Some of you offered some helpful advice on my recent home-made garage
door question. After reading some of the responses, and chewing it over,
I decided to make the doors out of timber instead of WBP ply. I purchased
tongue & grooved redwood floorboarding (22mm x 135mm) to be exact. I also
got some 5" x 1" planed whitewood for the bracing. For the bracing' I'm
thinking three equally-spaced horizontals with diagonals in-between. I am
planning to have no vertical bracing at the edges, as the tongu+grooved
timber is nearly an inch thick, and seems very rigid, If the doors seem
too flexible after they are constructed, I can always add vertcals later.

Before I assemble the doors, I could do with some advice on joining and
finishing. I've ourchased waterproof wood glue, thinking I should glue
the grooves before tapping in the tongues, I assum this is correct?

To fix the bracing, will zink plated wood screws will do, and should also
use waterproof glue?

As for finishing, I'd like the fnished doors to look as decent quality as
possible, so they'll hopefully add value to the property (if that's
possible using the relatively cheap softwood..). I imagne there are a
number of options. As I like the look of wood, especially if it were
stained to look more like hardwood or a redder form of redwood, would
something like a coloured preservative be OK (such as tge Cuprinol stuff
sold in B&Q for sheds and fences) , or is regular oil-based paint (and
lots of it) going to the greatest longevity and the least need for
repainting in years to come?

How about the door frame, which buts up to the concrete blockwork? Should
I apply preservative before painting. Or, again, will a tinted
preservative do?



Many thanks,

AL

Al 1953 wrote:

Engage Father Jack Mode....

Before I assemble the doors, I could do with some advice on joining and
finishing. I've ourchased waterproof wood glue, thinking I should glue
the grooves before tapping in the tongues, I assum this is correct?

YESH!

To fix the bracing, will zink plated wood screws will do, and should also
use waterproof glue?

YESH!

As for finishing, I'd like the fnished doors to look as decent quality as
possible, so they'll hopefully add value to the property (if that's
possible using the relatively cheap softwood..). I imagne there are a
number of options. As I like the look of wood, especially if it were
stained to look more like hardwood or a redder form of redwood, would
something like a coloured preservative be OK (such as tge Cuprinol stuff
sold in B&Q for sheds and fences) , or is regular oil-based paint (and
lots of it) going to the greatest longevity and the least need for
repainting in years to come?

YESH!

How about the door frame, which buts up to the concrete blockwork? Should
I apply preservative before painting. Or, again, will a tinted
preservative do?

YESH!


Good luck, Al - sounds like it will be a smart job.

Steve Walker wrote:

Al 1953 wrote:

Engage Father Jack Mode....

Before I assemble the doors, I could do with some advice on joining and
finishing. I've ourchased waterproof wood glue, thinking I should glue
the grooves before tapping in the tongues, I assum this is correct?

YESH!

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. If using T&G I wouldn't glue the tongues
because te wood is going to move and it's probably best if it's as free
as possible to do so. If glue is used the wood may split.

I made a wooden garage door using similar materials a few years ago. It
still looks good. It was nailed rather than glued.

Steve Walker wrote:
Al 1953 wrote:

Engage Father Jack Mode....

Before I assemble the doors, I could do with some advice on joining
and finishing. I've ourchased waterproof wood glue, thinking I
should glue the grooves before tapping in the tongues, I assum this
is correct?

YESH!

No, that will cause problems with natural movement - which will be taken up
by the T&G design of the board. Simply nail the boards to the fram using
oval head rust-proof nails, punched in and filled.

To fix the bracing, will zink plated wood screws will do, and should
also use waterproof glue?

YESH!

A bit of over-kill using screws, nails will do, as the board will be nailed
to the braces as well. and the downward pressure of the outside edge of the
door will tighten everything up.

Also make sure that the braces are no 'flatter' than 45 degrees and point
'upwards' from the hanging side to the slamming side. If they are placed
the other way around, they will be useless as a brace, and you may as well
leave them out - as the door will drop anyway.

As for finishing, I'd like the fnished doors to look as decent
quality as possible, so they'll hopefully add value to the property
(if that's possible using the relatively cheap softwood..). I imagne
there are a number of options. As I like the look of wood,
especially if it were stained to look more like hardwood or a redder
form of redwood, would something like a coloured preservative be OK
(such as tge Cuprinol stuff sold in B&Q for sheds and fences) , or
is regular oil-based paint (and lots of it) going to the greatest
longevity and the least need for repainting in years to come?

YESH!

"YESH!" - is not quite true - as untanalised, cheap, fourth of fifth grade
timber will not last more than around ten years (and rot will set in long
before that).

How about the door frame, which buts up to the concrete blockwork?
Should I apply preservative before painting. Or, again, will a tinted
preservative do?

YESH!

Give the frame a chance and give it five coats of good quality paint (rather
than 'tinted preservative) [1] - and also keep the frame about 20mm up off
the floor to prevent the end grain (probably untreated anyway) from 'sucking
up' rain water off the floor.

[1] Prepare the timber properly and give it the following:

1 - Coat of aluminium base primer (or similar)
2 - Coats of oil based undercoat
2 - coats of oil based gloss

Rubbing down lightly between each coat - and this 'should' delay the onset
of early rot.

Cash

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:35:01 +0000 (UTC), Al 1953 wrote:

I purchased tongue & grooved redwood floorboarding (22mm x 135mm) to be
exact.

Yipes, I hope you've thought about the weight and the hinges to
support them...

For the bracing' I'm thinking three equally-spaced horizontals with
diagonals in-between. I am planning to have no vertical bracing at the
edges, as the tongu+grooved timber is nearly an inch thick, and seems
very rigid,

My gut feeling is that won't work, or not work as well as diagonal
across the corners of a box. I can't pin down why I feel it won't
work, other than "no triangle". I could be wrong, the fact that you
have 3/4" boards might be enough but they will slide past each other.

I can always add vertcals later.

The horizontals really need to be mortised into the verticals and
possibly the diagonal braces jointed in as well.

thinking I should glue the grooves before tapping in the tongues, I
assum this is correct?

I wouldn't the boards will want move and if glued they can't. I
wouldn't be surprised to see 1/4" variation across the width of each
of those boards between the "wet" and "dry" states of the timber.

To fix the bracing, will zink plated wood screws will do,

If you can get good quality zinc plated yes but screws vary immensely
in the quality of the plating and in the steel. Brass or stainless
might be a better choice. I don't use anything but brass, stainless
or hot dipped clouts outside up here. Steel screws or nails just
doen't last.

As I like the look of wood, especially if it were stained to look more
like hardwood or a redder form of redwood, would something like a
coloured preservative be OK (such as tge Cuprinol stuff sold in B&Q for sheds and fences) ,

Be careful of shed/fence stuff, some is designed to work on rough
sawn timber and doesn't adhere to planed at all well.

or is regular oil-based paint (and lots of it) going to the greatest
longevity and the least need for repainting in years to come?

The full preservative, prime, undercoat, gloss system works very
well. We have some Dulux Weathershield (Ithink) that has been on a
south facing window frame for the best part of ten years. Where it
was thin on the beading it's come away but on the solid timber of the
frmaes it is still in good sound condition. Trouble is as bit's have
failed it all needs taking right back and redoing...

Take a look at (some of) the Sikens range, these weather but you just
lightly rub down and slap another coat on, not taking right back and
starting again.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Cash" wrote:

Also make sure that the braces are no 'flatter' than 45 degrees and point
'upwards' from the hanging side to the slamming side. If they are placed
the other way around, they will be useless as a brace, and you may as well
leave them out - as the door will drop anyway.

Am I not the only person who can't help but notice braces which
are not?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:35:01 +0000 (UTC), Al 1953 wrote:

I purchased tongue & grooved redwood floorboarding (22mm x 135mm) to be
exact.

Yipes, I hope you've thought about the weight and the hinges to
support them...

For the bracing' I'm thinking three equally-spaced horizontals with
diagonals in-between. I am planning to have no vertical bracing at the
edges, as the tongu+grooved timber is nearly an inch thick, and seems
very rigid,

My gut feeling is that won't work, or not work as well as diagonal
across the corners of a box. I can't pin down why I feel it won't
work, other than "no triangle". I could be wrong, the fact that you
have 3/4" boards might be enough but they will slide past each other.

I can always add vertcals later.

The horizontals really need to be mortised into the verticals and
possibly the diagonal braces jointed in as well.

thinking I should glue the grooves before tapping in the tongues, I
assum this is correct?

I wouldn't the boards will want move and if glued they can't. I
wouldn't be surprised to see 1/4" variation across the width of each
of those boards between the "wet" and "dry" states of the timber.

To fix the bracing, will zink plated wood screws will do,

If you can get good quality zinc plated yes but screws vary immensely
in the quality of the plating and in the steel. Brass or stainless
might be a better choice. I don't use anything but brass, stainless
or hot dipped clouts outside up here. Steel screws or nails just
doen't last.

As I like the look of wood, especially if it were stained to look more
like hardwood or a redder form of redwood, would something like a
coloured preservative be OK (such as tge Cuprinol stuff sold in B&Q for sheds and fences) ,

Be careful of shed/fence stuff, some is designed to work on rough
sawn timber and doesn't adhere to planed at all well.

or is regular oil-based paint (and lots of it) going to the greatest
longevity and the least need for repainting in years to come?

The full preservative, prime, undercoat, gloss system works very
well. We have some Dulux Weathershield (Ithink) that has been on a
south facing window frame for the best part of ten years. Where it
was thin on the beading it's come away but on the solid timber of the
frmaes it is still in good sound condition. Trouble is as bit's have
failed it all needs taking right back and redoing...

Take a look at (some of) the Sikens range, these weather but you just
lightly rub down and slap another coat on, not taking right back and
starting again.


The weak point rot-wise will probably be the grooves between the boards
on the lower part of the doors. Water finds its way into the t&g joints
where it can't easily evaporate.
There is *something* to be said for coating all the components in wood
hardener before assembly, including the individual tongues and grooves,
although the colour would need to be established beforehand. It
effectively applies a thin film of hard plastic. I've done this
successfully on window sills, but never tried it on anything bigger.
The movement of the wood shouldn't be significant unless it cops the
midday sun (whatever that is). Joinery grade redwood is normally
supplied at 17% average moisture content and rarely dries beyond 15%
outdoors, which equates to a shrinkage of around half a percent across
the width. How quickly it responds to changes in the weather depends on
the quality of the timber. IME dense, close-grained (expensive) stuff
doesn't move about with every little change in the weather, but will
tend to tune into the average ambient conditions over 6 months or so.

Am I not the only person who can't help but notice braces which
are not?

It's not uncommon to see commercially-made ledged and braced doors
subsequently fitted the wrong way round.

Some supply the brace loose (haven't seen this for a long time), some
supply specific left and right hand doors, and more commonly now
universal fitments with the upper and lower braces coming to an
arrowhead point on the centre rail - so one of them has to be the
right way round.

The braces should also be let slightly into the rails.

How wide are these garage doors?

Ledged and braced may tend to drop/lack rigidity - framed ledges and
braced is much better, although quite a bit more work.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in
ll.co.uk:

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:35:01 +0000 (UTC), Al 1953 wrote:

I purchased tongue & grooved redwood floorboarding (22mm x 135mm) to
be exact.

Yipes, I hope you've thought about the weight and the hinges to
support them...

Well, I bought four very hefty galvanised hinges costing £17 a pair. I'm
more concerned about the strength of the framme and its attachment to the
wall than anything. I've used 120mm hammer fixings ( 4 per vertical). I
now wish I'd applied preservative to all faces before fixing, but too
late now.

For the bracing' I'm thinking three equally-spaced horizontals with
diagonals in-between. I am planning to have no vertical bracing at
the edges, as the tongu+grooved timber is nearly an inch thick, and
seems very rigid,

My gut feeling is that won't work, or not work as well as diagonal
across the corners of a box. I can't pin down why I feel it won't
work, other than "no triangle". I could be wrong, the fact that you
have 3/4" boards might be enough but they will slide past each other.

Now I understand bracing better, I'm thinking maybe have the braces
parallel, like this:

http://shedbuilder.info/How-To-Build-A-Shed-Door.html

No jambs/verticals in that design either.

I wouldn't the boards will want move and if glued they can't. I
wouldn't be surprised to see 1/4" variation across the width of each
of those boards between the "wet" and "dry" states of the timber.

I've since read that priming the tongues and grooves prior to assembly is
considered sensible. Thanks to you, and all others, for the other
suggestions and advice.

Al

stuart noble wrote in
:

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:35:01 +0000 (UTC), Al 1953 wrote:

I purchased tongue & grooved redwood floorboarding (22mm x 135mm) to
be exact.

Yipes, I hope you've thought about the weight and the hinges to
support them...

For the bracing' I'm thinking three equally-spaced horizontals with
diagonals in-between. I am planning to have no vertical bracing at
the edges, as the tongu+grooved timber is nearly an inch thick, and
seems very rigid,

My gut feeling is that won't work, or not work as well as diagonal
across the corners of a box. I can't pin down why I feel it won't
work, other than "no triangle". I could be wrong, the fact that you
have 3/4" boards might be enough but they will slide past each other.

I can always add vertcals later.

The horizontals really need to be mortised into the verticals and
possibly the diagonal braces jointed in as well.

thinking I should glue the grooves before tapping in the tongues, I
assum this is correct?

I wouldn't the boards will want move and if glued they can't. I
wouldn't be surprised to see 1/4" variation across the width of each
of those boards between the "wet" and "dry" states of the timber.

To fix the bracing, will zink plated wood screws will do,

If you can get good quality zinc plated yes but screws vary immensely
in the quality of the plating and in the steel. Brass or stainless
might be a better choice. I don't use anything but brass, stainless
or hot dipped clouts outside up here. Steel screws or nails just
doen't last.

As I like the look of wood, especially if it were stained to look
more like hardwood or a redder form of redwood, would something like
a coloured preservative be OK (such as tge Cuprinol stuff sold in
B&Q for sheds and fences) ,

Be careful of shed/fence stuff, some is designed to work on rough
sawn timber and doesn't adhere to planed at all well.

or is regular oil-based paint (and lots of it) going to the greatest
longevity and the least need for repainting in years to come?

The full preservative, prime, undercoat, gloss system works very
well. We have some Dulux Weathershield (Ithink) that has been on a
south facing window frame for the best part of ten years. Where it
was thin on the beading it's come away but on the solid timber of the
frmaes it is still in good sound condition. Trouble is as bit's have
failed it all needs taking right back and redoing...

Take a look at (some of) the Sikens range, these weather but you just
lightly rub down and slap another coat on, not taking right back and
starting again.


The weak point rot-wise will probably be the grooves between the
boards on the lower part of the doors. Water finds its way into the
t&g joints where it can't easily evaporate.
There is *something* to be said for coating all the components in wood
hardener before assembly, including the individual tongues and
grooves, although the colour would need to be established beforehand.
It effectively applies a thin film of hard plastic.

I'm not familiar with the stuff. Is it significantly better bet than wood
primer for this purpose?

Al

" wrote in news:8000b39e-4a7d-47a6-bb10-
:


The braces should also be let slightly into the rails.

Cutting those inset joints looks a bit fiddly for a carpentry novice like
me. I bought some 'timber joining plates' (with spickes sticking out of one
side, for hammering into the timber, accross a join. Probably not as good
as letting inti the rails as you suggested.

How wide are these garage doors?

Each door is 4ft wide, and 7ft tall.

Ledged and braced may tend to drop/lack rigidity - framed ledges and
braced is much better, although quite a bit more work.

More weight, too. I was hoping the thickness of the T&G boards will obviate
the need for jambs.

Al

"Cash" wrote in
:

Give the frame a chance and give it five coats of good quality paint
(rather than 'tinted preservative) [1] - and also keep the frame about
20mm up off the floor to prevent the end grain (probably untreated
anyway) from 'sucking up' rain water off the floor.

I did think of that (raising it off the floor). I probably should have
painted the frame on all faces before fixing to the wall too, but I didn't.

[1] Prepare the timber properly and give it the following:

1 - Coat of aluminium base primer (or similar)
2 - Coats of oil based undercoat
2 - coats of oil based gloss

I was thinking of leaving the door and frame unpainted for the whole of
this summer, and then painting it all, in September, after it has become
well dried out and seasoned. Would you condone that idea? It's West-facing,
by the way.

Al

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:08:21 +0000, Al 1953 wrote:
Now I understand bracing better, I'm thinking maybe have the braces
parallel, like this:

http://shedbuilder.info/How-To-Build-A-Shed-Door.html

No jambs/verticals in that design either.

Hmm, aren't those diagonal braces the wrong way round? Shouldn't they be
flipped so that they transfer load along the brace's length to the hinge
side of the door?

Agree with the 'riffle' though (is that a genuine term?) - it'll reduce
the tendency for the diagonal brace to try and slide against the
horizontals.

Regarding vertical braces, I'm not sure they do add much to the strength.
They'll reduce the tendency to warp or for the door to twist, but you can
probably do without them if you want given that you've got an inch of
material already.

As for hinges, hard to tell how big is "big enough", although I think I'd
use three per door. Like you say, mountings are more important. I think
when I come to rebuild my garage doors I'll put metal plates on the
reverse side of the doors and bolt the hinges right through the doors and
the plates behind (ditto with the jambs).

cheers

Jules

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:04:37 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

http://shedbuilder.info/How-To-Build-A-Shed-Door.html

No jambs/verticals in that design either.

But it's a small, light, shed door.

Hmm, aren't those diagonal braces the wrong way round? Shouldn't they be
flipped so that they transfer load along the brace's length to the hinge
side of the door?

I thought that as well, or fit the hinges to left as we see it not
the right.


--
Cheers
Dave.

Jules Richardson wrote in
:

Hmm, aren't those diagonal braces the wrong way round?

Yes! I didn't notice that...

Regarding vertical braces, I'm not sure they do add much to the
strength. They'll reduce the tendency to warp or for the door to
twist, but you can probably do without them if you want given that
you've got an inch of material already.

Glad to hear someone support this notion. If the finished door seems too
twisty or flimsy, I can add vertical jambs

As for hinges, hard to tell how big is "big enough", although I think
I'd use three per door. Like you say, mountings are more important. I
think when I come to rebuild my garage doors I'll put metal plates on
the reverse side of the doors and bolt the hinges right through the
doors and the plates behind (ditto with the jambs).

Luckily, I had a real life pair of wooden garage doors (on a gargae I
have access to) to look at for guidance. They are obviously quite old,
maybe 20 years, and are still working fine, and still fit well. They have
two hinges per door, but they are hefty items, with square holes to take
coach bolts.

Two hinges per door will hopefully be adequate, because I'm now planning
on only two horizontals per door, with one diagonal brace per door (after
reading some of the comments here). Each hinge will be bolted through a
horizontal, of course.

Here's what I bought (though I got mine from Jewsons at a lower price):
http://tinyurl.com/yfakzzl

One thing that I'm pondering about is the "axle housings" for want of a
better term. They screw onto the outside face of the door frame, using 6
crews. That is obviously the Achilles heel, security-wise, unless the
screws are made unscrewable somehow, after they are in place. To achieve
this, I'm thinking filling the slots with epoxy or even butchering the
slots with a drill to render the slots useless. Anyone got other methods
to share?

Al

The weak point rot-wise will probably be the grooves between the
boards on the lower part of the doors. Water finds its way into the
t&g joints where it can't easily evaporate.
There is *something* to be said for coating all the components in wood
hardener before assembly, including the individual tongues and
grooves, although the colour would need to be established beforehand.
It effectively applies a thin film of hard plastic.

I'm not familiar with the stuff. Is it significantly better bet than wood
primer for this purpose?

It's designed to soak into old, porous timber and effectively convert
the fibres to plastic. On new wood it's more likely to sit on the
surface, but my limited tests suggest it beats the hell out of anything
else as a sealer. I've always painted over it so I can't comment on how
it would respond to UV exposure in a transparent finish.

One thing that I'm pondering about ...

If you're really bothered about that, once everything is mounted up
and the doors fit etc, drill an extra hole through the hinge-pin plate
and put a coach bolt right through to the inside of the building.

It's a bit overkill for ledged and braced timber doors anyway (unless
they're massively constructed), as they don't have the structure to
hold back even a moderately serious go at a forced entry.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in
ll.co.uk:

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:32:36 +0000 (UTC), Al 1953 wrote:

Glad to hear someone support this notion. If the finished door seems
too twisty or flimsy, I can add vertical jambs

But without any real connection to the horizontals (there must be a
real name for them, stiles?). On a normal door they would be tightly
morticed together and the brace(s) notched in. The cladding is then
just that decorative cladding, things do change with 3/4" T&G
"cladding" but I don't know in what way.

One thing that I'm pondering about is the "axle housings" for want of
a better term.

Hinge pins.

They screw onto the outside face of the door frame, using 6 crews.

Why faff about undoing the crews when you can just lift the door off,
maybe?

I was thinking of having the hinge pins pointing in opposite directions,
but actually my door closes into the fram and the top frame member is
steel, so I'll keep them the same way. Yes, the lowlife could attack with
grinder, but that would make noise which would be heard.

But yes, I am probably verging on overkill as there are other security
measures in place around the property.

Al

" wrote in news:5125136b-7182-4d97-b233-
:


One thing that I'm pondering about ...

If you're really bothered about that, once everything is mounted up
and the doors fit etc, drill an extra hole through the hinge-pin plate
and put a coach bolt right through to the inside of the building.

It's a bit overkill for ledged and braced timber doors anyway (unless
they're massively constructed), as they don't have the structure to
hold back even a moderately serious go at a forced entry.

Good comments thanks. I like your bolt idea though so I'll probably do
that..

Al

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in
ll.co.uk:

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:35:01 +0000 (UTC), Al 1953 wrote:

I purchased tongue & grooved redwood floorboarding (22mm x 135mm) to
be exact.

Yipes, I hope you've thought about the weight and the hinges to
support them...

For the bracing' I'm thinking three equally-spaced horizontals with
diagonals in-between. I am planning to have no vertical bracing at
the edges, as the tongu+grooved timber is nearly an inch thick, and
seems very rigid,

My gut feeling is that won't work, or not work as well as diagonal
across the corners of a box. I can't pin down why I feel it won't
work, other than "no triangle". I could be wrong, the fact that you
have 3/4" boards might be enough but they will slide past each other.

I can always add vertcals later.

The horizontals really need to be mortised into the verticals and
possibly the diagonal braces jointed in as well.

thinking I should glue the grooves before tapping in the tongues, I
assum this is correct?

I wouldn't the boards will want move and if glued they can't. I
wouldn't be surprised to see 1/4" variation across the width of each
of those boards between the "wet" and "dry" states of the timber.

To fix the bracing, will zink plated wood screws will do,

If you can get good quality zinc plated yes but screws vary immensely
in the quality of the plating and in the steel. Brass or stainless
might be a better choice. I don't use anything but brass, stainless
or hot dipped clouts outside up here. Steel screws or nails just
doen't last.


What about galvanised nails, for nailing the boards (galvanised ovals if
there is such a thing)?

Al

On 01/04/2010 10:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:


But without any real connection to the horizontals (there must be a
real name for them, stiles?).

On the basis that we refer to ledge & brace doors, maybe they are ledges?

--
Rod

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:32:36 +0000 (UTC), Al 1953 wrote:

Glad to hear someone support this notion. If the finished door seems too
twisty or flimsy, I can add vertical jambs

But without any real connection to the horizontals (there must be a
real name for them, stiles?). On a normal door they would be tightly
morticed together and the brace(s) notched in. The cladding is then
just that decorative cladding, things do change with 3/4" T&G
"cladding" but I don't know in what way.

One thing that I'm pondering about is the "axle housings" for want of a
better term.

Hinge pins.

They screw onto the outside face of the door frame, using 6 crews.

Why faff about undoing the crews when you can just lift the door off,
maybe? If it closes fully into the frame a scroat wouldn't be able to
just lift it. If you stop the screws being removed they'll just angle
grind the hinge bands through.

--
Cheers
Dave.

wrote in message
...

One thing that I'm pondering about ...

If you're really bothered about that, once everything is mounted up
and the doors fit etc, drill an extra hole through the hinge-pin plate
and put a coach bolt right through to the inside of the building.

It's a bit overkill for ledged and braced timber doors anyway (unless
they're massively constructed), as they don't have the structure to
hold back even a moderately serious go at a forced entry.

I would use coach bolts on any hinge that you can get to the screws even if
the door is flimsy.
Breaking a door makes a noise, unscrewing hinges doesn't.
It the reason why fences are more of a deterrent than brick walls, you can
climb a wall in silence, you cant do that with a fence.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...


Why faff about undoing the crews when you can just lift the door off,
maybe? If it closes fully into the frame a scroat wouldn't be able to
just lift it. If you stop the screws being removed they'll just angle
grind the hinge bands through.

Fit hinge bolts.
They stop the door coming out of the frame.
Some hinges have interlocking pegs that do a similar job and should be used
anywhere the pin is exposed.

PS.... Here is an interesting diagram I found:

http://tinyurl.com/yjoyxk6

Despite this nice-looking sketch, I think I'm committed to just two braces
now, but then I'm probably using thicker boards.

Al

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 09:46:16 +0000 (UTC), Al 1953 wrote:

To fix the bracing, will zink plated wood screws will do,

If you can get good quality zinc plated yes but screws vary immensely
in the quality of the plating and in the steel. Brass or stainless
might be a better choice. I don't use anything but brass, stainless
or hot dipped clouts outside up here. Steel screws or nails just
doen't last.

What about galvanised nails, for nailing the boards (galvanised ovals if
there is such a thing)?

Al

Not elliptical nails, but I used these on my shed to fasten the cladding on
(used st. st. screws, then about an extra 50% nails so that whole sheets
couldn't be removed):

http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/190061

They're Stainless Steel Extra Grip Nails; these are 40mm but I used 65mm:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/190063

For your sort of door, you could use nails long enough to go right through
and be bent over. I did that with a gate - but mainly because the screws
that I had were too long and not just for security.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:32:36 +0000, Al 1953 wrote:

Jules Richardson wrote in
:

Hmm, aren't those diagonal braces the wrong way round?

Yes! I didn't notice that...

I'm glad I wasn't going mad :-)

Regarding vertical braces, I'm not sure they do add much to the
strength. They'll reduce the tendency to warp or for the door to twist,
but you can probably do without them if you want given that you've got
an inch of material already.

Glad to hear someone support this notion. If the finished door seems too
twisty or flimsy, I can add vertical jambs

I wonder if having verticals is common in part just because it was easier
for door makers to build a standard frame which could then accept both
horizontal and vertical cladding?

As for hinges, hard to tell how big is "big enough", although I think
I'd use three per door. Like you say, mountings are more important. I
think when I come to rebuild my garage doors I'll put metal plates on
the reverse side of the doors and bolt the hinges right through the
doors and the plates behind (ditto with the jambs).

Luckily, I had a real life pair of wooden garage doors (on a gargae I
have access to) to look at for guidance. They are obviously quite old,
maybe 20 years, and are still working fine, and still fit well. They
have two hinges per door, but they are hefty items, with square holes to
take coach bolts.

I'm really not sure how old ours are - no older than 60 years, anyway.
They're sagging quite a bit, anyway. If yours are an inch thick then
there must be quite a bit of weight to them (ours are about that, too).

Sounds like those two hinges you saw are a bit more 'meaty' than the
three on each of our doors, though. Our current ones are just screwed,
and there are signs of wear in both the pins and screw holes.

Here's what I bought (though I got mine from Jewsons at a lower price):
http://tinyurl.com/yfakzzl

Having seen those, my gut feeling is you'll be OK with two - if you had a
long gate hanging from those then the force trying to pull them apart
must be considerable; hanging a taller-but-narrower door from them
shouldn't tax them too much. Nice hinges, too, although personally I'd go
for black ones :-)

One thing that I'm pondering about is the "axle housings" for want of a
better term. They screw onto the outside face of the door frame, using 6
crews. That is obviously the Achilles heel, security-wise, unless the
screws are made unscrewable somehow, after they are in place. To achieve
this, I'm thinking filling the slots with epoxy or even butchering the
slots with a drill to render the slots useless. Anyone got other methods
to share?

The way I always figure it, it's a wooden structure - if someone wants
in, they can bash or cut their way in pretty easily anyway. I think I'd
just risk it. Like others said, put a final bolt through if you want.

Don't use opposing hinges - with only two, you'll have the entire weight
of the door hanging from one hinge. If you want to stop someone lifting
the door off, bolt some sort of plate just above the hinge pin that can
only be removed from the inside.

cheers

Jules

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 09:46:16 +0000, Al 1953 wrote:
To fix the bracing, will zink plated wood screws will do,

If you can get good quality zinc plated yes but screws vary immensely
in the quality of the plating and in the steel. Brass or stainless
might be a better choice. I don't use anything but brass, stainless or
hot dipped clouts outside up here. Steel screws or nails just doen't
last.

What about galvanised nails, for nailing the boards (galvanised ovals if
there is such a thing)?

Was any of the wood pressure-treated? I'm not sure that you can use
galvanised with that (I always thought they were OK, but then saw a
warning on a box the other day that they weren't suitable for PT lumber).

With plain old fixings, the stuff they use for the treating reacts with
the metal and they corrode quickly.

I'm not sure if the same is true of brush-on preservatives, or if it only
applies to pressure-treating.

cheers

Jules