http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8677933.stm

"Retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs."

Assuming that an energy guesstimate (well, I'd hardly call it an
assessment) cert lasts for several years if not forever, rather than 6
months.

That'll be a few failed hairdressers on the dole then.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On Thu, 13 May 2010 13:45:24 +0100 Tim Watts wrote :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8677933.stm

"Retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs."

From my experience of buying property here, this is a step backwards.
Here, for non auction properties (a lot of homes are sold by auction)
you look at the property - usually at an advertised open for inspection
time - and if you're seriously interested are given a s32, effectively
a HIP with title, planning, covenants, utility info etc. You decide on
what you're prepared to offer (an agent is not allowed to accept offers
unless you've seen the s32), sign a contract - usually conditional on
finance and survey - which you have three days to back out of, which
gives you time to get legal advice.

I bought an investment property in November: looked at it at 2.00, was
reading the s32 at 3.00, back in the agents office to sign the
paperwork at 4.00, and he phoned me back to say the vendor had accepted
and countersigned at 6.00.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.eurobeam.co.uk www.greentram.com

On 13/05/10 14:19, Tony Bryer wrote:
On Thu, 13 May 2010 13:45:24 +0100 Tim Watts wrote :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8677933.stm

"Retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs."

From my experience of buying property here, this is a step backwards.
Here, for non auction properties (a lot of homes are sold by auction)
you look at the property - usually at an advertised open for inspection
time - and if you're seriously interested are given a s32, effectively
a HIP with title, planning, covenants, utility info etc. You decide on
what you're prepared to offer (an agent is not allowed to accept offers
unless you've seen the s32), sign a contract - usually conditional on
finance and survey - which you have three days to back out of, which
gives you time to get legal advice.

I bought an investment property in November: looked at it at 2.00, was
reading the s32 at 3.00, back in the agents office to sign the
paperwork at 4.00, and he phoned me back to say the vendor had accepted
and countersigned at 6.00.


The problems here were 3 fold:

a) The buyer's solicitor considered they had no weight so had to order
all the checks again (as they did before)

b) They expired after 6 months which was stupid, and an obvious money
grabbing exercise for the DEAs

c) I don't think anyone much cared. I read mine when I was trying to
sell. The Land Registry entry was vaguely interesting but you can pull
that online for a fiver. The utlities info was next to useless. I think
most people assume the seller has title otherwise he's going to look
fairly stupid when the solictor finds otherwise and it will be checked
anyway.

The EA is next to worthless too. That is obviously a concession to the
greens, but if they must, that should be made more rigorous (as in the
DEA actually has to look in the loft!). And the data will never change
unless works are undertaken, in which case it's in the interests of the
seller to redo it as most changes are for the better. I don't know of
anyone who buys a house on the strength of an EA either - and neither
did the Estate Agent.

I agree, in an auction having this data on hand would be useful, but
most houses here are sold in the normal way and my eyeballs and a chat
with the seller tell me more than the HIP ever did. And I did pull a
Land Registry file for one place because it takes minutes and is cheap.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 13 May, 13:45, Tim Watts wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8677933.stm

"Retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs."

Assuming that an energy guesstimate (well, I'd hardly call it an
assessment) cert lasts for several years if not forever, rather than 6
months.

That'll be a few failed hairdressers on the dole then.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

The TV news was talking about a cancelling act for a lot of Labours
nonsense this morning. Strikes me its time for everyone to write to
their MP asking for part P to be cancelled as part of the same
process.
It has descended into a reason for NICEICs continued existence (along
with a few other organisations), a reason for LAs to empoy more staff,
and has resulted in the now famous increase not decrease in accidents.
All of which were forecast by most reasonable people in this group
when it was first mooted. Prescott should have simply shut the door on
the promoters but was too full of s**t to see past his nose.

On 13/05/10 17:47, cynic wrote:
On 13 May, 13:45, Tim wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8677933.stm

"Retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs."

Assuming that an energy guesstimate (well, I'd hardly call it an
assessment) cert lasts for several years if not forever, rather than 6
months.

That'll be a few failed hairdressers on the dole then.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

The TV news was talking about a cancelling act for a lot of Labours
nonsense this morning. Strikes me its time for everyone to write to
their MP asking for part P to be cancelled as part of the same
process.
It has descended into a reason for NICEICs continued existence (along
with a few other organisations), a reason for LAs to empoy more staff,
and has resulted in the now famous increase not decrease in accidents.
All of which were forecast by most reasonable people in this group
when it was first mooted. Prescott should have simply shut the door on
the promoters but was too full of s**t to see past his nose.

And Part L, and that silly bit about driveways (or is that planning?)

What they *could* do for Part P is to amend the rules so that "not for
reward" is written in as an exception aka Gas regs/GasSafe - which would
keep the trade clean (excepting the fact that NICEIC don't seem to be
able to do their job - at least CORGI cared when I grassed up one of
their fitters).

Perhaps our resident NIC member (or members) might comment on how he
feels from the pro side?

And Part L should only be applicable for new builds, including
extensions as generally you have the LABC involved anyway so it's not an
extra hassle.

Certainly there needs to be non applicability to DIY or TMH popping a
new window in for someone.

I shall certainly try to write something for my (Tory) MP. If I manage,
I'll post the draft here for comment so I can get a decently worded
letter with the facts straight. Likewise if anyone else does so first,
perhaps they'd be kind enough to post their letter here as a modal
template for everyone else to nick. If everyone here who cares wrote,
that would cover a lot of MPs.

I should ask my BCO if they plan to attack from their end (I'm fairly
sure mine thinks Part L and Part P are a load of ******** by what he said).

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Tim Watts
wrote:

I shall certainly try to write something for my (Tory) MP. If I
manage, I'll post the draft here for comment so I can get a decently
worded letter with the facts straight. Likewise if anyone else does so
first,
perhaps they'd be kind enough to post their letter here as a modal
template for everyone else to nick. If everyone here who cares wrote,
that would cover a lot of MPs.


That's a good idea! I'll happily send a copy to my new (Tory) MP if someone
provides a draft.
--
Cheers,
Roger
_______
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8677933.stm

"Retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs."

Assuming that an energy guesstimate (well, I'd hardly call it an
assessment) cert lasts for several years if not forever, rather than 6
months.

That'll be a few failed hairdressers on the dole then.

Strangely, I got a letter from the council today saying my house has
been picked as part of a random selection of homes across the area
to have a survey on the condition of the house. There will also be an
assessment of energy performance. Not sure if I will be given any of
the information. The council only gets statistical information, which
doesn't identify any particular house.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Thu, 13 May 2010 20:08:44 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8677933.stm

"Retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs."

Assuming that an energy guesstimate (well, I'd hardly call it an
assessment) cert lasts for several years if not forever, rather than 6
months.

That'll be a few failed hairdressers on the dole then.

Strangely, I got a letter from the council today saying my house has
been picked as part of a random selection of homes across the area to
have a survey on the condition of the house. There will also be an
assessment of energy performance. Not sure if I will be given any of the
information. The council only gets statistical information, which
doesn't identify any particular house.

I got one a while ago. I rejected the 'offer'.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 13/05/10 21:30, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 13 May 2010 20:08:44 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In ,
Tim writes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8677933.stm

"Retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs."

Assuming that an energy guesstimate (well, I'd hardly call it an
assessment) cert lasts for several years if not forever, rather than 6
months.

That'll be a few failed hairdressers on the dole then.

Strangely, I got a letter from the council today saying my house has
been picked as part of a random selection of homes across the area to
have a survey on the condition of the house. There will also be an
assessment of energy performance. Not sure if I will be given any of the
information. The council only gets statistical information, which
doesn't identify any particular house.

I got one a while ago. I rejected the 'offer'.


You should have said: "Is the officer female and fit? If so, I warmly
welcome her to come and assess my energy. She can start by surveying the
bedroom ceiling."


--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

cynic wrote:
On 13 May, 13:45, Tim Watts wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8677933.stm

"Retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs."

Assuming that an energy guesstimate (well, I'd hardly call it an
assessment) cert lasts for several years if not forever, rather than 6
months.

That'll be a few failed hairdressers on the dole then.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

The TV news was talking about a cancelling act for a lot of Labours
nonsense this morning. Strikes me its time for everyone to write to
their MP asking for part P to be cancelled as part of the same
process.
It has descended into a reason for NICEICs continued existence (along
with a few other organisations), a reason for LAs to empoy more staff,
and has resulted in the now famous increase not decrease in accidents.
All of which were forecast by most reasonable people in this group
when it was first mooted. Prescott should have simply shut the door on
the promoters but was too full of s**t to see past his nose.

When I spoke to a Tory MP a few years back and asked him how many laws
he might repeal '100 a week: just watch us' was the jovial reply.

I think there is going to be a stripping out of legislation the like of
which has never been seen.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 13/05/10 17:47, cynic wrote:
On 13 May, 13:45, Tim wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8677933.stm

"Retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs."

Assuming that an energy guesstimate (well, I'd hardly call it an
assessment) cert lasts for several years if not forever, rather than 6
months.

That'll be a few failed hairdressers on the dole then.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

The TV news was talking about a cancelling act for a lot of Labours
nonsense this morning. Strikes me its time for everyone to write to
their MP asking for part P to be cancelled as part of the same
process.
It has descended into a reason for NICEICs continued existence (along
with a few other organisations), a reason for LAs to empoy more staff,
and has resulted in the now famous increase not decrease in accidents.
All of which were forecast by most reasonable people in this group
when it was first mooted. Prescott should have simply shut the door on
the promoters but was too full of s**t to see past his nose.

And Part L, and that silly bit about driveways (or is that planning?)

What they *could* do for Part P is to amend the rules so that "not for
reward" is written in as an exception aka Gas regs/GasSafe - which would
keep the trade clean (excepting the fact that NICEIC don't seem to be able
to do their job - at least CORGI cared when I grassed up one of their
fitters).


Part P is misunderstood by Joe Public. Those that have heard of it think
that you need a certificate to change a light fiting or swap an electric
cooker, but I suspect that at least over half of the population have no idea
that part P exists. I do not believe that Part P generated any more work for
me (apart from the paper work) and has not altered the quality of the work I
do.

I have seen nightmare electrical installs by both DIYers and NICEIC
electricians. I have also seen very good installations by both.

Part P never stopped the DIY bodger, but there are cases of the NICEIC
removing members for bad workmanship.


Perhaps our resident NIC member (or members) might comment on how he
feels from the pro side?

Would it be Part L that the BCO and my brother laughed about?. The BCO
pointed out that my brothers extension had no low energy light fittings
installed. My Brother's reply was priceless "I know, my brother did the
electrics and he is using all of his low energy fittings at the moment for
another building inspection in Doncaster, as soon as that has passed he will
fit them in my extension" The BCO was not bothered as he loved the
smoke/heat alarm setup and the fact that a new A rated boiler had been
fitted.

I would go with the suggestion that

What they *could* do for Part P is to amend the rules so that "not for
reward" is written in as an exception aka Gas regs/GasSafe - which would
keep the trade clean

That would stop a kitchen fitter messing things up for a paying customer and
who cares if a DIYer decides to wire an electric shower from the immersion.


Adam

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

When I spoke to a Tory MP a few years back and asked him how many laws
he might repeal '100 a week: just watch us' was the jovial reply.

I think there is going to be a stripping out of legislation the like of
which has never been seen.

I suspect there will be lot of, "Yes Minister, but..." moments. The
Civil Service empire builders won't like being reduced in numbers.

On May 13, 7:23*pm, "Roger Mills" wrote:.

That's a good idea! I'll happily send a copy to my new (Tory) MP if someone
provides a draft.
Likewise I will send a copy to my lib dem MP. They should all be
singing to the same tune now, right?

Dave.