invisible
because of this.

My first problem is the prices I'm being quoted for materials. Turns
out that around here anything over 5' is pretty much commercial
grade. That means steel posts and about 5x the cost of the
residential stuff. I'm thinking that instead of using metal posts for
the corner and line posts, I'd use wood. What do you think about
using a 10' 4x4 buried 3' deep for a chain link fence post? I would
make holes in the top to pass the top bar through and would attach the
chain link with flat brackets and screws. Has anyone seen this type
of installation before? As a bonus I could run an outdoor circuit and
have a decorative lantern on every second post (the wife will find
that purdy).

Second question is securing the posts. I live in Canada and the
ground freezes during the winter. I'm thinking of digging the holes 3
1/2', fill with 3' of gravel, 3' of concrete then put in and brace the
post and fill the rest of the hole with concrete. I'd also put the
wooden post in a plastic liner so it doesn't make direct contact with
the concrete and also mound the top to prevent water accumulation.
Does that sound excessive or just about right? Would you suggest
something different for the corner posts or line posts?

Third question is how large would you dig the post holes? I'm not
planning to use sonotube for these but would you go with a 6", 8" or
10" diameter hole?

Thanks!
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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

Jon wrote:
I need to replace the fence in my back yard. I currently have a 3'
chain link fence and I intend to reuse the same post positions (8'
span). Behind the fence, also on my property, are cedar hedges. My
back yard is 50'x50' with one of the four sides being the house and
gate.

I need to replace the fence because my dogs are escaping the yard.

(snip)

http://www.gallagherusa.com/permanen...mktprodid=1344
http://www.electric-fence.com/Shop/s...roductID=56 4


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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link


"Jon" wrote in message
...
I need to replace the fence in my back yard. I currently have a 3'
chain link fence and I intend to reuse the same post positions (8'
span). Behind the fence, also on my property, are cedar hedges. My
back yard is 50'x50' with one of the four sides being the house and
gate.

I need to replace the fence because my dogs are escaping the yard.
I've already replaced the gate with a wooden one 7' tall. I want to
install a 7' fence around the entire yard (7' is my local residential
maximum height). Because I have cedar hedges that I enjoy, I'd like
to put in black or green chain link since the hedge will grown through
it and make it effectively invisible. Our current fence is invisible
because of this.

My first problem is the prices I'm being quoted for materials. Turns
out that around here anything over 5' is pretty much commercial
grade. That means steel posts and about 5x the cost of the
residential stuff. I'm thinking that instead of using metal posts for
the corner and line posts, I'd use wood. What do you think about
using a 10' 4x4 buried 3' deep for a chain link fence post? I would
make holes in the top to pass the top bar through and would attach the
chain link with flat brackets and screws. Has anyone seen this type
of installation before? As a bonus I could run an outdoor circuit and
have a decorative lantern on every second post (the wife will find
that purdy).

Second question is securing the posts. I live in Canada and the
ground freezes during the winter. I'm thinking of digging the holes 3
1/2', fill with 3' of gravel, 3' of concrete then put in and brace the
post and fill the rest of the hole with concrete. I'd also put the
wooden post in a plastic liner so it doesn't make direct contact with
the concrete and also mound the top to prevent water accumulation.
Does that sound excessive or just about right? Would you suggest
something different for the corner posts or line posts?

Third question is how large would you dig the post holes? I'm not
planning to use sonotube for these but would you go with a 6", 8" or
10" diameter hole?

Thanks!


Not what you want to hear. IMO, I would bite the bullet and do it properly
or I would not do it all all.

Even if you mange after much frustration to make it work, what have you done
for the resale value of your home?

What size dog needs a 7 foot fence???


--
Colbyt
Please come visit www.househomerepair.com


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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link


"Jon" wrote in message

My first problem is the prices I'm being quoted for materials. Turns
out that around here anything over 5' is pretty much commercial
grade. That means steel posts and about 5x the cost of the
residential stuff. I'm thinking that instead of using metal posts for
the corner and line posts, I'd use wood. What do you think about
using a 10' 4x4 buried 3' deep for a chain link fence post?


Steel prices have gone through the roof the past couple of years. As for
the posts, I'd either use the metal or not bother doing the job. My guess
is the line posts may be OK for a few years, but the corner posts can be
trouble with the tension on them. .





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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

"Colbyt" wrote in
m:


"Jon" wrote in message
.
..
I need to replace the fence in my back yard. I currently have a 3'
chain link fence and I intend to reuse the same post positions (8'
span). Behind the fence, also on my property, are cedar hedges. My
back yard is 50'x50' with one of the four sides being the house and
gate.

I need to replace the fence because my dogs are escaping the yard.
I've already replaced the gate with a wooden one 7' tall. I want to
install a 7' fence around the entire yard (7' is my local residential
maximum height). Because I have cedar hedges that I enjoy, I'd like
to put in black or green chain link since the hedge will grown
through it and make it effectively invisible. Our current fence is
invisible because of this.

My first problem is the prices I'm being quoted for materials. Turns
out that around here anything over 5' is pretty much commercial
grade. That means steel posts and about 5x the cost of the
residential stuff. I'm thinking that instead of using metal posts
for the corner and line posts, I'd use wood. What do you think about
using a 10' 4x4 buried 3' deep for a chain link fence post? I would
make holes in the top to pass the top bar through and would attach
the chain link with flat brackets and screws. Has anyone seen this
type of installation before? As a bonus I could run an outdoor
circuit and have a decorative lantern on every second post (the wife
will find that purdy).

Second question is securing the posts. I live in Canada and the
ground freezes during the winter. I'm thinking of digging the holes
3 1/2', fill with 3' of gravel, 3' of concrete then put in and brace
the post and fill the rest of the hole with concrete. I'd also put
the wooden post in a plastic liner so it doesn't make direct contact
with the concrete and also mound the top to prevent water
accumulation. Does that sound excessive or just about right? Would
you suggest something different for the corner posts or line posts?

Third question is how large would you dig the post holes? I'm not
planning to use sonotube for these but would you go with a 6", 8" or
10" diameter hole?

Thanks!


Not what you want to hear. IMO, I would bite the bullet and do it
properly or I would not do it all all.

Even if you mange after much frustration to make it work, what have
you done for the resale value of your home?

What size dog needs a 7 foot fence???




What size dog needs a 7 foot fence???


Next door neighbor's dog a few years back. He's got is paws on a 4ft
chain link fence. Note I am standing erect, I am reaching upward some and
we are eye to eye. The cage in the background was when he was a "puppy"
in the house at night. His heart was as big as him.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=20frksg&s=3



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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

On Apr 23, 3:55 pm, Jon wrote:

I need to replace the fence because my dogs are escaping the yard.


That sounds like a dog problem, not a fence problem.

Your dogs don't know their boundaries, their "territory", and that is-
whatever you tell them it is.

I'd try training the dogs for free before I replaced what I assume to
be a perfectly good fence. A determined dog might just dig under a
fence he can't climb over, and then where are ya?

Perhaps you have already tried that and failed and assumed that since
you couldn't do it, it can't be done. It can, and chances are best
that you can do it.

I'd trying looking for advice in some kind of dog training group on
Usenet (no, I don't know) or other such type forum. If the general
consensus there is that it can't be done, go elsewhere. I have (just
1 left of 2, and actually the wife's, and spoiled ****ing rotten) Jack
Daniels Terrier, and you won't find a more dominant/
independentstubborn and nasty-mean breed on the planet. If I trained
them to stay in the yard, so can you.

OTOH, if you want to replace the fence and are using the dogs as a
contributing factor, have at it.

I think your 4x4 posts would work OK for chain link, probably, buried
*¨÷* of their length deep with *all* the dirt tamped back in the hole,
level, no cheating. The corner posts I'd guess would best be half
buried. That's how we used to set them back on the farm anyway,
stretching 3 strands of barbed wire.

I don't know squat about chain link but, if you're planning to die
there, and the shrubbery is going to overgrow the fence, you might not
have to stretch it ****-tight.

Just as a former farm boy (just like in TPB!) and not a fence expert,
I can't think of a single reason to use concrete/cement. Posts rot,
then you've made some real work if equipment can't get in there.

A post properly set in dirt (most dirt, not every single composition
of "soil") will stand plump (oops) plumb until most if not every
species of post fails due to rot.

And if it doesn't, c/c probably wouldn't have helped much , unless it
was a ****load. (that's an estimate, and guess)
-----

- gpsman
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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link


"Jon" wrote in message
...
: I need to replace the fence because my dogs are escaping the yard.

Get an electric or invisible fence.

bonnie


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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

On Apr 24, 1:06 am, gpsman wrote:
On Apr 23, 3:55 pm, Jon wrote:



I need to replace thefencebecause my dogs are escaping the yard.


That sounds like a dog problem, not afenceproblem.

Your dogs don't know their boundaries, their "territory", and that is-
whatever you tell them it is.

I'd try training the dogs for free before I replaced what I assume to
be a perfectly goodfence. A determined dog might just dig under afencehe can't climb over, and then where are ya?

Perhaps you have already tried that and failed and assumed that since
you couldn't do it, it can't be done. It can, and chances are best
that you can do it.

I'd trying looking for advice in some kind of dog training group on
Usenet (no, I don't know) or other such type forum. If the general
consensus there is that it can't be done, go elsewhere. I have (just
1 left of 2, and actually the wife's, and spoiled ****ing rotten) Jack
Daniels Terrier, and you won't find a more dominant/
independentstubborn and nasty-mean breed on the planet. If I trained
them to stay in the yard, so can you.

OTOH, if you want to replace thefenceand are using the dogs as a
contributing factor, have at it.

I think your 4x4 posts would work OK for chain link, probably, buried
*¨÷* of their length deep with *all* the dirt tamped back in the hole,
level, no cheating. The corner posts I'd guess would best be half
buried. That's how we used to set them back on the farm anyway,
stretching 3 strands of barbed wire.

I don't know squat about chain link but, if you're planning to die
there, and the shrubbery is going to overgrow thefence, you might not
have to stretch it ****-tight.

Just as a former farm boy (just like in TPB!) and not afenceexpert,
I can't think of a single reason to use concrete/cement. Posts rot,
then you've made some real work if equipment can't get in there.

Apostproperly set in dirt (most dirt, not every single composition
of "soil") will stand plump (oops) plumb until most if not every
species ofpostfails due to rot.

And if it doesn't, c/c probably wouldn't have helped much , unless it
was a ****load. (that's an estimate, and guess)
-----

- gpsman


Thanks for the great feedback everyone.

First off the dogs are Siberian Huskies. If you're not familiar with
them they are a sled dog breed and have been bred for that purpose.
In any breed description you read they'll tell you they are escape
artists and love to run. They are also nomadic (not territorial) so
they don't have that sense of where to return home. My dogs have
those traits. So while it might not be impossible to train them as
you suggest, better people than me have failed to train their huskies
to behave like a lab or shepherd. To everyone that suggested an
electric fence those are expressively forbidden in my area as are barb
wire and chicken wire. Someone mentioned them digging out and in fact
they've done that too but I've got that covered already with a
combination of chain link buried 1 1/2' deep and a patio stone
"walkway" along the bottom of the fence.

What you are saying about not using concrete makes sense but what
about frost heave? Here the ground is frozen for part of the year and
frost heave is a concern. Local code for a deck requires concrete
footings 5' deep.

Its looking like those steel posts are the only real way to do
this...
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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

Jon wrote:
I need to replace the fence in my back yard. I currently have a 3'
chain link fence and I intend to reuse the same post positions (8'
span). Behind the fence, also on my property, are cedar hedges. My
back yard is 50'x50' with one of the four sides being the house and
gate.

I need to replace the fence because my dogs are escaping the yard.
I've already replaced the gate with a wooden one 7' tall. I want to
install a 7' fence around the entire yard (7' is my local residential
maximum height). Because I have cedar hedges that I enjoy, I'd like
to put in black or green chain link since the hedge will grown through
it and make it effectively invisible. Our current fence is invisible
because of this.

My first problem is the prices I'm being quoted for materials. Turns
out that around here anything over 5' is pretty much commercial
grade. That means steel posts and about 5x the cost of the
residential stuff. I'm thinking that instead of using metal posts for
the corner and line posts, I'd use wood. What do you think about
using a 10' 4x4 buried 3' deep for a chain link fence post? I would
make holes in the top to pass the top bar through and would attach the
chain link with flat brackets and screws. Has anyone seen this type
of installation before? As a bonus I could run an outdoor circuit and
have a decorative lantern on every second post (the wife will find
that purdy).

Second question is securing the posts. I live in Canada and the
ground freezes during the winter. I'm thinking of digging the holes 3
1/2', fill with 3' of gravel, 3' of concrete then put in and brace the
post and fill the rest of the hole with concrete. I'd also put the
wooden post in a plastic liner so it doesn't make direct contact with
the concrete and also mound the top to prevent water accumulation.
Does that sound excessive or just about right? Would you suggest
something different for the corner posts or line posts?

Third question is how large would you dig the post holes? I'm not
planning to use sonotube for these but would you go with a 6", 8" or
10" diameter hole?


If you already have sturdy metal posts, why replace them?

If they're not tall enough, get a larger diameter post to slip over the top,
bolted to the existing pots. Couple of holes in each post/sleeve has got to
be easier than replacing the existing configuration with something that's
going to rot and fail in a few years.

If you INSIST on 4x4s, bolt THEM to the existing posts.

Heck, you don't even have to remove the existing fence! Add a 4' layer on
top of the existing 3' fence.


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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

On Apr 24, 9:28 am, Jon wrote:

First off the dogs are Siberian Huskies.


Heh... I said to myself, unless this guy has Huskys...

What you are saying about not using concrete makes sense but what
about frost heave? Here the ground is frozen for part of the year and
frost heave is a concern. Local code for a deck requires concrete
footings 5' deep.


Mmm... no expertise, but it seems to me if frost is going to heave a
post set 3', it will heave one set 3' and in c/c, and I'd rather deal
with the former.

Its looking like those steel posts are the only real way to do
this...


HeyBub seems to have some pretty good ideas... that I'd never have
thought of until the job was done.
-----

- gpsman


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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

Jon wrote:
(snip)

To everyone that suggested an
electric fence those are expressively forbidden in my area as are barb
wire and chicken wire.


You are not going to tear out your existing fence and install an
electric fence, making your yard look like a cow pasture. That is likely
the intent of the ordinance. You already have a fence and I doubt anyone
is going to notice (much less complain) if you string some wire on it.
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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

invisble fence installed around perimeter. dogs will learn to stay
away from fence....... no more climbing jumping........

least cost way to solve problem doesnt change appearance of yard at
all
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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link


"Mike Paulsen" wrote in message
...
: Jon wrote:
: (snip)
:
: To everyone that suggested an
: electric fence those are expressively forbidden in my area as are
barb
: wire and chicken wire.
:
: You are not going to tear out your existing fence and install an
: electric fence, making your yard look like a cow pasture. That is
likely
: the intent of the ordinance. You already have a fence and I doubt
anyone
: is going to notice (much less complain) if you string some wire on it.

An "Invisible Fence" has a wire running under ground. The dog wears a
special collar. If you're not wearing the collar you can't get the
shock.


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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link


"Mike Paulsen" wrote in message
...
: Jon wrote:
: (snip)
:
: To everyone that suggested an
: electric fence those are expressively forbidden in my area as are
barb
: wire and chicken wire.
:
: You are not going to tear out your existing fence and install an
: electric fence, making your yard look like a cow pasture. That is
likely
: the intent of the ordinance. You already have a fence and I doubt
anyone
: is going to notice (much less complain) if you string some wire on it.

An "Invisible Fence" has a wire running under ground. The dog wears a
special collar. If you're not wearing the collar you can't get the
shock.


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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link


"Mike Paulsen" wrote in message
...
: Jon wrote:
: (snip)
:
: To everyone that suggested an
: electric fence those are expressively forbidden in my area as are
barb
: wire and chicken wire.
:
: You are not going to tear out your existing fence and install an
: electric fence, making your yard look like a cow pasture. That is
likely
: the intent of the ordinance. You already have a fence and I doubt
anyone
: is going to notice (much less complain) if you string some wire on it.

An "Invisible Fence" has a wire running under ground. The dog wears a
special collar. If you're not wearing the collar you can't get the
shock.




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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link


"Mike Paulsen" wrote in message
...
: Jon wrote:
: (snip)
:
: To everyone that suggested an
: electric fence those are expressively forbidden in my area as are
barb
: wire and chicken wire.
:
: You are not going to tear out your existing fence and install an
: electric fence, making your yard look like a cow pasture. That is
likely
: the intent of the ordinance. You already have a fence and I doubt
anyone
: is going to notice (much less complain) if you string some wire on it.

An "Invisible Fence" has a wire running under ground. The dog wears a
special collar. If you're not wearing the collar you can't get the
shock.


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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

On Apr 24, 1:10 pm, " wrote:
invisblefenceinstalled around perimeter. dogs will learn to stay
away fromfence....... no more climbing jumping........

least cost way to solve problem doesnt change appearance of yard at
all


Thanks for the advice! The problems with the invisible fence and our
situation are many. I have looked into it and while it may work
sometimes, I need something that works all the time every time.

For those suggesting to just add the hot wire I have additional
concerns beyond the by-laws. There are plenty of kids in the area
(including mine) and I don't want to get into a situation where a kid
gets zapped on my fence.

Honestly doing the doggy Alcatraz fence is the better solution to the
alternatives: Get rid of dogs (nope), tie up dogs (likely to get
injured; huskies play rough), build a dog run (I'd rather a tall fence
around my yard than in my yard).

I like the idea of sleeving the existing posts. The immediate concern
is are the corner posts strong enough to handle the added height.
Perhaps I can replace the corner posts and sink those deep while
keeping and sleeving the existing line posts. Since the spacing is
the same I can re-use the top posts (reduce, re-use, recycle!) and
most of the hardware. There was also a suggestion of reusing keeping
the existing chain link and adding another strip on top. I could buy
some 4' or 5' (1' overlap) fencing to do that but then would I have to
"mesh" the fences together? Has anyone tried this? Could I run a
tension wire through both meshes or should I do some kind of splicing
(that seems labor intensive)?

This is good stuff, thanks!

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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

On Apr 24, 2:30 pm, Jon wrote:

For those suggesting to just add the hot wire I have additional
concerns beyond the by-laws. There are plenty of kids in the area
(including mine) and I don't want to get into a situation where a kid
gets zapped on my fence.


Well... it would probably only happen to 1 or 2 kids, and you don't
want them climbing out either, do you?!

Get rid of dogs (nope), tie up dogs (likely to get
injured; huskies play rough), build a dog run (I'd rather a tall fence
around my yard than in my yard).


Eh, dog on a string is bad for the dog, but often the resort of people
who just want a dog to "own". It's nice to see someone who will
consider going to such lengths for the benefit of their dogs.
-----

- gpsman
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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

Jon wrote:

I like the idea of sleeving the existing posts. The immediate concern
is are the corner posts strong enough to handle the added height.
Perhaps I can replace the corner posts and sink those deep while
keeping and sleeving the existing line posts.


They are probably strong enough. If there's a concern, use diagonal bracing.


Since the spacing is
the same I can re-use the top posts (reduce, re-use, recycle!) and
most of the hardware. There was also a suggestion of reusing keeping
the existing chain link and adding another strip on top. I could buy
some 4' or 5' (1' overlap) fencing to do that but then would I have to
"mesh" the fences together? Has anyone tried this? Could I run a
tension wire through both meshes or should I do some kind of splicing
(that seems labor intensive)?


If you overlap a foot, there probably wouldn't be much need for interlocking
the strips. Even so, it's got to be less labor intensive than trying to deal
with an 8' roll of fencing material. Besides, I thought you said there was a
hedge intruding on the fence. The limbs and vines and runners and leaves and
twigs and the blooms and the bird-nests etc ought to provide ample interlace
integrity.


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Default Need Fence advise: Wood + Chain link

On Apr 23, 2:55 pm, Jon wrote:
I need to replace the fence in my back yard. I currently have a 3'
chain link fence and I intend to reuse the same post positions (8'
span). Behind the fence, also on my property, are cedar hedges. My
back yard is 50'x50' with one of the four sides being the house and
gate.

I need to replace the fence because my dogs are escaping the yard.
I've already replaced the gate with a wooden one 7' tall. I want to
install a 7' fence around the entire yard (7' is my local residential
maximum height). Because I have cedar hedges that I enjoy, I'd like
to put in black or green chain link since the hedge will grown through
it and make it effectively invisible. Our current fence is invisible
because of this.

My first problem is the prices I'm being quoted for materials. Turns
out that around here anything over 5' is pretty much commercial
grade. That means steel posts and about 5x the cost of the
residential stuff. I'm thinking that instead of using metal posts for
the corner and line posts, I'd use wood. What do you think about
using a 10' 4x4 buried 3' deep for a chain link fence post? I would
make holes in the top to pass the top bar through and would attach the
chain link with flat brackets and screws. Has anyone seen this type
of installation before? As a bonus I could run an outdoor circuit and
have a decorative lantern on every second post (the wife will find
that purdy).

Second question is securing the posts. I live in Canada and the
ground freezes during the winter. I'm thinking of digging the holes 3
1/2', fill with 3' of gravel, 3' of concrete then put in and brace the
post and fill the rest of the hole with concrete. I'd also put the
wooden post in a plastic liner so it doesn't make direct contact with
the concrete and also mound the top to prevent water accumulation.
Does that sound excessive or just about right? Would you suggest
something different for the corner posts or line posts?

Third question is how large would you dig the post holes? I'm not
planning to use sonotube for these but would you go with a 6", 8" or
10" diameter hole?

Thanks!


I second the motion on re-using the existing posts, or possibly
putting in new longer posts of the same kind (metal).

A couple years ago I took down a 4-foot high chainlink fence around my
backyard. It had been there a good 20 years at least. The galvanized
steel posts were simply driven into the ground. The buried parts were
a little rusty, but nowhere near failing. Same for the rest of the
fence -- really it was fine, just not as purdy as the wood fence I
replaced it with. This is in Chicago, long winters, clay soil, lots
of moisture. My point is the regular steel posts and chainlink wire
seem to last a long time with little care. I doubt you'd get the same
performance from wooden posts.

-- H
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