Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

In article
s.com, David Robinson scribeth thus
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Umm ... people usually use it to pretend that it was pre part P ....
--
Tony Sayer

"David Robinson" wrote in message
...
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

No

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

No

Sorry

Adam

"David Robinson" wrote in message
...
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Sell it on eBay - it commands a premium !

AWEM

"David Robinson" wrote in message
...
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Yes you can use it.
The requirement is that a cable shall be identifiable at its
terminations..........
So red and black cable correctly sleeved is within the regulations.
514.3.2

Regards
Bruce

"BruceB" wrote in message
...


"David Robinson" wrote in message
...
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Yes you can use it.
The requirement is that a cable shall be identifiable at its
terminations..........
So red and black cable correctly sleeved is within the regulations.
514.3.2

Regards
Bruce

No way

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir.../amend2-04.cfm

applies.

Cheers

Adam

"BruceB" wrote in message
...


"David Robinson" wrote in message
...
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Yes you can use it.
The requirement is that a cable shall be identifiable at its
terminations..........
So red and black cable correctly sleeved is within the regulations.
514.3.2

Regards
Bruce

No way

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir.../amend2-04.cfm

applies.

Cheers

Adam

On 24/06/2010 18:52, tony sayer wrote:
In
s.com, David scribeth thus
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Umm ... people usually use it to pretend that it was pre part P ....

I use the new colour cable for things I am allowed to do and the old
colour cable in the garage is getting used up slowly for other odds and
ends.

Invisible Man wrote:
On 24/06/2010 18:52, tony sayer wrote:
In

s.com, David scribeth
thus
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Umm ... people usually use it to pretend that it was pre part P ....

I use the new colour cable for things I am allowed to do and the old
colour cable in the garage is getting used up slowly for other odds
and ends.

Now there's a good boy! I have a similar stash of material available for
appropriate use.

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:09:42 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:

"BruceB" wrote in message
...


"David Robinson" wrote in message
...
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Yes you can use it.
The requirement is that a cable shall be identifiable at its
terminations..........
So red and black cable correctly sleeved is within the regulations.
514.3.2

Regards
Bruce

No way

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir.../amend2-04.cfm

applies.

Cheers

Adam

There's way to much to wade through there, but where does it say that you
can't use red and black as long as it's sleeved?

514-03-02 Seems to say that you can - "Every core of a cable shall be
identifiable at its terminations and preferably throughout its length.
Binding and sleeves for identification purposes shall comply with BS 3858
where appropriate"

SteveW

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:09:42 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:

"BruceB" wrote in message
...


"David Robinson" wrote in message
...
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Yes you can use it.
The requirement is that a cable shall be identifiable at its
terminations..........
So red and black cable correctly sleeved is within the regulations.
514.3.2

Regards
Bruce

No way

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir.../amend2-04.cfm

applies.

Cheers

Adam

There's way to much to wade through there, but where does it say that you
can't use red and black as long as it's sleeved?

514-03-02 Seems to say that you can - "Every core of a cable shall be
identifiable at its terminations and preferably throughout its length.
Binding and sleeves for identification purposes shall comply with BS 3858
where appropriate"

SteveW

First and second paragraph of

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

and then the links given below those paragraphs.

Cheers

Adam

John Rumm wrote:
On 24/06/2010 18:35, David Robinson wrote:

Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

Nope

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Use it as is...

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

but not in this circumstance!



that's easy, simply crimp a bit of new color on each end of it.

The BCO wont be excavating your walls and ceiling voids.

Invisible Man wrote:

I use the new colour cable for things I am allowed to do and the old
colour cable in the garage is getting used up slowly for other odds and
ends.

.... AKA things you're *not* allowed to do! ;-)

David

Sell the pre-harmonised colour cable on Ebay.
It used to sell very well and at a premium, tick "Completed" to see
what sells, what price, what demand.

Then use harmonised cable, indeed slowly migrate the house if you wish
over the next 20yrs as you redecorate etc.


Personally I think the enforced "must use harmonised" is slightly
irritating when you have lots of old colour pre-existing multi-core.
For example a three way SWA junction box with 5 core Brown Blue Black
White Ge/Ye and then 4 core Red Black Blue Yellow. It would be simpler
to use old colours in this situation.

Beware some nutters thinking pre-harmonised has to be removed, it does
not, a notification label is all that is required.

First and second paragraph of
http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/
and then the links given below those paragraphs.

That says that the new cable colours must be used. It
doesn't say that the cables must be that colour for their
entire length, it repeated says colour identification of
conductors - which could be read as saying that
coloured sleeves at the termination points complies.
Compare with black singles used as a switched live
with red sleeving.

You could note the departure from BS7671 on the
installation completion report.

Beware some nutters thinking pre-harmonised has to be removed,
it does not, a notification label is all that is required.

Print out http://mdfs.net/Docs/Electrical/Colours.htm on sticky
labels.

JGH

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
news:sZOUn.11712$9c1.7134@hurricane...

"BruceB" wrote in message
...


"David Robinson" wrote in message
...
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Yes you can use it.
The requirement is that a cable shall be identifiable at its
terminations..........
So red and black cable correctly sleeved is within the regulations.
514.3.2

Regards
Bruce

No way

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir.../amend2-04.cfm

applies.

Cheers

Adam


With respect Adam I believe you are wrong.
The web links you provided date from and refer to amendments to the previous
version of 7671.
When the latest version was issued it is as I said that the 'terminations'
are the important bit.
This has been discussed before on the IET site, but having just got in I
have not looked up a link.
Regards
Bruce

"jgharston" wrote in message
...
First and second paragraph of
http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/
and then the links given below those paragraphs.

That says that the new cable colours must be used. It
doesn't say that the cables must be that colour for their
entire length, it repeated says colour identification of
conductors - which could be read as saying that
coloured sleeves at the termination points complies.
Compare with black singles used as a switched live
with red sleeving.

You could note the departure from BS7671 on the
installation completion report.

Beware some nutters thinking pre-harmonised has to be removed,
it does not, a notification label is all that is required.

Print out http://mdfs.net/Docs/Electrical/Colours.htm on sticky
labels.

JGH

The only departure from BS7671 that you could put on an installation
certificate where you have used the old colour cables is "I ignored the
BS7671 advice/guidance"


Paragraph 2 of

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

"Only the new colours may be used after 31 March 2006" is pretty clear on
what you you can and cannot use. It does not say "use any colours you want
(including the old ones) and then just sleeve the ends"

Black singles were never allowed with red sleeving as a switched live. They
have been used for that but it was never within the regs.

Cheers

Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
news:Kl7Vn.19124$9c1.3476@hurricane...


Black singles were never allowed with red sleeving as a switched live.
They have been used for that but it was never within the regs.

Actually I believe the were allowed in the 13th edition.

Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:
Black singles were never allowed with red sleeving as a switched live. They
have been used for that but it was never within the regs.

Electrical Installation Certificate:
"blah blah blah ... in accordance with BS 7671, amended to... except
for the
departures, if any, detailed as follows:"

Periodic Inspection Report:
"does not comply with BS 7671 (as amended). This does not imply
that the electrical installation inspected is unsafe"

JGH

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:20:41 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:09:42 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:

"BruceB" wrote in message
...


"David Robinson" wrote in message
...
Can I use up my old reels of 2.5mm red+black on a new install by
sheathing it brown+blue?

"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" etc! ;-)

Will it pass a part-P inspection + test? (required by BCO).

Cheers,
David.

Yes you can use it.
The requirement is that a cable shall be identifiable at its
terminations..........
So red and black cable correctly sleeved is within the regulations.
514.3.2

Regards
Bruce

No way

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir.../amend2-04.cfm

applies.

Cheers

Adam

There's way to much to wade through there, but where does it say that you
can't use red and black as long as it's sleeved?

514-03-02 Seems to say that you can - "Every core of a cable shall be
identifiable at its terminations and preferably throughout its length.
Binding and sleeves for identification purposes shall comply with BS 3858
where appropriate"

SteveW

First and second paragraph of

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

and then the links given below those paragraphs.

Cheers

Adam

But that only states what colours are required, it doesn't say that you
cannot acheive those colours by using brown and blue sleeving over any
other colour.

It's always been acceptable to using sleeving to change the colour of
cores, such as when using red and black (now brown and blue) to wire the
drop to a switch, where the neutral colour should be sleeved as the phase
colour.

The phrase in 514-03-02 "preferably throughout its length" implies that the
cores can indeed be a different colour, as long as they are sleeved at the
ends, otherwise there would be no need for the word "preferably."

SteveW

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:20:41 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:
There's way to much to wade through there, but where does it say that
you
can't use red and black as long as it's sleeved?

514-03-02 Seems to say that you can - "Every core of a cable shall be
identifiable at its terminations and preferably throughout its length.
Binding and sleeves for identification purposes shall comply with BS
3858
where appropriate"

SteveW

First and second paragraph of

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

and then the links given below those paragraphs.

Cheers

Adam

But that only states what colours are required, it doesn't say that you
cannot acheive those colours by using brown and blue sleeving over any
other colour.

It's always been acceptable to using sleeving to change the colour of
cores, such as when using red and black (now brown and blue) to wire the
drop to a switch, where the neutral colour should be sleeved as the phase
colour.

The phrase in 514-03-02 "preferably throughout its length" implies that
the
cores can indeed be a different colour, as long as they are sleeved at the
ends, otherwise there would be no need for the word "preferably."

SteveW

The word preferably is used to allow things such as the blue to be used as a
live in a switch wire. Indeed it is preferable in two way switching NOT to
use a brown/brown/brown cable but instead sleeve the black and grey ends in
brown.

The IET link also says "Only the new colours may be used after 31 March
2006". That can only mean one thing as the first fix will need to be
inspected and the installation will fail that inspection.

Adam

"BruceB" wrote in message
...
No way

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir.../amend2-04.cfm

applies.

Cheers

Adam


With respect Adam I believe you are wrong.
The web links you provided date from and refer to amendments to the
previous version of 7671.
When the latest version was issued it is as I said that the 'terminations'
are the important bit.
This has been discussed before on the IET site, but having just got in I
have not looked up a link.
Regards
Bruce

Quote "The new (harmonised) colour cables may be used on site from 31 March
2004. New installations or alterations to existing installations may use
either new or old colours, but not both, from 31 March 2004 until 31 March
2006. Only the new colours may be used after 31 March 2006"
So if you start a job today and lay red and black cable between two points
then which cable have you "used".

Cheers

Adam

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 10:49:25 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:20:41 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:
There's way to much to wade through there, but where does it say that
you
can't use red and black as long as it's sleeved?

514-03-02 Seems to say that you can - "Every core of a cable shall be
identifiable at its terminations and preferably throughout its length.
Binding and sleeves for identification purposes shall comply with BS
3858
where appropriate"

SteveW

First and second paragraph of

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

and then the links given below those paragraphs.

Cheers

Adam

But that only states what colours are required, it doesn't say that you
cannot acheive those colours by using brown and blue sleeving over any
other colour.

It's always been acceptable to using sleeving to change the colour of
cores, such as when using red and black (now brown and blue) to wire the
drop to a switch, where the neutral colour should be sleeved as the phase
colour.

The phrase in 514-03-02 "preferably throughout its length" implies that
the
cores can indeed be a different colour, as long as they are sleeved at the
ends, otherwise there would be no need for the word "preferably."

SteveW

The word preferably is used to allow things such as the blue to be used as a
live in a switch wire. Indeed it is preferable in two way switching NOT to
use a brown/brown/brown cable but instead sleeve the black and grey ends in
brown.

The IET link also says "Only the new colours may be used after 31 March
2006". That can only mean one thing as the first fix will need to be
inspected and the installation will fail that inspection.

Adam

No, a sleeved core *becomes* the colour of the sleeve - that's the whole
point of sleeving. There would be no reason to fail the inspection, as the
correct colours *have* been used. The fact that the cable was manufactured
as red and black is immaterial, by sleeving the cores, it has become brown
and blue and is entirely within the regulations.

It is certainly possible that some overzelous inspector could cause
problems, but there is no good reason for them to do so.

SteveW

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
news:JaHVn.44203$We4.26410@hurricane...

"BruceB" wrote in message
...
No way

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir.../amend2-04.cfm

applies.

Cheers

Adam


With respect Adam I believe you are wrong.
The web links you provided date from and refer to amendments to the
previous version of 7671.
When the latest version was issued it is as I said that the
'terminations' are the important bit.
This has been discussed before on the IET site, but having just got in I
have not looked up a link.
Regards
Bruce

Quote "The new (harmonised) colour cables may be used on site from 31
March 2004. New installations or alterations to existing installations may
use either new or old colours, but not both, from 31 March 2004 until 31
March 2006. Only the new colours may be used after 31 March 2006"
So if you start a job today and lay red and black cable between two points
then which cable have you "used".

Cheers

Adam


I know your quote, but it is NOT from the regulations.
I prefer my interpretation of the actual regulations.
So we will probably have to agree to disagree.
Regards
Bruce

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 10:49:25 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:20:41 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:
There's way to much to wade through there, but where does it say that
you
can't use red and black as long as it's sleeved?

514-03-02 Seems to say that you can - "Every core of a cable shall be
identifiable at its terminations and preferably throughout its length.
Binding and sleeves for identification purposes shall comply with BS
3858
where appropriate"

SteveW

First and second paragraph of

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

and then the links given below those paragraphs.

Cheers

Adam

But that only states what colours are required, it doesn't say that you
cannot acheive those colours by using brown and blue sleeving over any
other colour.

It's always been acceptable to using sleeving to change the colour of
cores, such as when using red and black (now brown and blue) to wire the
drop to a switch, where the neutral colour should be sleeved as the
phase
colour.

The phrase in 514-03-02 "preferably throughout its length" implies that
the
cores can indeed be a different colour, as long as they are sleeved at
the
ends, otherwise there would be no need for the word "preferably."

SteveW

The word preferably is used to allow things such as the blue to be used
as a
live in a switch wire. Indeed it is preferable in two way switching NOT
to
use a brown/brown/brown cable but instead sleeve the black and grey ends
in
brown.

The IET link also says "Only the new colours may be used after 31 March
2006". That can only mean one thing as the first fix will need to be
inspected and the installation will fail that inspection.

Adam

No, a sleeved core *becomes* the colour of the sleeve - that's the whole
point of sleeving. There would be no reason to fail the inspection, as the
correct colours *have* been used. The fact that the cable was manufactured
as red and black is immaterial, by sleeving the cores, it has become brown
and blue and is entirely within the regulations.

The inspector will not see any brown and blue when he looks at the first
fix.

It is certainly possible that some overzelous inspector could cause
problems, but there is no good reason for them to do so.



"Work commencing on site after 31 March 2006 will be required to comply with
the harmonised cable colours and must not use the old colours." taken from

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...e.cfm?type=pdf

Suggests that if the cable was manufactured as red and black then is not
immaterial.

In the DIY spirit of this group and how most people who post here want to do
things correctly then I suggest that the OP buys the new coloured cable to
cover his arse against a loop hole that may or may not exist (I don't see
one) and that he makes sure that the BCO is happy with his work from the
very start.

We can have a good discussion about it, but I will say that the OP should
not use the old colours. I'll also wager £50 that the electrons never
noticed the difference betwen the old and new colours.

Cheers

Adam

"BruceB" wrote in message
...


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
news:JaHVn.44203$We4.26410@hurricane...

"BruceB" wrote in message
...
No way

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...ations/colour/

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir.../amend2-04.cfm

applies.

Cheers

Adam


With respect Adam I believe you are wrong.
The web links you provided date from and refer to amendments to the
previous version of 7671.
When the latest version was issued it is as I said that the
'terminations' are the important bit.
This has been discussed before on the IET site, but having just got in I
have not looked up a link.
Regards
Bruce

Quote "The new (harmonised) colour cables may be used on site from 31
March 2004. New installations or alterations to existing installations
may use either new or old colours, but not both, from 31 March 2004 until
31 March 2006. Only the new colours may be used after 31 March 2006"
So if you start a job today and lay red and black cable between two
points then which cable have you "used".

Cheers

Adam


I know your quote, but it is NOT from the regulations.
I prefer my interpretation of the actual regulations.
So we will probably have to agree to disagree.
Regards
Bruce

:-) See my post about 20minutes ago to Steve Walker

Cheers

Adam