Introduced by the Australian govt last year as part of an economic
stimulant package that could also save the planet, homeowners there
were offered a $1600 max rebate on the installation of loft
insulation. This was not for the DIY brigade, as it was only done
following quotes from govt approved contractors.

Unfortunately, the scheme came to an untimely end when, after a few
months the government suspended the Home Insulation Program after it
was linked to the deaths of four installers, 120 house fires, and
thousands of safety and quality problems.

It would appear that Australian houses (mainly bungalows) frequently
have badly insulated wiring in their loft space. Also, their
fusing/protection systems are often ineffective. This, and the fact
that some of the insulation packs were metal foil wrapped, had
resulted in many electrical short circuits.

Oh well, it seemed such a good idea at the time to the politicians...!

http://www.smh.com.au/national/abbot...0405-rmqh.html

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember David J
saying something like:

Oh well, it seemed such a good idea at the time to the politicians...!

http://www.smh.com.au/national/abbot...0405-rmqh.html

Bloody hell, he must have been an ugly bird.
http://media.smh.com.au/national/bre...o-1295135.html

In article ,
David J writes:
Introduced by the Australian govt last year as part of an economic
stimulant package that could also save the planet, homeowners there
were offered a $1600 max rebate on the installation of loft
insulation. This was not for the DIY brigade, as it was only done
following quotes from govt approved contractors.

Unfortunately, the scheme came to an untimely end when, after a few
months the government suspended the Home Insulation Program after it
was linked to the deaths of four installers, 120 house fires, and
thousands of safety and quality problems.

It would appear that Australian houses (mainly bungalows) frequently
have badly insulated wiring in their loft space. Also, their
fusing/protection systems are often ineffective. This, and the fact
that some of the insulation packs were metal foil wrapped, had
resulted in many electrical short circuits.

Ancient wiring is a result of restrictive laws which prevent
electrical work other than by certified bodies. The result is
that wiring that should have been replaced years ago is still
in service. This is common with countries which introduce such
laws in the misguided belief that uncertified electrical work
causes fires, whereas it's actually electrical installations
which don't get worked on which cause fires, and you end up
with very much more of that when you restrict who can do
electrical work.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 17:37:11 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Ancient wiring is a result of restrictive laws which prevent electrical
work other than by certified bodies. The result is that wiring that
should have been replaced years ago is still in service. This is common
with countries which introduce such laws in the misguided belief that
uncertified electrical work causes fires, whereas it's actually
electrical installations which don't get worked on which cause fires,
and you end up with very much more of that when you restrict who can do
electrical work.

There's certainly some truth in that - I really want to re-wire the
lighting in our place (northern US) as what's in there now is ancient
but the fact that I need to buy a permit and then pay an inspector to
sign off on it once it's all done keeps putting me off. If I didn't need
the permit, and only had to have the inspection done if/when we move, I
would have done the work a long time ago.

As it stands, I've got some new lighting I want to put in downstairs and
other misc electrical projects, so hopefully I can queue things up and at
least do it all on the same permit/inspection.

cheers

Jules

Jules Richardson
wibbled on Wednesday 07 April 2010 19:01

On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 17:37:11 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Ancient wiring is a result of restrictive laws which prevent electrical
work other than by certified bodies. The result is that wiring that
should have been replaced years ago is still in service. This is common
with countries which introduce such laws in the misguided belief that
uncertified electrical work causes fires, whereas it's actually
electrical installations which don't get worked on which cause fires,
and you end up with very much more of that when you restrict who can do
electrical work.

There's certainly some truth in that - I really want to re-wire the
lighting in our place (northern US) as what's in there now is ancient
but the fact that I need to buy a permit and then pay an inspector to
sign off on it once it's all done keeps putting me off. If I didn't need
the permit, and only had to have the inspection done if/when we move, I
would have done the work a long time ago.

How much is a permit? What happens if you ignore the law *and* they notice?

As it stands, I've got some new lighting I want to put in downstairs and
other misc electrical projects, so hopefully I can queue things up and at
least do it all on the same permit/inspection.

At least in the UK, you can write out a totally open ended BNA and keep
working to it, ostensibly forever, or at least until the IEE 18th Ed
assuming you want to get your current work signed off...

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On Apr 7, 7:11*pm, Tim Watts wrote:
At least in the UK, you can write out a totally open ended BNA and keep
working to it, ostensibly forever, or at least until the IEE 18th Ed
assuming you want to get your current work signed off...

Under SI2006 the only thing you can't do is add a new final circuit or
add a new crossing to a garden.

You can maintain anything such as replace SWA crossing a garden (twist
cable beneath outside glands to check armour ok), replace a CU
enclosure if holes damaged/too big re IPx4/IPx2 rating, replace a
single circuit (or as many as you like since there is no time limit
specified, ie, years), replace a backbox in a kitchen or anywhere else
re maintenance, you can replace everything in a shed, garage or porch.
You can not install a new shower or new cooker or new garden crossing.
You can have a cable enter a new light at the rear, but not an outside
socket (since it may cross a garden, just like an extension lead
plugged indoors into a non-RCD circuit.

I thought Australia had learnt from the dead baby incident, despite
attempts to block global FOI requests, but evidentally from roofing to
wiring it is more interested in a centrally planned economy.
Australian insurers will pay you to go to NZ rather than rent whilst
they get enough Certified people to rebuild your house if it burns
down.

js.b1
wibbled on Wednesday 07 April 2010 19:45

On Apr 7, 7:11 pm, Tim Watts wrote:
At least in the UK, you can write out a totally open ended BNA and keep
working to it, ostensibly forever, or at least until the IEE 18th Ed
assuming you want to get your current work signed off...

Under SI2006 the only thing you can't do is add a new final circuit or
add a new crossing to a garden.
You can maintain anything such as replace SWA crossing a garden (twist
cable beneath outside glands to check armour ok), replace a CU
enclosure if holes damaged/too big re IPx4/IPx2 rating, replace a
single circuit (or as many as you like since there is no time limit
specified, ie, years), replace a backbox in a kitchen or anywhere else
re maintenance, you can replace everything in a shed, garage or porch.
You can not install a new shower or new cooker or new garden crossing.
You can have a cable enter a new light at the rear, but not an outside
socket (since it may cross a garden, just like an extension lead
plugged indoors into a non-RCD circuit.

I thought Australia had learnt from the dead baby incident, despite
attempts to block global FOI requests, but evidentally from roofing to
wiring it is more interested in a centrally planned economy.
Australian insurers will pay you to go to NZ rather than rent whilst
they get enough Certified people to rebuild your house if it burns
down.

Learn? Hmm, alien concept I fear...

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 16:56:20 +0100 David J wrote :
Introduced by the Australian govt last year as part of an economic
stimulant package that could also save the planet, homeowners there
were offered a $1600 max rebate on the installation of loft
insulation. This was not for the DIY brigade, as it was only done
following quotes from govt approved contractors.

Unfortunately, the scheme came to an untimely end when, after a few
months the government suspended the Home Insulation Program after it
was linked to the deaths of four installers, 120 house fires, and
thousands of safety and quality problems.

It would appear that Australian houses (mainly bungalows) frequently
have badly insulated wiring in their loft space. Also, their
fusing/protection systems are often ineffective. This, and the fact
that some of the insulation packs were metal foil wrapped, had
resulted in many electrical short circuits.

Oh well, it seemed such a good idea at the time to the politicians...!

Yes, our government has taken a lot of flack over this, including one
resignation. The fires are mainly due to insulation being placed over
concealed downlighters and the electrocutions to foil faced insulation
being stapled through cables (you do have to wonder ...). Personally I
would like to have heard a little less criticism of politicians and a
bit more of the scammers who saw this a licence to print money, using
substandard materials in some cases, and untrained and unsupervised
operatives.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

On 8 Apr, 01:44, Tony Bryer wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 16:56:20 +0100 David J wrote :





Introduced by the Australian govt last year as part of an economic
stimulant package that could also save the planet, homeowners there
were offered a $1600 max rebate on the installation of loft
insulation. This was not for the DIY brigade, as it was only done
following quotes from govt approved contractors.

Unfortunately, the scheme came to an untimely end when, after a few
months the government suspended the Home Insulation Program after it
was linked to the deaths of four installers, 120 house fires, and
thousands of safety and quality problems.

It would appear that Australian houses (mainly bungalows) frequently
have badly insulated wiring in their loft space. Also, their
fusing/protection systems are often ineffective. This, and the fact
that some of the insulation packs were metal foil wrapped, had
resulted in many electrical short circuits.

Oh well, it seemed such a good idea at the time to the politicians...!

Yes, our government has taken a lot of flack over this, including one
resignation. The fires are mainly due to insulation being placed over
concealed downlighters and the electrocutions to foil faced insulation
being stapled through cables (you do have to wonder ...). Personally I
would like to have heard a little less criticism of politicians and a
bit more of the scammers who saw this a licence to print money, using
substandard materials in some cases, and untrained and unsupervised
operatives.

It's a job for burglars. And poetic that in Yngland, ye home of
Privateering, Wyndesore Castyle waf burned downe bye ye untrained
maffef.

Next stop: Parliamentable.
Fat chance.

But one hopeth eternal.

In article ,
Tony Bryer writes:

Yes, our government has taken a lot of flack over this, including one
resignation. The fires are mainly due to insulation being placed over
concealed downlighters and the electrocutions to foil faced insulation
being stapled through cables (you do have to wonder ...). Personally I
would like to have heard a little less criticism of politicians and a
bit more of the scammers who saw this a licence to print money, using
substandard materials in some cases, and untrained and unsupervised
operatives.

I listened to a radio program here about the various green initiatives
we've had in the UK.

To start with there was the mass mailing out of CFL's by the energy
companies. They estimated 80% of these had been used, but the actual
number turns out to be nearer 10%. Well, they were credited on their
estimate, and not on reality, due to government incompitence in
drawing up the rules. This was such a scam the government banned it
in January, but that gave one of the suppliers just enough warning
to mail out many millions more CFL's and earn credits (at the assumed
80% level again).

Then there's the loft insulation game. Two initiatives here - loft
insulation subsidised up to 70% in DIY outlets for DIY install, and
grants available for companies to install. So government looks at
these and says we now have x extra DIY installs, y extra professional
installs, x + y = z total new loft insulations. Well that didn't
happen - the professional installers all went and bought the subsidised
loft insulation from Wickes, B&Q, etc, and pocketed the subsidy, which
is a large wad of cash earmarked for home insulating which has gone
straight into installers' pockets to insulate their hips...
Again, the energy companies are given full credit for z, whilst they
can happily continue to sell excess fuel because z didn't happen.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tony Bryer writes:

Yes, our government has taken a lot of flack over this, including one
resignation. The fires are mainly due to insulation being placed over
concealed downlighters and the electrocutions to foil faced insulation
being stapled through cables (you do have to wonder ...). Personally I
would like to have heard a little less criticism of politicians and a
bit more of the scammers who saw this a licence to print money, using
substandard materials in some cases, and untrained and unsupervised
operatives.

I listened to a radio program here about the various green initiatives
we've had in the UK.

To start with there was the mass mailing out of CFL's by the energy
companies. They estimated 80% of these had been used, but the actual
number turns out to be nearer 10%. Well, they were credited on their
estimate, and not on reality, due to government incompitence in
drawing up the rules. This was such a scam the government banned it
in January, but that gave one of the suppliers just enough warning
to mail out many millions more CFL's and earn credits (at the assumed
80% level again).

Had the energy companies mailed out CFLs in sizes larger than 9 and 11w then
more of people would have used them. For many people this was their first
experience of CFLs and it did not give them a good first impression.

Then there's the loft insulation game. Two initiatives here - loft
insulation subsidised up to 70% in DIY outlets for DIY install, and
grants available for companies to install. So government looks at
these and says we now have x extra DIY installs, y extra professional
installs, x + y = z total new loft insulations. Well that didn't
happen - the professional installers all went and bought the subsidised
loft insulation from Wickes, B&Q, etc, and pocketed the subsidy, which
is a large wad of cash earmarked for home insulating which has gone
straight into installers' pockets to insulate their hips...
Again, the energy companies are given full credit for z, whilst they
can happily continue to sell excess fuel because z didn't happen.

Indeed, my brothers DIY extension benefited from a Wikes special on loft
insulation, so no carbon offsetting there.

Adam

David J wrote:
Introduced by the Australian govt last year as part of an economic
stimulant package that could also save the planet, homeowners there
were offered a $1600 max rebate on the installation of loft
insulation. This was not for the DIY brigade, as it was only done
following quotes from govt approved contractors.

Unfortunately, the scheme came to an untimely end when, after a few
months the government suspended the Home Insulation Program after it
was linked to the deaths of four installers, 120 house fires, and
thousands of safety and quality problems.

It would appear that Australian houses (mainly bungalows) frequently
have badly insulated wiring in their loft space. Also, their
fusing/protection systems are often ineffective. This, and the fact
that some of the insulation packs were metal foil wrapped, had
resulted in many electrical short circuits.

The problem is not as you suggest, The reasons were mainly dills of
installers. Some of the insulation was foil backed and installers were
using metal staples and puncturing wiring,also covering lighting
fixtures causing fires, they did not all have bad wiring.

Oh well, it seemed such a good idea at the time to the politicians...!

http://www.smh.com.au/national/abbot...0405-rmqh.html