An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

Cheers!

Matt

larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

You'd have to ask them. I daresay some will say,'not with a barge pole'
but others won't give a monkeys. For sure they will be orders of
magnitude cheaper than if you get an asbestos-removal outfit round to
it, wearing space suits etc.

I have no personal expertise about absestos dangers, but have you read
the adjacent thread about a corrugated asbestos roof? Might help.

David

larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

Cheers!

Matt
Go for the duckin' and divin' handyman type otherwise you run the risk
of getting the jobsworth full blown elfin safety types.

You are correct there are minimal issues with asbestos cement but many
contractors will try and take you for a ride.

Good Luck

Bob

On 4 Mar, 12:40, larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. *As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? *For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

Cheers!

Matt

It's difficult.

If you employ someone, legally it should be someone licensed to handle/
transport asbestos.

I disposed of my own asbestos garage roof, and at that time (5 years
ago) Cambridgeshire would accept up to 2 sheets per householder.

I phoned for advice, and the council bod told me just to go round each
site and get rid of 2 sheets at each.

No one was on patrol at the first site I visited, so it all went in
the asbestos bin there.

I've heard of people burying it in their own gardens, as some council
sites won't look at it.

If you *do* go with someone unregulated, think about what they're
doing with it - they could well be flytipping. You're also committing
an offence by using an unregulated contractor.

Some councils have deals with asbestos disposal sites, where they
subsidise the price of householders disposing of asbestos - phone your
local council and ask.

White asbestos cement sheets aren't particularly hazardous (but are
astonishingly heavy), but dumping the problem on someone else via some
fly(tipping)-by-night cowboy ain't very nice.

On 4 Mar, 12:40, larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. *As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? *For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

Cheers!

Matt

Some of the more enlightened councils will collect if you can have it
down and stacked ready for them.

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 05:27:26 -0800 (PST), " wrote:

On 4 Mar, 12:40, larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. *As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? *For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

Cheers!

Matt

It's difficult.

If you employ someone, legally it should be someone licensed to handle/
transport asbestos.

I disposed of my own asbestos garage roof, and at that time (5 years
ago) Cambridgeshire would accept up to 2 sheets per householder.

I phoned for advice, and the council bod told me just to go round each
site and get rid of 2 sheets at each.

No one was on patrol at the first site I visited, so it all went in
the asbestos bin there.

I always find that lunchtime is a good time to go to the dump....

On Mar 4, 12:40*pm, larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. *As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.


In Cambridge, if you dismatle it yourself the council will supply bags
(numbered and annotated with your car registration umber) for you to
put them in. You then take them to the dump and they check the
numbers. This service is free.

In order to get the bags you have to answer a barrage of questions.
They want to know if any professional has been involved in the
demolition and who they were. You only get the bags if you do the job
yourself. if you hire someone to do it or to help you, they have to
pay the commercial cost of disposal.

Robert

"larkim" wrote in message
...
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

As already stated, employing someone opens a whole can of expensive worms.

The differing rules about asbestos disposal are ridiculous.
Newbury Council charged £20 an item.
Basingstoke Council took it for free.
Which council do you think encouraged dumping and fly tipping?

If asbestos is really such a big problem then we should be actively
encouraged to 'hand in' all our asbestos for disposal.

Perhaps it may be time to call in a few favours and get some friends to join
you in non-commercial DIY.

Cheers

Dave R

"larkim" wrote in message
...
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? For
example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

Cheers!

Matt

If you are laying a concrete base for a new garage, then put the
sheets under the hard core before compacting, and wet them well, then
lay the concrete as per normal. This way there is no hazard as the
dust is controlled, and the asbestos is entombed in concrete so safe
as houses. As it's not left your site, and been reused, it's not
classed as waste anyway G

AWEM

Andrew Mawson wrote:
"larkim" wrote in message
...
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? For
example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

Cheers!

Matt

If you are laying a concrete base for a new garage, then put the
sheets under the hard core before compacting, and wet them well, then
lay the concrete as per normal. This way there is no hazard as the
dust is controlled, and the asbestos is entombed in concrete so safe
as houses. As it's not left your site, and been reused, it's not
classed as waste anyway G

AWEM

Think of the poor sod who buys your house and decdes to demolish the
garage and base. I work in a school where this sort of thinf was done
by reputable contractors years ago. When we decided to dig up the
raised bed the asbestos was burried in it cost 2 days delay and hundreds
of pounds to rectify the problem. you could be faced with a large bill
years in the future


Malcolm

larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

This handyman would steer well clear. I'm not bothered by the alledged
danger of the asbestos, but getting rid of it could turn into a nightmare.
You would need a hazardous waste transfer licence for a start.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
...

If you are laying a concrete base for a new garage, then put the
sheets under the hard core before compacting, and wet them well, then
lay the concrete as per normal. This way there is no hazard as the
dust is controlled, and the asbestos is entombed in concrete so safe
as houses. As it's not left your site, and been reused, it's not
classed as waste anyway G

AWEM

That is appalling advice. Yes, it may be entombed within concrete when
built. But once someone starts digging that up in the future, asbestos
fibres will be everywhere. Not to mention during compacting.

Wetting asbestos should take place before even trying to remove it.

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...
Andrew Mawson wrote:
"larkim" wrote in message

...
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from
my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can
be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? For
example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

Cheers!

Matt

If you are laying a concrete base for a new garage, then put the
sheets under the hard core before compacting, and wet them well,
then
lay the concrete as per normal. This way there is no hazard as the
dust is controlled, and the asbestos is entombed in concrete so
safe
as houses. As it's not left your site, and been reused, it's not
classed as waste anyway G

AWEM

Think of the poor sod who buys your house and decdes to demolish the
garage and base. I work in a school where this sort of thinf was
done
by reputable contractors years ago. When we decided to dig up the
raised bed the asbestos was burried in it cost 2 days delay and
hundreds
of pounds to rectify the problem. you could be faced with a large
bill
years in the future


Malcolm

I would hazard a guess that there are very few sites where buildings
have been since the early 1900's that don't have some asbestos cement
waste in the ground. It certainly was very common not too long ago to
find crushed corrugated asbestos within a load of hardcore. The white
asbestos threat in the percentages in reinforced cement is not very
high and said to be less of a threat to human health than the fine
fibres of rockwool insulation.

AWEM

"larkim" wrote in message
...
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation or
mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe for
crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing just
how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And what is more
amazing is that the preconception that it's years of exposure that can cause
asbestosis, is simply not true. There are several cases of employees getting
the disease after just months.

"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
...


I would hazard a guess that there are very few sites where buildings
have been since the early 1900's that don't have some asbestos cement
waste in the ground.

Yes - ignorance was bliss. But we know a lot better now.

It certainly was very common not too long ago to
find crushed corrugated asbestos within a load of hardcore. The white
asbestos threat in the percentages in reinforced cement is not very
high and said to be less of a threat to human health than the fine
fibres of rockwool insulation.

Said by whom. Can you back that up? Once you crush asbestos, the fibres are
everywhere. And unlike rockwool, you can't see the majority of asbestos
fibres.

On Mar 4, 7:09*pm, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
larkim wrote:

An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. *As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? *For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

This handyman would steer well clear. *I'm not bothered by the alledged
danger of the asbestos, but getting rid of it could turn into a nightmare..
You would need a hazardous waste transfer licence for a start.

Presumably not if the customer disposes of it


NT

On Mar 4, 7:09*pm, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. *As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? *For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

This handyman would steer well clear. *I'm not bothered by the alledged
danger of the asbestos, but getting rid of it could turn into a nightmare..
You would need a hazardous waste transfer licence for a start.

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Dave

Thanks - I sort of hoped you'd come around this thread, a useful
benchmark for the "sort of handyman" that I'd like to be able to
employ!

Unfortunately, it seems to me there are only two options:-
- DIY
- men in space suits!

Time to raid the piggy bank!

Matt

wrote in message ...
On 4 Mar,
"John Whitworth" wrote:

Said by whom. Can you back that up? Once you crush asbestos, the fibres
are
everywhere. And unlike rockwool, you can't see the majority of asbestos
fibres.

Throuble with asbestos fibres is that they break down into smaller and
smaller fibres, unlike rockwool. These smaller fibres are small enough to
puncture smaller parts of cells and start them reproducing abnormally.

--
See chapter 13 of this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scared-Death...7740274&sr=8-1

for, among other things, the difference between white and blue, and the way
the scare has been blown up out of all proportion

"John Whitworth" wrote in message
...


"larkim" wrote in message
...
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation or
mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe for
crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing just
how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And what is
more amazing is that the preconception that it's years of exposure that
can cause asbestosis, is simply not true. There are several cases of
employees getting the disease after just months.

Don't know that one, but try this for perhaps a more balanced view

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scared-Death...7740274&sr=8-1

Not to say that the tobacco and asbestos (and for that matter oil and
nuclear) industries were always angels, but don't forget that those who seek
to occupy the high moral ground also tend to have an agenda. Evidence, not
anecdote.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

This handyman would steer well clear. I'm not bothered by the alledged
danger of the asbestos, but getting rid of it could turn into a nightmare.
You would need a hazardous waste transfer licence for a start.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Asbestos needs very special considerations for handling and disposal,eg a
builder getting a labourer to hide it at the bottom of a skip.

Adam

"newshound" wrote in message
...


"John Whitworth" wrote in message
...


"larkim" wrote in message
...
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation or
mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe for
crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing
just how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And what
is more amazing is that the preconception that it's years of exposure
that can cause asbestosis, is simply not true. There are several cases of
employees getting the disease after just months.

Don't know that one, but try this for perhaps a more balanced view

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scared-Death...7740274&sr=8-1

Not to say that the tobacco and asbestos (and for that matter oil and
nuclear) industries were always angels, but don't forget that those who
seek to occupy the high moral ground also tend to have an agenda.
Evidence, not anecdote.

Try speaking to people with lung disorders who worked with asbestos.

Magic Mineral to Killer Dust covers the largest asbestos manufacturer in the
UK. What's unique about it, is that is contains inside information (which is
now in the public domain), showing Turner and Newalls for exactly what they
were. Cover up merchants who screwed their staff, didn't give a sh1t about
their health, and manipulated people into thinking that asbestos was great.
They did a good job, as plenty of people on here still seem to think the
stuff is OK.

If you're wondering where all this information came from, it was after Chase
Manhattan Bank sued the balls off of Turner & Newalls, to pay for the
removal of the stuff from one of their office blocks.

I'm not sure how you know that your book could perhaps be more balanced -
agendas exist on both sides. From the table of contents (One Fibre Can
Kill), I'm not really sure it's attacking from the right angle. Of course
one fibre cannot kill. You will have breathed that in probably within your
first hour out of the womb. Asbestos is dangerous. Sure, removing some stuff
from home isn't likely to cause cancer etc, but on the whole, it is bad
stuff.

Why would Europe be a better place if Chrysotile was still available today?

JW

On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:17:44 -0000, "John Whitworth"
wrote:

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart.

It is, from what has been said, asbestos cement, not white asbestos.
The risk is negligible if very simple precautions are taken.

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:17:44 -0000, "John Whitworth"
wrote:

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart.

It is, from what has been said, asbestos cement, not white asbestos.
The risk is negligible if very simple precautions are taken.

Asbestos cement contains varying proportions (though usually around 15%) of
white asbestos.

Agreed the risk is negligible given simple precautions.

JW

On 4 Mar, 18:19, Malcolm wrote:

I work in a school where this sort of thinf was done
by reputable contractors years ago. *When we decided to dig up the
raised bed the asbestos was burried in it cost 2 days delay and hundreds
of pounds to rectify the problem. *

Hundreds? That's just going rate for a bit of digging.

One of my nearby sites has just made a whole large asbestos roof
disappear by feeding it through the on-site crushing plant that was
breaking down bricks for aggregate...

ARWadsworth wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? For
example, would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

This handyman would steer well clear. I'm not bothered by the
alledged danger of the asbestos, but getting rid of it could turn
into a nightmare. You would need a hazardous waste transfer licence
for a start. --
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Asbestos needs very special considerations for handling and
disposal,eg a builder getting a labourer to hide it at the bottom of
a skip.


You are so right. There is almost no problem today with asbestos. There are,
sadly folk, that are suffering from the extensive wrong use of the material
years ago.

I am very pleased with what AbleUK are doing which could reduce the deaths
in India as a result of the way they cut up ships - not the asbestos issue.

We in the UK have a desperate need to dispose of these effing idiots in
local and central government who are employed to depend upon the state. They
are quite possibly intelligent but effing idle!

John Whitworth wrote:


Don't know that one, but try this for perhaps a more balanced view

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scared-Death...7740274&sr=8-1


Not to say that the tobacco and asbestos (and for that matter oil and
nuclear) industries were always angels, but don't forget that those
who seek to occupy the high moral ground also tend to have an agenda.
Evidence, not anecdote.

Try speaking to people with lung disorders who worked with asbestos.

Are you aware of the difference between white and blue asbestos?

On Mar 4, 7:09*pm, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
larkim wrote:
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. *As I understand it this is low grade asbestos which can be
disposed of (usually) at the council tip providing it is double
bagged.

Its not a job I plan to take on myself.

What kind of contractor should I ask to quote for this? *For example,
would a "handyman" consider it, or would they steer clear?

This handyman would steer well clear. *I'm not bothered by the alledged
danger of the asbestos, but getting rid of it could turn into a nightmare..
You would need a hazardous waste transfer licence for a start.


Not here in Cambridge. As I said above, the City Council issue you
with the plastic bags which are specific to your own car. You are
allowed to drive the asbestos (in those bags) to the dump in that
specified car. I guess this effectively is a "one off" hazardous
waste licence. it is free. this only applies if you DIY it.

On 5 Mar, 09:35, Gib Bogle wrote:

Are you aware of the difference between white and blue asbestos?

Yes, white killed far more people.


The hazards of blue asbestos, and their hazards beyond those of white
asbestos, were known to the Romans, possibly even the Greeks (Slaves
lasted longer in some mines than in others). So blue asbestos has had
a bad health reputation for a _long_ time, and workers steered clear
of it.

What killed the most people was white asbestos. Specifically as heat
insulation, where it was used in the lightest and fluffiest possible
form. As it was "only white asbestos", its handling in the first half
of the 20th century was blase. Almost no protection was taken against
dust or fibres, either to protect those working with it, to clean up
residues left afterwards, or even to shut the windows on a plant that
was spinning it (Turner & Newall's more infamous working practice).
The stuff went _everywhere_, and it was treated that way in
manufacturing into the '60s, in on-site use into the '70s, and in the
scrap trade (railway carriages in particular) well into the '90s.

Now we've gone the other way. Our regulations and practices lump
bunded boards in with loose fibre insulation and we've become
paranoid.

On Mar 4, 7:17*pm, "John Whitworth"
wrote:
"larkim" wrote in message

...

An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. *As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation or
mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe for
crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing just
how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And what is more
amazing is that the preconception that it's years of exposure that can cause
asbestosis, is simply not true. There are several cases of employees getting
the disease after just months.

As with any statistical effect, there will always be outliers in the
data.

MBQ

Andy Dingley
wibbled on Friday 05 March 2010 10:46

On 5 Mar, 09:35, Gib Bogle wrote:

Are you aware of the difference between white and blue asbestos?

Yes, white killed far more people.


The hazards of blue asbestos, and their hazards beyond those of white
asbestos, were known to the Romans, possibly even the Greeks (Slaves
lasted longer in some mines than in others). So blue asbestos has had
a bad health reputation for a _long_ time, and workers steered clear
of it.

What killed the most people was white asbestos. Specifically as heat
insulation, where it was used in the lightest and fluffiest possible
form. As it was "only white asbestos", its handling in the first half
of the 20th century was blase. Almost no protection was taken against
dust or fibres, either to protect those working with it, to clean up
residues left afterwards, or even to shut the windows on a plant that
was spinning it (Turner & Newall's more infamous working practice).
The stuff went _everywhere_, and it was treated that way in
manufacturing into the '60s, in on-site use into the '70s, and in the
scrap trade (railway carriages in particular) well into the '90s.

Now we've gone the other way. Our regulations and practices lump
bunded boards in with loose fibre insulation and we've become
paranoid.

Horrific...

http://asbestoshub.com/2009/03/26/uk...r-newall-wall-
of-shame/

Director Robert H Turner wrote in 1937: "All asbestos fibre dust is a danger
to lungs.

If we can produce evidence from this country that the industry is not
responsible for any asbestosis claims, we may be able to avoid tiresome
regulations and the introduction of dangerous occupational talk."

Wish there was a better citation source for that, but if it's true, and
there's a hell, that bloke deserves to be burning in it right next to Hitler
and Stalin.


--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On 5 Mar, 13:00, Tim Watts wrote:
Andy Dingley
* wibbled on Friday 05 March 2010 10:46





On 5 Mar, 09:35, Gib Bogle wrote:

Are you aware of the difference between white and blue asbestos?

Yes, white killed far more people.

The hazards of blue asbestos, and their hazards beyond those of white
asbestos, were known to the Romans, possibly even the Greeks (Slaves
lasted longer in some mines than in others). So blue asbestos has had
a bad health reputation for a _long_ time, and workers steered clear
of it.

What killed the most people was white asbestos. Specifically as heat
insulation, where it was used in the lightest and fluffiest possible
form. As it was "only white asbestos", its handling in the first half
of the 20th century was blase. Almost no protection was taken against
dust or fibres, either to protect those working with it, to clean up
residues left afterwards, or even to shut the windows on a plant that
was spinning it (Turner & Newall's more infamous working practice).
The stuff went _everywhere_, and it was treated that way in
manufacturing into the '60s, in on-site use into the '70s, and in the
scrap trade (railway carriages in particular) well into the '90s.

Now we've gone the other way. Our regulations and practices lump
bunded boards in with loose fibre insulation and we've become
paranoid.

Horrific...

http://asbestoshub.com/2009/03/26/uk...s-turner-newal...
of-shame/

Director Robert H Turner wrote in 1937: "All asbestos fibre dust is a danger
to lungs.

If we can produce evidence from this country that the industry is not
responsible for any asbestosis claims, we may be able to avoid tiresome
regulations and the introduction of dangerous occupational talk."

Wish there was a better citation source for that, but if it's true, and
there's a hell, that bloke deserves to be burning in it right next to Hitler
and Stalin.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.




If there is a Hell, do they use asbestos to control the spread of fire?

"John Whitworth" wrote in message
...


"newshound" wrote in message
...


"John Whitworth" wrote in message
...


"larkim" wrote in message
...
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation or
mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe for
crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing
just how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And what
is more amazing is that the preconception that it's years of exposure
that can cause asbestosis, is simply not true. There are several cases
of employees getting the disease after just months.

Don't know that one, but try this for perhaps a more balanced view

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scared-Death...7740274&sr=8-1

Not to say that the tobacco and asbestos (and for that matter oil and
nuclear) industries were always angels, but don't forget that those who
seek to occupy the high moral ground also tend to have an agenda.
Evidence, not anecdote.

Try speaking to people with lung disorders who worked with asbestos.

Magic Mineral to Killer Dust covers the largest asbestos manufacturer in
the UK. What's unique about it, is that is contains inside information
(which is now in the public domain), showing Turner and Newalls for
exactly what they were. Cover up merchants who screwed their staff, didn't
give a sh1t about their health, and manipulated people into thinking that
asbestos was great. They did a good job, as plenty of people on here still
seem to think the stuff is OK.

If you're wondering where all this information came from, it was after
Chase Manhattan Bank sued the balls off of Turner & Newalls, to pay for
the removal of the stuff from one of their office blocks.

I'm not sure how you know that your book could perhaps be more balanced -
agendas exist on both sides. From the table of contents (One Fibre Can
Kill), I'm not really sure it's attacking from the right angle. Of course
one fibre cannot kill. You will have breathed that in probably within your
first hour out of the womb. Asbestos is dangerous. Sure, removing some
stuff from home isn't likely to cause cancer etc, but on the whole, it is
bad stuff.

Why would Europe be a better place if Chrysotile was still available
today?

JW

And the connection with asbestos cement products is?

"Mr Fuxit" wrote in message
...

If there is a Hell, do they use asbestos to control the spread of fire?

No, because there are better fire-retarding materials! ;-)

"newshound" wrote in message
...


"John Whitworth" wrote in message
...


"newshound" wrote in message
...


"John Whitworth" wrote in message
...


"larkim" wrote in message
...
An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation
or mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe
for crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing
just how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And
what is more amazing is that the preconception that it's years of
exposure that can cause asbestosis, is simply not true. There are
several cases of employees getting the disease after just months.

Don't know that one, but try this for perhaps a more balanced view

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scared-Death...7740274&sr=8-1

Not to say that the tobacco and asbestos (and for that matter oil and
nuclear) industries were always angels, but don't forget that those who
seek to occupy the high moral ground also tend to have an agenda.
Evidence, not anecdote.

Try speaking to people with lung disorders who worked with asbestos.

Magic Mineral to Killer Dust covers the largest asbestos manufacturer in
the UK. What's unique about it, is that is contains inside information
(which is now in the public domain), showing Turner and Newalls for
exactly what they were. Cover up merchants who screwed their staff,
didn't give a sh1t about their health, and manipulated people into
thinking that asbestos was great. They did a good job, as plenty of
people on here still seem to think the stuff is OK.

If you're wondering where all this information came from, it was after
Chase Manhattan Bank sued the balls off of Turner & Newalls, to pay for
the removal of the stuff from one of their office blocks.

I'm not sure how you know that your book could perhaps be more balanced -
agendas exist on both sides. From the table of contents (One Fibre Can
Kill), I'm not really sure it's attacking from the right angle. Of course
one fibre cannot kill. You will have breathed that in probably within
your first hour out of the womb. Asbestos is dangerous. Sure, removing
some stuff from home isn't likely to cause cancer etc, but on the whole,
it is bad stuff.

Why would Europe be a better place if Chrysotile was still available
today?

JW

And the connection with asbestos cement products is?

Asbestos cement products contain chrysotile asbestos.

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 4, 7:17 pm, "John Whitworth"
wrote:
"larkim" wrote in message

...

An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation or
mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe for
crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing
just
how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And what is
more
amazing is that the preconception that it's years of exposure that can
cause
asbestosis, is simply not true. There are several cases of employees
getting
the disease after just months.

As with any statistical effect, there will always be outliers in the
data.

MBQ

Of course. But when it's people's lives, blips of data are a little more
worrying.

On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 10:04:20 -0000, "John Whitworth"
wrote:



"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 4, 7:17 pm, "John Whitworth"
wrote:
"larkim" wrote in message

...

An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation or
mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe for
crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing
just
how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And what is
more
amazing is that the preconception that it's years of exposure that can
cause
asbestosis, is simply not true. There are several cases of employees
getting
the disease after just months.

As with any statistical effect, there will always be outliers in the
data.

MBQ

Of course. But when it's people's lives, blips of data are a little more
worrying.


I wonder if those people who bluster on here that the risk from
asbestos is grossly overstated would like to guess how many
construction workers die each year from asbestos related disease?

To make it clearer, these people worked in the construction industry,
not in manufacturing industry, so they will not have been exposed to
factory processes involving asbestos.

So how many?

"Bruce" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 10:04:20 -0000, "John Whitworth"
wrote:



"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 4, 7:17 pm, "John Whitworth"
wrote:
"larkim" wrote in message

...

An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation
or
mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe for
crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing
just
how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And what is
more
amazing is that the preconception that it's years of exposure that can
cause
asbestosis, is simply not true. There are several cases of employees
getting
the disease after just months.

As with any statistical effect, there will always be outliers in the
data.

MBQ

Of course. But when it's people's lives, blips of data are a little more
worrying.


I wonder if those people who bluster on here that the risk from
asbestos is grossly overstated would like to guess how many
construction workers die each year from asbestos related disease?

To make it clearer, these people worked in the construction industry,
not in manufacturing industry, so they will not have been exposed to
factory processes involving asbestos.

So how many?

I wouldn't be able to guess. But I'd say it would be high. Virtually
everyone in the building industry up until perhaps 20 years ago would have
been handling the stuff, and blissfully sawing and drilling it. There is a
lot of text in "Magic Mineral to Killer Dust", which quotes the directors
and top-brass of Turner & Newalls acknowledging that not everyone who should
have had masks for their job could have them, as otherwise other people
working in the vicinity would also want protection.

JW

"Bruce" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 10:04:20 -0000, "John Whitworth"
wrote:



"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 4, 7:17 pm, "John Whitworth"
wrote:
"larkim" wrote in message

...

An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation
or
mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe for
crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing
just
how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And what is
more
amazing is that the preconception that it's years of exposure that can
cause
asbestosis, is simply not true. There are several cases of employees
getting
the disease after just months.

As with any statistical effect, there will always be outliers in the
data.

MBQ

Of course. But when it's people's lives, blips of data are a little more
worrying.


I wonder if those people who bluster on here that the risk from
asbestos is grossly overstated would like to guess how many
construction workers die each year from asbestos related disease?

To make it clearer, these people worked in the construction industry,
not in manufacturing industry, so they will not have been exposed to
factory processes involving asbestos.

So how many?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarflon...7603676831831/

I wonder if those people who bluster on here that the risk from
asbestos is grossly overstated would like to guess how many
construction workers die each year from asbestos related disease?

About 2100 new cases of mesothelioma are diagnosed in the UK each
year:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2009/e09021.htm

However the HSE does permit working with the less dangerous forms of
asbestos with some basic precautions:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/index.htm#a6

On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:50:30 -0000, "John Whitworth"
wrote:



"Bruce" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 10:04:20 -0000, "John Whitworth"
wrote:



"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 4, 7:17 pm, "John Whitworth"
wrote:
"larkim" wrote in message

...

An aged 1930s asbestos garage needs demolishing and removing from my
garden. As I understand it this is low grade asbestos

I'd not consider it that way. It's still dangerous stuff once you start
taking it apart. Sure, it is far more stable than asbestos insulation
or
mattresses, but years of weathering will likely have made it ripe for
crumbling.

I've been reading Magic Mineral to Killer Dust recently. It's amazing
just
how long ago they knew that asbestos was the killer it is. And what is
more
amazing is that the preconception that it's years of exposure that can
cause
asbestosis, is simply not true. There are several cases of employees
getting
the disease after just months.

As with any statistical effect, there will always be outliers in the
data.

MBQ

Of course. But when it's people's lives, blips of data are a little more
worrying.


I wonder if those people who bluster on here that the risk from
asbestos is grossly overstated would like to guess how many
construction workers die each year from asbestos related disease?

To make it clearer, these people worked in the construction industry,
not in manufacturing industry, so they will not have been exposed to
factory processes involving asbestos.

So how many?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarflon...7603676831831/



Yes, that's the figure I saw.

In the most recent year for which official records are available, 53
construction workers died as a result of workplace accidents. That's
one a week.

Meanwhile, over 1000 construction workers die each year from asbestos
related disease. That's 20 a week.

Perhaps those who seek to trivialise asbestos related disease on this
newsgroup should take a look at those figures and think before posting
their usual nonsense ...